Hi all,
I've got a couple of Mitchell spinning reels that are popular with surf fishermen here on the east coast (302, 402).
These things have a single teflon(?) drag washer. Does anyone know if I can replace this with a greased carbon matrix washer for improved performance?
Scott
absolutely! measure this one out and and check with your local shop for drag washers and cal's grease. or send me a pm with your address and i'll send some out to you. here's the list for comparison.
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=21.0
Alan,
I know you don't often post spinner info, I mean...they're upside down and all, but I do have one I've been keeping on the water for over 40 years. I guess I'm just a sentimental slob. The reel is a Mitchell 301. Of course...it has a "story"...This reel, and the "Gulfstream" fiberglass rod is the combo my Dad bought for me when I was a kid. We were heading to Nova Scotia for Salmon fishing. Through the years, I've kept it in use. Have replaced a few parts, etc...but it's still catching fish. I live in Florida. These days, the reel is loaded the reel with 20# test line. Offshore, it presents no issues. What I've been noticing however...is that inshore ( I recently joined the "plastic Navy")...when I'm using liteweight lures, the line stacks up loosely on the bottom of the spool on retreive...making kind of a "cone". This is especially prevalent when my retrieve is done with very little resistance, say due to wind, drift, or currents. Subsequent casts...sometimes will throw off loops of the line from the bottom of this "cone",which jump over the other line, and create a mess..!!
I'm wondering if I'm using too light of a lure for the 20# Ande line...?? Or to put that in reverse....If I'm going to throw liteweight lures, do I need to re-spool with lighter line for the "inshore game" around here. ???
Thanks for your thoughts...
Just my 2 cents..
For the lighter inshore stuff I would drop down to something in 12 - 15 # class line. Look for a mono diameter of around .015. I would also change to a softer mono. Ande has a reputation of being a little stiff. You can run 6' of 20# test for an abraision leader, I'd go with fluorocarbon.
I believe the 302's could use the Penn 140 size drag, not sure if the 402 is the same or not.
Dawn
Smoooth Drag
dawn, that is absolutely correct. the mitchel 302 uses four of the #6-155 penn ht 100 drag washers. it's funny, i worked on one just this last friday night. it was missing a shear pin and i just happened to have one!!!!!!!!!!
Quote from: qcguy4198 on January 17, 2010, 11:42:45 AM
Alan, I'm wondering if I'm using too light of a lure for the 20# Ande line...?? Or to put that in reverse....If I'm going to throw liteweight lures, do I need to re-spool with lighter line for the "inshore game" around here. ??? Thanks for your thoughts...
the line should lay a little flatter and cast a little better. the ande has way too much memory. i'd start looking around for a better casting line. obviously, berkeley big game is off the list as well! ;D
Thanks Alan...
So guys, what are the softer, "better casting" mono lines out there...????
I've never used any of the braid type products...What about Fire Line, or Power Pro, how are they.??
This Yak-fishing is a whole new game. !!
hey qcguy4198,
braided and spectra lines are great for specific applications. Surf fishing where you are not worried about the line coming in contact with rocky structure should be good. The softest feel that I have fished with comes from Japan and is know an PE line. Daiwa seems to be the most accessible here in the US. I've fished with firewire, JB, Izorline, power pro and a couple of other. They are all descent, but use predominently power pro because I got a great deal on some old-new stock and the likes just don't deteriorate like mono.
For mono, one of the softest lines I've played with was gamma. I believe cabelas also advertise a long distance mono, but I haven't tried it.
another thing you can do is try soaking the line in fresh water before fishing. Some lines get softer if wet. Greased carbon drags usually are not affected by this as long as you re-grease the drags once and a while.
Good luck.
Momoi and Sufix are popular mono with the East Coast casting crowd.
Hi, new to the site but not to fishing. Most of my fishing is in the surf,on spinning gear. tried out jinkai line this season & It worked out great
It is much thinner than ande. The 20lb looks like 12or 15. I think its a copolymer. Rich
Apologies for being off the original topic... Alan, just delete this if it's of no value.
G'day CQguy,
I know this isn't a general fishing forum but in relation to your casting problems, thought you might like some info on 'braid'.
Interesting the differences in fishing styles in different countries. Here in Australia now, lure fishing is almost exclusively the domain of gel spun polyethylene lines (braid and fused braid). The finer diameter for a given breaking strain... along with the engineering improvement of spin reels... has led to the 'downsizing' of outfits. Where once a person may have used a big Penn Spinfisher loaded with 20# or 30# mono, you'll now see 3000 or 4000 size spin reels loaded with braid.
This makes spinning and luring a lot more fun... you can cast all day without your arms wanting to drop off.
The other advantages of gel spun (GSP) lines in this style of fishing are the lack of stretch, providing the ability to feel everything a lure is doing... the ideal is to be able to feel a fish breathe on it; and fine diameter and suppleness of lines allowing effective casting of much smaller lures.
I'm lucky enough to have a work association with a fishing line manufacturer so have a reasonable (if non-technical) insight into the ins and outs of the stuff. The PE mentioned in one of the posts is another generic term for the whole bunch of GSP lines.
If you read about Spectra and Dyneema, they are merely the trade names of the only 2 companies who manufacture GSP fibres... the characteristics of each are very similar. All 'braid' manufacturers, whether in Japan, USA, Australia or anywhere else, ultimately source their fibres from either of these companies, before braiding or fusing it.
The main differences between a braided GSP line (like Power Pro) or fused GSP line (like Fireline) are obviously related to the manufacturing process. They result in the fused lines being generally stiffer (for which reason they are often preferred in Australia for ultra light line applications where they can be easier to handle), as well as being thicker for a given breaking strain than braided forms. Incidentally, Berkley's thermal fusing is a proprietary process... Stren Microfuse being another of their brands... so these lines are much more different to braided lines than the braided lines are to each other.
Relatively few sportsfishermen in Australia use fused GSP line for spinning regularly in breaking strains over about 20#... it starts to feel like fencing wire. Most will generally use a braided GSP line and even in light breaking strains, it is probably used by the majority of GSP converts.
There was a time not too long ago when it was considered that braided lines were unsuitable for spin reels because of line twist. This attitude has changed... firstly because new generation reels are better able to manage line twist and secondly, because when braided GSP twists it doesn't create nearly the headaches of twist in mono.
One thing to be careful of though when considering putting GSP on your spin reel is that a lot of the new generation of spin reel features (spool profiles, line lay control for example) have evolved to deal with some inherent problems of braid. The very limpness of braid that makes it great for spinning, can also see it cause casting problems with loops falling off the spool, getting caught around runners when casting and so on.
Cheers, BigT
tony, you worry too much .... ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Quote from: qcguy4198 on January 17, 2010, 11:42:45 AM
Alan,
I know you don't often post spinner info, I mean...they're upside down and all, but I do have one I've been keeping on the water for over 40 years. I guess I'm just a sentimental slob. The reel is a Mitchell 301. Of course...it has a "story"...This reel, and the "Gulfstream" fiberglass rod is the combo my Dad bought for me when I was a kid. We were heading to Nova Scotia for Salmon fishing. Through the years, I've kept it in use. Have replaced a few parts, etc...but it's still catching fish. I live in Florida. These days, the reel is loaded the reel with 20# test line. Offshore, it presents no issues. What I've been noticing however...is that inshore ( I recently joined the "plastic Navy")...when I'm using liteweight lures, the line stacks up loosely on the bottom of the spool on retreive...making kind of a "cone". This is especially prevalent when my retrieve is done with very little resistance, say due to wind, drift, or currents. Subsequent casts...sometimes will throw off loops of the line from the bottom of this "cone",which jump over the other line, and create a mess..!!
I'm wondering if I'm using too light of a lure for the 20# Ande line...?? Or to put that in reverse....If I'm going to throw liteweight lures, do I need to re-spool with lighter line for the "inshore game" around here. ???
Thanks for your thoughts...
QCGUY,
The 300 series Mitchells are very near and dear to me and no doubt to a lot of people as they made something like 14 million of them. Growing up in Nor Cal, my dad and I caught a ton of strippers in the 8-20# range with them. I probably have close to a 100 300's in just parts from fighting strippers in the 25-30# range and Salmon back in the day between Red Bluff and Redding. I even took them to Baja early in my Mexico days. Only did that once though as I came back with a bag full of parts.
I left CA 17 years ago because of the politics and economy but I truly do miss strippers. Though it is of a small consolation, I have plenty of the salmonid species to tangle with here in the intermountain west. I still go to CA about every other month and occasionally have an opportunity to fish for strippers but I do miss it.
As an FYI if you are interested, I replace the 81 103 Teflon washers with the Penn 6-965 drag washers in my 300's and 400's that I use for river browns, small salmon and a-run steelhead. For big b-run steelhead and salmon I fish 965 Internationals and Squidders.
If I'm going to throw liteweight lures, do I need to re-spool with lighter line for the "inshore game" around here. Huh
Thanks for your thoughts...
when I was growing up the guy who taught Me to fish was a chem engineer for Garcia Mitchel /Conlon in Costa Mesa Calif He used spinning reels for surface fishing He used 302's and its high speed varant the # escapes My mind right now and Langley spinators 870's
he used Garcia Royal bonel its put out by somebody else now its a very limp line
He told me it was designed for the 302
if you can find some give it a try
Quote from: Walter_Lars on April 11, 2010, 06:25:52 AM
If I'm going to throw liteweight lures, do I need to re-spool with lighter line for the "inshore game" around here. Huh
Thanks for your thoughts...
when I was growing up the guy who taught Me to fish was a chem engineer for Garcia Mitchel /Conlon in Costa Mesa Calif He used spinning reels for surface fishing He used 302's and its high speed varant the # escapes My mind right now and Langley spinators 870's
he used Garcia Royal bonel its put out by somebody else now its a very limp line
He told me it was designed for the 302
if you can find some give it a try
The Hi-Speed 302 was the 402.........
I do remember using Royal Bonel at one point and there was another brand of extremely limp mono that I used but it has not been available for some years and the name escapes me. I will see if I have an empty spool somewhere and if I recall it was made in the Netherlands.
Some of the limpest lines now for spinning are Stren Magnathin, Stren Easy Cast and Trilene XL. For braids, I did like the Fenwick Iron Thread 14 lb but it too is no longer available that I am aware of.
(http://i398.photobucket.com/albums/pp61/lbezemer/Mitchell/300drag.jpg)
FYI,
The "white" washer is the original 81 103 Teflon drag washer and the Penn 6-965 is below it. You will note that the metal drag washer is the type that is swaged to the Brake Spring. These are tough to find but I guess you could do the same with a stainless washer and Bellville spring.
I rough up the metal washer with a green scotch pad...
cal's grease?
CalElk its been a while since I have been fishing as I am working as a long haul trucker so I am not up on the currant brands
but the mention of the Old Garcias brought back many good memories
I am sure they are better brands of limp line out now
Thanks for the Memories that sounds like a song
now that I am home I am rebuilding My collection of reels and rods
Hopefully soon I will be out there again
Quote from: alantani on April 12, 2010, 01:58:51 AM
cal's grease?
Hi Alan,
First let me say that this is a wonderful site you have here, very informative and it has helped me repair for example the clicker on my charter special without destroying my reel taking it apart :)
To answer your question; of course. After browsing though your tutorials I purchased a jar of Cal's for drag washers. In the photo you can see two acid brushes, one is for Cal's the other for "blue" grease.
Quote from: Walter_Lars on April 12, 2010, 04:17:53 AM
CalElk its been a while since I have been fishing as I am working as a long haul trucker so I am not up on the currant brands
but the mention of the Old Garcias brought back many good memories
I am sure they are better brands of limp line out now
Thanks for the Memories that sounds like a song
now that I am home I am rebuilding My collection of reels and rods
Hopefully soon I will be out there again
Walter,
Speaking of memories, though I did not find an old spool of the limber line that I mentioned, while going through my old tackle boxes I did find some beadhead flies that my dad and I used for American shad fishing on the Yuba River in Marysville.
I remember us purchasing 9', 4-5 weight fly rod blanks and installing conventional spinning reel seats and guides on them. American shad have very soft mouths so we needed long, limber poles so as to not rip the hooks out of their mouths. With 6# line on our 300's, we used to catch them by the bucket full.
They make suitable rods now in crappie rods....where were they then? But I will admit, that is what got me into the rod building hobby which I still enjoy.
I remember us purchasing 9', 4-5 weight fly rod blanks and installing conventional spinning reel seats and guides on them. American shad have very soft mouths so we needed long, limber poles so as to not rip the hooks out of their mouths. With 6# line on our 300's, we used to catch them by the bucket full.
They make suitable rods now in crappie rods....where were they then? But I will admit, that is what got me into the rod building hobby which I still enjoy.
I went to school at Chico State 79 and 80
I got a collapsible crappie rod no guide except for the tip
I tryed fishing for shad up at tehama where the deer creek dumps in the sacto river never could hook a shad
but I had good luck over at the gravel pits below oro dam for crappie using curly tails and the 15' crappie stick
I hooked up about 4-5 # largemouth on that rig that was a great fight
Walter,
I will be in Chico the end of May talking to CalFire about building a few Type 3 Wildland engines for them.
We were shad fishing in the late 60's and I don't doubt that they have gone the way of the salmon. At one time we caught black crappie on Hogan Reservoir but that was during the mid 70's and everyone is bass fishing now.........
Back to it, I just finished cleaning and rebuilding two 400's, two 300's, a 350 and two 300 Skirted Spool Reels which I really like. They are however a lot different than the old 300's. One thing is the deep spool has twice the drag washers as the shallow and of course the bail is so much different.
Hi,guys it's me again 8) was surfing the site and came across this post(Thank's Alan :))I have a Number of these reels that i used to use back in my surf casting days a 300,302,306(ready for this)496 and the infamous 498(held 400+ of 20#,largest capacity for a spinner at that time)Haven't used them for some time but I think you guy's know me by now 8) Don't believe in spending mega bucks on equipment to catch quality fish.All my Garica reels have manual bail's but instead of buying new reels want to rebuild these's(know that the weakest part of the 498 is the frame >:(Thats why we always had a spares)were can I find parts for thse great reels and what can I do to make them stronger.Again Thank You for this Great site.PS still working on those 9/0 pic's to follow soon. 8)Alan when you get around to it,For I truley Know What A Truley Busy Man You Truley Are 8)
Quote from: blktwr2660 on March 19, 2011, 09:20:26 PM
Hi,guys it's me again 8) was surfing the site and came across this post(Thank's Alan :))I have a Number of these reels that i used to use back in my surf casting days a 300,302,306(ready for this)496 and the infamous 498(held 400+ of 20#,largest capacity for a spinner at that time)Haven't used them for some time but I think you guy's know me by now 8) Don't believe in spending mega bucks on equipment to catch quality fish.All my Garica reels have manual bail's but instead of buying new reels want to rebuild these's(know that the weakest part of the 498 is the frame >:(Thats why we always had a spares)were can I find parts for thse great reels and what can I do to make them stronger.Again Thank You for this Great site.PS still working on those 9/0 pic's to follow soon. 8)Alan when you get around to it,For I truley Know What A Truley Busy Man You Truley Are 8)
blktwr2600
This thread is getting a little long in the tooth but I have just today read your post.
For Mitchell parts you can use these two sources (and of course eBay):
http://www.mitchellparts.com/
http://www.mikesreelrepair.com/mitchell-parts-c-21_30.html
You will be able to find schematics on both of those sites as well.
For Mitchell Reel history as well as a parts interchange, schematics, etc. go to:
http://www.mitchellreels.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=14&Itemid=39
Hi,Guys, Me again 8).Have put Biz on HOLD ???.Going back to what I love the most(outside of wifey) :-*,Fishing and Classic reels.Alan your the Man ;D,THANK YOU FOR THIS SITE :).(I'M AMONGST CRAZY'S LIKE MY SELF ;D ).CALLELK,This one for you :-*.Thank You so very much for the heads up on MITCHELL REELS ::) On the way to repairing and rebuilding my old MITCHELL REELS :D.(The Museum link is so cool 8) Thanks again)Does any one of a museum site for PENN or OCEAN CITY,REELS that would be so cool 8)
You can try this for limited info:
http://waynesreelcollectibles.weebly.com/index.html
This thread is long in the tooth but poor line lay on the 300 series mitchells can be the housing rotor shims. If too large or too many have been installed then line lay cones, in the case described it could well be 20lb line on the reel which is well beyond manufacturers recommendations.
Alternatively people re assemble incorrectly and put the baffle plate shim at the rotor housing then same problem or the rotor housing shim is almost undetectable on the body and its assumed a loose shim must live there and now becomes too thick so same problem.
The 300's have a number of shims and they can make or break how that reel performs. Shims are the silver bullet to really tuning these reels. Line lay, rotor play, noisy gears think shims.