Got a reel from a buddy and his complaint was that it had little to no drag at all. :-\ So with that said I jumped in and begin diagnosis. Pulled the handle, washer and star and found that someone tried to upgrade the drag to a 7/7 washer setup. Well they only installed a 5/5 washer system and used an old asbestos washer to make up the height. So I got the washers to complete the conversion and I installed them.After the last washer everything looked good and I put on my tension washer then the spacer and hardly had enough room to screw on the star.So I screwed the star on and install handle and then I backed the star off and it bottomed out on the handle.Just for gits and shiggles I tried to pull line off the spool..had a lot of resistance. .whayst gives. HELP >:(
A stock 7 stack of HT-100's should bring 30lbs of drag force on a 12/0. You can't just put a thick washer on top and expect it to work as it should. Here is a shot of a 7 stack just as it goes in the gear from bottom to top. The thick washer that was in there was just spinning, not letting the drags work.
(http://i1300.photobucket.com/albums/ag93/darondyer/IMG_24341_zpsdbd2c6cc.jpg)
Sometimes the spacer is not needed, depends on the main gear. This particular reel just used the thick Belleville on top of the stack. I have found that some reels have a different thickness of spacer. Try just another flat washer on top of the stack before the tension washer instead of the spacer. You might be good with no spacer or flat washer at all. Like the reel I have shown. Just make sure you have full drag at lockdown without bottoming out. Anything else, Just ask Pal. ;)
Your metal washers are probably too think for the 7 stack conversion. Did you buy a 7 stack Penn kit or just replaced the washers with HT-100s and used the older metal washers?
Anyway, it shouldn't make too much difference because when fishing with a 12/0 reel, you really should be concerned about how much drag you can get, not free spool with the drag on. ;D
Stock washers are fine for the 7 stack in a stock 12/0. There is plenty of room in there when you take out the old asbestos drag stack.
I think what Reel Guy is asking Bry, it that with the star backed all the way off, He is still pulling drag.
I understand what the Reel Guy is asking.
I noticed that the metal drag washers that came with the old asbestos washers were thicker than the ones that come with Penn's 7 stack kit. This could be why his height of the drag stack may be higher causing drag with the star backed all the way.
But, if the drag setting with the start backed all the way off is less than what you set the drag at, I would not worry about it too much as long as I can confirm that all of the drag washers (metal and CF) are actually sitting in the gear.
I reuse all the old metal drag washers in the bigger Senators.10/0 and up. They are close enough to the new ones not to create a space issue like on the 9/0 and under. I also cut my drag washers using .120 sheet, instead of the stock .133 thickness of the HT-100's. Maybe that's why I'm not having the same problem.
Bryan, you dont want to happen to knock out a few sets of 9+1 drag washers for the 10/0/12/0 do you? I know i might enjoy the added drag offered, even though it may not be necessary. But the way i see it, the shorter time a fish fights the better chance of a healthy release...
I may be able to do that with using stock washers. I will need another reel in for service to experiment.
Sharky may be able to do it. I know he has the metal washers...and I'm sure he has 0.75 mm carbon fiber material to cut. It may be a combination of 0.75 mm and 1 mm thick carbon fiber washers to make up a 9 stack.
Personally, I would stick with the seven stack. I think it is smoother than a 9 or 10, especially from the start. I am expecting my new punch kit tomorrow. If you are interested crackerman, I can make you a few 7 stack sets with the .120 carbon fiber sheet.
I prefer to use an older, thicker metal keyed washer on top of the 7 stack (14 existing washers) to make up the space when upgrading to the new 7 Cf and 7 metal washer set. I think the older hardened steel main gears are just slightly deeper then the old marinized bronze gears if I'm not mistaken as well. I shy away from using gear sleeves since I've noticed heavily used 9-14/0 reels w/the gear sleeves often show warped metal top washers. I don't see this where they are absent.
Older thick metal washers are not flat, you'll be better off with the stainless steel kit from Scott. Use as many as you need to on top, the last keyed washer over the CF washer will give drag, anything above that it's just a spacer.
On the 9/0, if you replace the washer for under the gear with a Delrin washer and also replace the pressure plate washer ( 136-115) with a Top-Hat from the 114H, you'll have a much better reel.
Shark hunter, i appreciate the offer, but i am pretty sure my reel is new enough to have the 7+1 ht100 drag stack already.
I just dont have the materials or time (and spare parts) to try and sort out a 9+1.
I would gladly buy parts needed to do it if someone offered them or told me where to get em.
I believe a well lubed carbon drag stack will be very smooth, whether 7 or 9 discs are used. Just one will have a higher drag applied per crank of the star.
Now if i had 5 or 6 reels to care after it may be a different story, but this one was a budget purchase, that will be worked up into the "biggun" of my arsenal. I already have an upgraded daiwa 900 using alans parts,(not big by many standards, but powerful enough for 95% of the sharks in texas) and it is as smooth as silk and pulls like a mule. I broke my brother in laws harness on it cranking in seaweed.
And if 2 kits get worked up, i would buy the second one for my brother in law.
The reason I usually prefer an older metal washer on top, is simply because I have them available (the kit only comes w/7), and because a single thicker washer often gives me better spacing then 2 thinner new washers which need to be obtained seperately. However, the important thing is that they are flat, and the spacing is correct to give you the full desired drag range. Some guys like to have a light drag setting for fishing large live baits on the drift, where a clicker in free spool is not enough to keep a bait at a given distance/depth. Testing your drag is always a good idea too, so you know where you are at a given star location. Marking a star point w/a piece of rubber tubing or nail polish helps here too.
Crackerman,
I tried a 11 stack setup in my 10/0 that Sal gave me. It is not as smooth as the seven stack with the thicker drag washers. Once the drag starts pulling, its fine, but it takes some pull to get it going. Sal did a similar test in a 9/0. More is not necessarily better in this application. Plus, I prefer the thicker drag washers in case it is a long fight. 30 lbs of drag is plenty.
Well, i just took mine apart. It has 8 thinner drag washers and 7 steel ones. I dont know where it came from the drags are a smidge thinner than the steels. I dont have a mic or calipers to check, they are at work. It also has a very thin reddish fiber washer under the. Main gear.
It was stacked like this in the gear from the bottom up, d is drag, e is eared, k is keyed shaft
Main gear/dkdedkdedkdedkd. With the thick belleville was on top of it with no flat or eared washer on top to sandwich it. Nothing was greased. If i can make a one off thinner eared washer to put in the middle of the stack and put a thicker one in top it will work out to an 8+1 stack and looks to have enough clearance overall. Will that work effectively? Even if it is equal to the 7+1 stack. Otherwise i sill just buy 7 ht100 stockers to stick back in.
Thanks for all the help guys.
I didnt mean to highjack this thread. And i apologize to the op.
You have an extra drag washer on top. I wouldn't mess up the order they are in. You can either remove the extra drag washer, or put another eared on top of it to make an 8 stack. The top of the stack should end up with an eared washer and not a drag washer. The red washer under the main is normal. I am replacing all mine with Delrin. Its much smoother. You definitely need to grease those drags up with some Cal's before buttoning it back up.
Remove that last drag washer and you should be good.
Yeah, i have some cal's to lube it all with.
Thanks for all your help guys. I have a couple parts to order to get er back in shape.
I appreciate the help.
I just got my order from scotts. I ordered 5 complete sets of 12/0 metal washers. A couple tubs of Penn Blue and some more .120 cf from Erik. Since I'm punching my drags now, and wanted to check the new washer thickness to the old. They both measured .160 even measuring across the entire washer, there was only .004 difference.
Thanks for the info on the spacer causing the top washers to warp John. I will not use that spacer any more unless I have to. From my calculations. I come up with 1.96 total stack height with the .120 cf verses 2.05 with the stock HT-100's. That works for me, and is way more economical.