Post questions about this reel in this thread
This reel was recently gifted to me. I've just had a chance to examine it more closely, and it's got some interesting features. I'm interested in dating it. It's a mostly non-numbered reel of the second generation configuration. The only numbered part on the outside is the right side bushing. I don't know if it's original. If it is, that's significant in assigning date of production, but confusing. I haven't done anything with it yet. I plan to do lots. Here it is at first glance. It's got the newer, round harness lugs.
(http://i1379.photobucket.com/albums/ah127/sdlehr/Reel%20No_54%20Penn%20Senator%20115%209_0/DSC_8208_zpsjhmobm3n.jpg) (http://s1379.photobucket.com/user/sdlehr/media/Reel%20No_54%20Penn%20Senator%20115%209_0/DSC_8208_zpsjhmobm3n.jpg.html)
(http://i1379.photobucket.com/albums/ah127/sdlehr/Reel%20No_54%20Penn%20Senator%20115%209_0/DSC_8210_zpskgupjok9.jpg) (http://s1379.photobucket.com/user/sdlehr/media/Reel%20No_54%20Penn%20Senator%20115%209_0/DSC_8210_zpskgupjok9.jpg.html)
Upon closer inspection, the surface of the spool flanges look different, and the spool arbor has no chrome. We've seen this here before. This is another of the spools with the German silver flanges that I seem to be finding. If I've been doing this less than a year and have found three so far, I'm sure they are in your collection somewhere. I'm not that talented and these can't be that scarce.
(http://i1379.photobucket.com/albums/ah127/sdlehr/Reel%20No_54%20Penn%20Senator%20115%209_0/DSC_8212_zpsbbhaqzbz.jpg) (http://s1379.photobucket.com/user/sdlehr/media/Reel%20No_54%20Penn%20Senator%20115%209_0/DSC_8212_zpsbbhaqzbz.jpg.html)
(http://i1379.photobucket.com/albums/ah127/sdlehr/Reel%20No_54%20Penn%20Senator%20115%209_0/DSC_8213_zpsjwnmdlwb.jpg) (http://s1379.photobucket.com/user/sdlehr/media/Reel%20No_54%20Penn%20Senator%20115%209_0/DSC_8213_zpsjwnmdlwb.jpg.html)
(http://i1379.photobucket.com/albums/ah127/sdlehr/Reel%20No_54%20Penn%20Senator%20115%209_0/DSC_8214_zpsqd49kkw1.jpg) (http://s1379.photobucket.com/user/sdlehr/media/Reel%20No_54%20Penn%20Senator%20115%209_0/DSC_8214_zpsqd49kkw1.jpg.html)
(http://i1379.photobucket.com/albums/ah127/sdlehr/Reel%20No_54%20Penn%20Senator%20115%209_0/DSC_8215_zpshwn859dp.jpg) (http://s1379.photobucket.com/user/sdlehr/media/Reel%20No_54%20Penn%20Senator%20115%209_0/DSC_8215_zpshwn859dp.jpg.html)
Here's the typical look of these German silver flanges;
(http://i1379.photobucket.com/albums/ah127/sdlehr/Reel%20No_54%20Penn%20Senator%20115%209_0/DSC_8216_zpsi54rkyrk.jpg) (http://s1379.photobucket.com/user/sdlehr/media/Reel%20No_54%20Penn%20Senator%20115%209_0/DSC_8216_zpsi54rkyrk.jpg.html)
The arbors of these spools look the same, and so far all the ones I have found (3 now) have posts, not drilled arbors. This one has been abused, but when I finish cleaning it will not show signs of having been chromed at any point
(http://i1379.photobucket.com/albums/ah127/sdlehr/Reel%20No_54%20Penn%20Senator%20115%209_0/DSC_8217_zpsxfvktu0b.jpg) (http://s1379.photobucket.com/user/sdlehr/media/Reel%20No_54%20Penn%20Senator%20115%209_0/DSC_8217_zpsxfvktu0b.jpg.html)
It's got the tall counterweight with the coin-edge
(http://i1379.photobucket.com/albums/ah127/sdlehr/Reel%20No_54%20Penn%20Senator%20115%209_0/DSC_8225_zpsrfzxmfoy.jpg) (http://s1379.photobucket.com/user/sdlehr/media/Reel%20No_54%20Penn%20Senator%20115%209_0/DSC_8225_zpsrfzxmfoy.jpg.html)
The biggest surprise was that it came with a rosewood torpedo handle. I've seen these on Delmar 285's, on Seagate 126's, on a Senator 115, and I've heard they can be found on early 1940's Senator 116's and 116A's (12/0 and 10/0). I'm not sure if this handle has been found on a 6/0 reel before.
(http://i1379.photobucket.com/albums/ah127/sdlehr/Reel%20No_54%20Penn%20Senator%20115%209_0/DSC_8219_zpsqiujovwy.jpg) (http://s1379.photobucket.com/user/sdlehr/media/Reel%20No_54%20Penn%20Senator%20115%209_0/DSC_8219_zpsqiujovwy.jpg.html)
I'm doing some work on the reel today - general clean-up and polishing, and I'm going to make those spool flanges shine. I'll post pictures when I'm done, but probably in the Antiques/collectibles folder. I'll also post pics of the guts after I get inside.
So here are my thoughts, and someone can tell me if I'm on track. The counterweight is mid-late thirties, the right side plate is 40's (but when? Is this a pre-war 2nd gen?), the spools of this type are often seen from during and after WWII. The rosewood handle is a pre-'39 feature in the Delmars and Senators (I think). So this reel seems to be all over the place for me. I'm sure I'm overcomplicating things, so I'm eager to hear from the folks that know this stuff best.
Sid
Sid, 114 & 115 handles are the same thing. Both use the same bridge sleeve. Rudy
Quote from: RowdyW on April 17, 2016, 07:57:32 PM
Sid, 114 & 115 handles are the same thing. Both use the same bridge sleeve. Rudy
Thanks Rudy. I had thought so, went to a spare 115 handle I had (or so I thought), but must have picked up something else, because I see that what you say is right now, but whatever I had picked up didn't fit. I had my SS 113 sleeve on the bench, I must have picked that up thinking it was the 114 sleeve.... I don't know what I did, they're not the same size or color. Brain fart time, I guess.
I'm quite sure that the drag star and stand are also German silver on this reel. I'll post up picks soon. The key to recognizing these German silver components (so far, for me) has been that there is no green corrosion on any of these. This spool was pitted in places, but no verdigris was anywhere. That's why I think the stand and star are G silver - same deal.
Here's pics
(http://i1379.photobucket.com/albums/ah127/sdlehr/Reel%20No_54%20Penn%20Senator%20115%209_0/DSC_8229_zpsdvyabum7.jpg) (http://s1379.photobucket.com/user/sdlehr/media/Reel%20No_54%20Penn%20Senator%20115%209_0/DSC_8229_zpsdvyabum7.jpg.html)
I don't think there's anything else special about this reel. Nothing numbered inside, steel main and pinion. I don't think that will help with the dating any.
(http://i1379.photobucket.com/albums/ah127/sdlehr/Reel%20No_54%20Penn%20Senator%20115%209_0/DSC_8230_zpsnc61brbj.jpg) (http://s1379.photobucket.com/user/sdlehr/media/Reel%20No_54%20Penn%20Senator%20115%209_0/DSC_8230_zpsnc61brbj.jpg.html)
I mentioned that the spool was pitted. I had to go down to 220 grit paper to get the pitting out, then went up to 2000 to finish it up. The arbor still needs a little help... here was what it looked like after the 220 - a surface similar to the chromed bronze one-piece spools... and much less like a Vom Hofe and much more Penn-looking
(http://i1379.photobucket.com/albums/ah127/sdlehr/Reel%20No_54%20Penn%20Senator%20115%209_0/DSC_8226_zpsgjqlty8l.jpg) (http://s1379.photobucket.com/user/sdlehr/media/Reel%20No_54%20Penn%20Senator%20115%209_0/DSC_8226_zpsgjqlty8l.jpg.html)
I lost the freaking AR spring some time during the cleaning. Until I can get another from Scotts this baby is going to sit partially-assembled, unless I can find one locally.
Here's what I was able to do with the spool
(http://i1379.photobucket.com/albums/ah127/sdlehr/Reel%20No_54%20Penn%20Senator%20115%209_0/DSC_8236_zpsplyauvpw.jpg) (http://s1379.photobucket.com/user/sdlehr/media/Reel%20No_54%20Penn%20Senator%20115%209_0/DSC_8236_zpsplyauvpw.jpg.html)
(http://i1379.photobucket.com/albums/ah127/sdlehr/Reel%20No_54%20Penn%20Senator%20115%209_0/DSC_8235_zpss677gbwv.jpg) (http://s1379.photobucket.com/user/sdlehr/media/Reel%20No_54%20Penn%20Senator%20115%209_0/DSC_8235_zpss677gbwv.jpg.html)
No green stuff. It was all washed with vinegar.
Yes, Rudy, this is the reel you gave me a week or two ago. I should have looked at it more closely then. But then you might not have wanted to give it to me :D (For anyone wondering, I've privately offered to give this back to Rudy if he wants it back).
I'll easily believe there was green crud on the brass spool arbor, on the rings and posts, and screw heads too, they're all brass. The star, stand and spool will be a harder sell. The handle arm looks like it may also be German silver, but I'm not sure about anything but the spool yet. Here's the handle, and it clearly shows chrome missing, but underneath is not brass (which is why these don't turn green when the chrome comes off). the jury is still out on this handle arm, though...
(http://i1379.photobucket.com/albums/ah127/sdlehr/Reel%20No_54%20Penn%20Senator%20115%209_0/DSC_8238.NEF_zps5beo3mjj.jpg) (http://s1379.photobucket.com/user/sdlehr/media/Reel%20No_54%20Penn%20Senator%20115%209_0/DSC_8238.NEF_zps5beo3mjj.jpg.html)
I got myself a 114 in average condition...the first photo shows what it looked like on arrival. I tore it down and broke out the elbow grease, changed the asbestos 3-stack to a greased carbon fiber 5-stack, added a new under gear spacer, and used a stainless steel yoke. This is the first Penn I've acquired that had all the power I'd ever need in stock form. It's big and bulky, but there is no way 20-25lbs. of drag could ever hurt this thing. 8)
Mo: what are you going to fish with that reel/114? Fresh or Salt.
Joe
Nice job, Mike --
You know your way around a Penn.
Best,
Fred
Mo, it looks like you will be able to go after any catfish in the world. Maybe someday try it out on a Wells Catfish. Rudy
Nice job on the restoration Mo. It looks like a completely different reel. Two thumbs up my friend !!
Thanks fellas! The mechanics inside turned out really well too. The main is a nice low mileage steel gear...and the stock sleeve was nice and tight on the handle connection. I found a cool way to shim the sleeve to reduce that lateral play that everyone hates. I actually needed 8 thousandths to fill the gap...but I used a 5 thousandths shim and bent it like a wave washer. It seemed to hold the shape well enough to keep the sleeve pushed against the pin...so no annoying "klunk" in the handle...but still allowing 3 thousandths play for swell from heat! If you're one of those guys who worries about getting the sleeve to tight...but still wants a solid feel...ya might wanna pursue this. 8)
Quote from: Reel 224 on February 28, 2017, 08:00:27 PM
Mo: what are you going to fish with that reel/114? Fresh or Salt.
I'd love to fish the salt again some time...it's been years. If it was trolling this reel would definitely accompany me. I thought about toting it down to the dam and scare all the locals...hee hee! It would be a trophy hunter for sure! ;)
This is my first post here and I wanted to say hello and introduce myself. I have been "acquiring" fly reels for years and recently started doing the same with others. I was at a yard sale and I picked this senator up for $10 With a rod. The only issue that it has is the handle is bent. I would really appreciate any info on mfg date. I am guessing late 60s but have no idea. Thanks
Welcome Tbrom, that sure is a nice 6/0 and only $10 ? WOW! Rudy
TB that was a steal....good job on picking that up.....based on the part numbers present on the reel, we can only state it was built after 1950....that is basically when Penn started using part numbers on all the parts......if you had any paper work like a catalogue we could pin point the year.....if you could show us a picture of the bend in the handle we might be able to provide a solution......Bill
Welcome T.
Nice reel.
Hmmm, a 6/0 Senator as a fly reel? Sure it's nota tad heavy?
Gfish
Quote from: Gfish on July 08, 2017, 09:58:35 PM
Hmmm, a 6/0 Senator as a fly reel? Sure it's nota tad heavy?
Gfish
Now this is where I should say you have never seen the fish I catch.
Quote from: TARFU on July 08, 2017, 07:55:42 PM
TB that was a steal....good job on picking that up.....based on the part numbers present on the reel, we can only state it was built after 1950....that is basically when Penn started using part numbers on all the parts......if you had any paper work like a catalogue we could pin point the year.....if you could show us a picture of the bend in the handle we might be able to provide a solution......Bill
I figured the date would be tough to narrow. I know an approximate date from the original owner. He actually was unsure. Here are a couple pics of the handle.
It can probably be straightened in a padded vise & padded pliers or a soft mallet AFTER it is removed from the reel. Rudy
The way that handle is bent. I say you need to look for a new one.
Its right on the spindle.
Rudy says yes, Daron says no, I'm going to ride the fence and say you'll only find out by trying.... you'll probably disrupt the plating bending it back, but I'd put it in a wood-padded vice and give it a shot; it's not of any use as it is.... but be prepared to buy a new one, as it's likely the peen will be damaged.... if you're really industrious you can try re-peening it...
Sid
Quote from: sdlehr on July 09, 2017, 01:59:00 PM
Rudy says yes, Daron says no, I'm going to ride the fence and say you'll only find out by trying....
Sid
That is always the case with everything we do here.
Tbrom, you should be able to do it, but it isn't as easy as it looks. What has happened the peened brass shaft has twisted a little, getting the handle shaft straight as it was doesn't solve the problem, you will still need to peen back tight or the shaft will be too loose.
Here is why it isn't an easy job as it looks. There is about 1/4" of space from the tip of the shaft to the handle knob, unless you remove the knob you will have a hard time getting the shaft tight.
Here are some idea on how to remove the knob, so you could rest the tip of the shaft on a piece of wood while you peen the back side.:
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=13124.msg130901#msg130901
I have a 1 ton press and have had succes using it as well, but not on knobs for larger reels, as the 10/0 and up.
If you're not concerned on looks, drill out the oil port from the knob, rest a metal scrap on the tip of the shaft and peen the back side. This could be a bolt of the correct size, or anything you have laying around, make sure it isn't too long.
If you do not wish to deal with all of the above, get yourself a replacement, those are not that costly. With that said, we like to fix things around here :)
Good luck!
Sal
Thanks for the info. I like to fix things as well and love the challenge. The shaft is already loose and is going to need tightened. If I do need to replace the entire handle what should I expect to pay? I have looked on the auction site and they vary wildly. I would like to keep the amber or butterscotch handle color. Again thank you all for your wealth of knowledge. I fear this could be the start of another addictive hobbie.
I made an oak sandwich and at first tried to just muscle it back in a vice. A little improvement but not what I wanted. I then taped the handle and hit it with a heavy hammer. It is pretty good I did leave a little scar on the inside but it is better than it was. Now to try and peen the handle as Alto said.
Quote from: Alto Mare on July 09, 2017, 02:43:21 PM
Quote from: sdlehr on July 09, 2017, 01:59:00 PM
Rudy says yes, Daron says no, I'm going to ride the fence and say you'll only find out by trying....
Sid
That is always the case with everything we do here.
Tbrom, you should be able to do it, but it isn't as easy as it looks. What has happened the peened brass shaft has twisted a little, getting the handle shaft straight as it was doesn't solve the problem, you will still need to peen back tight or the shaft will be too loose.
Here is why it isn't an easy job as it looks. There is about 1/4" of space from the tip of the shaft to the handle knob, unless you remove the knob you will have a hard time getting the shaft tight.
Here are some idea on how to remove the knob, so you could rest the tip of the shaft on a piece of wood while you peen the back side.:
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=13124.msg130901#msg130901
I have a 1 ton press and have had succes using it as well, but not on knobs for larger reels, as the 10/0 and up.
If you're not concerned on looks, drill out the oil port from the knob, rest a metal scrap on the tip of the shaft and peen the back side. This could be a bolt of the correct size, or anything you have laying around, make sure it isn't too long.
If you do not wish to deal with all of the above, get yourself a replacement, those are not that costly. With that said, we like to fix things around here :)
Good luck!
Sal
This black 114 caught my eye and couldn't keep myself from pulling the trigger. I'm a huge fan of the early 50's 6/0 with cb handle. This model also has outer drag access.
Ted
Yes sir...that's a dandy Ted! 8)
Gorgeous!
Beautiful, looks new
Nice. The 6/0's get overlooked around here.