Remarkable well notes from Mr Hawk for this spinner.
Almost to good to be true even but for this price (and I only have seen very well documented and sincere ratings from Mr Hawk) I'm going to play guinea pig and I ordered one.
The spinner is also reasonable well available in Europe but as I am next week in NY I ordered one trough Amazon and have it delivered to my hotel in NY.
A possible sincere testing is not before summer though and I never have used a spinner for anything serious at sea (other than a couple of bonito's and somewhat larger mullets) So this is for me a somewhat hesitant start to use a spinner for something slightly larger ;D ;D ;D ;D
In my opinion -- There are a few "giants" in the fishing reel and tackle engineering world.
Fortunately for us, some of them are on this board. They have names like Sal, Bryan, Alan, Dom, Daron, Keta, Dawn, Erik, -- and many others.
Others would include Carl Newell, Cal Sheets, as well as other pioneers and innovators.
Imagining for a moment, that I would have only two honest & unbiased sources for information about fishing reels -- my choices would be simple -- Alan Tani & Alan Hawk.
Alan T. would be my source for procedures, troubleshooting, experience, servicing, and all things pertaining to angling. Particularly the conventional salt water reels. Alan T. offers us this board that promotes learning, sharing, inclusiveness, wisdom, and an enjoyable experience -- all at no cost to us. Along with the fact that Alan's board in not for sale to either corporations, manufacturers, or advertisers -- we can rest assured of sharing our knowledge under the guidance of a humble man who is ego free.
Alan H. would be my "Consumer Reports" advocate to cut through the manufacturers hype, selling gimmicks, claims, and corporate business practices -- to test reels in real world fishing conditions -- then report back to us with brutally detailed honesty. Fearlessness, coupled with an appreciation for primarily salt-water spinners -- and able to communicate so well, that we can all understand the important details and points of his evaluations -- is a rare combination. Also, like Alan T. -- there are no advertisers or corporations allowed to contribute to his site -- it is a true independent report.
These things are important to me -- and I just wanted to take a moment to acknowledge the contributions these folks have made to our craft.
In this day and age of corporate deception, selling at any cost, less than honest trade practices, selling based on hitting a target market (instead of facts) -- these two gentlemen stand by themselves. They are not for sale -- they help us unselfishly.
Basically, in my opinion, if Alan Tani or Alan Hawk say it is true -- I don't need to spend any time looking anywhere else -- they may not be the last word -- but whatever they say, will be accurate & something we can count on.
And, I am grateful to both of them -- Thank You.
Best,
Fred
http://www.alanhawk.com/reviews/lth10.html
i'm so glad alan hawk does the work that he does. i hate spinning reels..... ;D
http://www.ecofishingstore.com/finnor-lt100-lethal-spinning-reel-p-2601.html
ALL their reel prices are obscenely low & their S&H to US is $45 flat-rate, no matter what you buy
what do you guys think ??? SCAM ??? ...wouldn't want to start GoPro! Part Deux ;D ;D ;D
Quote from: philaroman on April 27, 2014, 11:48:10 PM
http://www.ecofishingstore.com/finnor-lt100-lethal-spinning-reel-p-2601.html
ALL their reel prices are obscenely low & their S&H to US is $45 flat-rate, no matter what you buy
what do you guys think ??? SCAM ??? ...wouldn't want to start GoPro! Part Deux ;D ;D ;D
The site is base in China
Domain Name: ecofishingstore.com
Registry Domain ID: 107563203_DOMAIN_COM-VRSN
Registrar WHOIS Server: whois.west263.com
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Creation Date: 2014-03-24 11:31:08
Expiration Date: 2015-03-24 11:31:08
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Registrar: Chengdu west dimension digital technology Co., LTD
Registrar IANA ID: 1556
Registrar Abuse Contact Email: domain@west263.com
Registrar Abuse Contact Phone: +86.02886263960-245
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Registry Registrant ID: 1556-1086497-d-001
Registrant Name: fotiaoqiang fotiaoqiang
Registrant Organization: fo tiaoqiang
Registrant Street: fujianputianlichengquxinduzhen
Registrant City: fuzhou
Registrant State/Province: Beijing
Registrant Postal Code: 351110
Registrant Country: cn
in other words, SCAM!!! ::) :'( :-[
maybe if they had been around for a few years & only sold reels made in China it could be legitemate, but NO WAY are JDM's & US-made PENN being imported into PRC, to be sold at half-price
Sneaky little hobbitses. Wicked, tricksy, false!
www.srmo.com has them for $100 plus $12 shipping. I've ordered from there a few times with no issues. You can also find them on ebay a that price.
I've had my eye on that reel every since it was announced last fall, and I had very high hopes for it. I was hoping Alan Hawk would test it, but I'll admit I was worried that it wouldn't live up to the potential of its specs. But it seems it achieved and even surpassed what I was hoping for from it. Now I just can't wait to receive my reel.
i saw one on ebay for 118 bucks shipped. That was the cheapest 100 yesterday.
$115aud,includes postage
dinga-fishing_australia(2217)on ebay
Tackledirect.com ..... no messing around, they have always been good to me. The only place I buy new gear.
why gamble to save a few lousy bucks..
Interesting review by Alan Hawk, in particular the quality of the gear train for a cheaper reel, brass main with SS pinion.
'Well, the gear is made of brass indeed, but I don't believe it's forged. Upon close inspection I can see machining marks quite clearly as obvious in the above photo. Maybe they were referring to the method used to produce the supplied bar stock (billet) from which the gear was made, but this doesn't make the gear a forged one since it's definitely made by machine cutting. Regardless, the drive gear of the Lethal 100 is a very resilient part that's made of a strong brass alloy. In terms of mechanical properties machined brass is way above the cast zinc alloy drive gears we usually get at this price point and even much higher. For example Penn's Conquer has a cast zinc drive gear and it sells for $219.'
Michael
It's a great looking reel and I might have to find a few $ to verify. ::)
Its one of those PRC made reel...
and...? PRC can manufactured some high end stuffs too. (Ahem Apple products) This is the case of maybe the company is committed to higher quality reel at a cost to profitability. Just maybe we should applaud the company for doing something right instead of broad brushing it..?
sure, there's good stuff made in China, you just have to wade through some deep poo-poo to find it. if you have to do the wading yourself, it can be very aggravating & expensive, but if a knowledgeable independent reviewer does the close scrutiny & points you to the right stuff, FANTASTIC!!!
I know we're talking spinners here, but I couldn't resist .
Here's an interesting comment from Alan that bears right on one of our favorite subjects here.. Stainless Steel gears..
"The pinion shows no noticeable wear, thanks to the lower coefficient of friction between the brass drive gear and the pinion. Gear trains that are made of two stainless steel gears are not always the best option as many would think. A combination of a stainless pinion and a drive gear properly made of quality brass/bronze alloy would generally last longer and suffer less galling.
This is why the indestructible gearing of the Saltiga comprises a stainless pinion and a C6191 marine bronze drive gear instead of an all stainless steel gearing. The gearing of the Lethal 100 is my top favourite feature in this reel." quote
I'm not sure if AlanHAwks a member here, but either way THANK YOU Alan..your reviews are most excellent!
Erik, it depends very much on the details what is better. As a rule I would tend to say SS all the way but sometimes they are less smooth (unless very carefully cut and honed. It Al depends on the application and execution.
I like both Alan's for what they do. And sometimes, when appropriate, I can do something back and share
As a rule, stainless is good for one thing, and that's resisting corrosion. There are compromises in all alloys, and stainless steels. To gain corrosion resistance, strength is often sacrificed. Few stainless alloys are especially hard, and the ones that are don't have the corrosion resistance. This is especially true in gears. 17-4 ph is pretty common as a gear material in high end materials, but it's quite expensive, and it slightly less corrosion resistant than 304, and a far cry from 316 in saltwater environments. But it's quite hard, and 5/6 times stronger the 304/316.
Stainless can be made smooth as butter, but at a higher machining and finishing cost than other alloys. Case in point, Alan Hawks best spinning reels in the world. 4 of the 5 have a stainless pinion(hardened, so it's a 400 series or a PH stainless), and a main gear that is some form of bronze or brass. Only one has stainless on stainless.
I've noticed this pattern too. This brought me to the question regarding assesment of gear wear in heavily used reels and making the determination on when and what to replace. I've often heard that gear sets should be replaced as complete sets, but I've often noticed wear patterns can be markedly different on different gears within a set, attributed to manufacturing related (type of materials, tollerances, quality, number a config of teeth, etc), and usage patterns (more general use in high speed, higher forces applied in low gear, etc). Replacing entire gear sets is often cost prohibitive (especially on larger more costly reels), and I've noticed that felt roughness in the gear set is not always directly proportional to wear. Small burrs can cause roughness, minor wear in low gear is not as noticable as equal wear on large diameter high speed gears. Also materials wear different, and feel different when worn. It seems that sometimes replacing only 1 of the 3 or 4 components can bring back a reel's felt smoothness. Bronze alloy in combination with SS seems to stay smoother longer, but wears more unevenly for instance, whereas 2 gears made of a harder material require tigger tollerances to achieve the same level of smoothness, wear more slowly, but become rough with actual wear more quickly. Corrosion, and performance under stress (both heat and mechanical) become factors too. When it comes to gear sets not all are created equel. And when servicing used reels judgement calls are often necessary here. Just a few thoughts.
Probably hard to find a better value out there for this type of spinning reel -- a lot of com-parables would be in the $300 - $400 price range. And likely even then -- not as good as this reel, according to Alan H.
Where else could you buy a reel like this that has been taken apart when new out of the box, inspected, analyzed, photographed, understood, lubed with marine grease and syn oil -- used hard in salt for 110 hours -- all the while paying attention to details such as drag smoothness, roughness in the drive train, etc? Then it gets taken completely apart again -- just to see where any wear or damage might have become apparent after real world testing.
Alan H. buys all of the reels he uses -- he doesn't want to have even the hint of any favoritism issues from any manufacturer.
And, it has a 7 stack CF/SS drag disc set standard -- that tests out at over 50 pounds.
I just ordered (2) of these from tackle direct -- for this price I should be able to use one for Salmon fishing (mooching) out of Moss, Half Moon, or Morro Bay, here in California. Then in a couple of years as the price goes up on these -- might sell the unused one to cover the cost of both reels. Should be good for the times when we are not trolling. Might be good for surf or striper fishing also -- who knows?
Anyway, for this type of reel -- it seems like a good value. We'll see.
Best,
Fred
The lists page tells more about how highly he rates the lethal 100. It's #4 on the finest spinning reels in the world list, and the stella SW is NOT even on the list. It's also solidly #1 in the budget offshore reels, well above the saragosa SW.
http://www.alanhawk.com/reviews/lists.html
I still think I personally like the battle better, but this reel appears to have many features that could push it up to the top if it's class. I really enjoy reading his reviews. I must admit it takes me severel read throughs of the severel models to remember what I like/didn't like about a given models design features and components. Sometimes I get a bit lost in the tall grasses. Seems a bit tricky to compare overall design and functionality of the reel as a whole. It is much easier to see the merits of a particular high quality part or sub assembly. This reel definately appears to have some good features, but also has some flaws or weak points. I keep thinking one if these days someone will truly hit the 'nail on the head' and put the best components and design features all into one reel. You would think they could given the modern tools and knowledge available, and the ability to push the price envelope upwards.
Quote from: Tightlines666 on April 29, 2014, 04:44:42 AM
...I keep thinking one if these days someone will truly hit the 'nail on the head' and put the best components and design features all into one reel. You would think they could given the modern tools and knowledge available, and the ability to push the price envelope upwards.
it's called a Saltiga Dogfight & it costs $1300; the older model was on sale for $1000... I won't be getting either one ;D
Well, I couldn't find the $114 free shipping AlanHawk did, Tackle Direct wanted 130+ $15 shipping
so I hit amazon, got $135 free shipping.
Soon I'll have another brother for my Offshores 5500 & 8500.
I love my conventionals too boys, but I pop and jig a lot.... spinners have their place!
oh crap, I just realized there goes an fifth of my savings towards a Torque20... ;D ;D
Quote from: Tightlines666 on April 29, 2014, 04:44:42 AM
I still think I personally like the battle better, but this reel appears to have many features that could push it up to the top if it's class. I really enjoy reading his reviews. I must admit it takes me severel read throughs of the severel models to remember what I like/didn't like about a given models design features and components. Sometimes I get a bit lost in the tall grasses. Seems a bit tricky to compare overall design and functionality of the reel as a whole. It is much easier to see the merits of a particular high quality part or sub assembly. This reel definately appears to have some good features, but also has some flaws or weak points. I keep thinking one if these days someone will truly hit the 'nail on the head' and put the best components and design features all into one reel. You would think they could given the modern tools and knowledge available, and the ability to push the price envelope upwards.
Unfortunately it's more complicated than that as the end users have so many opinions as to what they want in a reel. ;D
What I love about AlanHawk is his brutal honesty about the reels he reviews but let us acknowledge that he would be the first to say that his sample is *one* reel. Just as it is when I do a teardown, to be sure.
What this means to those with a knowledge of statistics is that the "power" of such findings are not ideal with such a small sample.
Consequently, I tend to give more leeway to Shimano, Penn, Okuma, Daiwa that they will sort things out with their outstanding customer service and technical resources. Conversely, I think Alan holds them to a higher standard, as is his prerogative.
Ok, what am I trying to say?
Let's hope all the users of the Lethal 100 find it is everything we all could hope for in a large (30oz) budget spinner from China. Any new reel from offshore also has to demonstrate consistency of manufacturing quality.
Time will tell.
regards
ps. Dang, I sound like a Negative Nancy but he did find some amazing flaws that I think he was willing to overlook as he was "smitten" by the value. :-\
Quote from: johndtuttle on April 29, 2014, 05:51:02 PM
Quote from: Tightlines666 on April 29, 2014, 04:44:42 AM
I still think I personally like the battle better, but this reel appears to have many features that could push it up to the top if it's class. I really enjoy reading his reviews. I must admit it takes me severel read throughs of the severel models to remember what I like/didn't like about a given models design features and components. Sometimes I get a bit lost in the tall grasses. Seems a bit tricky to compare overall design and functionality of the reel as a whole. It is much easier to see the merits of a particular high quality part or sub assembly. This reel definately appears to have some good features, but also has some flaws or weak points. I keep thinking one if these days someone will truly hit the 'nail on the head' and put the best components and design features all into one reel. You would think they could given the modern tools and knowledge available, and the ability to push the price envelope upwards.
Unfortunately it's more complicated than that as the end users have so many opinions as to what they want in a reel. ;D
What I love about AlanHawk is his brutal honesty about the reels he reviews but let us acknowledge that he would be the first to say that his sample is *one* reel. Just as it is when I do a teardown, to be sure.
What this means to those with a knowledge of statistics is that the "power" of such findings are not ideal with such a small sample.
Consequently, I tend to give more leeway to Shimano, Penn, Okuma, Daiwa that they will sort things out with their outstanding customer service and technical resources. Conversely, I think Alan holds them to a higher standard, as is his prerogative.
Ok, what am I trying to say?
Let's hope all the users of the Lethal 100 find it is everything we all could hope for in a large (30oz) budget spinner from China. Any new reel from offshore also has to demonstrate consistency of manufacturing quality.
Time will tell.
regards
ps. Dang, I sound like a Negative Nancy but he did find some amazing flaws that I think he was willing to overlook as he was "smitten" by the value. :-\
I agreed about the potential issue with the drag heating up. However for a $100 that can be used on 60-80 lbs tuna , wahoo, and smaller pelagics consistently at 25-35 lbs of smooth drag, I cannot complain about it. The drive train is much more impressive than my Penn 8500 SSV. If this reel's potential lives up to long term use, I would not be surprised at an aftermarket spool and cap developed that address the heat issue. Again the fact that much better materials were incorporated into this reel is what is the most surprising part. Machined bronze gear and stainless steel pinion, full metal body, smooth drag and all of it in a $100 reel. It should serve notice to Penn, Shimano, and Daiwa that the days of claiming that it is not possible to get quality materials into budget reels are over.
It's more complicated than that :D.
Note, that Fin Nor did not incorporate the Hardened Brass (not "Marine Bronze") main gear and Stainless Pinion into their smaller reels. You have to ask, why? They may be taking a "loss leader" on the Lethal 100 to generate buzz and market share which Fin Nor sorely needs. It is also a very large reel that will have limited use for most spin fisherman, has atrocious line lay that is not adjustable and a number of manufacturing and finishing flaws that are worrisome for their quality control.
On the surface and as much as I respect my internet friend and teacher AlanHawk I think he was a bit enamoured by the value and the finding of the budget holy grail ie decent quality gears. :)
BUT, all I have is unfounded speculation of course. Pure conjecture. I have no idea about the costs of manufacturing reels in China though, in another life I have sourced outdoor gear for manufacture in Asia and know how pennies add up to serious dollars when you make small improvements. So, I have some limited insight.
The best I can say is that what it takes to make a successful product takes *years* of that product being out there so that any issues that may crop up can be resolved. Anodizing quality (worrisome), line lay (worrisome), shoddy molding (worrisome) can all create headaches over time.
Regardless, this is the reel I wish Penn was making with all of these issues cleaned up. The Lethal 100 is a Spinfisher SS through and through. All Penn original design with the addition of a Daiwa Dog, in another good looking package. You could make this reel with this exact same design, a touch better yet materials and quality control, in all sizes...and spin fisherman would beat a path to your door.
best
John,
I agreed wholeheartedly about the smaller Lethal. I bought the 100 to compare to my 8500 SSV. When I am offshore I reached for my conventional first before a spinner, but there are instances where I wished I had a decent spinner, (flylining small baits to skittish fish, ie hanging far back of the chum line 30-40 yards). I just don't want to spend upward of $600 or more for a reel that see limited action. If the Lethal 100 is capable of doing what I am hoping it will, then it will fit nicely. For the smaller size 4500-6500, I still like the spinfishers more at this point. My hope is that even if this is a loss leader that Fin-nor will not cheapened the materials going forward.
For me, value is a combination of price, functionality, and reliability.
When we get the reels, we can try them out and report any positives and negatives.
Ability to get parts, and a company that offers good service -- is also a factor.
We will have to wait to see about a couple of these value issues.
This could be just an experiment by the engineers and marketing folks at Fin Nor -- or it could be an evolutionary step in the right direction for one tackle company -- time will tell.
Most all of us here, can find at least one or two weak points with the best and most expensive reels in the world -- and many more issues with lesser reels. That is why we have the ability to upgrade and improve the products with clever and more durable custom components.
Like Alan Tani has said, we can over-do our hot-rodding jobs to a point where the equipment is not cost effective anymore.
Even if I could afford (I can't) and justify attaching $800 - $1300 on the south end of one of my sticks -- I wouldn't do it.
Appreciate the thoughtful comments by all of the contributors to this thread -- and to Reinaard for starting this thread.
Does anyone remember this short-lived spinning reel from a few years ago? The engineering is way over the top -- ABU discontinued production of what may have been the finest spinner ever.
http://www.alanhawk.com/reviews/suv4.html
Best,
Fred
Quote from: johndtuttle on April 29, 2014, 07:06:22 PM
It's more complicated than that :D.
Note, that Fin Nor did not incorporate the Hardened Brass (not "Marine Bronze") main gear and Stainless Pinion into their smaller reels. You have to ask, why? They may be taking a "loss leader" on the Lethal 100 to generate buzz and market share which Fin Nor sorely needs. It is also a very large reel that will have limited use for most spin fisherman, has atrocious line lay that is not adjustable and a number of manufacturing and finishing flaws that are worrisome for their quality control.
On the surface and as much as I respect my internet friend and teacher AlanHawk I think he was a bit enamoured by the value and the finding of the budget holy grail ie decent quality gears. :)
BUT, all I have is unfounded speculation of course. Pure conjecture. I have no idea about the costs of manufacturing reels in China though, in another life I have sourced outdoor gear for manufacture in Asia and know how pennies add up to serious dollars when you make small improvements. So, I have some limited insight.
The best I can say is that what it takes to make a successful product takes *years* of that product being out there so that any issues that may crop up can be resolved. Anodizing quality (worrisome), line lay (worrisome), shoddy molding (worrisome) can all create headaches over time.
Regardless, this is the reel I wish Penn was making with all of these issues cleaned up. The Lethal 100 is a Spinfisher SS through and through. All Penn original design with the addition of a Daiwa Dog, in another good looking package. You could make this reel with this exact same design, a touch better yet materials and quality control, in all sizes...and spin fisherman would beat a path to your door.
best
I think Penn especially will have to take notice, as this competes strongest against the SSV line and addresses the biggest flaws in their reels: inferior gearing and an unsupported shaft. It's like Zebco said, "We can make the old 750SS and compete at the same price point as the SSVs." I hope the LT100 does so well that Penn is forced to address it.
Good thread.
I also forgot to mention that I like the larger diameter drag washers in the versa-drag style (w/fitted/eared CF washers) and the stack under the spool over the diawa/fin nor types. The penn seems to have a slightly better main gear as well as a superior line lay mech. Also could use a few more bearings in my humble opinion. Time will also tell how effective the simplified 'water resistant' seal system will 'hold water' in extreme surf tye environments. The high end reels (diawa, van stal, and shimano) seem to have solved this issue admirably, and I can't see how these modifications are cost-prohibitive at reels designed at lower price points. But I'm no engineer.
This reel was not meant for dunking into the water. Primarily used as a boat reel so a few splashes should be ok. Even the SSV is not meant to be an underwater reel. As for the drag, I do like the versa drag type more but as AH's wrote in his review, the drag performed well above expectation for a $100 reel. As for the drive train, its nearest competitor are the SSVs and the Baitrunners and both have inferior metallurgy in the drive train. The SSV's gears are cast zinc alloy main and brass pinion. I am just excited because if this works out that meant the saying that a quality reel can't be built within $100-200 range is utter BS.
Quote from: Tightlines666 on April 29, 2014, 09:26:16 PM
Good thread.
I also forgot to mention that I like the larger diameter drag washers in the versa-drag style (w/fitted/eared CF washers) and the stack under the spool over the diawa/fin nor types. The penn seems to have a slightly better main gear as well as a superior line lay mech. Also could use a few more bearings in my humble opinion. Time will also tell how effective the simplified 'water resistant' seal system will 'hold water' in extreme surf tye environments. The high end reels (diawa, van stal, and shimano) seem to have solved this issue admirably, and I can't see how these modifications are cost-prohibitive at reels designed at lower price points. But I'm no engineer.
Alan Hawk sheared the threads on the pinion of the 8500 ssv at only 22 lbs of drag. The fin nor performed flawlessly at more than double that. Not to mention the intentional abuse on his testing, like reeling fish against a trolling boat time and time again, etc.
The lethal 100 has to be taken for what it is. It's made to be strong and durable, sacrificing refinement for a lower cost. There are countless reels that are more refined, but try finding stronger without spending $700+ for a reel along the lines of the penn torque or saltiga/stella.
Quote from: Three se7ens on April 29, 2014, 10:44:20 PM
Quote from: Tightlines666 on April 29, 2014, 09:26:16 PM
Good thread.
I also forgot to mention that I like the larger diameter drag washers in the versa-drag style (w/fitted/eared CF washers) and the stack under the spool over the diawa/fin nor types. The penn seems to have a slightly better main gear as well as a superior line lay mech. Also could use a few more bearings in my humble opinion. Time will also tell how effective the simplified 'water resistant' seal system will 'hold water' in extreme surf tye environments. The high end reels (diawa, van stal, and shimano) seem to have solved this issue admirably, and I can't see how these modifications are cost-prohibitive at reels designed at lower price points. But I'm no engineer.
Alan Hawk sheared the threads on the pinion of the 8500 ssv at only 22 lbs of drag. The fin nor performed flawlessly at more than double that. Not to mention the intentional abuse on his testing, like reeling fish against a trolling boat time and time again, etc.
The lethal 100 has to be taken for what it is. It's made to be strong and durable, sacrificing refinement for a lower cost. There are countless reels that are more refined, but try finding stronger without spending $700+ for a reel along the lines of the penn torque or saltiga/stella.
I think you are taking one review a little too seriously. We have to take each and every review that someone does with a very, very important caveat: Any individual Study (review) has no Statistical Power when it comes to identifying manufacturing defects or identifying the next great thing for that matter.
What this means is that one SSV with crushed pinion threads means nothing other than "heads up" there might be an issue. One pinion could have missed it's hardening treatment and caused this trouble. Keep an eye peeled etc.
If *hundreds* of SSV had this problem then there would be a large enough sample to say "there is definitely a problem".
But the reality is that SSVs have landed huge numbers of tuna and jacks without this issue ever making it to the forums other than the one time Alan relates. Of course Alan's experience is very real. We simply have no more evidence that any other SSV has any problem with it's pinion despite the many large fish they have landed. This is particularly true given the multi-step process of manufacturing the pinion and the batch nature etc. It is easy to have a one in a thousand problem or a batch problem.
Does this mean there is not one single other SSV with this problem? No. It does mean that there are so few that it is not a concern or we would hear about it as the forums are pretty much on fire whenever a single problem surfaces.
It's hard to communicate this succinctly and come across as objective as I am trying to be...All of us reviewers really just want to point you in the right direction and provide our brothers with good information that will let them make informed decisions on their own. What we do hopefully contributes to your knowledge. But it is never the be all and end all.
You have to take them with a grain of salt until hundreds of the reels are out there and have been used. Then we really get the full picture of what the reel is about for most users.
Case in point: Alan found a lot of problems with the Stella 2013 SW he reviewed. These problems did show up in similar size Stellas but not in others. Other users of the smaller Stellas are in possession of the world's finest spinning reel, but the reel doesn't make Alan's list at all due to the problems he found in the bigger one he reviewed. BTW Shimano confirmed that they had a problem per report.
He is being BRUTALLY honest and cannot make claims about the smaller sizes because he hasn't reviewed them so he leaves it off of his lists. But the fact remains that hundreds of the smaller sizes have been sold without any of the bearing receptacle tolerance issues that he found in the biggest size and people rave about their performance. Couldn't be happier.
If you took Alan's review as the be all and end all then the Stella is expensive junk. If you take it as simply what he found in early production where a particular size had a mold with poor tolerances and then wait and see how things shake out over time you get a clearer picture.
His review of the LT100 shows us that there *could be* a great budget reel out there. I will wait and see what the early adopters find before I jump in with both feet :D.
I particularly will be following the drag cap (that will likely melt when a big tuna makes a run, early Saragosas had this problem), the anodizing that seems particularly poor and the line lay which may produce serious wind knot issues and make the reel unusable for popping with some line classes.
best
John,
What you are saying is true but at $100 and change, I am willing to be an early adopter on this reel only because my guts tell me that the quality will cheapen over time if the accountants have their way. I am hoping to be wrong this time and the engineers win out on the Lethal 100 series.
Quote from: maxpowers on April 29, 2014, 11:43:48 PM
John,
What you are saying is true but at $100 and change, I am willing to be an early adopter on this reel only because my guts tell me that the quality will cheapen over time if the accountants have their way. I am hoping to be wrong this time and the engineers win out on the Lethal 100 series.
Yes! Go for it!
Fish it hard and tell us what you find (photos welcome!).
I hate to sound like a negative Nancy. I just want people to jump in with their eyes wide open :D.
Quote from: johndtuttle on April 29, 2014, 11:51:01 PM
Quote from: maxpowers on April 29, 2014, 11:43:48 PM
John,
What you are saying is true but at $100 and change, I am willing to be an early adopter on this reel only because my guts tell me that the quality will cheapen over time if the accountants have their way. I am hoping to be wrong this time and the engineers win out on the Lethal 100 series.
Yes! Go for it!
Fish it hard and tell us what you find (photos welcome!).
I am hoping to have a chance to do so in a few weeks. I will be heading out on a charter around mid may to fish bottom fish the first day and hopefully some Coronados Yellowtails the next day. I may just fish the Lethal exclusively to test it. Hopefully my Ugly Stik spin rod will be up to the task.
I hate to sound like a negative Nancy. I just want people to jump in with their eyes wide open :D.
The stella will never be expensive junk(hopefully). But according to the Alan Hawks review, the newest model did not live up to standards set by the prior stella and saltiga. That's not to say its a bad reel, it's probably still better than anything most of us will fish with. The bar was at an entirely different level for to stella than the fin nor.
Statistically speaking, Alan Hawks reviews are a good comparison between reels he has tested, not a benchmark for how all reels will perform. Durability won't be an issue for people who don't push reels hard, so a more refined reel is better for them, even if it does not have the brute strength of a less refined reel.
Quote from: maxpowers on April 29, 2014, 11:57:37 PM
I am hoping to have a chance to do so in a few weeks. I will be heading out on a charter around mid may to fish bottom fish the first day and hopefully some Coronados Yellowtails the next day. I may just fish the Lethal exclusively to test it. Hopefully my Ugly Stik spin rod will be up to the task.
Well, those Ugly Stiks have a nice parabolic bend :D.
Looking forward to hearing of your success on some spring yellows at the Coronados. :)
does anybody disagree with anything that alan hawk has said?
cheers
Quote from: wallacewt on April 30, 2014, 02:05:06 AM
does anybody disagree with anything that alan hawk has said?
cheers
I've been following the lethal series since they were announced, as I really like my Sportfisher reels. They aren't pretty or refined, but they are strong, inexpensive, and very easy to work on. I had high hopes for the lethal series, especially when the specs of the 100 were released, but I was worried the execution wouldn't equal the sum of its parts(or specs). But the review gave it even more praise than I had expected.
I'm looking forward to abusing mine, and there are countless sharks in the 8' and up range that haunt the wrecks I fish offshore on which I could really push it.
Before this reel came popping up I would have happily selected a saragosa SW or a saltist or a Rica talisman tg8000 (although with the SS gears) because I do mot know yet whether a spinner is something I will be happy with for stronger pelagic fish and because i'm not certain I will not spent the 1000-1300 required for a stella or saltiga.
If I would have to fish it very often it might be a differnt story but I will only fish it a couple of days per year intermittant. It just needs to be ready to take on something bigger.
The fin nor seems to adress what I would have modified on a saltist/saragosa/talisman myself.
I won't forget it is a 135 buck reel and that smootness and longevity are not in the top league. The line lay issue I think I can solve. When I do I will report back.
Nevertheless I think that affordable spinners that are sufficiently strong will find their way to the market. Whether this is one of them remains to be tested on a larger scale.
I hope I will have the opportunity to abuse it like I should ;D
Quote from: wallacewt on April 30, 2014, 02:05:06 AM
does anybody disagree with anything that alan hawk has said?
cheers
i odn't have enough experience with spinners to disagree with him. but at the end of the day first hand experience with anything is what counts, maybe it's just me.
Quote from: wallacewt on April 30, 2014, 02:05:06 AM
does anybody disagree with anything that alan hawk has said?
cheers
Not exactly and it would be ridiculous to disagree categorically as he rigorously documents all of his findings nor have any of us even examined let alone tested the reel in question.
What is being done is providing a additional word of caution that he himself puts in his post that is often glossed over by those less inclined.
The flaws he finds in the reel from manufacturing show a reel that should have never made it out of the factory. Shoddy anodizing on the spool that should be instantly returned for a replacement, shoddy molding on the crosswind block that may just be cosmetic but should never have gotten put in the reel in the first place and a drag cap that is going to have serious heat issues on serious fish (see melted drag caps on older model Saragosas) let alone the overall drag performance that he worries about in a long fight. Then there is the line lay that is also problematic.
This makes me concerned but I simply have to wait and see how the early adopters fare. I don't have the time to fish and test like I'd like. The LT100 is a big reel that can be used on big fish. Before I drink the koolaid I want to see it hold up to GTs and big Tuna.
Also, I think Alan would be the first to admit he holds "the big guys" to a higher standard than he does a relative underdog, Fin Nor, in this regard which should hardly be surprising given the vitriol I have seen posted by the big guy's representatives when he points out the actual facts of their product's shortcomings.
If a Daiwa, Penn or Shimano had the same issues though, I wonder if Alan would have been so forgiving?
Quote from: johndtuttle on April 30, 2014, 07:46:45 PM
Quote from: wallacewt on April 30, 2014, 02:05:06 AM
does anybody disagree with anything that alan hawk has said?
cheers
Not exactly and it would be ridiculous to disagree categorically as he rigorously documents all of his findings nor have any of us even examined let alone tested the reel in question.
What is being done is providing a additional word of caution that he himself puts in his post that is often glossed over by those less inclined.
The flaws he finds in the reel from manufacturing show a reel that should have never made it out of the factory. Shoddy anodizing on the spool that should be instantly returned for a replacement, shoddy molding on the crosswind block that may just be cosmetic but should never have gotten put in the reel in the first place and a drag cap that is going to have serious heat issues on serious fish (see melted drag caps on older model Saragosas) let alone the overall drag performance that he worries about in a long fight. Then there is the line lay that is also problematic.
This makes me concerned but I simply have to wait and see how the early adopters fare. I don't have the time to fish and test like I'd like. The LT100 is a big reel that can be used on big fish. Before I drink the koolaid I want to see it hold up to GTs and big Tuna.
Also, I think Alan would be the first to admit he holds "the big guys" to a higher standard than he does a relative underdog, Fin Nor, in this regard which should hardly be surprising given the vitriol I have seen posted by the big guy's representatives when he points out the actual facts of their product's shortcomings.
If a Daiwa, Penn or Shimano had the same issues though, I wonder if Alan would have been so forgiving?
John,
I think the best selling point to me is that after more than 100 hours of use, which is about 15 to 20 fishing days, the reel still looked in fairly good conditionand is ready to handle another 100 hours of fishing without issues. That is more than I will probably be able to use this reel in a couple of years of fishing. As for what you pointed out, yes it is disappointing to see those issues but at $100 I cannot fault the manufacturer too much especially since the issue does not affect performance (with the exception of the line lay). If this reel had come in at $300+ I think AH would have been much more critical and probably would have been less enthusiastic about it. Like I said if this reel perform well and is well received I would not be surprised to see an after market spool, cap and washers etc, that addressed your concern. Can't wait for my reel to get here next week. I will take some pictures and video of it if I can.
Would love to hear your impressions and your point about the value is absolutely correct.
All casual spin fisherman will benefit if Fin Nor can make this simple reel with quality components for years to come. It has every "required" feature without the hundreds of dollars spent on un-needed sealing and line rollers engineered apparently for a Nasa trip to Mars that some of the super spinners have.
I just wish they made a size just like this that held 300yards of 50lb braid. ;D
best
Along with the Offshore series the Lethal 100 is another firm recommendation for the big game freshwater anglers. I was impressed by the build quality, design and use of materials.
There are three aspects that make or break a reel be it a spinner or a multiplier and they are
- design
- materials
- execution (build quality)
Any failure on at least one of them definitely breaks a reel
This is only my opinion – just an observation:
One thing we need to be aware of is the bigger picture in worldwide business nowadays.
Our world has become flatter with the instant communication of information. The sun never sets on the internet.
This has allowed us to do things we never could have realized a couple of decades ago -- operate businesses, communicate freely with anyone, belong to forums like this one, share information 24/7, consider various opinions, and offer ideas -- all instantly.
However, there are also larger forces at work -- some good, some bad -- but they are a reality and here to stay.
For example, there is a place for small independent companies that offer service and products to a specific demographic of clients.
But, the mid-level manufacturers are being gobbled up by larger corporations at an alarming rate. Take for example, Pure Fishing – they have brought some of the biggest names in the angling industry under one roof (ABU, Mitchell, Penn, etc...) But even then, Pure Fishing is owned by a much larger company that owns 120 or so companies the size of Pure Fishing.
The motivation for these super large conglomerates is profit, cash flow, and stock values prior to another acquisition – or spinning off some of their non-performing companies as these may no longer fit their business model.
It is all $$$ -- and really has little or nothing to do with our fishing tackle industry. It just boils down to mathematics, cash flow, stock values -- and to a somewhat lesser extent -- corporate executive egos & the plumping up of resumes.
We live in a day and age of planned obsolescence of manufactured products. Companies have figured out about how long a product should last before the consumer gets tired or bored with it – and at or near that point the product generally fails – and the consumer buys another. And the vast majority of world-wide consumers have just accepted this as the way things are.
I'm just a little guy, a reel mechanic who charges $18 - $20 to service a fishing reel. I have a passion for the engineering, mechanics, and the skill required to do a good job for my clients.
So, when a product comes along like a Fin Nor L100 – I don't get too excited that it will be the reel that will change the angling world (it won't) – but it will be a good value -- manufactured by a company that may even listen to folks like Alan Hawk, Alan Tani, John Tuttle, and other recognized experts in the industry. These experts may recommend upgrades and changes – and generally a responsible company will incorporate those ideas into their next manufacturing release.
And then again, the smaller battles between departments within a company (Marketing, Engineering, Manufacturing, Accounting) may smother the whole reel out of existence – or it may become a company like Shimano, Okuma, Daiwa, or Penn – all of whom try to put quality at the forefront.
And, we can be hopeful that this reel will be a winner over time – but there are many factors at work here that we have little control over.
For some of you who haven't seen John Tuttle's tutorial on the Penn 704Z (yes, a spinning reel) – it is very well done and brilliant.
Here is the link to it on the Alan Tani website:
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=6971.0
Best Regards,
Fred
Fred,
All very true. Have nothing against economics of scale.
But if pure fishing is not making the reels we want for the price we are willing to pay their cash flow will deteriorate.
I will try, at least for myself, to evaluate and justify a purchase.
Within reason of course, fish is cheaper than gear and gallons ;D
Quote from: johndtuttle on April 30, 2014, 08:54:23 PM
Would love to hear your impressions and your point about the value is absolutely correct.
All casual spin fisherman will benefit if Fin Nor can make this simple reel with quality components for years to come. It has every "required" feature without the hundreds of dollars spent on un-needed sealing and line rollers engineered apparently for a Nasa trip to Mars that some of the super spinners have.
I just wish they made a size just like this that held 300yards of 50lb braid. ;D
best
Maxpower please follow up with your impressions of the reel. To all of you, thanx for your comments which I found have much merit.
Ive a problem with Chinese made products and that is that IMHO the quality of manufacturing/materials is "MARGINALIZED TO THE MINIMUM" extent possible within the design/manufacture/materials specifications given. One could argue that "most" manufacturer's do in this "throw away" age that we live in, however not to the extent that the Chinese do IMHO.
im aware/own some Chinese products of "higher quality", but that is either by mistake or no other option. Even these higher quality products have issues that I dont find with other US or other quality products NOT manufactured in China. Ive NEVER seen or heard of a "over-built" Chinese made product as I have first hand experience with other products that I own. With the last space shuttle disaster, NASA engineers found Chinese made products had been soourced for some components (not that they caused the disaster). NASA pulled all Chinese parts from the shuttle and that says something.
Its not my intent to bash Chinese products here, for I can understand a nation of 3+ BILLION people in a "closed " society needing to meet the demands for it population. However China NOW manufactures for the world and has been for awhile now and must compete with whats left of the "quality" manufacturers for market share.
John, I put some of your comment in bold letters to bring attention to this is what Penn did with their SS series, and what I like about them is they used the same materials/build in their entire series of 2nd gen reels and why they are still viable reels of QUALITY 30+ years later which speaks volumes about quality builds.
I look forward to see how well this reel holds up, for I'll jump-ship in a second from my newly aquired set of SS reels if they address the issues and use the same quality parts in their entire line of this reel.
Leo
(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb326/wallacewt/IMG_2083_zps21619dbc.jpg) (http://s1200.photobucket.com/user/wallacewt/media/IMG_2083_zps21619dbc.jpg.html)
this washer was of rubber material and distorted,
not sure you can see it next to calipers.
threw it away and replaced with 1mm carbon fibre
serviced the reel, plenty of grease, they missed a few spots (everybody does)
(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb326/wallacewt/IMG_2084_zps47deb46f.jpg) (http://s1200.photobucket.com/user/wallacewt/media/IMG_2084_zps47deb46f.jpg.html)
c/f washers are .5mm thick,i regreased.
only fault I found was one of the screws
that hold the slider to the shaft was loose.
80lb braid wound on nice and even
17lb of drag was smooth
go fish,cheers
ps; 300m x 80lb braid +20m 100lb leader
Thank you Wallace. Is that rubber washer, the one underneath the spool or is it part of the drag stack? You were only able to get 17 lbs of drag?
i only tried 17lb,i cant handle any more.plenty left.
the washer is underneath the spool.
give it a service,its simple and easy.
i didnt find any loctite on mine
Hello people!
I was directed to this discussion by one of my readers. I no more post on web forums because it takes time that I no more have to check and recheck threads and respond and rebut, but I'm making an exception this time since John is indeed a friend whose opinion I value greatly and if someone is worth the time it's definitely him.
QuoteSSVs have landed huge numbers of tuna and jacks without this issue ever making it to the forums other than the one time Alan relates.
Actually John that's not the case. There have been many reports of gearing problems of the SSV reels on forums. Here are a few screen shots of such examples, some state clearly that pinions broke, and some are confused users whose reels locked up describing symptoms that I have no doubt indicate gearing deformation/breakage.
(http://www.alanhawk.com/misc/w.jpg)
These are just a few samples that over time people sent to me and I bookmarked for reference, but there are more if you search. In addition to the public complaints, I did get a considerable number of messages from people whose SSV suffered gearing failures as well. There is an issue with the gear, no question about it.
Quote
the Stella 2013 SW he reviewed. These problems did show up in similar size Stellas but not in others.
Actually the problem does appear on some of the smaller sizes as well. Here is a quick example of someone who posted that the problem is found on his 6000 and 14000
(http://www.alanhawk.com/misc/e.jpg)
Also if you check the screen shots in my blog entry named "Recalls, rubbish, and web" you will see that on Shimano's facebook someone told them that he surveyed people he knows and that he found that the rotor play exists in different sizes but more obvious in 8000 and up. It's not at all an issue with the size I tested or I would definitely have mentioned that it's just one size. In addition to these public examples, I have received a large number of complaints about various sizes of SW privately, as well as people who told me they didn't sense a perceptible play on theirs.
Of course I don't blame John at all for not knowing about these. He doesn't have my resources nor he is contacted by hundreds of people with links and reel failure complaints as is the case with me. He remains one of the most talented fishermen I know and I always forward people to his brilliant tutorials, and I hope that by stating the above examples I would get even more of his confidence :)
One thing I want to point out in general; when I post that a reel has failed then other people report that theirs worked fine, it doesn't mean that I had a unique situation or a lemon. What I do is that I systematically challenge the reel up to it's
FULL advertised capability, and if a failure occurs I pin point the stage at which it happened. So in the case of the Penn SSV, it was advertised as being able to work at 35lb of drag, then mine broke at the 22lbs point. How many people who casually fish their SSV and report "no issues" have actually used them at that high drag mark? When you hear these things don't take it as a contradiction between my findings and their reports. Rather I have access to fishing situations where I methodically test a particular reel to its limits, other users simply don't do that and they don't come anywhere close to fishing at full advertised figures. This extends to all my reels be it a Penn or a Stella/Saltiga/VS/Quantum/Okuma etc.
I'm not claiming that whatever I say is written in stone. Just a guy doing his best and could get things right or wrong. It's just that with my reviews being shared by such a large a global following I have a massive responsibility not to say anything before I make sure it's as accurate as humanely possible at the time of writing, that it's not one of a kind situation, and the amount of time and effort I put into this is something you wouldn't believe just to make sure I offer the best information I can manage as a one-man-operation.
Regarding the other points, well, of course I'm smitten :D I never though let my personal feelings get in the way of objective evaluation. I was the one who found and exposed the finish and casting issues, I was the one who showed a problem with the line lay using thin line when it spools thicker line (that you would use) much better, and I was the one who mentioned a drag heating issue so slight that 95% of the users will never feel. I'm as brutal as always and showing everything to the people so they can make up their own minds, then adding my own take which is since nothing affected reliability and real life performance I consider it the best value out there for the lousy amount it costs. I did find much worse finish issues on the spool and handle of the Stella SW which costs as much as 11 Lethals!!
Thanks John and everyone who posted for your continuing trust and the very nice things said about me in this thread, and to AlanTani; since you dared to bad mouth my beloved spinning reels, I have to tell you that I hate conventional reels and think they are ugly and smelly! If you do it again I will write a review about YOU personally and tell the world that you're suffering multiple "dysfunctions" :P
Cheers all!
Alan,
I very much appreciate your reviews. I have had this question running around in my head for a while - if the 2008 Stella SW was still in production would it still be at the top of your list?
Thanks,
Kyle
Thanks very much for that Alan and I honor your trust as well as the technical information that you have kindly shared with myself and well as your other readers.
I of course, stand corrected in specific detail, but maintain that my point was that we should not take the posted incidents as documented proof (for example) that the pinion in the SSV is categorically junk, as some (not yourself) would leap to do, only that it is clear Penn had a problem with at least some of their production as you found and documented and others have found, clearly, in some cases. The problem is that the extent is entirely unknown to us as well as the completeness of resolution (if any).
BTW a contact at Penn shared with me they greatly valued your input and review as your identified issues in the early Torque Spinning made that reel better when pointed out early and corrected.
I hope you can understand in this written post that I am not trying to split hairs, simply point out that some identified failures out of thousands of reels sold do not make a complete picture? I guess I feel that the SSV has been held to a higher standard than other makers who have their share of problems too with their budget offerings, not by yourself, but by the forum-sphere (I just invented that :D ). Of course, Penn set that bar high themselves with their marketing campaign.
So hard to communicate the entire gist of what I mean...hrm...
You are aware of my scientific background so I hope you appreciate my comments and views as being more of a concern with the Statistical Mean performance rather than the Outlier case. Particularly for budget reels that sell in the thousands. By this I mean to say that reported failures tend to be magnified by the internet as well as success stories relating the miracle landing of a whopper with a budget reel or that people never do anything to their XXX reel and it lasts forever. I take all with a degree of skepticism (they are all anecdotes/outliers in a sense) for what it means for my fishing (generally average needs) and perhaps place more trust in Penn/Shimano/Daiwa etc than I should that they can correct manufacturing problems.
We certainly can expect that one failure posted on the internet means several more failed and were sent back without documentation...just as we can expect that a few posted failures does not represent the entirety of a production of various sizes of a given model etc. But of course where there is smoke there is fire, we just don't know the extent of the issue.
As I final thought I would like to re-emphasize my regard for your honest and documented examples of the shortcomings as well as strong points of the reels you review. Anyone that questions their veracity needs their own head examined or at the very least their motives questioned. You make no claims other than what the reel in your hand can provide by your actual use, documentation and analysis. A great boon to us all.
However, all such information remains only one piece of the puzzle for the consumer and I only hope the early adopters of these products do so with their eyes open that a new introduction commonly has teething issues...They should accept that they themselves are likely some of the first unbiased field testers of actual production regardless of the source of manufacture. It remains a case of "buyer beware" until we have years of success behind us and the company remains viable etc. This should not be interpreted by any reader as remotely a criticism of your work only as a heads up for their own use when they spend their hard earned coin on their new tool.
best regards
Quote from: Kyle K on May 01, 2014, 07:52:13 PM
if the 2008 Stella SW was still in production would it still be at the top of your list?
Indeed Kyle. It would definitely be on top as long as it maintains the same standards of quality and performance. At $950 I kept telling people for about 5 years that it was a great value considering that it was sold for $1300 in Japan, and I believe some thought I was a bit cuckoo :p This doesn't mean that you should go out and buy them now. They have been discontinued for more than a year and parts will be available for a limited number of years therefore I generally advise against buying out of production reels.
Quote from: johndtuttle on May 01, 2014, 08:52:25 PM
Thanks very much for that Alan
Excellent post as usual and I certainly agree with you. I wish you lived a little closer so I could get you to test reels with me, that's after you swear never to reveal some of the weird stuff you'll see on prototype reels :D
Penn indeed were great taking note of my review and perfecting the Torque accordingly, and I believe this reel deserves more credit than it generally gets. They don't promote it properly in my opinion.
All the best.
Alan Hawk, what a treat. I hope you'll visit more often.
Thanks for stopping by, Sal
x2 thank you sir
Welcome, Alan! You have more than a few here that follow your reviews. I love my spinners. I just wish I could afford the cream of the crop. The Fin Nor Lethal 100 is within my means. I will buy one soon and see how it does.
Thanks for the unbiased reviews. Hang around maybe Alan T. can convince you to buy a sweepfire. ;) ;D
Bob
Quote from: Alto Mare on May 01, 2014, 09:51:48 PM
Alan Hawk, what a treat. I hope you'll visit more often.
Thanks for stopping by, Sal
X3
and thanks for mentioning the torque :)
Maybe someday you'll consider a review or 2 of some top-rated conventionals as well? I would love to hear your thoughts on the Penn.
Quote from: maxpowers on April 28, 2014, 06:38:16 PM
and...? PRC can manufactured some high end stuffs too. (Ahem Apple products) This is the case of maybe the company is committed to higher quality reel at a cost to profitability. Just maybe we should applaud the company for doing something right instead of broad brushing it..?
Is Apple considered high end or quality? Their pods and phones have no consumer removable batteries forcing entire item replacement when the battery dies. Recharge must be through computer drive where it sits waiting for a virus or worse wont charge anytime the system sleeps. Oh yeah quality today means disposable, consumer unfriendly. We must embrace our obligation to consume.
Quote from: Tightlines666 on May 01, 2014, 11:04:02 PM
Quote from: Alto Mare on May 01, 2014, 09:51:48 PM
Alan Hawk, what a treat. I hope you'll visit more often.
Thanks for stopping by, Sal
X3
and thanks for mentioning the torque :)
Maybe someday you'll consider a review or 2 of some top-rated conventionals as well? I would love to hear your thoughts on the Penn.
I doubt that Alan Hawk would ever do a review on conventionals, I asked him that same question about a year ago and he said that Alan Tani petty much had that covered, and he was right ;D
You've got that right Sal. I wouldn't dare step into Mr. Tani's turf. Last guy who tried that disappeared and only his left ear was found 3 years later :P
Thanks all for the warm welcome and kind words, and I will sure be frequenting this board since the quality of threads and posters here is truly outstanding :)
Tight lines.
Welcome to the board, and big thanks for all the reviews. Whether or not a particular reel interests me, I still have learned a ton about what makes a reel good or bad, strong or weak, etc.
finally, someone that actually likes spinners, welcome, alan hawk!!!!! ;D
I think you all should come up with a fishing reel manufacturers version of the Shark Tank. A panel of the Alan's, John, Alto, and Bryan review proposals from Penn, Daiwa, Shimano, Quantum, etc. They all may leave crying and offended, but eventually they might put together a solid reel top to bottom. I'd pay money to see Alan Hawk tell Dave Pfeiffer their claims on the side of the box are "rubbish." ;D
Quote from: maxpowers on April 29, 2014, 11:43:48 PM
John,
What you are saying is true but at $100 and change, I am willing to be an early adopter on this reel only because my guts tell me that the quality will cheapen over time if the accountants have their way. I am hoping to be wrong this time and the engineers win out on the Lethal 100 series.
x 2 ..... Max and I will give them a test run for you guys. Mine will be here in 2 weeks. I've already had great success with the Offshore series so I'm really looking forward to fishing these two side by side so I can compare.... $135.. I could eat that value in fish alone the first week I own it. ;) ;)
Welcome and thank you Alan Hawk... It's a preasure and a Plivlidge you dropped in on us :P
Hope to see you more often...
And Thank you for taking another look into the Finnors!
I will be using it on May 17th on bottom critters and maybe some free swimming Yellowtails if we come across any kelp paddies. Then wake up on May 18th at the Coronados to test them against some home guard and pelagic Yellowtails.
this is a damn good subject.$100 worth of fun.
im like alan t i dont like spinners or star drags(me)
i may build a bent butt rail rod for the {"lethal"(i like the name)
large live bait,25lb drag or more, and turn the "lethal" into a
"limp"
life is good,cheers
Welcome Alan Hawk
It's great to see you here!
:D
G'day Alan,
Glad to have another spin fisherman on board.
Rgds
Mark
Well, received the spinner yesterday. As I am still in NY and the wife and dauchter had other plans than taking reels apart it has to wait until return to home and when the maddnes of day to day live will allow me.
Thanks Mr Hawk for chiming in. It is much appreciated.
What I saw is OK, considered I will busing the reel a couple of days a year
Mine did have the casting flaw in the traverse block, but the spool anodizing was just fine. I'll post some pics this weekend when I get a little more time.
6 pages in a few days on here? This reel really stirred up something...
Wallace, or anyone that has one in there hands,
Is there enough material on the knob end of the handle to drill a 6mm hole for an after market knob?
Thanks, Michael
Quote from: wallacewt on May 02, 2014, 11:53:38 PM
this is a damn good subject.$100 worth of fun.
im like alan t i dont like spinners or star drags(me)
i may build a bent butt rail rod for the {"lethal"(i like the name)
large live bait,25lb drag or more, and turn the "lethal" into a
"limp"
life is good,cheers
Wait a while, the Lethal Star Drags come out soon, and promise to be a step above the OHC model from Finnor - ceramic bearings as standard - might get close to a lever drag.
Cheers
from sunny Africa.
Jeri
Quote from: mhc on May 03, 2014, 10:40:14 AM
Wallace, or anyone that has one in there hands,
Is there enough material on the knob end of the handle to drill a 6mm hole for an after market knob?
Thanks, Michael
Yes, there is. It's .54" in diameter and .375" thick where the knob attaches to the handle.
The lethal 100 handle makes a nice upgrade for the smaller lethal and Sportfisher series. It fit perfectly on my Sportfisher 60.
Jeri, the lethal star drags are already out here. Www.srmo.com has them for $129.99 plus shipping.
UPS, about 15 mins ago, delivered my LT100 purchased off of eBay. It's comparable in size to my Okuma CD-90 (which the LT100 will replace).
The back of the spool has the anodizing/manufacturing defect pattern that Alan showed but there's a bit more anodizing than what Alan has on his. The grease amount on the stem joint is almost same as what Alan showed; there is a fair amount of grease in the left handle recess and the matching one on the right (under the body cap); there's also grease visible along the edges of the gearbox cover.
When cranking, it DOES sound like there is a "frog" (albeit, a little one) trapped in the gearbox, but I think it just gives the reel a bit of character. ;)
Mounted on my Daiwa Saltist STW70MHFS, the whole setup's balance point is 1.25" above the front reel seat hood. The egg-shaped knob is about 3/4 inch longer than the knob on the CD-90, and it fits well in my hands so an after-market knob may not necessary for the time being. Will see how it all works out on the forthcoming 2014 SOA trip.
Will apply pre-service marine grease where necessary and spool with 50lb braid, so it should be ready for action June 16th-21st.
Mine just got here also. It fairly quiet compared to my double dogged tank, etc so that's fine with me. It seems actually bigger than the 8500 SSV that I have. It is not as smooth as the 8500 though especially when cranking. My spool actually did not have any defect and I will be replacing the rubber under-spool with a carbontex drag washer or a teflon washer. this may fixed the line lay issue that AH mentioned. The handle fit nicely in my hand but the arm felt strange. Probably because I have not actually mount it on a rod yet. I might pick up another ugly stik spinning jigging rod to match with it.
hi maxpowers
i also felt the handle arm strange,felt like it was to far away from the reel itself. ???
dont think you need to change the handle knob,but that is personal.
cheers
the drag also ramped up very quickly once you get to the higher range. between 9 lbs to 15 lbs was maybe 1/4 of the turn on the knob, 15-30 lbs was another quarter and there was only maybe less of a quarter turn to lock down.
Update: I was able to use a teflon washer from a penn 7500 ssm. The rubber washer measured .9 mm and i had a 1.1 mm and a .6 mm. Since the line was laying a bit more on the bottom vs the top I opted to use the .6 mm washer.
did it help?what size line.
wallace - I am using pe8 lines with (25 yards) of 100 lbs hollow core on top. I plan to use up to 80 lbs topshot on this reel.
Mine turned up today - I had planned to replace the handle grip but the original is bigger/better than I expected so I'll wait and see as well. There aren't any noticeable defects in the anodizing under the spool on this one.
Michael
Got a couple in the mail today from Shark River. Out of the box impressions are a bit mixed. I'm not real impressed with the drag knob. One of the two has a loose disc underneath that doesn't seem to cause any problems, but I don't like anything loose- it eventually comes off completely. The drag knob itself is strange in that the bar affixed to the top isn't symmetrical- one end is slightly taller than the other. I'm guessing this is a design flaw as I can't figure out the design purpose otherwise. Neither seems to affect the drag performance... but you like to know the company wasn't completely sloppy.
I know a lot of reels get sold at the counter based on how they look and feel- mainly look. These reels aren't going to outsell any others in their class in that regard. Of course, there aren't many offshore-capable spinning reels in the sub $150 range these days. Penn Conflict 8000? SSV 7500? Daiwa Exceler 6500? Even the Spheros is a $200 reel these days. Anyway, hopefully for Zebco, their internal components live up to Alan Hawk's accolades.
The handle and knob are nice and the reel is fairly smooth for a $100 spinner.
In two weeks these will get some AJ/Grouper/Snapper work and we'll see how they do.
The finish certainly doesn't live up to what the gear train is capable of... I dropped the spool and dinged up the finish on it. I know anodizing isn't indestructible, but this didn't hold up much better than a decent paint. For the time being, I chucked the spool in the lathe and sanded then polished the lip. I've been wanting to try cerakote on a spool, and my 9/0 was going to be the ginuea pig, but my fin nor may get bumped to the top of that list just because the anodizing is so soft.
I love the knob, and my other fin nors will be getting a 100 handle when they are available. The extra length is especially nice over my sportfisher.
Mine held ~20-30 yds of 60 lb mono topped with 330 yds of 80 lb daiwa saltiga braid. That's pretty good for a spinner.
Marine greased the underside of the spool, the underside of the rotor, and every spot of metal and finish in between that wasn't already factory-greased along the way. Two tiny flakes of the aluminum/anodizing came off from the underside of spool on to my grease brush--the only observable quality issues.
Added additional marine grease to every surface between all the inner surfaces of the roller housing as well as the contact surfaces between the seam of the gearbox cover and the gearbox itself. Hopefully this will minimize the effect of salt spray and splashing on deck--NO intentions of ever dunking this thing.
That was as far as I was willing to delve into the innards of a spinning reel that my inexperience will "allow" me. ;D
Quote from: Porthos on May 12, 2014, 12:56:35 AM
Marine greased the underside of the spool, the underside of the rotor, and every spot of metal and finish in between that wasn't already factory-greased along the way. Two tiny flakes of the aluminum/anodizing came off from the underside of spool on to my grease brush--the only observable quality issues.
Added additional marine grease to every surface between all the inner surfaces of the roller housing as well as the contact surfaces between the seam of the gearbox cover and the gearbox itself. Hopefully this will minimize the effect of salt spray and splashing on deck--NO intentions of ever dunking this thing.
That was as far as I was willing to delve into the innards of a spinning reel that my inexperience will "allow" me. ;D
As far as spinners go, it doesn't get much simpler and more straight forward than this one. I wish you could pull the side plate without removing the rotor like the rest of the lethal and Sportfisher models though.
I am so bummed out. MY trip this weekend has been cancelled due to family emergency with the captain.
Is there a tutorial/review on this site yet for this reel? It would be nice to SEE what you guys are experiencing.
Leo
http://www.alanhawk.com/reviews/lth10.html
Looks like Alan H. was right on target about negative threads cropping up about his review, though most responses have been very different from what the nay-sayer intended:
http://www.thehulltruth.com/sportfishing-charters-forum/587929-fin-nor-lethal-100-not-understanding-hype.html
and people ask why i stay clear of spinners...... :-\
My LT100 got field tested on the Alan Tani 2014 Spirit of Adventure Charter.
Line: 50 lb Suffix Braid
Drag setting: 13.5 lbs from top of spool (probably around 15 lbs with line run on the rod guides)
Lost two yellowtail (1 due to bad Yucatan knot; 1 due to line breakage as I tried to clear the bow anchor).
Afterwards, got two YT landed (first around 20 lbs, second around 15 lbs).
Neither YT managed any significant runs; there was no frame flex detected during fights. Reel seemed just as smooth after the second YT was boated. There was times when it was difficult to turn the crank, but it was probably due more to the fact that my fighting position was not optimal. I was nowhere near pushing the reel as hard as Alan Hawk did--and I have no intentions of ever exceeding 16 lbs max drag.
After being on the boat for five days and banged against the boat rail and other rods and reels multiple times, the bail arm joints (?) did get lines of the sliver-gray paint scratched off, and the spool edge got some minute dings--the usual typical boat rash. Otherwise, the reel is mechanically ready for the next trip.
Very satisfied with the reel and its performance.
Received mine today. It came with a spool spacer to adjust line lay. Anodize on spool was good, no defects in castings I could see. Well lubricated. Hope to try it in the next couple of weeks.
What is the thickness of the spool spacer that you use for best line lay? My early production Lethal 100 did not come with the extra spacers.
Big brown truck is supposed to bring mine today.
I used two of the three supplied spool spacers. Didn't measure the thickness, sorry. Water has been pretty rough here, so I've only been trolling. No chance to use the reel.