Hi guys, I recently smashed the torpedo knob off my reel and am looking into methods of replacement. I am trying all ideas possible to keep the reel in aestetically original condition. I am also planning on doing a solid write up also if sucessful.
A breakdown of the handle consists of
1. Handle arm
2. Copper or brass? Rivet
3. Spindle
4. Handle knob
5. Knurled metal Oil cap
There may be other pieces inside the spindle but cannot say.
I have a few questions also.
1. Has anybody successfully removed the copper rivet in one piece and replaced the spindle/handle assembly? If so explain?
2. How does the rivet attach the spindle and the handle arm? Is there a way to replace the rivet?
3. What does the "oil cap" do? Do you put oil in it? Could be silly I know but I haven't found any info on this.
4. Another method is to heat the SPINDLE (not the knob) until it can be pulled off. Who has acomplished this without damage to the torpedo knob?
Irish jiggers quote Was very helpful but it doesn't mention removal or refitting of the rivet.
Also the picture of the penn factory worker is a great picture and all but I'm still unsure how to do it/ what it looks like peened inside the spindle or however it goes.
Thanks for your help
Hi Clinton --
Those are generally not able to be replaced -- but of course, given enough time, TLC, effort, skill, and a little luck -- anything can be accomplished.
For an exact easy fit -- what reel, what is the part number on the underside of the handle blade, and what is your first color preference?
I will send you a complete at no charge.
If this is for your 12/0 -- I have a new one in black bakelite.
If for smaller Penns, I likely have most of those in assorted colors.
Best,
Fred
The easiest way is to drill the rivet out and replace with an aftermarket handle.
I usually just replace the handle arm with stainless and upgrade to a 5/0 Kokelar Grip.
The difference is unbelievable.
If you insist on keeping it original. I too have an assortment of handles.
I'm telling you, these are the Bees knees.
Once you try one, there is no turning back.
I have them on all my Big Senators.
Foakes that's really nice of you mate! Yes it's for a 12/0 but it just says 24 on the inside of the arm I'm pretty sure. I bought a NOS penn handle 3.5" butterscotch colour knob/spindle assembly from eBay and was planning on taking it all down to the local genius tool maker to see what he says. The knob/spindle is a separate piece so it must be able to be reattached in the factory way some how?
Hope these work it's been about 10 years since I've a forum site haha
(https://preview.ibb.co/nHEcrQ/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/msM1J5)
(https://preview.ibb.co/k7pXQk/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/g0viWQ)
(https://image.ibb.co/c1Zoy5/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/eqaHrQ)
<a target='_blank' href='https://imgbb.com/'>free image hosting api</a>
Some here have had luck using a jig and press to press the knobs off and back on the shaft. I broke 1 or 2 trying. I also melted 1 trying to apply heat (along with the penetrant) to aid the process. A through search here may help you find the posting. As Daron says, easiest to just drill the peened portion out and replace with an aftermarket assembly.
John
Tightlines666 I've seen a few bubbly knobs on eBay haha. Has anybody seen what the rivet actually looks like inside the spindle? The only external upgrade I'd been thinking about was trying to find a 14/0 handle with a non split big torpedo knob. I've read the different arms work well but I really enjoy the original look of the senators
I only fish for Sharks Clinton.
I caught my first one on a bone stock 12/0 with the stock handle.
These upgrades make it so more easy.
I'm not trying to sell anything.
These are upgrades made and provided my members here including Alan Tani Himself.
Those peened rivet handles were done at the penn factory back in the day.
I'm not saying it can't be done again, but I for one , would not attempt it considering the advantages of the modern upgrades.
Good luck with your Endeavor.
Fred! I'm really liking that display!
Especially that the three big boys came from my Collection.
1/0 , 2, 3, 4, 6, 9, 10, 12, 14 and 16/0. Nice!
Daron
Fred has a photo of the spindle and sleeve with the knob removed above. I think they are all about the same. There is another photo of the sleeve with knob removed somewhere on the site. That was probably Fred's contribution too.
If Clinton's knob isn't what you're looking for, it would be easier to get a complete original handle than the parts.
-steve
id love to see a photo of the spindle with the sleeve removed before I start going for it to see what it looks like under there. knowing that Fred has offered to send me a new black one is very generous but if it can be repaired then that could help a few people replace theirs also
also what purpose does the oil cap serve in the knob?
Quote from: Clinton LBG on April 19, 2017, 07:52:23 AM
also what purpose does the oil cap serve in the knob?
To keep the inner shaft from seizing to the outer tube. The only way to remove the shaft (which you call a rivet) is to drill out the peened over area in the back of the handle (3/16 drill) but then the shaft will be to short to reuse. No parts were ever available to replace the shaft. The only other option is to make a shaft the correct length yourself & repeen it into the handle without bending it. Remove the knob first so you can knock out the oil port so a support can be inserted when you try to peen the homemade shaft onto the handle. After digesting all of that just buy another complete handle assembly. Rudy
Rowdy now I'm confused as to what I have bought?(pictured above) The piece I am referring to as the rivet is the part that sticks out slightly on the inside of the arm. It didn't look to me that the spindle on the new handle is wide enough to fill the hole so I thought there may have been another piece
I will check I may have a whole butterscotch one you can hold. I replaced mine with new 50vsx handles.
Clinton, that peened over part is the end of the shaft that is inside the chromed tube. The shaft is thicker were it goes through the tubing and then steps down to approx. 3/16 to go through the handle. The exposed part that sticks through the handle is then peened over which causes it to spread out on the handle. The shaft is shaped like a shoulder screw to give a little free play to the handle and not bind up tight when peening the end of the shaft. Take my word for it, it is so. When you get another handle drill out the peened end dead center with a 3/16 drill in your old handle. It will then fall off the handle arm. You can then push the pin out through the top of the tube if the knob is removed. I can't explain it any simpler without confusing you.
I'm going to try to say what Rudy said in different words. I think. What you are referring to as a "rivet" is an inner shaft. The outer shaft, attached to the handle, rotates around it. The part that sticks out is what would go through the handle arm and then be peened (smashed) on the back side of the arm to hold it all together. When they say you are better off finding a complete replacement I think they are right - it's the practical solution.
Sid
Good explanations, gentlemen --
And Rudy is right, that old spindle can be drilled out -- and the new one you can install by peening the brass inner rod onto to the backside.
Here are the problems (but you may just want to go ahead and putter around with the handle -- and that is perfectly fine -- you will learn, and so will we) :
-- A hand peened or knurled over brass knob shaft will never be as strong as one from the factory -- you get exactly one chance to do it right the first time -- meaning if too loose, things will be prone to bending and not spinning true -- too tight, and you are also done.
-- if increasing the drag stack numbers, and fishing sharks -- the stock handle will not be a long lasting part of your 12/0.
-- if it were mine (only my opinion) I would get an aftermarket handle and blade like Daron has pictured, a drag stack from one of our engineering wizards -- and use that for actual shark fishing -- that would be my minimum. Then just pop off the fighting handle and install the amber handle when on display. Process takes about 4 minutes.
This experience on this site can help with nearly anything you need -- we all learn from each other.
Looking forward to your sharking adventure photos --
Let us know if you need anything...
Best Always,
Fred
Thanks guys some really good Advice. I will focus on replacing the knob onto the original spindle I think.
Fred what do you mean when you say the stock handle will not be a long lasting part on the reel? Are they prone to failing? Or will I want to change out?
Aftermarket upgraded handles are made out of SS -- the blade and the knob spindle.
They are machined to perfection with no slop.
No chromed over brass, or brass peened holder -- all SS with no tolerance or shifting -- SS keeper lock screw --and with a shark on the North end of your outfit -- any weak link will become readily apparent.
And a mansized handle knob that is ergonomically comfortable for more torque.
I know some folks catch sharks with fly rods -- so it is always the Angler's decision.
Best,
Fred
Hello Clinton, sorry I just saw your posting, maybe it isn't too late.
Mike made a nice press to remove the knobs, it doesn't appear to be too complicated to make, but might not be worth it if you're only doing one. So I will show you my method as well, but only if I find mine.
Here is Mike's:
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=13124.msg130901#msg130901
Sal
That's a good little write up there alto! I was thinking of drilling it out
Here is how I did mine, but you'll need a press though.
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=14250.msg145425#msg145425
Sal
Wow Sal that works so well mate thanks for those quality videos that I think a lot of senator guys need to see!!! I thought about the press but reading some posts about guys breaking their knobs put me off a little. My new one is in good condition no cracks so I'm not as scared now. The only thing that is bugging me is that my new handle has the bigger style oil hole and my old one had the small hole. What is the difference between the two? And does anybody have a spare big hole cap/plug to go into the knob that they could part with?