hello every one
as some of you know i'm from Egypt I've been searching recently for a reasonable heavy duty spinning reel for jigging(for BFT up to 400 lbs) and the result was: NOTHING
only a few spinners are capable of that like Stella and saltiga dogfight which are above 1200$, the i asked my self why should i buy a spinner!!!! i can get the same performance from a conventional reel with much safer frame strength at about half or even third that price !!!!
have any one tried heavy jigging with a conventional reel?
i'm thinking of getting a reel that can be used for jigging and live-bait chunking
i thought about a makaira 20ii sea , i have the makaira 50wii used it for BFT and i really like this reel, but i don't know if the 20 ii can be used for jigging or not! i's 45 ounces compared to the stella 20000 at nearly 30 ounces!
also the reel i may consider is the shimano talica 2 speed 20 and 25, i belive that the 25 is jus a wide version of the 20 these reels are much lighter than the makairas but have much less line capacity
any advice on a reel that can combine these 2 types of fishing?
thanks in advance
Mohamed hashem
There was just a thread on this subject.
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=10140.0
Quote from: Shark Hunter on March 21, 2014, 11:44:29 PM
There was just a thread on this subject.
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=10140.0
thank you for your quick reply, that guy has great skills :)
i've read every post in the topic you mentioned but i found nothing comparing spinners to conventional reels as i understood it was about the impossibility of jigging with a 10/0 reel :)
may main concern is the availability to do some heavy jigging with a conventional reel , and what reel can do this in addition to some chunking :)
I have never used a spinner for jigging and never will, I really believe the only reason they are as popular as they are is because the learning curve is so much easier with a spinner. I can't see any advantages with a spinner over an overhead reel apart from casting light weights. I believe the mechanical design of an overhead reel is much stronger than a spinner will ever be.
if u wanna jig. use a overhead reel
better drag
better line control
better cranking power
1/3-1/2 the price of a stella
I agree that a conventional reel is the preferred choice. 400 pound tuna means at least 130 pound braid I'm guessing. I'd say in the Senator world you are looking at at least a built 114HLW and a 9/0 would be better. It seems you are concerned about weight primarily, What line capacity are you looking for? The 114 HLW wil hold almost 1000 yards of 130 braid, if you could do less then that then maybe we could look at smaller reels.
Ron
Quote from: Magilla on March 22, 2014, 12:40:43 AM
I have never used a spinner for jigging and never will, I really believe the only reason they are as popular as they are is because the learning curve is so much easier with a spinner. I can't see any advantages with a spinner over an overhead reel apart from casting light weights. I believe the mechanical design of an overhead reel is much stronger than a spinner will ever be.
I really like my spinners, but I agree with your comment, a conventional reel would be much stronger than a spinner.
I use an Accurate 50 for flying live bait, chunking, and yo-yo / jigging with a heavy jig. Accurate at one time offered an ATD50 two speed reel with a low gear of 1.2:1 and a high gear of 4.4:1. I would have to check my reel to confirm the low gear ratio but I am sure the high gear ratio is correct.
John
on top of my head Jigging Mater PE8 or PE10. next the Accurate 500 and 600 series namely Boss BX, DAWG POUND 2 Speed Reels and lastly but not the least DAUNTLESS 2 Speed Reels. here is a link to Accurate's site and then just click PRODUCTS.
http://www.accuratefishing.com/
also you can look at Maxel's jigging reels. Maxel is the manufaturer for Jigging Master...hope this helps!
Quote from: noyb72 on March 22, 2014, 02:34:55 AM
I agree that a conventional reel is the preferred choice. 400 pound tuna means at least 130 pound braid I'm guessing. I'd say in the Senator world you are looking at at least a built 114HLW and a 9/0 would be better. It seems you are concerned about weight primarily, What line capacity are you looking for? The 114 HLW wil hold almost 1000 yards of 130 braid, if you could do less then that then maybe we could look at smaller reels.
Ron
actually i was looking for a smaller lever drag reel and it's better to be 2-speed reel to have the winching power to get those tunas up , the makaira 20 is at the same weight of senator 114 with full metal frame more drag and 2-speeds , but is it possible to jig for BFT with a 45 ounces reel???
While I personally have no experience jigging Giant Bluefin Tuna, it is a subject that interested me, so I have read a little about it. The hardcore jiggers that use conventional reels mostly use the larger size Jigging Masters. I have a friend that has a Maxel jigging reel, which is a Jigging Master imitation for half the cost of the JM. He has had no problems with this reel. In fact, some have stated that the Maxel, may be even made in the same factory as the JM, but I have no verification of this.
I think the traditional big game reels, i.e. Makaira, Penn International, Tiagra etc. are not ideal for the type of jigging you would be doing. The "West coast" Yellowfin tuna jigging is essentially dropping a heavy "iron" such as a Salas PL68 and cranking it straight up with little or no rod action. Much different than Speed or Vertical jigging you would most likely be doing.
Good luck, hope you get the big one and share some pictures with us.
Scott
I too don't have any experience with this type of jigging or any type of on the boat saltwater fishing(that's about to change) but was so interested to learn more about it so i used google and youtube. to make the long story short it led me to this site 360tuna.com and it seems one of the most respected person's name in this type of jigging is Kilsong, owner of jignpop located somewhere in NJ and the virtual store is jignpop.com. i highly recommend that you register at 360tuna.com for more info. hope this helps...
With a spinner vs a conventional reel with amost things being equal like stopping power, meterials used ect. a spinner will cost twice as much or more. I also like being able to adjust the reels drag during a fight accurately with a lever drag.
Different tools for different jobs or in the case of spinners versus conventional different muscle groups too. I fish both to maximise my time with a lure in the water. There is only so much you can do before one arm or the other is worn out.
@OP you have to define your jigging technique more precisely for us. You *can* fish iron with a Mak 20. The question is how long can you do it? Most likely not very long.
Spinning is very popular worldwide because of the ability to do more things with the jig more easily and how much faster you can get deep (ie with conventional the lure has to pull line off of the spool in addition to fighting current). It is not only a familiarity thing, until you have used a Stella, Saltiga or Torque class reel you do not understand how capable these tools are on extremely big fish.
If you want to to jig with a very active style you should be looking at Shimano Talica 2-speed in the 20-25 size or a Penn Torque LD 2 in the 40 size. I couldn't recommend the Torque more highly.
Fundamentally you have to decide if you want something that is as light as possible and that will keep you fishing longer versus something that is ideal for the fight or the biggest possible fish but you simply cannot fish for very long due to it's heavy weight. Until you spend some time doing it and assessing your own fitness no one else can tell you what is best.
regards
ps SamiG of Saltywatertackle.com just landed a 442lb BFTon a Stella and 7' popping rod. Not saying anyone can do it but that the gear is up to it if the Angler is.
Quote from: Magilla on March 22, 2014, 12:40:43 AM
I have never used a spinner for jigging and never will, I really believe the only reason they are as popular as they are is because the learning curve is so much easier with a spinner. I can't see any advantages with a spinner over an overhead reel apart from casting light weights. I believe the mechanical design of an overhead reel is much stronger than a spinner will ever be.
thank you
i see the same too :)
Quote from: john2244 on March 22, 2014, 03:52:51 AM
I use an Accurate 50 for flying live bait, chunking, and yo-yo / jigging with a heavy jig. Accurate at one time offered an ATD50 two speed reel with a low gear of 1.2:1 and a high gear of 4.4:1. I would have to check my reel to confirm the low gear ratio but I am sure the high gear ratio is correct.
John
you jig with an atd 50!!! you must be a strong man :)
what kind of jigging are you doing ? throwing iron jigs and reelin them back or the japenese way (movin rod up and down all the way)??
Quote from: Mel B on March 22, 2014, 04:08:53 AM
on top of my head Jigging Mater PE8 or PE10. next the Accurate 500 and 600 series namely Boss BX, DAWG POUND 2 Speed Reels and lastly but not the least DAUNTLESS 2 Speed Reels. here is a link to Accurate's site and then just click PRODUCTS.
http://www.accuratefishing.com/
also you can look at Maxel's jigging reels. Maxel is the manufaturer for Jigging Master...hope this helps!
thank you for these recommendations :)
Quote from: thedw on March 22, 2014, 02:06:07 AM
if u wanna jig. use a overhead reel
better drag
better line control
better cranking power
1/3-1/2 the price of a stella
thank you
Quote from: conchydong on March 22, 2014, 12:15:48 PM
While I personally have no experience jigging Giant Bluefin Tuna, it is a subject that interested me, so I have read a little about it. The hardcore jiggers that use conventional reels mostly use the larger size Jigging Masters. I have a friend that has a Maxel jigging reel, which is a Jigging Master imitation for half the cost of the JM. He has had no problems with this reel. In fact, some have stated that the Maxel, may be even made in the same factory as the JM, but I have no verification of this.
I think the traditional big game reels, i.e. Makaira, Penn International, Tiagra etc. are not ideal for the type of jigging you would be doing. The "West coast" Yellowfin tuna jigging is essentially dropping a heavy "iron" such as a Salas PL68 and cranking it straight up with little or no rod action. Much different than Speed or Vertical jigging you would most likely be doing.
Good luck, hope you get the big one and share some pictures with us.
Scott
thank you for your help :)
actually i don't even know what jigging technique should i use for BFT most anglers here in egypt use spinners and the japenese technique (moving rod up and down) i don't know if the heavy iron jig technique is effective for BFT or not ! do you hink it can be used beacause if it's effective i can use my 50s makiras with no problem!!
Quote from: Mel B on March 22, 2014, 12:51:09 PM
I too don't have any experience with this type of jigging or any type of on the boat saltwater fishing(that's about to change) but was so interested to learn more about it so i used google and youtube. to make the long story short it led me to this site 360tuna.com and it seems one of the most respected person's name in this type of jigging is Kilsong, owner of jignpop located somewhere in NJ and the virtual store is jignpop.com. i highly recommend that you register at 360tuna.com for more info. hope this helps...
thank you :) actually i have registered in 360tuna.com 2 days ago :)
Quote from: SoCalAngler on March 22, 2014, 02:59:35 PM
With a spinner vs a conventional reel with amost things being equal like stopping power, meterials used ect. a spinner will cost twice as much or more. I also like being able to adjust the reels drag during a fight accurately with a lever drag.
thank you
actually that's what i found after doing some searches :)
Quote from: johndtuttle on March 22, 2014, 04:13:41 PM
Different tools for different jobs or in the case of spinners versus conventional different muscle groups too. I fish both to maximise my time with a lure in the water. There is only so much you can do before one arm or the other is worn out.
@OP you have to define your jigging technique more precisely for us. You *can* fish iron with a Mak 20. The question is how long can you do it? Most likely not very long.
Spinning is very popular worldwide because of the ability to do more things with the jig more easily and how much faster you can get deep (ie with conventional the lure has to pull line off of the spool in addition to fighting current). It is not only a familiarity thing, until you have used a Stella, Saltiga or Torque class reel you do not understand how capable these tools are on extremely big fish.
If you want to to jig with a very active style you should be looking at Shimano Talica 2-speed in the 20-25 size or a Penn Torque LD 2 in the 40 size. I couldn't recommend the Torque more highly.
Fundamentally you have to decide if you want something that is as light as possible and that will keep you fishing longer versus something that is ideal for the fight or the biggest possible fish but you simply cannot fish for very long due to it's heavy weight. Until you spend some time doing it and assessing your own fitness no one else can tell you what is best.
regards
ps SamiG of Saltywatertackle.com just landed a 442lb BFTon a Stella and 7' popping rod. Not saying anyone can do it but that the gear is up to it if the Angler is.
thank you for your well explanation
actually i stil don't know the jigging technique that suites BFT!!
the main idea is that i'm not convinced to put double or triple the value of a strong conventional reel in a spinner that wasn't originally designed for this use IMO stellas and other heavy duty are overly built to resist this enormous load and i believe that this stress on the connection between the reel seat and the reel's body and the stress on the rotor will cause them eventually to fail , while an average conventional reel can take the same load without any problem or any future failures due to the simple design which transfers the load to more stable object , i know that jigging with conventional is harder but it's a matter of time to learn
thank you
I use my 113h narrow, and my 505 With the BP gears .just started to vertical jig last year and the tank and the 505 handled fish up to 40# without a problem 8)
now i'm totally convinced to get a conventional reel instead of a spinner
first i want to know what jigging technique suites BFT better
second i want to know what reels can be used any suggestion or recommendations will be appreciated
i 've thought of the following reels(i'm considering a 2 speed reel to help in winching tunas in case of live baiting)
1-okuma makaira 16ii sea weight:40 o.z line retrieve at high:39.2 line capcity in yds/lb 600/100
2-okuma makaira 20ii sea weight:45 o.z line retrieve at high:39.4 line capcity in yds/lb 700/100
3-shimano talica 20ii weight:32 o.z line retrieve at high:46 line capcity in yds/lb 435/100
4-shimano talica 20ii weight:32 o.z line retrieve at high:46 line capcity in yds/lb 610/100
5-penn intl torque 40 ld weight:26 o.z line retrieve at high:42 line capcity in yds/lb 565/80
i rally love the talicas but i was turend away from them after knowing that their frame is diecast aluminum not machined
i belive that makairas are the strongest among all but much heavier in weight
i don't know much about the torque but i like it's very lightweight
You can see the full service and initial review of the Penn Torque LD2 on this site, if a slightly smaller size. The Accurate are also light and very strong.
Jigging techniques for BFT are the same as for any other species ie a quick moving jig in the right size and color. The trick is finding active fish that will bite a standard 200gm jig (silver/pink during the day, glow at night). You have to find them, moving often.
Jignpop.com has some very reasonable jigs that are proven.
Top water will cover more fish but in a top water bite jigs will get bit.
I believe there are a couple of things that big spinners have that are, in my opinion advantageous to catching large fish like these and also for the jigging method.
One is the necessity of a strong anti reverse clutch, and spinners can accommodate a bigger, stronger one than conventional reels.
The other thing is that as far as I can see, these large spinners made for jigging have a higher drag rating [pound for pound] than most conventional reels.
Other things to consider is the ease of using an under rod reel and that you don`t need to guide line on to the reel.
I love my two Jigging Master reels, but I can see many good points to the specialist large spinners for the serious jigger.
cheers
Basto
Personally of the reels on your list...
I like the torque the best. Lightweight, strong, well designed, with good attention to details, not overly complicated, and has many nice little features/details. Such as top notch drive train, solid spool shaft, theist washer and good overall design to negate the effects of the side load produced at higher settings on performance and logevity of bearings. However the lower line capacity might be a factor, smaller spool diameter also works against you a bit in terms of efficiency, and changes w/loss of line (the markings on the spool keep you on track here though). Also I'm not sure I like the fact both Antireverse dogs are not mounted directly or nearly opposite from one another. I think the penn has top notch anodizing of alum, and quality/strength/durability/simplicity of internal parts, but should prob be serviced to ensure there are no dry spots. I also like the drag curve and overall cam assembly design better (a little less steep, and smooth transition from strike on by).
The Makiaras are good reels too, but a bit heavier/bulkier. These reels have the best antireverse system, and I like the large surface area of CF drag washer, and truely sealed drag chamber, the longer handle arm and lower gear ratios along with the larger spool diameter, should give it greater power, while negating changes due to line loss (as compared to the Torque). I believe this reel might also produce a slightly higher max effective drag though the steeper curve might limit range slightly. There are more potential sources of electrolisis in this reel (w/more dissimilar metals in contact w/one another, and I don't think the drive train main/pinion gears, and drive shaft are quite as durable (though still top notch).
Also don't count out the Avet Raptor series, the Accurates, or dare I say...the smaller FinNors.
Note:
I have no real world experience w/either reel.
Quote from: johndtuttle on March 22, 2014, 11:19:10 PM
You can see the full service and initial review of the Penn Torque LD2 on this site, if a slightly smaller size. The Accurate are also light and very strong.
Jigging techniques for BFT are the same as for any other species ie a quick moving jig in the right size and color. The trick is finding active fish that will bite a standard 200gm jig (silver/pink during the day, glow at night). You have to find them, moving often.
Jignpop.com has some very reasonable jigs that are proven.
Top water will cover more fish but in a top water bite jigs will get bit.
thank you for help
i've just seen it , it's a great reel but i feel it is somehow delicate i don't know whether it can stand the stress from a a big tuna or not ! and actually i don't like the bolted foot to the frame it's not accessible to service, i want know whether i need to move the rod up and down with reeling (Japanese style) or just fast reeling an iron jig , most anglers in Egypt use the Japanese technique i's very effective but i need o know as if the iron jig style is effective too , then i'll buy a bigger heavier reel without being affected by the weight, tunas that chase jigs are mid-sized in the 200-300 range , bigger ones don't chase fast moving jigs or spoons they need live bait but those big ones are rare about 10% of total, what do you mean with top-water?,you mean surface popping??
thank you
mohamed hashem
Quote from: basto on March 23, 2014, 04:35:22 AM
I believe there are a couple of things that big spinners have that are, in my opinion advantageous to catching large fish like these and also for the jigging method.
One is the necessity of a strong anti reverse clutch, and spinners can accommodate a bigger, stronger one than conventional reels.
The other thing is that as far as I can see, these large spinners made for jigging have a higher drag rating [pound for pound] than most conventional reels.
Other things to consider is the ease of using an under rod reel and that you don`t need to guide line on to the reel.
I love my two Jigging Master reels, but I can see many good points to the specialist large spinners for the serious jigger.
cheers
Basto
of course i'm not knocking down spinners but the problem is you pay too much to get x performance from a spinner while you can get a conventional with the same x performance at half the price, pf course spinners are easier to us and do tricks , concerning the one way clutch i thing that a conventional reel with a double dog system and an anti reverse bearing will do the same no less,of course the drag numers of heavy duty spinners but for a stand up fight whit is the max drag can a man hold in a long fight with BFT i think that very few people can stand more than 35 lbs of drag so the 60 lbs of drag at some spinners is not useful, i have a friend who use jigging master conventional he say that he couldn't be happier.
To your list above you may also want to add a Avet Raptor HX or HXW to look at.
Quote from: mohamedhashem21 on March 23, 2014, 11:21:18 AM
Quote from: basto on March 23, 2014, 04:35:22 AM
I believe there are a couple of things that big spinners have that are, in my opinion advantageous to catching large fish like these and also for the jigging method.
One is the necessity of a strong anti reverse clutch, and spinners can accommodate a bigger, stronger one than conventional reels.
The other thing is that as far as I can see, these large spinners made for jigging have a higher drag rating [pound for pound] than most conventional reels.
Other things to consider is the ease of using an under rod reel and that you don`t need to guide line on to the reel.
I love my two Jigging Master reels, but I can see many good points to the specialist large spinners for the serious jigger.
cheers
Basto
of course i'm not knocking down spinners but the problem is you pay too much to get x performance from a spinner while you can get a conventional with the same x performance at half the price, pf course spinners are easier to us and do tricks , concerning the one way clutch i thing that a conventional reel with a double dog system and an anti reverse bearing will do the same no less,of course the drag numers of heavy duty spinners but for a stand up fight whit is the max drag can a man hold in a long fight with BFT i think that very few people can stand more than 35 lbs of drag so the 60 lbs of drag at some spinners is not useful, i have a friend who use jigging master conventional he say that he couldn't be happier.
The dual drag Jigging master reels are decent but they destroy pinion bearings at a high rate and do not have an acceptable 2-speed option for vertical jigging. It may not seem a very big deal on small fish (50-75kg) but when you get a 150kg BFT on you will want it.
The internals of the Torque are vastly superior to any reel in it's class, have a thrust bearing to nearly completely eliminate the axial loads that destroy pinion bearings and will be truly superior for very big fish within their capacity. If you think the internals of the Torque appear fragile then you simply do not understand what you are seeing. Those internals are far stronger than you appreciate.
The only reel that is possibly stronger in this size range is the Okuma, but I consider the weight prohibitive for vertical jigging.
I would like to add a wrinkle into this discussion:
How many days of open water do you fish per year? Of those days how much jigging will you be doing vs drifting bait vs trolling?
For a dedicated jigger/popper like SamiG who probably spent more time fishing a year in a lot of big fish areas than most of us will in a decade, the amount of truly big tuna (250+ lbs) he has caught is probably in the low double digits. He caught a lot of 80-150 pounders though. I think you should look at it from the perspective of will the gear you choose be capable of those few times that you may run into a truly big tuna vs the reality of catching of the smaller grade.
The one thing that the super spinners outshine the overheads is in popper fishing. It is almost impossible to do so with an overhead reel. You could in theory head out to the fishing ground armed with say a stella 12000 and two rods. a 5'6 to 6 ft jigging rod and a 7 to 7'6 popper rod and you should have your bases cover.
Quote from: basto on March 23, 2014, 04:35:22 AM
I believe there are a couple of things that big spinners have that are, in my opinion advantageous to catching large fish like these and also for the jigging method.
One is the necessity of a strong anti reverse clutch, and spinners can accommodate a bigger, stronger one than conventional reels.
The other thing is that as far as I can see, these large spinners made for jigging have a higher drag rating [pound for pound] than most conventional reels.
Other things to consider is the ease of using an under rod reel and that you don`t need to guide line on to the reel.
I love my two Jigging Master reels, but I can see many good points to the specialist large spinners for the serious jigger.
cheers
Basto
Many of these guys have never fished a Stella for big 'uns and just don't get it.
SamiG just landed a 442lb BFT with his 7' popping rod and Stella. A Stella or Torque or Saltiga does not limit the angler, the angler's fitness and technique limits what the reel can do.
It's about the ability to use certain techniques that you cannot do with a Conventional. Casting poppers, working stick baits, super erratic retrieves etc. all while being able to run and gun and cast to breaking fish at any direction from the boat regardless of wind.
That is what catches you Tuna from a small boat especially when there is no live bait option. Versatile gear in run and gun fishing.
Quote from: maxpowers on March 23, 2014, 03:05:43 PM
I would like to add a wrinkle into this discussion:
How many days of open water do you fish per year? Of those days how much jigging will you be doing vs drifting bait vs trolling?
For a dedicated jigger/popper like SamiG who probably spent more time fishing a year in a lot of big fish areas than most of us will in a decade, the amount of truly big tuna (250+ lbs) he has caught is probably in the low double digits. He caught a lot of 80-150 pounders though. I think you should look at it from the perspective of will the gear you choose be capable of those few times that you may run into a truly big tuna vs the reality of catching of the smaller grade.
The one thing that the super spinners outshine the overheads is in popper fishing. It is almost impossible to do so with an overhead reel. You could in theory head out to the fishing ground armed with say a stella 12000 and two rods. a 5'6 to 6 ft jigging rod and a 7 to 7'6 popper rod and you should have your bases cover.
Quoted for truth.
Buying a reel big enough to handle the 1% chance you will need 800meters of 40kg braid is senseless for vertical jigging. You will be so beat up fishing something that heavy you will be in the water a tiny *fraction* of the time you will be able to fish something that holds 600m of 25kg.
That extra time with a jig or popper in the water is gonna land hundreds and hundreds of more fish which is what we see year in and year out.
Quote from: johndtuttle on March 23, 2014, 03:15:51 PM
Quote from: maxpowers on March 23, 2014, 03:05:43 PM
I would like to add a wrinkle into this discussion:
How many days of open water do you fish per year? Of those days how much jigging will you be doing vs drifting bait vs trolling?
For a dedicated jigger/popper like SamiG who probably spent more time fishing a year in a lot of big fish areas than most of us will in a decade, the amount of truly big tuna (250+ lbs) he has caught is probably in the low double digits. He caught a lot of 80-150 pounders though. I think you should look at it from the perspective of will the gear you choose be capable of those few times that you may run into a truly big tuna vs the reality of catching of the smaller grade.
The one thing that the super spinners outshine the overheads is in popper fishing. It is almost impossible to do so with an overhead reel. You could in theory head out to the fishing ground armed with say a stella 12000 and two rods. a 5'6 to 6 ft jigging rod and a 7 to 7'6 popper rod and you should have your bases cover.
Quoted for truth.
Buying a reel big enough to handle the 1% chance you will need 800meters of 40kg braid is senseless for vertical jigging. You will be so beat up fishing something that heavy you will be in the water a tiny *fraction* of the time you will be able to fish something that holds 600m of 30kg.
That extra time with a jig or popper in the water is gonna land hundreds and hundreds of more fish which is what we see year in and year out.
Well said!!!
For my size,fishing w/o fighting chair, I won't use anything above 60lb JB for trolling and 40lb for jigging.
For one chartering boat for fishing, the boat will probably be sailing with the fish if one strike anything huge.
As for myself, I do my fishing most of the time at work. Meaning the vessel won't be sailing with the fish, nor she will slow down for my catch. I'm happy so far with the 16vsx with 60lb JB for trolling, and Alutecnos v8 with 40lb JB for vertical jigging on rare occation. My little trick is to make a loop at the last 50-60 yards for my smaller setup, with bigger setup on standby beside me. In case the smaller setup ran out of lines, I'll clip on to the swivel of the bigger setup to continue the fight.
Just to throw the cat among the pigeons we jig on the barrier reef, albeit not for BFT400lb Tuna...however...we do get a number of big sharks and whilst they don't attain the same runaway speeds and possibly not of the same caliber as Tuna I think they are a fair test on a reel.
For $66.00 on an ebay auction I purchased a new Chinese "super spinner",its drag was rated out to 60lb,Holds 430mtrs x 0.40, this reel has had numerous sharks on it and I've been towed around a boat rod buckled for over an hour and was left totally punished with the drag not even maxed, with the reel performing flawlessly.
Point being if you going for a spinner than IMO you don't have to go top shelf to find one to handle the job and reasonably talking stand up, how much can people really hang onto and for how long, I would think the gear outperforms the fisherman in a lot of instances.
Just to add some Data to the discussion that can be interpreted for any fishery.
For us we have a tremendous resource in that our sportfishing fleet on the West Coast USA is a highly competitive and organized group that keeps "catch records" of all landings of fish.
What this shows is that for YFT (which most that have caught them say they fight twice as hard as BFT) that ~95% of the catch is under 50kgs, 98% of the catch is under 75kgs, 99% of the catch is under 100kgs and 99.999% of the catch is under 150Kgs. This is with predominantly live bait.
Giant Tuna are rare in any waters. Giant Tuna rarely hit artificial lures. They have seen them before.
Moral of the story: Do not buy a huge reel for just about the most physically demanding fishing technique known on the chance that you might need that size for the 1 in 10,000 fish that may bite your jig. You will not catch the other 9999 fish because you are too tired to lift your arms.
Quote from: maxpowers on March 23, 2014, 03:05:43 PM
I would like to add a wrinkle into this discussion:
How many days of open water do you fish per year? Of those days how much jigging will you be doing vs drifting bait vs trolling?
For a dedicated jigger/popper like SamiG who probably spent more time fishing a year in a lot of big fish areas than most of us will in a decade, the amount of truly big tuna (250+ lbs) he has caught is probably in the low double digits. He caught a lot of 80-150 pounders though. I think you should look at it from the perspective of will the gear you choose be capable of those few times that you may run into a truly big tuna vs the reality of catching of the smaller grade.
The one thing that the super spinners outshine the overheads is in popper fishing. It is almost impossible to do so with an overhead reel. You could in theory head out to the fishing ground armed with say a stella 12000 and two rods. a 5'6 to 6 ft jigging rod and a 7 to 7'6 popper rod and you should have your bases cover.
I think max's new "wrinkle" nailed down a solid point. Versatility.
1 reel, (just to be safe I'd take a Stella 18k), 2 rods and you could bring home anything that swims around this island.
I've been there and seen it plenty of times...anything from 80lb GT's on a popper (or a jig for that matter), huge doggie's, big AJ's, 160lb+ YFT, to 400lb marlin.... you doubters would be surprised!
For jigging, a good spinner is hard to beat... you'll beat every overhead to the bottom, and you'll get double or more the amount of drops.
And the biggest secret is... your spinner doesn't have to cost $1000!
My Fin-nors go head to head with Stellas everyday I fish here...not bad for $159.
p.s.- I hardly ever jig with my Torqu200 now..its a backup.. and I can't even imagine trying to go a few hours nonstop with my Tank.
If I'm jigging, I'm spinning... It's just that much easier1
Hope this helps.
Quote from: SoCalAngler on March 23, 2014, 01:57:51 PM
To your list above you may also want to add a Avet Raptor HX or HXW to look at.
thank you i'll put this in consideration
Quote from: johndtuttle on March 23, 2014, 02:55:45 PM
The dual drag Jigging master reels are decent but they destroy pinion bearings at a high rate and do not have an acceptable 2-speed option for vertical jigging. It may not seem a very big deal on small fish (50-75kg) but when you get a 150kg BFT on you will want it.
The internals of the Torque are vastly superior to any reel in it's class, have a thrust bearing to nearly completely eliminate the axial loads that destroy pinion bearings and will be truly superior for very big fish within their capacity. If you think the internals of the Torque appear fragile then you simply do not understand what you are seeing. Those internals are far stronger than you appreciate.
The only reel that is possibly stronger in this size range is the Okuma, but I consider the weight prohibitive for vertical jigging.
i've said this about the torque as i've never serviced a reel at that class, the smallest reel i've ever opened and serviced it was a penn vsx 16 which seems to me more over built than the torque , all other reels i serviced were bigger up to 80w's , so forgive me for missjudging the torque, i know that it has very high technology my only concern was that i felt the sideplates and the frme is much thinner than the vsx which seems to not be an issue now :), i konw makairas are strong but they are really hevy the mak 166i is the closest to the trq40 in specs but 14 o.z heavier which is to much for longtime jigging
my conventional choices now are the torque40 LD and the talica 20ii
Quote from: johndtuttle on March 23, 2014, 03:15:51 PM
Quoted for truth.
Buying a reel big enough to handle the 1% chance you will need 800meters of 40kg braid is senseless for vertical jigging. You will be so beat up fishing something that heavy you will be in the water a tiny *fraction* of the time you will be able to fish something that holds 600m of 25kg.
That extra time with a jig or popper in the water is gonna land hundreds and hundreds of more fish which is what we see year in and year out.
thank you for explanation i'll get a lightweight reel to jig for average tunas and fish those big ones with live bait using big reels.
Quote from: maxpowers on March 23, 2014, 03:05:43 PM
I would like to add a wrinkle into this discussion:
How many days of open water do you fish per year? Of those days how much jigging will you be doing vs drifting bait vs trolling?
For a dedicated jigger/popper like SamiG who probably spent more time fishing a year in a lot of big fish areas than most of us will in a decade, the amount of truly big tuna (250+ lbs) he has caught is probably in the low double digits. He caught a lot of 80-150 pounders though. I think you should look at it from the perspective of will the gear you choose be capable of those few times that you may run into a truly big tuna vs the reality of catching of the smaller grade.
The one thing that the super spinners outshine the overheads is in popper fishing. It is almost impossible to do so with an overhead reel. You could in theory head out to the fishing ground armed with say a stella 12000 and two rods. a 5'6 to 6 ft jigging rod and a 7 to 7'6 popper rod and you should have your bases cover.
now i understand
for those big tunas i can throw live bait on a 50w or 80w and i have both, but i'll jig for the midsized ones i'm now thinking of gettinag a penn torque spinning reel at hlaf of the price of the stella
Quote from: johndtuttle on March 23, 2014, 03:11:03 PM
Many of these guys have never fished a Stella for big 'uns and just don't get it.
SamiG just landed a 442lb BFT with his 7' popping rod and Stella. A Stella or Torque or Saltiga does not limit the angler, the angler's fitness and technique limits what the reel can do.
It's about the ability to use certain techniques that you cannot do with a Conventional. Casting poppers, working stick baits, super erratic retrieves etc. all while being able to run and gun and cast to breaking fish at any direction from the boat regardless of wind.
That is what catches you Tuna from a small boat especially when there is no live bait option. Versatile gear in run and gun fishing.
does the penn torqe 9 spinner make a good jigging reel or popping one!! some people told me that it can do both it has 50 lbs of drag and lightweight with a very strong frame and body, it's about half the price of the stella and nearly the same as the talica20ii and seems to be the same as stella on papers except the extra bearings on the stella!!
Quote from: Nuvole on March 23, 2014, 05:35:20 PM
Well said!!!
For my size,fishing w/o fighting chair, I won't use anything above 60lb JB for trolling and 40lb for jigging.
For one chartering boat for fishing, the boat will probably be sailing with the fish if one strike anything huge.
As for myself, I do my fishing most of the time at work. Meaning the vessel won't be sailing with the fish, nor she will slow down for my catch. I'm happy so far with the 16vsx with 60lb JB for trolling, and Alutecnos v8 with 40lb JB for vertical jigging on rare occation. My little trick is to make a loop at the last 50-60 yards for my smaller setup, with bigger setup on standby beside me. In case the smaller setup ran out of lines, I'll clip on to the swivel of the bigger setup to continue the fight.
thank you for info :)
i wish i can do the same
but i think that in cas of jigging for bft with the drag setting for 40 lbs liine(i thing from 10 to 13 lbs) i'll get spooled in few minutes :)
Quote from: OldSchool on March 23, 2014, 05:45:32 PM
Just to throw the cat among the pigeons we jig on the barrier reef, albeit not for BFT400lb Tuna...however...we do get a number of big sharks and whilst they don't attain the same runaway speeds and possibly not of the same caliber as Tuna I think they are a fair test on a reel.
For $66.00 on an ebay auction I purchased a new Chinese "super spinner",its drag was rated out to 60lb,Holds 430mtrs x 0.40, this reel has had numerous sharks on it and I've been towed around a boat rod buckled for over an hour and was left totally punished with the drag not even maxed, with the reel performing flawlessly.
Point being if you going for a spinner than IMO you don't have to go top shelf to find one to handle the job and reasonably talking stand up, how much can people really hang onto and for how long, I would think the gear outperforms the fisherman in a lot of instances.
thanks for sharing this info :)
we do some jigging around reefs in red sea for small yft , iant barracudas and most of coral fish , i use a cheap okuma cerdors spininning reels packed with 65 lbs braid.
Quote from: johndtuttle on March 23, 2014, 05:57:48 PM
Just to add some Data to the discussion that can be interpreted for any fishery.
For us we have a tremendous resource in that our sportfishing fleet on the West Coast USA is a highly competitive and organized group that keeps "catch records" of all landings of fish.
What this shows is that for YFT (which most that have caught them say they fight twice as hard as BFT) that ~95% of the catch is under 50kgs, 98% of the catch is under 75kgs, 99% of the catch is under 100kgs and 99.999% of the catch is under 150Kgs. This is with predominantly live bait.
Giant Tuna are rare in any waters. Giant Tuna rarely hit artificial lures. They have seen them before.
Moral of the story: Do not buy a huge reel for just about the most physically demanding fishing technique known on the chance that you might need that size for the 1 in 10,000 fish that may bite your jig. You will not catch the other 9999 fish because you are too tired to lift your arms.
now i understand
for those big tunas i can throw live bait on a 50w or 80w and i have both, but i'll jig for the midsized ones i'm now thinking of gettinag a penn torque spinning reel at hlaf of the price of the stella
Quote from: erikpowell on March 23, 2014, 08:42:40 PM
I think max's new "wrinkle" nailed down a solid point. Versatility.
1 reel, (just to be safe I'd take a Stella 18k), 2 rods and you could bring home anything that swims around this island.
I've been there and seen it plenty of times...anything from 80lb GT's on a popper (or a jig for that matter), huge doggie's, big AJ's, 160lb+ YFT, to 400lb marlin.... you doubters would be surprised!
For jigging, a good spinner is hard to beat... you'll beat every overhead to the bottom, and you'll get double or more the amount of drops.
And the biggest secret is... your spinner doesn't have to cost $1000!
My Fin-nors go head to head with Stellas everyday I fish here...not bad for $159.
p.s.- I hardly ever jig with my Torqu200 now..its a backup.. and I can't even imagine trying to go a few hours nonstop with my Tank.
If I'm jigging, I'm spinning... It's just that much easier1
Hope this helps.
thank you for explaination :)
what budget friendly pinners that can stand jigging for BFT ?
i'm thinking of a penn torque 9 spinning reel
is it good??
if you don't mind used ones, peruse thru 360tuna.com's marketplace. one stella was grabbed quickly because it was used once. good luck and tight lines...
Quote from: mohamedhashem21 on March 24, 2014, 02:43:28 PM
Quote from: johndtuttle on March 23, 2014, 03:11:03 PM
Many of these guys have never fished a Stella for big 'uns and just don't get it.
SamiG just landed a 442lb BFT with his 7' popping rod and Stella. A Stella or Torque or Saltiga does not limit the angler, the angler's fitness and technique limits what the reel can do.
It's about the ability to use certain techniques that you cannot do with a Conventional. Casting poppers, working stick baits, super erratic retrieves etc. all while being able to run and gun and cast to breaking fish at any direction from the boat regardless of wind.
That is what catches you Tuna from a small boat especially when there is no live bait option. Versatile gear in run and gun fishing.
does the penn torqe 9 spinner make a good jigging reel or popping one!! some people told me that it can do both it has 50 lbs of drag and lightweight with a very strong frame and body, it's about half the price of the stella and nearly the same as the talica20ii and seems to be the same as stella on papers except the extra bearings on the stella!!
What you should do is read Alan Hawk's review of the Stella 2013SW (the problems he found have not been seen in the smaller reels) and his review of the Torque (the problems he found have all been completely fixed) and judge for yourself. My own service tutorial for the Penn Torque Spinning is on this site and I borrow heavily from Alan's assessment of alloys and strength. He is a Mechanical Engineer by training, I believe.
He summed the Torque up best by calling it possibly the "best of all world's" meaning it can fish in the surf or from boat, land monsters and also be the simplest and easiest to maintain reel by far of the super spinners. A Stella has over 200 parts and something like 15 tiny seals to make it work. A marvel of engineering, a nightmare to service.
The Stella is ultimate performance for a price with the complexity to go with it. It also has a history of limited parts support now and a drivetrain that is "consumable" meaning the gearing is softer to improve the feel when new, but is ultimately not as durable.
The Torque is not quite as ultimately "refined" but is actually far stronger and more reliable and vastly, VASTLY, easier to keep alive.
I was pretty impressed with this hammerhead a guy reeled in from a pier in Florida with his torque. He has a hard time keeping his pants up though! :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldXsb0vNH-s
Daron, it looks like a Van Staal, but i maybe wrong...
That one does not have a torque handle. I use a torque 7 and have not caught any huge fish yet with it but it is a very smooth reel.
After looking at it again. There is a good shot of him holding it right before you see the Shark. I don't think its a Torque. Either way. Its a nice reel and a Nice Fish! ;D I just saw that gold spinner and immediately thought torque.
Quote from: johndtuttle on March 24, 2014, 04:03:20 PM
What you should do is read Alan Hawk's review of the Stella 2013SW (the problems he found have not been seen in the smaller reels) and his review of the Torque (the problems he found have all been completely fixed) and judge for yourself. My own service tutorial for the Penn Torque Spinning is on this site and I borrow heavily from Alan's assessment of alloys and strength.
He summed the Torque up best by calling it possibly the "best of all world's" meaning it can fish in the surf or from boat, land monsters and also be the simplest and easiest to maintain reel by far of the super spinners. A Stella has over 200 parts and something like 15 tiny seals to make it work. A marvel of engineering, a nightmare to service.
The Stella is ultimate performance for a price with the complexity to go with it. It also has a history of limited parts support now and a drivetrain that is "consumable" meaning the gearing is softer to improve the feel when new, but is ultimately not as durable.
The Torque is not quite as ultimately "refined" but is actually far stronger and more reliable and vastly, VASTLY, easier to keep alive.
hank you for the great help :)
The Torque just costs $500 dollars! :o
Quote from: mohamedhashem21 on March 24, 2014, 02:55:07 PM
Quote from: erikpowell on March 23, 2014, 08:42:40 PM
I think max's new "wrinkle" nailed down a solid point. Versatility.
1 reel, (just to be safe I'd take a Stella 18k), 2 rods and you could bring home anything that swims around this island.
I've been there and seen it plenty of times...anything from 80lb GT's on a popper (or a jig for that matter), huge doggie's, big AJ's, 160lb+ YFT, to 400lb marlin.... you doubters would be surprised!
For jigging, a good spinner is hard to beat... you'll beat every overhead to the bottom, and you'll get double or more the amount of drops.
And the biggest secret is... your spinner doesn't have to cost $1000!
My Fin-nors go head to head with Stellas everyday I fish here...not bad for $159.
p.s.- I hardly ever jig with my Torqu200 now..its a backup.. and I can't even imagine trying to go a few hours nonstop with my Tank.
If I'm jigging, I'm spinning... It's just that much easier1
Hope this helps.
thank you for explaination :)
what budget friendly pinners that can stand jigging for BFT ?
i'm thinking of a penn torque 9 spinning reel
is it good??
Hi mohammerd.... If the Torque is in your budget, I'd say GO man!
I should clarify one thing... personally i don't own a stella but i fish alongside them most days out..
for jigging and popping I only fish my Finnor Offshore spinners 5500 & 8500.... They are the only "budget" reels out there IMHO that have enough respectable drag power, stoutness, and reliability to be offshore fishing pelagics and popping for GT's.
I probably boat fish the salt 50-80 days a year and have been fishing these Fin-nor spinners for 7yrs now..failure free... In that same time I've seen at least half a dozen of my friends Stellas bite the dust and/or spend weeks in the shop awaiting parts, ultrasound and major surgery. ;D
I will never shell out the dough for a Stella... sure I'd accept one as a gift, but I'll never buy one.
On the other hand.. IF I had an extra $grand burning a hole in my pocket, I wouldn't hesitate to throw down for a
Penn Torque S7 or S9 ....and I'd still have plenty money left for a spool of JB 80lb...and a couple OTI poppers....and a handful of jigs ;)
Stella schmella... I was just expanding on max's point about spinners...
I've never caught a BFT, but if it's said they only fight half as hard as our YFT then I'll bust out my FinNor 8500 and my 100lb Shimano JigWrex and say "Bring on the BFT cow" ..... Seqa Na Leqa !..... (that's fijian)
...that said... I'd still much rather fight it on my DomTom 9/0 and harness. ;D
as a sidenote: I just realized that I don't know a single person on this island that owns a Diawa Saltiga....nor have I ever even seen one here. Heaps of Stellas though..
Cheers
Quote from: Shark Hunter on March 24, 2014, 10:04:04 PM
After looking at it again. There is a good shot of him holding it right before you see the Shark. I don't think its a Torque. Either way. Its a nice reel and a Nice Fish! ;D I just saw that gold spinner and immediately thought torque.
I'm thinking definitely Van Staal, those puppies are a grand or more.
Yes, VS 250. ;)
Thank you all for the great help I'm very convinced now with the torque s9 since I knew I can use it for jigging and popping , the tackle store showed me a reel called atc astromac it feels very nice many people tested it on smaller yfts (40-70 lbs) range and it was good I don't know anymore about these reels and don't know how will it perform on large bft ,it costs under 200$ anyone tried it?
Well they have all the blitz and bling of any good Chinese counterpart....are they Malaysian made?
bought a gosa 20000 for poppers and sticks/pencils. will try this style of fishing. also some people say that this is the poor man's stella... :) :D ;D
Saragosas are great I've fished with them for large amberjacks they were excellent but people who tried them on bft said they had some problems with the drag cap which melted in long fights !!!!
actually my target are < 80 lb species. for larger ones i prefer conventionals.
We've got a couple saragosa 20k's on the boat...better reel for the money than a Stella IMO
these reels pop, troll, and jig for us out there..it's a good reel for popping
not much chance of a GT melting the drag cap... but that's happened twice so far..drag cap melted on less than 100lb tuna.
Shimano replaced them. Haven't had a chance to address the issue as far as a fix...
but they're not my personal reels :D
Quote from: erikpowell on March 27, 2014, 08:00:04 PM
We've got a couple saragosa 20k's on the boat...better reel for the money than a Stella IMO
these reels pop, troll, and jig for us out there..it's a good reel for popping
not much chance of a GT melting the drag cap... but that's happened twice so far..drag cap melted on less than 100lb tuna.
Shimano replaced them. Haven't had a chance to address the issue as far as a fix...
but they're not my personal reels :D
thank you for the advice :) , actualy i don't like the graphite rotor in the saragosa and it has lower line reterive per crank 41 inch which is not ideal for popping for BFT, but it still a good value for its price :)
Quote from: erikpowell on March 27, 2014, 08:00:04 PM
...Haven't had a chance to address the issue as far as a fix...
let me know when you find a fix, just in case the cap on mine melts...
Mohamed
I fish the northeast canyons. During October and November, medium blue fins migrate through our canyons and we frequently catch them there in large numbers. Due to the regulations, we are allowed to keep one or two per trip and we release the rest that we hook. These fish are between 150 and 300 lbs. I have caught as many as 15 during one trip. Sometimes they are a nuisance, like blue sharks. We are trying to catch yellow fins, albacore and bigeyes and we will hook blue fins. They are more of a problem on full moon nights.
In my opinion, these blue fins are the easiest tuna to catch, especially inshore. They are not as line shy as the other tuna and they will always hit jigs.
You do not need any expensive or fancy gear to catch them. I use a penn senator 114 reel mounted on a Shakespeare 1120 ugly stick rod. The reel costs about $ 100 new. I modified my reels with stainless steel gear sleeves, daiwa 900h handles and one piece topless aluminum frames. I use 80 or 100 momoi high catch smoke blue line with no braid. The reel weighs 40 oz and with the 2 to 1 gear ratio and long 900h handle, I can literally winch these fish in. The rod costs about $ 65 new. I cut off about 10" off the tip and glue on a roller tip. I use an 8 oz db hammered Diamond jig which costs about $ 6. Jigging technique is simple. Just drop the jig down to the level where the fish are holding and yo yo the jig; that is, lift it with a slow to medium lift of the rod and quickly drop the rod tip so that the jig flutters back down. They will usually hit the jig as it flutters back down.
My cousins fish for them in the Mediterranean, in Italy, using the same gear and technique and they also do well.
Good luck.
That's good info marc77, thanks for joining in the discussion.
Mel, my local tackle shop owner (the melting cap victim) is checking his garage and some other new shimanos to see if he can find a cap to swap that's non plastic. If we come up with something, will be sure to let you know.
I think, if I recall correctly, that the plastic melting cap refers to the first batch of the saragossa's and not to the current SW version. Even for the old version you can get an upgrade with a metal cap from shimano.
I'm not sure as I do not have such an old saragosa but I'm thinking about buying the new SW version in a moderate size (probably 10000 size) for light to medium popping and stickbaiting for everything up to small sized schoolie blufins (maybe up to 50-6- lb)
On the other hand for overhead jigging reels, Jigging master, maxel, alutechnos albacore gorilla's and the smaller accurate seem to be used quite often
In the med, especialy in deep water, the larger blufins are not an easy catch and have wrecked a lot of gear. They are also finicky and leader shy.
I'm a little puzzled that it is mentioned that Yellow fins fight twice as hard as blue fins. From a biological and body type perspective that seems almost impossible. Maybe you've got YFT on steroids over there. :D :D :D ;D ;D
Hoe hard those bluefins realy fight I hope to experience this summer ;D
I wanted to point out that it's the angler as much as the gear. Here is an old post from another site. Check out the monster AJ caught on a Penn 8500 and 25lb Momoi. http://www.pensacolafishingforum.com/f34/pending-igfa-aj-record-rig-report-65770/ Bob
Quote from: marc77 on March 29, 2014, 02:02:28 AM
Mohamed
I fish the northeast canyons. During October and November, medium blue fins migrate through our canyons and we frequently catch them there in large numbers. Due to the regulations, we are allowed to keep one or two per trip and we release the rest that we hook. These fish are between 150 and 300 lbs. I have caught as many as 15 during one trip. Sometimes they are a nuisance, like blue sharks. We are trying to catch yellow fins, albacore and bigeyes and we will hook blue fins. They are more of a problem on full moon nights.
In my opinion, these blue fins are the easiest tuna to catch, especially inshore. They are not as line shy as the other tuna and they will always hit jigs.
You do not need any expensive or fancy gear to catch them. I use a penn senator 114 reel mounted on a Shakespeare 1120 ugly stick rod. The reel costs about $ 100 new. I modified my reels with stainless steel gear sleeves, daiwa 900h handles and one piece topless aluminum frames. I use 80 or 100 momoi high catch smoke blue line with no braid. The reel weighs 40 oz and with the 2 to 1 gear ratio and long 900h handle, I can literally winch these fish in. The rod costs about $ 65 new. I cut off about 10" off the tip and glue on a roller tip. I use an 8 oz db hammered Diamond jig which costs about $ 6. Jigging technique is simple. Just drop the jig down to the level where the fish are holding and yo yo the jig; that is, lift it with a slow to medium lift of the rod and quickly drop the rod tip so that the jig flutters back down. They will usually hit the jig as it flutters back down.
My cousins fish for them in the Mediterranean, in Italy, using the same gear and technique and they also do well.
Good luck.
thank you marc :)
i have many senators nearly all sizes and many other LD reels , but i'm not familiar with this yo yo technique!! you mean that i don't have to reel the jig up !! just moving it with the rod??
if i understand this right , then that will be good i can use one of my senators or makairas for this technique :)
but do you use heavy iron jigs? or the colored Japanese ones i/ve used those colored jigs for jigging but using the Japanese technique on smaller fish?
mohamed hashem
Quote from: Reinaard van der Vossen on April 01, 2014, 10:27:17 AM
I think, if I recall correctly, that the plastic melting cap refers to the first batch of the saragossa's and not to the current SW version. Even for the old version you can get an upgrade with a metal cap from shimano.
I'm not sure as I do not have such an old saragosa but I'm thinking about buying the new SW version in a moderate size (probably 10000 size) for light to medium popping and stickbaiting for everything up to small sized schoolie blufins (maybe up to 50-6- lb)
On the other hand for overhead jigging reels, Jigging master, maxel, alutechnos albacore gorilla's and the smaller accurate seem to be used quite often
In the med, especialy in deep water, the larger blufins are not an easy catch and have wrecked a lot of gear. They are also finicky and leader shy.
I'm a little puzzled that it is mentioned that Yellow fins fight twice as hard as blue fins. From a biological and body type perspective that seems almost impossible. Maybe you've got YFT on steroids over there. :D :D :D ;D ;D
Hoe hard those bluefins realy fight I hope to experience this summer ;D
thank you for help
the most thing i don't like in the saragosa sw is the graphite rotor , the old saragosa had an aluminium rotor on the 18k model , the old 18 k saragosa has 41 inch line retrieve per crank, is this enough for surface popping (stick baits and poppers) what is the perfect speed for that?? i wish to have a reel that can do both vertical jigging and popping if the old 18k saragosa is capable of that i may get it .
Quote from: Cone on April 02, 2014, 12:47:55 PM
I wanted to point out that it's the angler as much as the gear. Here is an old post from another site. Check out the monster AJ caught on a Penn 8500 and 25lb Momoi. http://www.pensacolafishingforum.com/f34/pending-igfa-aj-record-rig-report-65770/ Bob
of course it all depends on the angler but i'm not that professional one :)
mohamed,
i have been doing a lot of research because i'll be on my 1st long range trip next june or on the boat saltwater fishing. i have used google and youtube for this and what i have learned is that the yo yo technique is a slow version of the japanese style of jigging.
in my case i bought a gosa sw20000 for popping(there's a guy at 360tuna who tried it and he prefers a faster ratio. but he added that the gosa is a nice reel) and a few conventional reels for jigging. IMHO it's a matter of preference because if the gosa's ratio(1:4.4) is slow i'll just crank a little faster.
here is a video of yo yo style;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEY7lEt-cLw
and one result of my research, there are anglers who prefer at least 1:>5 ratio for popping. and with this ratio(if you decide to have just one spinning reel for both) you can yo yo or do the japanese(fast really fast) style of jigging and popping with just one reel. hope this helps... :)
I thought that the larger ones hat a metal rotor. At least this guy says (looks like from own hands on experience)
http://www.stripersonline.com/t/914249/2014-saragosa-sw/30
Whether they are fast enough for popping is something to be seen.
If you want a faster spinner in the moderate price range then the Daiwa saltist 6500H might be an option. They are also less heavy compared to the Saragossa where the 20000 SW is in excess of 900 grams. The saltist needs aftermarket carbon fiber drag washers and after market line roller bearings though.
In you area you might also have the opportunity to still find the Tica Talisman TG8000H (hig for high speed) with the stainless steel pinion (pre medio 2013). This one is approx 700 gr but needs carbon drag washer replacement. Saw in in turkey for 160-200€ but didn't buy
Having said that. Probably nothing compares to the supperspinners like Daiwa Saltiga, Shimano Stella and accurates or Penn superspinners when it comes to larger blufins or large GT's.
my sw20000 is waiting for me at my mother's place(USA) and can't confirm the rotor's material. but shimano's US site says graphite rotor...
http://fish.shimano.com/publish/content/global_fish/en/us/index/products/reels/saltwater_spinning/Saragosa_SW.html
mohamed,
i'm not pushing for you to buy the sw gosa but the torque is next on my list of spinners to buy...if i have the dough for a spinner i'll buy the saltiga. keep in mind though 2 torques=1 saltiga.
Quote from: mohamedhashem21 on April 07, 2014, 09:39:17 AM
Quote from: marc77 on March 29, 2014, 02:02:28 AM
Mohamed
I fish the northeast canyons. During October and November, medium blue fins migrate through our canyons and we frequently catch them there in large numbers. Due to the regulations, we are allowed to keep one or two per trip and we release the rest that we hook. These fish are between 150 and 300 lbs. I have caught as many as 15 during one trip. Sometimes they are a nuisance, like blue sharks. We are trying to catch yellow fins, albacore and bigeyes and we will hook blue fins. They are more of a problem on full moon nights.
In my opinion, these blue fins are the easiest tuna to catch, especially inshore. They are not as line shy as the other tuna and they will always hit jigs.
You do not need any expensive or fancy gear to catch them. I use a penn senator 114 reel mounted on a Shakespeare 1120 ugly stick rod. The reel costs about $ 100 new. I modified my reels with stainless steel gear sleeves, daiwa 900h handles and one piece topless aluminum frames. I use 80 or 100 momoi high catch smoke blue line with no braid. The reel weighs 40 oz and with the 2 to 1 gear ratio and long 900h handle, I can literally winch these fish in. The rod costs about $ 65 new. I cut off about 10" off the tip and glue on a roller tip. I use an 8 oz db hammered Diamond jig which costs about $ 6. Jigging technique is simple. Just drop the jig down to the level where the fish are holding and yo yo the jig; that is, lift it with a slow to medium lift of the rod and quickly drop the rod tip so that the jig flutters back down. They will usually hit the jig as it flutters back down.
My cousins fish for them in the Mediterranean, in Italy, using the same gear and technique and they also do well.
Good luck.
thank you marc :)
i have many senators nearly all sizes and many other LD reels , but i'm not familiar with this yo yo technique!! you mean that i don't have to reel the jig up !! just moving it with the rod??
if i understand this right , then that will be good i can use one of my senators or makairas for this technique :)
but do you use heavy iron jigs? or the colored Japanese ones i/ve used those colored jigs for jigging but using the Japanese technique on smaller fish?
mohamed hashem
Mohamed
The yo yo technique is a very old, simple and very effective jigging technique for school to medium blue fins. We have been using this technique for many years, way before jigging for tuna became popular. It is the same technique we use for jigging cod. We use a 7 foot jigging rod which has a parabolic action. The rod has to be fairly light so that we do not get tired of working the jig. It also has to be strong enough to fight the fish without breaking. The parabolic action, i.e. stiff throughout to the tip, allows us to work the jig most effectively so we do not get tired too soon.
We use an 8 oz hammered diamond jig. The jig is chrome plated and is center balanced. We drop the jig down to the level where we are marking the fish. We then lift the jig up with the rod as high as we can and then we quickly drop the rod tip so that the jig free falls back down. In other words, the jig is going up about 7 feet and free falling back down about 7 feet. The tuna will usually strike the jig as it free falls back down. The shining, fluttering action of the jig as it falls back down is what really temps the fish to strike.
We do not reel the jig up to the boat unless we have to reset the jig due to the current. When the current takes the jig too far, we have to reel it up and drop it back down. This technique works best when the jig is being worked in a vertical direction. If the jig is taken at an angle by the current, it will not be very effective. In other words, the jig has to have an up and down movement, not a horizontal movement.
Envision a wounded sardine, struggling to swim.
Sometimes the fish will strike the jig as we lift it up or when we are reeling it up to the boat. However, the vast majority of the strikes come when the jig is fluttering back down. The strike is very subtle and unless you are very attentive you will not realize that a fish has your jig in its mouth. When we detect any slight tap or slightly longer period of slack as the jig is dropping down, we reel very quickly to get a tight line on the fish before it spits the jig out. We do not set the hook with the rod. We just reel, reel, reel.
I tried to explain this as best as I can with words. But, understand that this is something that can only be effectively learned through experience. When we do this tuna jigging, we do not think about what we are doing. We just do it as instinct. Keep in mind that the most important factor is the presentation of the jig to the fish.
Good luck.