The other day I decided to order some TSI 301 from Pilkguns.com. I filled out the order form and when I completed the credit card information there was a charge of $22.00. Here is the order summary. I condensed it.
"----------------------------
ORDER SUMMARY
----------------------------
Item Subtotal: 22.00
Sales Tax: 0.00
Shipping Cost: 0.00
GRAND TOTAL: 22.00"
A couple of days later I recevied an email saying the item shipped and there was Sales Receipt showing the order and a $10.75 Shipping and Handling charge. I sent an email to the company complaining about a 49% shipping and handling charge as follows:
I need to register my displeasure at the trick your company played on me.
Set out below is the order for TSI 301. As you can see when I signed off the site, that was the amount I was going to be charged for my order. I received a sales receipt in a later email notifying me that there was a handling and shipping charge of $10.75. That is 49% over the cost of the merchandise and evidences a fraudulent practice on your part. Had you advised me that there would be a 49% premium to purchase from you I would not have done so. I hereby demand that you remove the $10.75 charge from my credit card. I will object to the charges when I receive my bill if you do not remove those charges. I would be willing to pay an actual shipping charge. If there is not a credit to my credit card, I will refuse the package when it reaches here.
Dominick Libonati.
I received the following response from Scott Pilkington:
Mr. Libonati,
I have put out a UPS intercept that will have the package returned to us. I do not like to deal with idiots or thieves and you appear to be both. When the merchandise is returned we will be refunding your credit card. I have added your name to the do not sell to list.
Scott Pilkington
I am posting this thread to let you know the type of company you might be dealing with if you order through Pilkguns. Dominick
I had an unbelievably similar story when I ordered from outrodders from leaning posts.com (from bloody decks.) I ordered them in July and am STILL trying to get my money back cause I sure as hell don't want their product now. I went to the BBB for the first time in my life... I doubt it will help, but I hate getting robbed! If they were on this coast I would have knocked on the door in August. If Pilkguns is local maybe you should stop by and say hello! >:( I hope these guys straighten out your order cause I'm sure you're as frustrated as I am about the lack/crappy customer service. Why is production going overseas... hmmmm?
Dom
Well it appears Mr.(?) Pilkington may end up the idiot, because I'm sure he just lost a whole lot of potential business. I know he won't get mine. >:( And he gets to pay UPS charges both ways. :D :D
Thanks for posting this Dominick.
Dom, Rob: I am like you Dom I don't go to the authorities but in this case, I am so angry at this deceptive practice that I wrote a letter to the Attorney General of Tennessee. They just might look into it. I hope you understand that I don't mind shipping charges, just tell me up front there is a charge so I can make up my mind whether to pay it or not. Actually this is a ludicrous amount to charge. Don't any of these companies pay their employees out of their overhead? Just think about this. The employee takes an 8 ounce can puts it in a box with some packing, smacks on a label printed from the computer, tapes the box closed and puts it in a stack for UPS to pickup. My charge was $10.75, multiply that many times in a day and Ka-ching the company is making a big profit on this employee's sweat. Where are reasonable charges? Sorry about my rant. Dominick
I feel your frustration, Dominick. That moron shouldn't have handled it in that manner. In the old days he would have been used as backfill for a patio for calling customers idiots. I've been self-employed for over 20 years and I know about customer service. My business runs on referrels only, I never advertise and thank god, I'm always busy. BUT, I know how to treat my customers. I don't believe that the person that handled your transaction is the owner, he's probably just a worker that didn't have proper training. Still, you have every rights to be upset.
My families business hasn't lasted 40 years by using their business plan... that's for sure!
...Backfill, now that's a good idea! ;)
Dom
i am in the process of testing their products as we speak. the sample's were given to me as well as some corrosion x. i like what i see so far but i refuse to deal with people like this. are they a lone dealer or where else can we get tsi301 ? if they are the only one's then im sticking with corrosion x. as rob said i think with all our traffic he will be the moron in the end. in hawaii the word is lolo
Kamu -
I went to www.tsi.com and was redirected to this site when I clicked on the "Buy" Lubricants:
http://www.detectorbuy.com/shop/cart.php?target=category&category_id=256
I don't know if they're limited in their selection, or these are the only ways tsi packages it.
Lolo :D :D I like it!
thank's rob ill try them. i bet i pay $25 for shipping from the other end of the u.s. lol, not to be confused with lolo
crud, dom, i ordered a case of the stuff during the summer. you could have just had one!
i also took several cans to the post office to ship them overseas. shipping came out to $16. the farthest was norway!
I believe the 8 oz can fit in a small flat rate box by itself. Shipping should be what, $5 or so for the US.
Dominick, sorry for your bad experience. The shipping rate from them direct is quite expensive as well if you order one can. That is why I order a lot...maybe too much.
No excuse for him being rude, I hope he is suitably punished for this bad behavior.
With the price of $22.00 I'll assume it was the 11oz aerosol can you ordered, you might be seeing a hazardous charge in the shipping charge. If my memory is right it was $10.00 per box when I lived on an island in SE Alaska. We got double charged as everything had to go to Seattle first then barged to Ketchikan where we picked it up. I tried to order powder and ammo by the pallet load to save on the hazardous materials charges.
Dominick, what do you need? 8 oz or aerosol? I get back on Friday. Out of 8 oz can. Gotta see Alan for that. Aerosol, 1 can left.
Hi all: Thanks for your support. If I hear back from the Attorney General I will report it here. This was just an 8 oz. can of TSI 301, not aerosol. I hope everyone understands that the issue is that the order form says $22.00. I gave them my credit card information for an approved $22.00 charge. See the order summary in my first post in this thread. Two days later the Sales Receipt showed the unauthorized charges of $10.75. I want to be able to make a decision whether to pay a shipping charge or not. Keta if there was a hazardous materials charge that should have been disclosed also. The whole reason for this thread is so that you can keep your eyes open when dealing with this company. Every other on line company gives you a total of your charges before you confirm the order. This company does not. Bryan, thanks for your offer. I only need about 1-2 ounces but ordered the 8 oz. can to share with some of my friends. Dominick
Hi Dominick,
I'll put some in a jar for you when I return. I have to work up in Palo Alto next Monday and Tuesday. Let's meet up afterwards and I'll swap you the TSI for the reel.
Bryan
they messed with the wrong lawyer! ;D
You got that right, Alan! ...what's worse is they messed with the wrong lawyer who happens to be a member of such a far reaching site! ;)
Dom
Quote from: broadway on December 13, 2011, 09:12:35 PM
You got that right, Alan! ...what's worse is they messed with the wrong lawyer who happens to be a member of such a far reaching site! ;)
Dom
X2! ;)
Ok Guys: This guy won't let up. Here is the latest. I decided to respond to his email to me as follows:
Mr. Pilkington: I can purchase elsewhere. Rather then look at the way you do on-line business you decide to call me an idiot and a thief. I approved a $22.00 charge to my credit card and you took the unauthorized position to charge more than I approved, and you call me a thief? You are projecting.
I don't particularly care what the charges are, but you are not up front with your charges when an order is placed. This practice according to the laws of the State of Tennessee is a deceptive practice under the state consumer protection statutes, and you call me an idiot. I am going to write to the Attorney General of your state to advise them of this deceptive practice. Sincerely, Dominick Libonati
Here is his response:
And you will have to purchase elsewhere, because I don't like selling to idiots like yourself. If anyone was "projecting" it was you with your usage of "trick" and "fraudulent practice" and "49% premium" . Any person who was not an idiot would not use phrases like that. Any person who was not a thief would not make statements like "If there is not a credit to my credit card, I will refuse the package when it reaches here. " Only a thief would use the extortion tactics you have tried to do. Therefore, my statements stand .
I stopped the package enroute, so you would not have to deal with us and we will be refunding your credit card, so we have done nothing wrong.
Scott Pilkington
I have tried to understand how a person can get so upset when he is wrong. I sent a letter to the Attorney General of Tennessee. The Consumers Affairs Department should look into it. If not I won't lose any sleep over it. Dominick
Oh I totally understand and feel your anger. Its kinda like some of the restaurants that tally on tip onto the bill and don't say anything. Then you pay it and you leave tip at the table. >:( Sneaky!
Yes Dom, you're just like me....its the principle of the matter! The shipping could have been just two bucks....just tell me upfront for goodness sakes! When the bill says 22.00 as the final charge and then they sneak in 10.75 :o What the heck is that? :-\ But to have reply such as he did... >:( Pathetic
That lolo (thanks kamu ;D) is a five-star bully or else he has the IQ of a rock. "People" like that have no business being in business!
Business used to be done on a hand shake... now it's done by the click of a mouse, BUY NOW!
Unfortunately, for Pilkguns I don't think business is his biggest problem... maybe a therapist is in order ::)
Hey Dominick, at least you got your money back. Leaning posts won't send me my money or the products. I have a lawyer sending them a letter next week.
I hate getting screw especially over the computer or phone by telephone tough guys!!!
better luck next time, pal
Dom
Dom the scary part is he has access to guns ::). If it is going to cost you money for your lawyer to write don't bother spending the money. The lawyer's letter is an empty threat, because you are not going to pay a lawyer to sue Leaning Post. So the idea is to just sue them in small claims court. Dominick
Let's turn it around. Instead of suing, why don't we take him fishing ;)
Dominick,
Anyone has access to guns, but if you're gonna shoot someone for $20, you were probably gonna shoot someone for nothing soon or later anyway. I'm not trying to get my money back at this point... my best friend is a lawyer and I want him to go through the channels for me to give these guys a mark on their business. It ain't right screwing people over who chose a mom and pop over big business (taco, reliable, smith, etc) to support the little guy... I just gave a donation ??? AIN"T GONNA HAPPEN ON MY WATCH! These knuckleheads even sent me text messages telling me they'll overnight my check back, however their gonna take the $40 it cost for shipping out of my check. When I called them back 5 seconds after I got the message they said they didn't send it, but I just dialed the number that the text came from... childish crap! I'm so Sicilian/stubborn I have considered going to Arizona to say hello (a day trip)... would love to see the "tough guys" faces then! ;) Small claims? How does that work when they're in Arizona... just asking?
... Sal, fishing is a good idea... I'm thinkin' offshore ;)
Dom
Dom that's easy. Sue them locally and serve them in Arizona. They do business in NY so there is enough of a connection to your jurisdiction. Rob, interesting. Off shore hmmm! Dominick
Thanks for the advice, Dominick... that's gonna be my next step (keep ya posted)
Dom
QuoteI'm thinkin' offshore...
Waaaaay offshore ;)
The Website does not charge shipping automatically. The cheapest UPS Ground shipping with insurance you can get STARTS at $10.00. Just because an item is cheap does not mean it will ship for 2% of what it costs. TSI is a delicate item and would have to be boxed and padded appropriatly to keep it safe. You can't exactly put an aerisol can in a Bupple-lope. If you order a .99 pack of gum and ship it in the smallest box UPS allows it will still be $10.00. Did you not notice the place marked "Shipping Cost" was blank? When shipping is automatically charged on websites most of the time you end up paying a lot more. Most websites I frequent have "handling fees" for orders under $25 or even $50. Pilkington's charges EXACT shipping costs in order to keep the cost's down for the customer. With no handling or minimum order fees. If the item you ordered was $75 and fit in the same size box the shipping would have been the same. You were charged basic shipping costs pure and simple. Not scammed or took advantage of.
Off the website:
SHIPPING INFORMATION
"We normally ship orders via UPS. If you prefer an alternative means of shipment, please note your request in the Special Instructions/Comments box or contact us.
If you require a shipping charge quote, please contact us at info@pilkguns.com or 931-924-3400."
Quote from: Badgergirl on February 14, 2012, 08:24:09 PM
The Website does not charge shipping automatically. The cheapest UPS Ground shipping with insurance you can get STARTS at $10.00. Just because an item is cheap does not mean it will ship for 2% of what it costs. TSI is a delicate item and would have to be boxed and padded appropriatly to keep it safe. You can't exactly put an aerisol can in a Bupple-lope. If you order a .99 pack of gum and ship it in the smallest box UPS allows it will still be $10.00. Did you not notice the place marked "Shipping Cost" was blank? When shipping is automatically charged on websites most of the time you end up paying a lot more. Most websites I frequent have "handling fees" for orders under $25 or even $50. Pilkington's charges EXACT shipping costs in order to keep the cost's down for the customer. With no handling or minimum order fees. If the item you ordered was $75 and fit in the same size box the shipping would have been the same. You were charged basic shipping costs pure and simple. Not scammed or took advantage of.
Off the website:
SHIPPING INFORMATION
"We normally ship orders via UPS. If you prefer an alternative means of shipment, please note your request in the Special Instructions/Comments box or contact us.
If you require a shipping charge quote, please contact us at info@pilkguns.com or 931-924-3400."
Badgergirl: THIS SITE IS NOT HERE FOR THIS KIND OF DISPUTE. However, I must respond. I bet you joined this site just to spout the same lies that Scott Pilkington told the Tennessee Consumer Affairs people. You are missing the point. I approved the credit card charge of $22.00. Then I was sent a receipt for $32.75. You are just as dishonest as Scott Pilkington by misleading the members of this site. The original charge was "Shipping $0.00." That does not tell me or anyone who visits your site that you will charge a shipping charge in the future. If your company was so honest you would put the shipping charges up front. Tell it to the Tennessee Consumer Affairs Department of the Attorney General's office. Dominick
Badger it seems that it wasn't JUST the cost of shipping that was the problem, it was the attitude of the employee.Customer service goes a long way in the retail market.
to all concerned, please keep things factual (and as respectul as possible). remember that the 12 year old rule applies. thank you. alan
At least you were upfront and did not try to hard hide your connection to Pilkington, thank you.
When I can fill a USPO flat rate box full of lead and mail it completely across the country for less than $11.00 Pilkington's shipping rate is a bit high unless there is a hazardous shipping fee involved. The non approved credit card charges appearer to me to be fraud.
Hi Jennifer (Badgergirl),
Welcome to the site. Note, that this is an unfortunate situation.
Based on your response, it appears that you are affiliated with Mr. Scott Pilkington's business, and if so, it's best to state it upfront. This sight does not allow for unsubstantiated comments towards a particular product or business. Note, unsubstantiated.
This posted was allowed to remain on the site due to the fact that Dominick posses actual responses from Mr. Scott Pilkington.
As you had indicated:
"We normally ship orders via UPS. If you prefer an alternative means of shipment, please note your request in the Special Instructions/Comments box or contact us.
If you require a shipping charge quote, please contact us at info@pilkguns.com or 931-924-3400."
By this statement, if the purchaser prefers an alternative means of shipment, or have special handling, then a shipping charge quote may be warranted. If not, shipping charge that is posted on the point of sale is what the purchaser had agreed to, and if there are any circumstances that additional chargers are in order, it is required by law to contact the purchaser and provide the purchaser a choice to proceed or cancel the order. It is unlawful for the organization to just tack on the shipping charges without prior authorization. This is the point of contention. Dominick was not provided the opportunity to approve or cancel the shipping charges.
And, to make matters worse, Mr. Pilkington made the a personal attack on a customer. It would all have been easily eliminated if Mr. Pilkington responded in a business like manner, explained the situation, and provided his customer an opportunity to approve or cancel the order based on the new information received of the shipping charges.
I wish Mr. Pilkington and his company success. I would also suggest that Mr. Pilkington visit several other websites, possibly purchase a few items, and note the shipping charges are indicated in the point of sale (on-line invoice). Either incorporate something similar or do not charge the customer until he gets agreement from the customer on the shipping charges.
Very best,
Bryan
Quote from: Badgergirl on February 14, 2012, 08:24:09 PM
The Website does not charge shipping automatically. The cheapest UPS Ground shipping with insurance you can get STARTS at $10.00. Just because an item is cheap does not mean it will ship for 2% of what it costs. TSI is a delicate item and would have to be boxed and padded appropriatly to keep it safe. You can't exactly put an aerisol can in a Bupple-lope. If you order a .99 pack of gum and ship it in the smallest box UPS allows it will still be $10.00. Did you not notice the place marked "Shipping Cost" was blank? When shipping is automatically charged on websites most of the time you end up paying a lot more. Most websites I frequent have "handling fees" for orders under $25 or even $50. Pilkington's charges EXACT shipping costs in order to keep the cost's down for the customer. With no handling or minimum order fees. If the item you ordered was $75 and fit in the same size box the shipping would have been the same. You were charged basic shipping costs pure and simple. Not scammed or took advantage of.
Off the website:
SHIPPING INFORMATION
"We normally ship orders via UPS. If you prefer an alternative means of shipment, please note your request in the Special Instructions/Comments box or contact us.
If you require a shipping charge quote, please contact us at info@pilkguns.com or 931-924-3400."
Temperate and gracious...
Well said Bryan.
"You are just as dishonest as Scott Pilkington by misleading the members of this site."
Wow. Really? I've worked there for over 7 years and I can't recall anyone having a temper tantrum or finding a problem with the Shipping price 0.00.. The shipping is calcultated after the item(s) are boxed and weighed so the customer is charged exact shipping costs... If $10.75 was the charge for shipping then that is what UPS Ground charged that day. The item was put in the smallest box that it would safely ship in. TSI is a flamable oil- you have to assure it is padded.
Scott is one of the most honest, kind, giving people I have ever encountered. He gives thousands of dollars away of merchandise every year as donations to clubs and youth/disabled events. I can't imagine the amount of abuse he would have to recieve in order to make a statement like that. However, I was not around at the time of this particular situation. I had a personal tradegy over the winter and took 3 months off.
That being said, I didn't come here to defend his customer relations choices. I simply wanted to defend the fact that the charge was not some sneeky price hike that we pocket in order to afford new rims for our BMW's. It was a shipping charge. The website is old and not very fancy. This company is very small and is not a huge warehouse in a big city. A handful of people do everything. Out of 600+ automated orders a year I cant recall one ending like this. It sort of makes me believe there is MORE to this story than you are being told by your friend here.
I don't want to fight with anyone. I didn't come here to attack anyone personally- I would appreciate the same.
Quote from: Badgergirl on February 15, 2012, 05:37:36 PM
I can't imagine the amount of abuse he would have to recieve in order to make a statement like that.
I was not around at the time of this particular situation.
It sort of makes me believe there is MORE to this story than you are being told by your friend here.
I don't want to fight with anyone. I didn't come here to attack anyone personally- I would appreciate the same.
Badgergirl: If you were not around during this event then you have to go by what I said in the beginning of this thread. If you see abuse in the email I sent to Scott Pilkington at the beginning of this thread, I apologize, after all I am an idiot and a thief. What was said was factual with no embellishment. There is no more to the story. I have the emails and correspondence, so do not imply that there is more to the story. You admit that your site does not show the charges up front, because it is an old site. Give me a break, a 12 year old can fix that site. All I have asked of you and all I asked of the Tennessee Consumer Affairs people is that the charges show up so that the consumer can make a choice to pay or not pay the shipping charges, whether reasonable or not. There is no reason for your wonderful person, Scott Pilkington to call me an idiot and thief based on the correspondence in the beginning of this thread. Let this end here, I don't care how you do business. I did not attack him personally though he freely did so in attacking me. Dominick
norcal,
I think this is the link you need for TSI lube.
http://www.tsi301.com
The link he needs is "AlanTani" or "BryanYoung" ;D
Shopping Cart Product Description Remove Unit Price Quantity Total
Steyr, 8 duct comp remove $53.00 ea. update $53.00
Steyr, grip weight 31g remove $13.00 ea. update $13.00
$66.00Subtotal:
$0.00Tax:
$0.00Shipping:
$66.00
Estimated Order Total:Select a Secure Checkout Option: « Continue ShoppingEmpty CartNOTE: Shipping charges will be calculated at the time of shipping and added to your total.Credit Cards Accepted:
SHIPPING CHARGES WILL BE CALCULATED AT THE TIME OF SHIPPING AND ADDED TO YOUR TOTAL
There it is. Plain as day. Right on the check out page.
Unauthorised credit card charges are fraud, no matter what it says on the check out page.
You are digging a hole you will have trouble getting out of and in my life I have always admitted when I was wrong and corrected it.
One thing I do not tolerate is rude. Your bosses reaction to being questioned was VERY RUDE and you will NEVER see a penny of mine no mater what the price.
Badgegirl: I am getting tired of your disingenuous comments. Here is a full copy of the page. Show me where it says shipping charges will be added later. Like the previous post says, admit you are wrong, apologize and let's move on. I am posting private information in this post in order to show that the first receipt I received and approved is exactly as received from your company. This is a true and correct copy of the confirmation. Dominick
Hello,
Thank you for your order with PilkGuns Price List. Below are your order details.
Order Number: 2205-3832-0527
Order Date: 2011-12-06 22:52:01
----------------------------
PAYMENT INFORMATION
----------------------------
Purchase Billing Method: Credit Card
Name on Card: DOMINICK LIBONATI
CC Type: mastercard
----------------------------
BILLING INFORMATION
----------------------------
Company:
First Name: DOMINICK
Last Name: LIBONATI
Address 1: 2046 FAIRMONT DRIVE
Address 2:
City: SAN MATEO
State: CA
Postal Code: 94402
Country: US
Phone Number: 650-574-5524
----------------------------
SHIPPING INFORMATION
----------------------------
Company:
First Name: DOMINICK
Last Name: LIBONATI
Address 1: 2046 FAIRMONT DRIVE
Address 2:
City: SAN MATEO
State: CA
Postal Code: 94402
Country: US
Phone Number: 650-574-5524
Shipping Method:
Shipping Weight: 0.00
Special Instructions:
----------------------------
ORDER SUMMARY
----------------------------
Item Subtotal: 22.00
Sales Tax: 0.00
Shipping Cost: 0.00
GRAND TOTAL: 22.00
ITEMS:
Qty - Price - Part# - Desc
1 - 22.00 - - TSI301, TSI301 8 oz lubricant
Thank You.
------------------------------------------------
Powered by Americart
http://www.americart.com
Also, checking on UPS today it looks like a 10x6x4, 1lb package to 90210 w/insurance would run $9.93. That's a larger city though. If you ship that same package to a Rural address in AR 72634 the total would be $12.62. Same Box to South Carolina 29164 $12.50.
USPO is cheaper and to my small town in the mountains of SE Oregon packages get here as fast as UPS. My mailman even brings the boxes to the back porch.
At the time of Checkout the shipping information was given. If you read the checkout you would have saw that shipping would be added later. If you were that worried about shipping you could have called, emailed or added a note to the order stating you wanted a price quote before the order was filled and your CC ran. Also, on the checkout form it says "Estimated" total. Right next to the place where it says... Shipping charges will be calculated at the time of shipping and added to your total. By hitting the "submit order" button you are also authorizing that you have read and understand that your shipping will be added to your total later and that your orderd total is Estimated. Like I said. 600+ orders a year and you are the ONLY person that has ever had a hissy fit over this.
Also, You handled the whole situation by starting off with "I need to register my displeasure at the trick your company played on me."
Hello Badgegirl,
In looking at Dominic's posting of his order form (assuming that it is exactly how it was written), I do not see the word "estimated" on it.
On the other hand, in looking at how you presented the order form (assuming that the real form is exactly as you shown), it does say "estimated" on it.
It look or sounds like a "He said....She said" kind of a situation because I personally was not there to eyewitness the truth. ???
Anyway, the bottom line where I can see the potential can of worms opening and I would kindly and highly suggest modifying, despite your 600+ orders a year, would be:
1. Rather than showing a 0.00 numerical amount next to the shipping line item....the readout should say "To Be Calculated". By showing 0.00, people, including myself, would think....ZERO or Free shipping.
2. The last line item called "Grand Total" should be left blank until the shipping cost are factored in. In Dominic's case, By showing:
Item Subtotal: 22.00
Sales Tax: 0.00
Shipping Cost: 0.00
GRAND TOTAL: 22.00
I can understand why Dominic was upset or felt "tricked". Grand total means Grand total.
I am not suggesting that you folks change the way you do business, but by changing the two suggestions that I pointed out, it would definetely save a whole lot of future headaches.
At this time the topic is locked.
Alan and Dominick, you have pm's.