I just picked up a new old stock U.S.A. 114H that was in the bottom of the showcase of a local tackle shop.
I noticed the Left side bearing cap was screwed in almost all the way, and there was a little more side to side spool play than I'm used to seeing on these reels.
The right side bearing cap has a little side to side movement as well.
Can someone explain what might cause this ? I haven't seen this before.
-The reel is New in the Box, never used.
It sounds like the bearing needs to be shimmer. The shaft is not long enough to keep the right bearing cap in place.
Is there a procedure or post here that can show me how to do it?
Thanks
Bill
Basically find small SS washers to put in the cups under the bearings. May take a little trial and error. You want to center the spool so that may help in determining thickness and placement.
I'm not sure if there is a post. Maybe one of the other guys can post up a link.
Here is how I like to do it
(http://i766.photobucket.com/albums/xx305/pescatore3/upgrades%20for%20others/001_zps1c061c69.jpg) (http://s766.photobucket.com/user/pescatore3/media/upgrades%20for%20others/001_zps1c061c69.jpg.html)
(http://i766.photobucket.com/albums/xx305/pescatore3/upgrades%20for%20others/003_zps8f2fe1ec.jpg) (http://s766.photobucket.com/user/pescatore3/media/upgrades%20for%20others/003_zps8f2fe1ec.jpg.html)
(http://i766.photobucket.com/albums/xx305/pescatore3/upgrades%20for%20others/006_zps92446c08.jpg) (http://s766.photobucket.com/user/pescatore3/media/upgrades%20for%20others/006_zps92446c08.jpg.html)
Shims that size are not easy to find, but with a little patience you could make your own. I use stainless shimming material, I believe this sheet was .15mm. One usually does it, but its not a problem if you need to add two or three, you could use brass or aluminum also.
As TT mentioned above, make sure the spool is centered when you're done.
So you place the shim on the Right side of the spool shaft - then assemble the side plate as normal ?
-Just want to be sure that I don't have to pull the side plate down and place the shim inside the bearing cap - then put the bearing on top - then assemble ? Or is this an acceptable method as well ?
Do you have a OD/ID measurement for the shim used for the 114H ? I have a decent hardware store nearby, they may have something that may work.
Thanks
Bill
Ok I just opened up the reel.
I found a couple of ss washers at home that were .60mm thick. I used a round file to enlarge the inside diameter so it would slide over the spool shaft (only used 1). I didn't make the washers any smaller than what you see in the pic - just enlarged the ID so the spool shaft would slide through it.
I removed the pinion gear and placed the washer on top of the bearing - that lay in the right side bearing cap.
- Put it all back together and Presto! Normal side to side adjustment by using the left side screw-in bearing.
The spool is very close to being dead centered - certainly no worse than it was originally was, and definitely better.
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db30b3127ccef64370db7a5a00000030O00AbMmzFizcN2IPbz4M/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00107831162620140511215212687.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
-----------------------------
While I was in there I changed out the fiber washer for a carbon fiber 006-115 and Cal's greased all the drag washers.
I plan to use this reel for deep drop with a Fish Winch motor - so I want it to be in good shape before I start using it.
Its got 1000 yds of 65 on it. Ready for the Black Gills.
Thanks for all your Help and advice.
Billy
If you're using a winch I would recommend a stainless steel gear sleeve. Alan should have them in stock.
that's alan chui!
+1 for getting the stainless steel sleeve.
The stainless drive shaft of the Fishwinch will chew the original brass sleeve in fairly quick time.
Have been through this myself. IMO there needs to be one mounting point added to the adapter frame to stop the flexing while under load. It's this flexing that strips the internal thread of the brass sleeve.
I'm not sure you can see it or not in this pic - but the motor threads inside the gear sleeve, and the 2 pieces mate together cleanly.
There is no pressure applied to the flats on the outside of the gear sleeve, as a normal handle would exert.
-- I agree an additional mounting point would be Better, and would eliminate flex. I'll take your advice and install the ss sleeve. This motor has good torque.
Here is the unit separated from the motor. Notice the threaded ss shaft.
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db30b3127ccef643c8457a9800000030O00AbMmzFizcN2IPbz4M/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00107831162620140511223619960.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
Here is the unit assembled to the reel.
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db30b3127ccef643074dbb5f00000030O00AbMmzFizcN2IPbz4M/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00107831162620140511223620000.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
I also bought a USA 114HLW I may tweak a bit. It will be used for larger species (than rockfish) so I may use the ss gear sleeve on that one.
Since the last post I installed the SS Gear sleeve and SS Dog. While I had the reel apart I took another look at the right side bearing issue I was having.
I was surprised to find I was able to easily remove the bearing from the cup. I had thought all along it was pressed in too deep and this was causing my excessive spool play.
I install an SS washer in the Cup, and then pressed the bearing in on top of it. Reassembled the reel and everything lined up good. I feel much better knowing the spool shaft is inserted the maximum distance inside the bearing inner race.
-Time for some deep drops to test it all out.
Quote from: Billy V on May 21, 2014, 09:37:22 PM
I was surprised to find I was able to easily remove the bearing from the cup. I had thought all along it was pressed in too deep and this was causing my excessive spool play.
I think I just figured out the problem. There should have been a gnarled washer that locks the bearing in place. The bearing goes in until it hits bottom than the gnarled locking washer goes over it to hold the bearing in place. Dominick
Quote from: Dominick on May 23, 2014, 03:59:56 AM
Quote from: Billy V on May 21, 2014, 09:37:22 PM
I was surprised to find I was able to easily remove the bearing from the cup. I had thought all along it was pressed in too deep and this was causing my excessive spool play.
I think I just figured out the problem. There should have been a gnarled washer that locks the bearing in place. The bearing goes in until it hits bottom than the gnarled locking washer goes over it to hold the bearing in place. Dominick
Good investigation Dominick, I didn't know he didn't have the retaining washer on the bearing, you figured it out. On the 113 and 114 the retaining washer is also a spacer, that's why I like to make my shims as shown above. Good job pal ;)
Quote from: alantani on May 11, 2014, 10:25:38 PM
that's alan chui!
Doc,
I don't have any SS sleeve. I carry SS 3.25:1 gear set only.
Thanks,
--Alan C.
Have you fished with the Fish Winch yet? I have one and used it on one trip. Way too slow for me but they are powerful..!
Im going to bump this as I am having a similar issue with a 114 HLW, I'll be hunting for some shims, but first I'll check for the gnarled washer over the bearing...To Be Continued...
Edit: I just looked through the schematic of the 114H, 114HL and the 114HLW and they only show the bearing and the o-ring on the left side plate (sold as one piece). Maybe the washer is a part in the construction of that assembly? I'll take the reel down tonight...
Found your gnarled washer! Yep, part of the assembly of the bearing.
Concerning the spool play, I think I've fixed it (thanks to this thread)! I'll do a post tomorrow with links to the posts I used for reference. Feeling quite accomplished, haha!😎 And without AT.com I'm not sure what I would have done.
It's amazing what we assume.....every 113 and 114 special I have taken apart had that knurled spacer retaining the bearing, but then again I've only done a 1/2 dozen and all were new or never opened.....thanks for the detective work brothers.... Bill
We've found with the 114H non-handle side bearing, just tightened by hand it doesn't make enough contact properly with the spool
A towel and pliers will let you tighten it enough that most of the play should be gone.
I have run across older bearing cups that are quite rounded on the top and others that are very flat. The older, rounded ones are a little deeper and use a knurled spacer/keeper on both sides of the bearing in the cup. There's no telling if this was Penn or an owner fix but I have seen it twice out of roughly 20 that I have been inside of.
As previously stated, there are all sorts of deviant abnormalities in the manufacturing and out sourcing over the years. I have seen un- shielded bearings in a 114H that had a washer looking piece of oiled felt and then the knurled keeper. The only other reel I have seen that on is a 1945-ish, black plate Squidder. Betcha A.T. has seen all this and many, many more oddities. I wouldn't mind hearing about some of the strangeness others have run across.
H~
Quote from: mizmo67 on January 26, 2017, 07:01:45 PM
We've found with the 114H non-handle side bearing, just tightened by hand it doesn't make enough contact properly with the spool
A towel and pliers will let you tighten it enough that most of the play should be gone.
Don't let Sal hear you say this... ;) :D ;D Dominick
Different situation Dominick, the spool should have a little sideway movement, but you've proved it to be not necessary ;) ;D.
I agree with Mo! all the 114h's that have come through my hands, having the O-ring on the bearing cup, needed to be tighten with force.
No need for spacers on those, just get a good grip on the leftside bearing and tighten all the way.
I use wood clamp from work and do a good job.
A towel with pliers, as Mo has suggested will work, just make sure you get a good grip and thry not to make it slip.
Sal