Reel Repair by Alan Tani

Conventional and Bait Casting Reel Rebuild Tutorials and Questions => Penn 99/Jigmaster/SurfMaster/Squidder Tutorials and Questions => Topic started by: Lensters on April 02, 2014, 02:49:00 AM

Title: Jigmaster Stainless Steel Main Gear Only
Post by: Lensters on April 02, 2014, 02:49:00 AM
Would people be interested in just a stainless steel main gear for 500s that is meant to work the original (13-500) pinion gear?  If we could reach a minimum quantity the price would be in the $25-$30 range.
Title: Re: Jigmaster Stainless Steel Main Gear Only
Post by: Ron Jones on April 03, 2014, 01:55:19 AM
I missed this the first time. I would be interested in this for certain.
Ron
Title: Re: Jigmaster Stainless Steel Main Gear Only
Post by: Keta on April 03, 2014, 02:00:22 AM
I'd like them in bronze.
Title: Re: Jigmaster Stainless Steel Main Gear Only
Post by: rscotth on April 05, 2014, 01:16:44 AM
I would be in for two......
Title: Re: Jigmaster Stainless Steel Main Gear Only
Post by: Lensters on April 05, 2014, 01:23:47 AM
Quote from: Keta on April 03, 2014, 02:00:22 AM
I'd like them in bronze.

I'm not really following you Lee, are the OEMs bronze?
Title: Re: Jigmaster Stainless Steel Main Gear Only
Post by: Keta on April 05, 2014, 01:24:24 AM
Brass
Title: Re: Jigmaster Stainless Steel Main Gear Only
Post by: Lensters on April 05, 2014, 01:41:23 AM
Quote from: Keta on April 05, 2014, 01:24:24 AM
Brass

I'm not up on metallurgy so I had to lookup the difference.  Tin instead of zinc, makes sense that it would make a better part for a salty reel.  I wonder why anyone uses brass around saltwater given bronze is so much better.  Do you think that bronze is better than stainless for salty reels or just for these main gears?
Title: Re: Jigmaster Stainless Steel Main Gear Only
Post by: Keta on April 05, 2014, 01:47:08 AM
Smoother.  Brass is easier to machine than SS or bronze.
Title: Re: Jigmaster Stainless Steel Main Gear Only
Post by: Ron Jones on April 05, 2014, 02:09:01 AM
Monel would be the best I think,but who can afford that? Silicon bronze is probably the best compromise.
Ronald
Title: Re: Jigmaster Stainless Steel Main Gear Only
Post by: Keta on April 05, 2014, 02:10:59 AM
Quote from: noyb72 on April 05, 2014, 02:09:01 AM
Monel would be the best I think,but who can afford that? Silicon bronze is probably the best compromise.
Ronald

Monel or inconel would be perfect!!!
Title: Re: Jigmaster Stainless Steel Main Gear Only
Post by: Lensters on April 05, 2014, 02:49:16 AM
This is a comment I made about being an engineer brought into sales meetings to validate sale's and marketing's claims...

I remember so many of these meetings. Sales and marketing have such a hard time grasping reality.

Change the value of gravity? No problem, we'll just build it on the moon. All you (marketing or sales) has to do it get finance to approve the required expenditures.

Yep, anything is possible, any timeline is reasonable, it just that the bean counters tend not to approve of spending billions to make millions.


Bronze seems realistic in intent and function but I'm afraid we have a marketing problem (ackkk... I can't believe I wrote that).  Most sales would require spelling out the difference between bronze and brass to convince the purchaser the product is worthy of the price.  However, most buyers would have missed the opportunity altogether as they are sold on stainless without a solid reason.  I know I was before I did some research.  Therefore I think that we are stuck going with stainless unless someone starts a "bronze crusade".

Monel or Iconel gears inside titanium side plates would make a great reel but the market for six figure reels is probably too small to consider.
Title: Re: Jigmaster Stainless Steel Main Gear Only
Post by: Three se7ens on April 05, 2014, 03:06:38 AM
Quote from: Lensters on April 05, 2014, 02:49:16 AM

Monel or Iconel gears inside titanium side plates would make a great reel but the market for six figure reels is probably too small to consider.


Inconel and Monel are just high temp alloys, designed to maintain their strength and corrosion resistance at absurdly high temperatures. Titanium isn't a good candidate for gears either. 

For high strength and good corrosion resistance, 17-4 PH stainless is a good choice, and many manufacturers use that in high end reels.  The material price is t too far from titanium, but it machines far better, is stronger, and more than corrosion resistant enough for life inside a saltwater reel. 

Marine bronze or aluminum bronze is very well suited to gears, especially in a corrosive environment because of its combination of good strength, good wear properties, smoothness, and great corrosion resistance.  Another very common choice for gears.   There is a reason why engineers for big manufacturers continue to spec out these 2 materials for gears in high end reels.

316 SS is weak compared to those, especially the 17-4, which can have 5 times the yield strength of 316. The only thing 316 really has going for it is that it specifically resists salt water corrosion. 

Title: Re: Jigmaster Stainless Steel Main Gear Only
Post by: Keta on April 05, 2014, 03:42:58 AM
Inconel 360 makes good trim screw jacks and gears and is close to impervious to corrosion.
Title: Re: Jigmaster Stainless Steel Main Gear Only
Post by: Shark Hunter on April 05, 2014, 04:06:21 AM
Since we have our top part making reel heads here on the same post. Let me Blurt out something totally out of context. Forgive me of any Ignorance. ;)
I know pretty much nothing about the Metals that you Gentlemen speak of other than the stainless.
We have pretty much come up with so many Hot Rod parts, Thanks to you guys ;D and Alan of Course that the possibilities seem endless. Its all about the Money.
Alan T has provided us with some top notch ss gear Sleeves for just about every reel that needs them up to the 9/0. Are his sleeves made of 316? I know Alan Chui has provided us with some legendary gear sets made of 316. Sal seems to have pushed the 316 pinion to its limits on the 9/0 with the Hex Gears. Now Alan C is having replacements made of 416.
Lee has made us countless high tech parts, from Handles to Inserts.
My point of focus here is on the Larger Penn gear sleeves. Mainly the 12, 14 and 16/0 in stainless. Why has no one tried this, but Electramate, that charges $100 a sleeve.
Forgive me if I'm being out of line, I just want your guys take on this.
Title: Re: Jigmaster Stainless Steel Main Gear Only
Post by: Keta on April 05, 2014, 04:21:04 AM
The problem is large minimum order.
Title: Re: Jigmaster Stainless Steel Main Gear Only
Post by: Three se7ens on April 05, 2014, 04:26:30 AM
agreed.  Its not cheap to make a lot of them, but it gets downright expensive to just make a few.  This is especially true when you consider the number of separate operations involved in making a gear sleeve.

if you really want to mess your pants, get a local machine shop to price making you one...
Title: Re: Jigmaster Stainless Steel Main Gear Only
Post by: Keta on April 05, 2014, 04:32:55 AM
My machinist works for beer, he said bring a keg for a narrow spool for a large Senator.
Title: Re: Jigmaster Stainless Steel Main Gear Only
Post by: Shark Hunter on April 05, 2014, 04:41:47 AM
I know Alan said it takes $1500 to $2000 to get an order rolling for the ss sleeves. His other ss Sleeves are perfect! He charges $20 for a smaller gear sleeve, like for a Surfmaster or Jigmaster. $33 for the 9/0,114H version.
I know the Boss has connections and I know if he would make sure they were perfect! I just wanted to know what you guys thought about it. I'll Shut up now so I don't mess my pants! :D
Title: Re: Jigmaster Stainless Steel Main Gear Only
Post by: Three se7ens on April 05, 2014, 04:49:23 AM
Quote from: Keta on April 05, 2014, 04:32:55 AM
My machinist works for beer, he said bring a keg for a narrow spool for a large Senator.

whats the best way to fly a keg across the country?
Title: Re: Jigmaster Stainless Steel Main Gear Only
Post by: Shark Hunter on April 07, 2014, 05:08:58 AM
Adam,
Belay my Last on the ss sleeves. I was paid a visit by the SS Sleeve Fairy Saturday Morning. Bam!!
12 and 14/0 Sleeves. Good Things come to those who Wait!
(http://i1300.photobucket.com/albums/ag93/darondyer/IMG_23591_zpsb7abdeb2.jpg)
Title: Re: Jigmaster Stainless Steel Main Gear Only
Post by: Bryan Young on April 07, 2014, 05:24:13 AM
Wow!!!
Title: Re: Jigmaster Stainless Steel Main Gear Only
Post by: Tightlines667 on April 07, 2014, 05:27:49 AM
That 14/0 sleeve is looking reel good!

Add sum SS double dogs, one of the custom cut SS stars, and find the old style Hardened steel main and pinion w/chromed bronze bridge, SS posts, torx screws, add an Alan T handle and Keta crank, and your on the way to a 'super tank'.
Title: Re: Jigmaster Stainless Steel Main Gear Only
Post by: Shark Hunter on April 07, 2014, 08:12:11 AM
I Have the Super Tank John! SS Sleeve with 10 tooth Ratchet, Double SS Dogs and the Steel main and pinion with Chromed Bridge! The Handle is only a Detail. I got it Covered Bruh! ;D
Title: Re: Jigmaster Stainless Steel Main Gear Only
Post by: Tightlines667 on April 07, 2014, 04:49:00 PM
Nice!
Title: Re: Jigmaster Stainless Steel Main Gear Only
Post by: Dr. Jekyll - AKA MeL B on April 07, 2014, 05:10:09 PM
Quote from: Three se7ens on April 05, 2014, 04:49:23 AM
whats the best way to fly a keg across the country?

good one! LOL...by land is cheaper. ;D yes inconel is mainly used for high temperature application e.g. turbo manifolds for racing...

don't forget to add SS side plates on those 14/0... ;) :)