??? I wiped all of the grease off the surface of the drag washer when following the rebuild instructions re: the SX. Obviously the friction is way off, I only get 5lbs of drag before loss of free spool. How can I get more of the grease off to try and get my friction back? As indicated in the title, this is a brand new MXJ. FWIW, I've done the same to an HX and same problem, hope I didn't screw 'em up. Any help would be greatly appreciated - Ernie
just added a pic of the washer wiped off, how can I get it cleaner?? And to add to it, now there's resistance while winding... Great, so now I need a right side bearing >:(
(http://i539.photobucket.com/albums/ff360/erniekru/IMG_20140619_145747_zpsbf6f74d8.jpg)
I've been looking everywhere, and nothing seems to be wrong except drag force. I've double checked spring gauge, Belleville's are ()(), freespool spins fine, right side bearing OK, no rough bearings at 5lbs drag (maximum). At any settings higher than 5lbs drag, I lose freespool. Totally stumped and frustrated. I guess I can start experimenting with going (())| for the bellville stack, but I shouldn't need to go there for a measly 5lbs (that's being generous, it's more like 4.5lbs). I don't get it....
I have greased the drags on all my Avets and any other non greased drag with no loss of drag.
There must be something else out of whack. Double check the assembly of the clutch lever and it's parts. The freespool lever.
Sometimes this type of issue in lever drag reels can be attributed to reduced space overall from stock specs. You may need to ensure the bearings are all properly seated, the lever drag mech is assembled properly, the drag mech is properly assembled, and the cam assembly is ok. Slightly thinner Bellevilles, or shimming may be required. The narrow freespool range is indicative of too little space somewhere from the cam all the way through to the left plate bearing. troubleshoot by examining all of the sub assemblies to make sure they are functioning properly, modifying Belleville config for less space may be an easy way to troubleshoot for you.
Not sure if that helps?
It is not the grease, not just saying that for the sake of being a greased drag advocate, done the same to my mxj and have normal drag function.
I cannot help too much without having the reel in front of me, but I would say check the cam and make sure it is seated properly. Good luck if you are still having an issue.
The stock config. of the belleville washers should be (()) and not ()(). Give that a shot and see how that works.
EDIT: Same for the HX, when you get to a JX's and LX's single or two speed the belleville's are ))(())
Boy those Avet's sure are finicky. ::)
Thanks everyone for the input, I've taken the MXJ apart and back together so many times, checking and double checking, I feel like it goes together well. What types of things should I check for with the cam? To get from loose on drag nut to losing freespool is probably 13-15 clicks, so it's not running low on clearance. I didn't remove the bellevilles from the spool axle, but I'll check to see what a different configuration does. I'll report back in the morning. Thanks again - Ernie
I've just disassembled and reassembled the reel, its done right. Spool axle, pin, BV's, bearing spacer, axle spacer, bearing, washer, spring, washer, bearing, drag plate, ratchet, and finally pinion gear (from clicker to handle). It takes approximately 6 turns on the drag screw to go from just threading to loss of freespool, so plenty of space for the springs to compress. The belleville washer stack in the stock config ()() is .1145" thick, according to multiple posts on this site this is correct, not the schematic indicated (()). If I go to the (()) the stack is only .0975" thick, so I would need a .017" thick washer to keep it the same thickness.
After all this, drag is still stuck down at 4.5lbs, what gives? ??? ???
I never verified that when I bought the reel that it could actually make 9lbs at strike, I wonder if there is something else wrong...
It's quite possible that the pressure plate is not properly seated on the pinion gear.
During reassembly, I install the pinion gear then the pressure plate on the pinion gear, then install the spool assembly. I have found that when the pressure plate is not properly seated in the pinion gear.
Another culprit could be that the pinion gear is installed in reverse.
Hope this helps.
Here is a pic of the gear as it came apart.. Seems right to me ???
Thanks for helping out, I really hope to get to the bottom of this.
(http://i539.photobucket.com/albums/ff360/erniekru/IMG_20140620_104719_zps94cd3a91.jpg)
What grease did you use on the drag washer?
Hi Ernie,
Have you tried installing the pressure plate on the pinion gear before installing the spool?
Last thing that I can think of is, and I don't want to sound like I'm insulting you, but are you dropping the drag lever into free spool? A friend of mine had issues with the lever and cam mechanism that was a bit tough and it was extremely difficult to get the lever into and out of free spool.
Bryan
Alright, to answer some questions
1) I used Shimano Star Drag Grease
2) yep, Bryan I assembled the drag plate onto the right side first and then slid the spool axle through. I know exactly what you're talking about regarding getting the pinion not seated correctly.
3) yep, lever drag in free spool when assembling.
I made a change to the belleville washer stack like posted above. I was initially hesitant, as Alan had indicated that it wasn't necessary and there are other complications with changing the stack. Anyway, I tried them in parallel (()) instead of the stock series ()(). With the higher spring rate of the stack, I noticed the increase in drag setting immediately. The lever is not very linear in its drag (jumps from 0 drag in Live to pretty high right away), but I can now easily reach 9lbs with plenty of free spool. I do notice the difference in stack thickness as it takes more turns on the drag knob to close the gap. The handle is harder to turn, but honestly, I don't have any experience with AVET's so this might be completely off base. I hope it is not a bearing problem in the making. I won't be fishing more than 30lb, so 9lbs is my max, probably leaning towards 8lbs.
I wonder why the spring rate on the series stack ()() is so low? Especially since the reel is new never used.. Oh well, major step forward as far as I'm concerned.
Thank you all for the help, I really appreciate it. More than a couple time I was considering taking them back and sticking with my trusty Bryan 5 washer drag system for all my Newell's. Talk about a great upgrade...
I'm glad you got it sorted out. If you want a more linear drag curve while maintaining the desired max before losing freespool there may be another option as well. Although I havn't worked on many Avets, I think you can modify the cam itself (as detailed in some of Alan's other tutorials, or a different, less 'aggressive' replacement cam may be available from Avet. Another option to consider might be checking with Avet to see if they have alternative thinner Belleville washers available (maybe from a different reel model?) that would work so you can go with the more linear ()() arrangement and still maintain the desired spacing. Just a few thoughts.
Ernie,
Since your reel is new and Avet is close by, I would pay them a visit.
Bryan
To me it sounds like the reel is operating the way Avets do now that you put the belleville washers back in the correct stock configuration (and yes (()) is stock). Now set your drag at 8-9 lbs at strike, once you do you should get a lb or two of drag at the bait setting. The pinion bearing should be fine as long as you didn't push it way past 9 lbs at strike while testing.
Try the (()) config. in the HX and see how that works.
EDIT: If your thinking about getting the Kodiak/South Florida cam from Avet check out what I found about it in my JX 6/3 here.
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=7246.0
looking at the pic, just like what Bryan Young mentioned, it looks like the pinion gear is installed incorrectly. I'll open my MXJ, after eating lunch, and verify my hunch. Also my belleville washers are configured ()() and getting the drag specs without problems.
looked at the pic again and you have the MXJ 2SP, I have the single speed. Anyway this is how I assemble it, pinion gear properly seated with part of the pinion's teeth inside the pressure plate;
(http://i1050.photobucket.com/albums/s410/flipmlb/c9919615-c73b-4878-adca-f3202ea84f78_zpsce512ad7.jpg) (http://s1050.photobucket.com/user/flipmlb/media/c9919615-c73b-4878-adca-f3202ea84f78_zpsce512ad7.jpg.html)
And then insert the whole assembly to the right side plate.
It shouldn't matter which way you skin the cat. If it's in, it's in. I do it either way (pressure plate on the sideplate or vice-versa), just depends on my mood.
You could always add another belleville washer to make it go ()()( or add a shim ()|() and play with the thickness.
Every reel design has it's idiosyncracies. I've come to hate all reels equally. Modifying drag cams can be a lottery if you don't have the proper equipment i.e. reproducible results. Also, many times during a fight I have backed the drag lever off halfway to almost off to alleviate pressure on the cam itself and thumb the spool as I adjust the drag knob. Also, using the lever to back off on runs is not hard to do on Avets. I don't think I've committed to one model or reel type. My quiver is a hodge podge of various manufacturers and models. It keeps me on my toes and I don't like to blame my equipment for not being able to manipulate my gear correctly while battling a fish.