Has anyone else had this problem? Opened up a Mitchell 300 (yard sale find), that was very stiff to crank. The old grease was hard and almost crystalized. Easy fix after all I've learned here...... disassemble,soak in diluted Simple Green, and the old toothbrush scrub😁.....
Well apparently whatever material this one gear( I think it's called a transfer gear) is made of doesn't take kindly to being encrusted in nasty tar like grease for decades, because it eroded some of the material off the teeth ???
....and of course I didn't notice it till after reassembly. I don't think it was the SG...or was it, maybe one of the experts will know.
Sort of hard to see, but teeth worn away on left side in pic....
(http://alantani.com/gallery/23/17022_15_03_18_12_31_43.jpeg)
Brett
i think that's aluminum and if it was already a bit compromised, yes SG will get it. i stopped putting any aluminum in SG after i turned a Daiwa 50 purple.
I agree with John. Simple Green (whatever it is) can do some weird stuff. Don't ever leave anything in it overnight.
-steve
Thanks guys. Yeah I learned that lesson the hard way with "Purple Power" degreaser on some of my first attempts at cleaning😁 Now I use SG , 50/50 with warm water. Thought I had learned my lesson! I will say though, that these parts were in there 15-20 minutes max. I dropped them in after scraping 90% of the crud off with wooden skewer pieces and dental pics. It was a very short soak as I scrubbed with a toothbrush and a soft brass brush. Don't know if I did it, the cleaner did it, or if it was like that already. I didn't even notice it until after assembly.
The reel before.....
(http://alantani.com/gallery/24/17022_26_03_18_2_24_58_240491097.jpeg)
Always learning....sometimes the hard way :o
Brett
Things like that are the exact reason why I wouldn't even consider using SG. I used it once to try to clean a stain on the utility room concrete floor and it peeled the paint up next to the stain. I decided I'd never again use it on anything except bare exterior concrete. Lacquer thinner & acetone may smell but at least they don't deteriorate bare metals.
Yep, Tommy.....
And I haven't gallon of laquer thinner sitting right next to the Simple Green.....doh!!!!!!!!
Brett
Yeah, Brett — I learned early on that Mitchell or Daiwa alloy parts do not do well with Simple Green or Purple HD degreaser.
If left in long enough, material becomes weak and actually becomes useless.
At the best, the parts will blacken and need to be cleaned with steel wool and a wire wheel brush.
Surprisingly, straight lacquer thinner is very effective on the greases and crud — the parts come out sparkling with no degradation.
I use LT for any bare metals. A lid is kept on it between cleanings —and it is extremely flammable.
But I go through a gallon to a gallon and a half a month. Get possibly 6 or 9 cleanings out of each batch. If it gets too oily or dark, I just filter it with a used fine metal coffee gold filter.
Never use LT on any painted, anodized, plastic, or graphite parts.
The other great solution is DAWN dish soap & hot water for all plastic, painted, anodized, and graphite parts.
Ultrasonic cleaner works well with these cleaners also.
Again, just use caution — and do not leave unattended for long.
If you need a new transfer gear 81032? — I can send it out N/C.
I have your address in Tucson.
Best,
Fred
Fred,
Thank you sir, I would appreciate that....PM coming your way in a few.
Brett
Ive seen modern reels in worse shape than these. I rebuilt 5 Penn Battle 5000's and a couple SSV reels lately that needed everything. The same corrosion. Darn Kayak Fisherman..!!
They kept using them until they got so hard to turn it bent the spool shaft.
I guess it takes all types to make this world go round! I cant for the life of me understand how the poor performance they must be getting from those reels wouldnt drive them crazy. Not to mention the possibility of losing fish! 🐟🐟
Brett
My sister's first car was a 74 Ford Mustang V6 that was a year old when she got it.
I asked her how she was doing with her service and oil changes a year later.
She sez "it has the neatest feature — this little red light comes on to let me know I need to add some oil..."
Best,
Fred
It is not a good feeling reading this thread and knowing that I treated over a dozen reels with some combination of SG and vinegar, although in all cases I diluted them, but more often than not they were left overnight....for effectiveness, not laziness. I have not seen any discoloration immediately following treatment. But, when I open up a Mitchell I will see the greese on an Al gear sometimes darkened, but it does not appear to be the metal itself. Perhaps a top layer is being rubbed off.
According to the MSDS, the pH of Simple Green is 9.5, which of course is a base. Strange to think that SG and vinegar might neutralize each other to some extent if you got the proportions just right. But, then they might lose their individual effeciveness. It is all a mystery.
Quote from: grekim on March 28, 2018, 10:56:05 AMStrange to think that SG and vinegar might neutralize each other to some extent if you got the proportions just right. But, then they might lose their individual effeciveness. It is all a mystery.
The only reason vinegar is useful is because it is a dilute solution of acetic acid. If you neutralize that it's as effective as water. There's no mystery, it's all science.
Simple Green didn't do that to that gear. How can you explain that only a small portion of a large gear was affected? That gear was damaged by something else.
I degrease with either mineral spirits or lacquer thinner and use vinegar straight up with no problems. If I need more cleaning power I use Dawn Dish Soap. I routinely soak overnight, but not in Simple Green. I wouldn't advise leaving metal in SG for more than a few minutes. It's fine on chrome and brass, not good for Aluminum.
What's the Simple Green gonna be doing to ya once it's vapors are breathed in, or possibly absorbed through the skin? Ph 9.5 sounds pretty -alkaline- caustic. Wonder what else is in there.
Doesn't anybody use Penn reel cleaner?
Quote from: sdlehr on March 28, 2018, 12:19:26 PM
Quote from: grekim on March 28, 2018, 10:56:05 AMStrange to think that SG and vinegar might neutralize each other to some extent if you got the proportions just right. But, then they might lose their individual effeciveness. It is all a mystery.
The only reason vinegar is useful is because it is a dilute solution of acetic acid. If you neutralize that it's as effective as water. There's no mystery, it's all science.
Simple Green didn't do that to that gear. How can you explain that only a small portion of a large gear was affected? That gear was damaged by something else.
I degrease with either mineral spirits or lacquer thinner and use vinegar straight up with no problems. If I need more cleaning power I use Dawn Dish Soap. I routinely soak overnight, but not in Simple Green. I wouldn't advise leaving metal in SG for more than a few minutes. It's fine on chrome and brass, not good for Aluminum.
I was sort of joking....I teach high school chem :) You can google the MSDS for SG. It's non-toxic, but made partly from an ether. I would be more comfortable with it than most of the solvents mentioned here.
Quote from: Gfish on March 28, 2018, 03:08:11 PM
What's the Simple Green gonna be doing to ya once it's vapors are breathed in, or possibly absorbed through the skin? Ph 9.5 sounds pretty -alkaline- caustic. Wonder what else is in there.
Just don't soak yourself in it. As Grekim said, it's not very toxic. Intact skin forms a very effective barrier. pH 9.5 isn't that high.
I use Penn reel cleaner for final wipedown of rods and reels. You need something a bit more aggressive for old cruddy grease and general internal reel funk (GIRF!!!!!....I like it). Very likely the difference in corrosion being much worse on the smaller gear vs. main is due to being somewhat different alloy, which in the presence of ionized material, the salty GIRF, makes the smaller gear (because of electronegative potential, not size) basically a sacrificial anode like on a boat motor. So its damaged more, and once the compromised metal is exposed further to pH of Simple Green, all she wrote...
Note, brass gears and especially marine bronze rarely if ever are eaten up electrolytically as such...electrical potential is much closer to inert.
Quote from: Gfish on March 28, 2018, 03:08:11 PM
What's the Simple Green gonna be doing to ya once it's vapors are breathed in, or possibly absorbed through the skin? Ph 9.5 sounds pretty -alkaline- caustic. Wonder what else is in there.
Its so safe you could almost drink it. Don't blame Simple Green it the parts disintegrate while soaking.
I soak my parts overnight and been doing it for a while now with no issues., but I do not own any cast aluminum gears.
I also do not mix, I'll soak brass and chromed parts separately.
https://simplegreen.com/downloads/SDS_EN-US_SimpleGreenAllPurposeCleaner.pdf
Sal
A surfactant to wet out the surface, an oil emulsifier, a sequesterant to tie up something-or-another, a strong base to jack up the pH, a weak acid to neutralize some of the alkali, something to kill microbes, something to give it color and smell. I'm so confused.
-steve
I think the citric acid and sodium citrate are to buffer the pH and the sodium carbonate is to adjust that pH up. Haven't the time right now to investigate the other ingredients.
All needed information is available on line, no need to get too deep into it. Its just a matter of someone taking the time to read it or let someone else do it for them ;D
Sal
Sal, depends on one's "needs". Do you "need" to use the stuff to clean a reel, or do you "need" to know what's in it and what does each thing do?
I just need it to clean parts...i do reels at night to take my mind off formulas, which I do all day....
Sid has a point —
Some folks thrive on the details of how something works, or is made of.
Others not as much.
Personally, I am thrilled and impressed by the various engineering aspects of our reels — and do study those things. Likely bore most of you guys to death with my observations.
When it comes to cleaning though, I just need it to do its job with safety for our home, and effectiveness for the project with no harm to parts. Must be a capable, effective, and easy to use within a system — type cleaner.
So I am not at the point where I need to know how to build a watch — just need to know what time it is.
Everyone has their own demand & comfort level — and different reasons for working on reels.
Just IMO.
Best,
Fred
Quote from: oc1 on March 29, 2018, 07:00:26 AM
A surfactant to wet out the surface, an oil emulsifier, a sequesterant to tie up something-or-another, a strong base to jack up the pH, a weak acid to neutralize some of the alkali, something to kill microbes, something to give it color and smell. I'm so confused.
-steve
I hear ya Steve...sometimes I overdose on the details too...if my small mind could just hold all this info I stuff into it! :D
I am a believer in Simple Green.
I have taken a Senator completely apart and soaked everything in one bucket for 24 to 48 hours with no ill effects. It cleans up Corrosion on Chrome plated brass pretty good, There are no aluminum parts in these old reels.
i buy it by the gallon and any non-aluminum reel goes in it. 50/50 overnight does indeed clean up some chrome. i'm on the fence to either buy a sonicator or come back down to earth and cut way back on the doing of reels...
I bought me one of them Sonicators last year. I haven't used it yet. ::)
I'm kind of with Fred. I could care less what the makeup of my cleaners are as long as they do the job quickly, easily & without complications, or making me high or killing my wife and/or the pups. My go to initial degreaser will always be lacquer thinner. I never run out because I buy it cheaper buy the 5 gal drum and when I'm down to a gallon I go buy another 5 gal. I have a gallon of acetone that I seldom use and a gallon or two of mineral spirits that I also seldom use.
With all that said, I keep a quart of lacquer thinner in my reel room in the basement, and the 5 gal can stays out in the shed. We don't have any gas appliances so I don't have to worry about fumes being ignited & the house blowing up. I'm cognizant about not having the lacquer thinner jar open for long periods of time to help eliminate odor & fumes. All my non-painted metal parts go into the jar at the top left corner of the chair, with the lid screwed down tight. I've had parts in that jar for well a month with no adverse effects to any part. Granted, I'm not in the reel repair business so time isn't a factor, but if I was, lacquer thinner would still be my main grease solvent, just in a different manner. Mainly because it's the easiest and best degreaser out there. & BTW, the smell of lacquer thinner doesn't make me near as nauseous as Simple Green. :P
Quote from: Midway Tommy on March 29, 2018, 08:26:10 PM
Mainly because it's the easiest and best degreaser out there. & BTW, the smell of lacquer thinner doesn't make me near as nauseous as Simple Green. :P
If you're serious, you must have had something to drink ::) ;D. Lacquer thinner has no place in my house, but to each his own Tommy ;).
What's in a name? Simple Green sounds like it's anything "but"... Gotta admire the companie's marketing strategy though(Sunshine Makers, Inc.).
I grew up with lacquer thinner around body shops.
And I still do a lot of woodworking that requires finishing with oil based stains and lacquers.
So my comfort level with it is good. And I respect it, do not inhale, keep it as much as possible off my skin.
But it just works so well, and other cleaners are way too expensive or not as effective for me.
Currently, I am restoring 36 old DAM Quick Microlites — the first 17 are the old 265's. These have every kind of grease that has been invented over the past 58 years. There is a lot of crud, some corrosion, super hardened grease, etc. Lacquer thinner just takes care of it, period.
Parts still need to be polished, burnished — but the crud is gone — and I can see what I have to work with.
Lacquer thinner isn't for everyone — and like any powerful cleaner, it is both effective and dangerous.
So it is only recommended for those who are careful and comfortable with the product.
The jar on the left has plastic and painted parts soaking in Dawn.
The middle and right one have brass, aluminum, steel, chromed, and alloy parts. No damage to any of them.
Best,
Fred
Quote from: Alto Mare on March 29, 2018, 09:46:50 PM
Quote from: Midway Tommy on March 29, 2018, 08:26:10 PM
Mainly because it's the easiest and best degreaser out there. & BTW, the smell of lacquer thinner doesn't make me near as nauseous as Simple Green. :P
If you're serious, you must have had something to drink ::) ;D. Lacquer thinner has no place in my house, but to each his own Tommy ;).
Only coffee, water or iced tea, Sal, but hey, most inside flower bouquets & old ladies' perfumes make me nauseous, too. ;D :o
:D :D...I have no doubts if the lacquer would work, especially when suggested by you or Fred, but I just can't stand the stench.
So, it's still a thumb down for me :), but not telling anyone else not to use it.
Quote from: Alto Mare on March 30, 2018, 11:18:27 AM
:D :D...I have no doubts if the lacquer would work, especially when suggested by you or Fred, but I just can't stand the stench.
So, it's still a thumb down for me :), but not telling anyone else not to use it.
I'm not advising anyone to use it, either. :) It's nasty stuff and probably not for the faint at heart or health freaks. I, like Fred, have worked with, and around it, all my life in the construction trades. Heck, my mother cleaned our new construction houses and used it on rags, with no gloves, cleaning fiberglass shower stalls, laminate counter tops, bath tubs, etc., for about 30 years. She's 87 & still going strong if that says anything, not cleaning houses for the last 20 years, though. The trick is to know the adverse effects it can have and respect that aspect. I've spent some time in a 40 sq ft bathroom with my mom and that stuff, and believe me, it definitely was no picnic. :P Having fresh air available is the key! ;)
Quote from: Midway Tommy on March 30, 2018, 04:15:37 PM
Quote from: Alto Mare on March 30, 2018, 11:18:27 AM
:D :D...I have no doubts if the lacquer would work, especially when suggested by you or Fred, but I just can't stand the stench.
So, it's still a thumb down for me :), but not telling anyone else not to use it.
I'm not advising anyone to use it, either. :) It's nasty stuff and probably not for the faint at heart or health freaks. I, like Fred, have worked with, and around it, all my life in the construction trades. Heck, my mother cleaned our new construction houses and used it on rags, with no gloves, cleaning fiberglass shower stalls, laminate counter tops, bath tubs, etc., for about 30 years. She's 87 & still going strong if that says anything, not cleaning houses for the last 20 years, though. The trick is to know the adverse effects it can have and respect that aspect. I've spent some time in a 40 sq ft bathroom with my mom and that stuff, and believe me, it definitely was no picnic. :P Having fresh air available is the key! ;)
reminding me of younger days days cleaning misplaced polyurethanes and such with MEK, rag and no gloves.
younger and dumber days
steve
Quote from: swill88 on March 30, 2018, 06:05:49 PM
Quote from: Midway Tommy on March 30, 2018, 04:15:37 PM
Quote from: Alto Mare on March 30, 2018, 11:18:27 AM
:D :D...I have no doubts if the lacquer would work, especially when suggested by you or Fred, but I just can't stand the stench.
So, it's still a thumb down for me :), but not telling anyone else not to use it.
I'm not advising anyone to use it, either. :) It's nasty stuff and probably not for the faint at heart or health freaks. I, like Fred, have worked with, and around it, all my life in the construction trades. Heck, my mother cleaned our new construction houses and used it on rags, with no gloves, cleaning fiberglass shower stalls, laminate counter tops, bath tubs, etc., for about 30 years. She's 87 & still going strong if that says anything, not cleaning houses for the last 20 years, though. The trick is to know the adverse effects it can have and respect that aspect. I've spent some time in a 40 sq ft bathroom with my mom and that stuff, and believe me, it definitely was no picnic. :P Having fresh air available is the key! ;)
reminding me of younger days days cleaning misplaced polyurethanes and such with MEK, rag and no gloves.
younger and dumber days
steve
I'm not concerned about it. Heck, I still scrub my greasy hands with LT after I've been working on the vehicles, regular & lawn tractors, outboards, etc. As long as it's only now and then it shouldn't be a big deal. Government goes overboard on scare tactics. I hear the left coast folks can't even drink coffee now without being warned. :o
87! Probably good genitics and a heartiness ya need to live in the Nebraska winters.
I haven't used LQ much for decades, but it used to dry out my skin and make my delicate little pink fingers crack.
-steve
Quote from: oc1 on March 30, 2018, 10:40:20 PM
I haven't used LQ much for decades, but it used to dry out my skin and make my delicate little pink fingers crack.
-steve
It definitely does that! You find any little nicks pretty quickly, too. ::) I try to keep it away from cuts and use a little hand lotion afterwards. ;)
As to simple green, I have come to the conclusion that Dawn and warm water works better. My two cents worth.
You want a horror story? When I was a kid, I was the clean it guy for Dad and my next to oldest brother. They were always working on one of my brothers old cars or Dads Willy's jeep. Open bucket with gasoline. And they both smoked! No gloves, safety glasses.
You guys should try a little bag balm after handling solvents.
Dairymen have used it for years. Along with anyone who works with their hands outside — painters, farmers, woodsmen, etc..
Best I have ever found.
From Vermont.
Best,
Fred
Fred,
I mean no disrespect, but I would catch 10 kinds of hell if I pulled that out with my kids around. ;D
I didn't know that is the correct way to spell teats. Would of used an 'I'.
-steve
Behave Steve! ;D
I'm going to have to find some of this for Nostalgic purposes only.
Plus, My hands are chapped.
It is still in the 40's in the Bluegrass State.
Quote from: Shark Hunter on March 31, 2018, 03:43:31 AM
Fred,
I mean no disrespect, but I would catch 10 kinds of hell if I pulled that out with my kids around. ;D
That's the real world out there, Daron. :o You can't keep those kids sheltered forever. ;D It's good stuff, 4Hers use it all the time. We always have a can of it around.
Corn Huskers Lotion is another good multipurpose moisturizer. (https://skincare.lovetoknow.com/Corn_Huskers_Lotion)
My youngest is 26. The other two are in their 30's with kids of their own now.