Please post your questions about the chronological history of this reel, or your reel, in this post.
This is one of the toughest model to add to a Penn collection. The Model 170 was plain and boring. That caused it to sell for a short time and not sell well in that time. Funny thing about bad sales and boredom, it makes for a Hot Collectible because the model winds up being scarce and hard to find in a collector market seventy years down the road from it production times.
Look for Model 170 at garage sales and flea markets. It is the kind of reels that get thrown in bucket and forgotten about.
Scan from the 1939 catalog;
(http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo244/m3040c/Penn%20Light%20Tackle%20Reel%20Model%20170/Figure%20157%20790%20x%20620_zps8h5kkvil.jpg)
Last seen in the 1941 catalog. The black sheep of the Light Tackle reels, this reel offers very little in features.
(http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo244/m3040c/Penn%20Light%20Tackle%20Reel%20Model%20170/DSC00968676x449_zps2582415d.jpg)
The head plate is stippled;
(http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo244/m3040c/Penn%20Light%20Tackle%20Reel%20Model%20170/1940PennLightTackleReel--logo002676x507_zps175ff306.jpg)
The tail plate is a picture plate;
(http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo244/m3040c/Penn%20Light%20Tackle%20Reel%20Model%20170/1940PennLightTackleModel170009676x507_zps23f3a3a7.jpg)
The stand on a Model 170 is open and should be stamped with the line test and capacity in order to be correct for the model. All I have seen have this stand;
(http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo244/m3040c/Penn%20Light%20Tackle%20Reel%20Model%20170/DSC00974%20676%20x%20449_zpsh8ulsdye.jpg)
So keep your eyes open for the Model 170, it is a Penn prize.
And no sooner did you write this than I owned one! A deal on the auction site! A bargain for this reel. Picture is from Ebay, I'll have it next week! I'll post more pics next week.
Congrats on the 170. Funny when this happens.
Nice work Sid!
I had my eye on one that ended up slippimg by me.
I finally got around to working with my 170 and have taken some photos (which is what I do). Mike's green book says that the '39 and '40 models should sell for about the same thing, the '41 model could be worth about $50 more. That means that someone can tell the difference between them. I cannot. I'm interested in how to date this reel, and what that date might be. I posted yesterday about my Anglesea 47, also produced between '39 and '41, and mentioned I would be surprised if anyone could tell the difference between the years. I would have said the same about this model if I hadn't seen that info in Mike's green book. Here she is, in all her glory
(http://alantani.com/gallery/14/15180_29_06_16_4_04_32_14754583.jpeg)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/14/15180_29_06_16_4_04_31_147531949.jpeg)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/14/15180_29_06_16_4_04_44_14762652.jpeg)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/14/15180_29_06_16_4_04_41_147611829.jpeg)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/14/15180_29_06_16_4_04_40_14760511.jpeg)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/14/15180_29_06_16_4_04_38_147592102.jpeg)
So what are the differences between the '39, '40 and '41 production years? Anyone?
Thanks.
Sid
Sid,
I'm getting Jealous. You better hold onto that one. Its a Trophy! ;)
Thanks Daron. I'll be selling some of my reels on eBay soon (the first is actually already listed). Not this one. Or the Anglesea I posted yesterday. I've become more discriminating in my collecting taste, and some that I bought long ago are not to be mine much longer. That will raise funds to buy more of what I want, and satisfy my wife's desire that I thin out the herd. We're moving soon, the fewer reels I have to pack and move, the better. Of 90 or so reels in my collection, I probably am only attached to less than half. Some will be easy to part with. Those will be the ones I will start with.
Sid
Nice score there Sid!
I am not quite sure how to tell the difference. Mike's book states that these small reels had stippled headplates in 1940, and the no. 08 catalog clearly shows this to be the case. I am not sure about the 1939 model though, I suspect all models for all years had this feature. I know the name changed in 1941 from "Light Tackle Casting Reel" to "Universal Free Spool".
Also, I think your reel should have a spool with a drilled arbor.
I don't think these small reels ever had the old model logo (which, for instance changes in the Coronado, and others, in the 1940).
Seems like the handle knobs and counterweight stayed the same throughout their 3 year production period too.
Maybe Mike has an answer for you?
I did just recieve my favorite catalog... a number 08, ca. 1940.. in the mail today.
QuoteMike's green book says that the '39 and '40 models should sell for about the same thing, the '41 model could be worth about $50 more.
Actually, the Green book drops the top price of a 1941 Model 170. Don't know why that happened. All Model 170's that I have ever seen are the same except for handle knob color variations. The spools should be drilled according to the catalogs; but, the catalog probably used the same drawing from 1939 to 1941. I own two Model 170's, one has the same color knob as Sid's reel and the other has a dark brown knob. One of mine has the drilled spool and the other has the non-numbered spool with the line tie off pin.
The longer you collect Penn reels, the more you learn that hard fast specific build styles are variable rather than exact.
Hi all, An old thread, but I am pleased to see some information on this particular reel.
I have just purchased a 170, certainly not mint, but It should arrive in the next 4-5 days,
So I will add a photo of it here.
Regards
Col
Looking forward to your pictures
Ted
This one arrived today, hope the photo shows it up ok.
Col
Ok, they didn't come out to bad.
I don't know too much about this reel, apart from what I've read above.
It will just sit there at the minute, as my first project is stripping down the Shultz Ambrose trade reel.
Col
QuoteThis one arrived today, hope the photo shows it up ok.
The photos are great. Glad to see the pinned spool. The catalogs show a drilled spool; but, I have seen them both ways.
Col,
Considering that your spool appears to be in pretty good shape I'd consider the possibility of finding a donor reel or two for a new handle, cross bars and spool end caps.... and maybe a stand, but that'll be a tougher find. You could improve the value of this reel quite a bit with some better chrome - but be careful that all chromed parts appear to be similar in condition if you do this.
Hi sdlehr,
Actually, a second one will arrive in the next few day by lucky chance.
So I will look at swapping things over. I was actually going to wait till it arrived and post about doing this.
Col
Col,
We all have different methods, beliefs, ideas about restoring a reel, but there's no way I would re-chrome this or any historical reel restoration.
The 170 is one of the hardest production reels to find in my opinion. I have seen about 5 or 6 for sale on Ebay (and I live on Ebay) in the past 10 years. To give you an idea, I have seen as many Model F's in the 10 years and that wasn't a production reel. The 170 was a reel that was just too close to other reels like the 165 (fellow knucklebuster) so it fell to the wayside after a very short run (forgot the dates-GET Mike's books).
Better condition would obviously be better but original is the best. Shine it up or wipe it off and shelf it. You have 2 of them!!!! :o
Best
Dom
Just to be clear, I wasn't suggesting you rechrome anything, I would not ever do that on a collectible reel. I was suggesting you swap used parts.
Sid,
I must've been seeing things... I thought I saw something about a thin layer of rechroming in your post but I guess my mind is playing tricks on me.
Yeah, no rechroming historical Penn reels or the boogie man will get you. Sorry if I miss understood you.
As for parts with patina vs shiny parts.... as long as they're era correct I'm good with it but yes, it's nice to be able to match things up but not always possible. The most important thing is era correctness in my opinion,
Dom
Hi Guy's, I understand the not to re chrome part.
Yes, surprisingly I now have 2 170's !! It arrived today and it unexpectedly is in far better condition than the first one I got.
The chrome bars etc are in much better condition, but the spool on the first one is far better condition than the new one.
I actually got the second one, purely because of the responses I got on how hard it was to find and only paid $60 which I thought wasnt to bad considering it's difficulty to find and thought I would offer it up to another
collector because of this, it was just by chance this one appeared and I did a deal with a couple of other reels and secured the new 170.
I was going to ask about the "ethics" of making one with the better appearance out of parts from both, it looks like swapping the spool from the first will leave me with a pretty decent looking 170. I actually put a post up on Orca about it, that's when I couldn't figure out how to post photo's here and someone messaged me back and was super interested in the second 170, I feel a bit bad I am going to swap out the spools, but, maybe he wont be interested in it with all the chrome loss.
Anyway, I hope I wasn't driving prices up by paying that much........
Here is a photo of the two, new one today on the right.
That was me you were talking to on Orca. Let me know what you want to do
Hey, How's things,
Yeah, the second one arrived, I was shocked at how better condition it was in.
As per above, I'm going to clean both reels, put the first "better spool" on the new one that arrived, then I'll send you a
Photo of the other one ( first one I got).
Just got 2-3 reels to strip and clean over the next coming days then I'll get on with it.
If the 170 isn't to your liking, that's no prob's at all, at least I can let you view it and you can choose.
Cheers
Col
Sounds good
An old and crusty 170 is still a 170. Tough to find reel.
Dom
Dom, I did say this
Quote from: sdlehr on November 12, 2018, 06:34:39 PM
You could improve the value of this reel quite a bit with some better chrome -
Which, making assumptions, could mean a few things. Maybe that's not so correct for a 170, as rare as they are.
We're good, bro'.
I realized what you meant after I read it a couple of times. As you know, any time you can upgrade a reel with original parts in better shape or shine up the chrome that exists it's a good thing in my opinion. However, that's as far as I go.
You are definitely correct in saying all corrosion must go. I subscribe to that mentality and strive to remove all corrosion off all my reels... now where do I get the time, lol. I'd say I have worked on around 70% of the reels in my collection and will continue as it's very important to get rid of that stuff.
Have fun with those new reels, Col
Dom
Swapping parts is no different than swapping boxes. Somehow it just doesn't seem right to me and will confuse succeeding generations.
-steve
Steve,
I hear where your coming from there !
There's an argument for "original" as you are suggesting, hence why I was originally unsure if it was the done thing.
Maybe that's just me. I'll get on to the 170's as soon as I finish with the soak on my Silverbeach, since I was only talking swapping out
the spool, I might just see how it cleans up and I'm inclined to leave them as they are.
There like chalk and cheese, the first one, no corrosion but pure wear, the second is the opposite, minor bits of corrosion, but
hardly any chrome loss or wear at all.
Cheers.
Col
Steve,
I have to disagree with ya on this one, but I guess it's all up to the owner to decide. I'm not sure how we would confuse future generations with era correct parts, regardless of the patina.
No different than swapping boxes?? If said box is era correct what's the problem with swapping boxes?
Swapping incorrect years of boxes is a NO-NO but why not era correct boxes matching up to the same era's reel. To me that's called a "rescue."
To each his own I suppose, however you may not wanna buy any reels from me when I sell them as a bunch have been "painstakingly" restores to era correct including screws and screw heads. If you don't know what to look for in terms of restoration than I would suggest cleaning it and shelving it.
Now, with two exact same 170's that are within two years of age and no adjustments with the exception of the pinned spool vs hole in the arbor I say improve that reel or enjoy what you have. For me, I'm restoring it all day, every day.
Best,
Dom
Points taken.
I avoid boxes like the plague and am trying to abuse and destroy all my reels so the successors can just shovel it all into the trash instead of having to wonder what to do with it :)
-steve
I've been reading this thread all along...and what baffles me is...how in the world do you find two of these things at once? I can't even find a piece of one. Way ta go milne! 8)
Mo65, Once I started to find out different facts about Penn on here, I realised how hard they are to obtain.
I guess I've been lucky to find them. I am armed with a little more knowledge now, thanks to this site, and the excellent replies
and information given out here which is appreciated.
As mentioned, I will certainly be jumping on Mike's book when it becomes available again.
I just love these pre war reels !!!
Col
One thing that Dom touched upon but I haven't really seen addressed is that there are sometimes subtle differences between similar parts from year to year. Screw head sizes and shapes change, tie-off posts or holes in spool arbors change position, etc. I have been known to mic some parts prior to replacement/substitution to be sure I was replacing like for like - and you almost have to do that sometimes. One thing I've never seen mentioned (that I can recall) is how the hole in the arbor changed position from 1933 on - it started closer to one end and over the years moved its way towards the middle. It doesn't just have to fit and look right, it has to be original to substitute parts properly.
ONe of the parts that changed the most (and is probably least known) is the set screw for the handle nut. The threads were always the same, but the head of the screw changed size and shape multiple times over the years. I must have about four different size replacements in my parts bin....
QuoteONe of the parts that changed the most (and is probably least known) is the set screw for the handle nut. The threads were always the same, but the head of the screw changed size and shape multiple times over the years. I must have about four different size replacements in my parts bin....
That is true and it falls into one of those, ""Who Cares"" categories. I feel the screw changed because that single screw is the same no matter what reel you have. The set screw on a Penn 180 is the same set screw on a Penn 16/0. Vintage I feel may also have something to do with the variance.