Hi Folks,
I have finally finished my line spooler "The Drag Queen" :D:
(http://alantani.com/gallery/23/9780_13_01_18_6_34_41_230661894.jpeg)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/23/9780_13_01_18_6_34_43_230661245.jpeg)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/23/9780_13_01_18_6_34_46_23068313.jpeg)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/23/9780_13_01_18_6_34_47_23069610.jpeg)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/23/9780_13_01_18_6_34_48_23070155.jpeg)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/23/9780_13_01_18_6_35_36_230711176.jpeg)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/23/9780_13_01_18_6_35_39_230731403.jpeg)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/23/9780_13_01_18_6_35_46_23075277.jpeg)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/23/9780_13_01_18_6_35_46_230742070.jpeg)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/23/9780_13_01_18_6_35_48_23076907.jpeg)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/23/9780_13_01_18_6_35_49_230782233.jpeg)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/23/9780_13_01_18_6_35_48_23077252.jpeg)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/23/9780_13_01_18_6_35_51_23080476.jpeg)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/23/9780_13_01_18_6_35_52_230812448.jpeg)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/23/9780_13_01_18_6_35_49_230791090.jpeg)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/23/9780_13_01_18_6_35_57_230862452.jpeg)
I had some interesting results comparing Kevlar and carbontex (both dry). They both produced similar drag characteristcs but for a given drag the Kevlar produced less heat ???
Both materials were setup to provide 10lbs of drag (determined by a spring balance). I then ran down a freshly charged battery on my portable drill - Kevlar 9 degrees C cooler ??? (measured at the same point adjacent to the drag disc).
Measuring the drag (with both materials) before and after showed similar fade characteristics, Kevlar 2% Carbontex 3.5% nothing in it! Comfortable (for the drive chain and reel mount) max drag 20lbs. I re-spooled with braid several times to check if the extra drag would allow for more line (ie tighter packing) but found that anything above 10lbs was a waste of time - I'm guessing that the minimal stretch of braid is removed by 10lbs, so 20lbs makes no difference. I am definitely open to suggestions on that one :D
One weired thing that did show up - I slapped a cf washer between the Kevlar and disc plate - it worked fine. But when I removed the CF the kevlar (on its own) had drastically reduced drag for a given pressure ??? ??? I tried cleaning the kevlar with IPA but no go, I had to replace it :( I haven't got a clue what was happening there.
I tried several method of gearing down the motor to achive more torque. I finally settled on toothed timing belts and pulleys to give a ratio of 12.5:1. The final drive speed to the reel is 3 revs a second (180 rpm). Re-spooling my Okuma Andros (with the original braid), on this jig, has left a a gap of 3/16 to the edge of the spool (1/8 more than the previous spooling attempt :o). I'm gonna have to get some more braid now and re-spool the rest of my collection :D
a reel work of art, fantastic job, thanks for sharing
NICE!!!!
Brilliant.
Wow....WOW!!! That is what I had in mind, but way better. WOW. Thank you for sharing.
Beautiful engineering -- great work!
well done!
Quote from: foakes on August 20, 2014, 06:22:22 PM
Beautiful engineering -- great work!
x2...very nice.
Excellent Job Tb! ;)
Quote from: foakes on August 20, 2014, 06:22:22 PM
Beautiful engineering -- great work!
Well said. That is some very talented work Chris. I could not do a job like that. I am very impressed. Dominick
Very Nice! It looks like you've been thinking.
Bob
Wow! Quite impressive! I like the use of the belt-driven ebike motor for power, the spool attachment method, and the design of your drag system. Any chance we could see any preassembly pics of the drag system? I foot pedal on/off and/or speed control switch might be handy, since it is often useful to have both hands available while spooling/stripping line. You could go into business selling this beast.
great stuff
slow revs/10lb drag,perfect
Thorough and well thought out... nice job!
Love the line winder ;)
Thanks for sharing,
Dom
Amazing! :o
Sweet....
Rgds
Mark
Thank you for the kind words guys, it means a lot :)
I've attached a 'schematic' of the drag assembly - No CAD software so I used Microsft Paint - it's a bit crude hope it's o.k.
(http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b521/Tiddlerbasher/Line%20spooler/DragAssemblycropped_zps95ac148d.jpg) (http://s1290.photobucket.com/user/Tiddlerbasher/media/Line%20spooler/DragAssemblycropped_zps95ac148d.jpg.html)
I tried a foot control for the motor speed but decided against it. The speed control on the base board was more than adequate. Left hand for manual level wind - right hand for speed control. Once the speed is set (usually max :D) it doesn't need changing 'til the reel is almost full. The control goes from 0 to 180 rpm in one turn. Spinning reels can be accomodated by mounting them on the top of the reel mount and flicking the direction switch on the PWM electronics. Or remove the spool from the reel and use one of the adapters to mount it in a drill.
Thanks for sharing you line spooling masterpiece....its very well thought out. and executed. I,m sure you wanted it badly to spend this much time and effort in finishing it ........very good job indeed.......a ten star rating!
I hope to something someday, but like others havent yet!!!!!!
Very well designed and worked out. I have an old Edistal hobby lathe that I was thinking about converting into a rod wrapping device,now you got me thinking on line spooler. ??? ::) decisions,decisions. ;D
You have fine Fabricaton skills
I am confident that is a better unit than could be purchased
Thanks for sharing
Thank you for the kind words guys :)
I was looking at a commercial unit that is over $1,000 that had far less capability, great job!
Roughly what's the dimension of the base? I'm pretty limited with resources here, planning to buy a ikea cutting board(11" x 18") for the base.
I'll be using a cheap 180W sewing machine motor from ebay.
Hi Nuvole,
The baseboard is a kitchen cupboard door 28" x 20", left over from a makeover.
The sewing machine motor can't produce the power and torque required for this job (been there tried that ::)). This is why I went for the 36v DC E-bike motor - they are cheap, controllable, and easily available (e.g. Ebay $17). Being DC means it can be reversed (when spooling spinners). PWM motor control provides good torque even at low speeds. It will still need to be geared down. I used twin small timing pulleys to give a ratio providing 180 rpm (plenty quick enough). The reel mount,for spooling braid, has to be very strong. There is a surprising amount of pressure applied to it. My original attempt used 8mm bolts - they bent easily :o. I upgraded them to 10mm and fitted 2 support bars which shares the load at each end of the reel mount. Radial bearings are all suppoted by thrust bearings - the axial loads are very high. The drag system was the easy bit - once I sorted out the supply spool coupling. It's just a simple lever drag reel type of system. Hope this helps and don't let the apparent complexities put you off - it's do-able :)
Hi Tiddlerbasher,
Thanks very much for your precious advice.
Guess, I have to read up more on the gearing system.
Quote from: Tiddlerbasher on May 11, 2015, 08:43:09 AM
Hi Nuvole,
The baseboard is a kitchen cupboard door 28" x 20", left over from a makeover.
The sewing machine motor can't produce the power and torque required for this job (been there tried that ::)). This is why I went for the 36v DC E-bike motor - they are cheap, controllable, and easily available (e.g. Ebay $17). Being DC means it can be reversed (when spooling spinners). PWM motor control provides good torque even at low speeds. It will still need to be geared down. I used twin small timing pulleys to give a ratio providing 180 rpm (plenty quick enough). The reel mount,for spooling braid, has to be very strong. There is a surprising amount of pressure applied to it. My original attempt used 8mm bolts - they bent easily :o. I upgraded them to 10mm and fitted 2 support bars which shares the load at each end of the reel mount. Radial bearings are all suppoted by thrust bearings - the axial loads are very high. The drag system was the easy bit - once I sorted out the supply spool coupling. It's just a simple lever drag reel type of system. Hope this helps and don't let the apparent complexities put you off - it's do-able :)
Absolutely beyond words! Ingenious work there!!!
Destined for the Smithsonian!
Cheers Guys :) It was born out of sheer frustration and necessity. No shop in the UK spools braid correctly. Come to think of it - I have never found one that can spool mono properly ???
In the UK we are a decade+ behind the US in terms of fishing tackle :( Most tackle shops are primarily concerned with crap fishing (intentional typo :D).
Hi Chris, that's nothing short of amazing mate!
How long did it take & when can you make me one?? LOL
Pete
Hi Pete & welcome!
The initial build took abot 1 1/2 weeks - a few hours a day. The refinement took months :D - I've literally just finished an upgrade to the "drive tower" to improve the adjustable mounting system. These things just evolve sometimes. I still get a buzz when somebody watches me spool their reel with hundreds of meters of line - effortlessly - ;D Making you one could take quite a while :D
I really need to learn more about motors and PWM controllers...
Quote from: Bryan Young on June 16, 2015, 08:41:46 PM
I really need to learn more about motors and PWM controllers...
Hey Bryan. I know where a real nice machine is sitting that you can use anytime so you don't really need one of your own and nice as it is and this is the nicest one I have ever seen it can't make drag drag kits for all us penn heads!
Quote from: David Hall on June 16, 2015, 10:43:08 PM
Quote from: Bryan Young on June 16, 2015, 08:41:46 PM
I really need to learn more about motors and PWM controllers...
Hey Bryan. I know where a real nice machine is sitting that you can use anytime so you don't really need one of your own and nice as it is and this is the nicest one I have ever seen it can't make drag drag kits for all us penn heads!
Hahaha, I do use it when I want or need to. It's really strong since Jim mounted a new motor and controller...so strong that if you were to put the direction on backwards, it would definitely break the reel. A manly line winder...lol
I have been thinking that what we reel guys need is for some promising entrepreneur to design a good reel spooling machine, obtain a patent, and manufacturer, then fill the gap by offering a better mousetrap at a more reasonable cost then the big boys. I know this would be alot of work, and take some financing, but there is a need. Its been several years since this was done with spooling machines. Just a thought.
Quote from: Tiddlerbasher on June 16, 2015, 08:24:05 PM
Hi Pete & welcome!
The initial build took abot 1 1/2 weeks - a few hours a day. The refinement took months :D - I've literally just finished an upgrade to the "drive tower" to improve the adjustable mounting system. These things just evolve sometimes. I still get a buzz when somebody watches me spool their reel with hundreds of meters of line - effortlessly - ;D Making you one could take quite a while :D
Must be a typo surely don't you mean 1 1\2 years :D
Seriously mate you could sell shed loads of them!
I'm really impressed & a bit intimidated. Thinking maybe will lookout for something second hand.
Still in awe of your inventiveness & engineering skills.
Cheers again
I like it, gets an even lay of line, very clever.
Im going to put up a thread on line removal,
your post triggered my memory.
I decided it was time to strip and inspect the drag system (it's done the equivalent of many kilometres of line). I had already checked the drive system - all still good.
Comparison between used kevlar drag disc and original material. No great difference :)
This kevlar product is not like floppy "woven" kevlar (stab vests, nomex etx.) it feels more like dense cardboad. It is apparently made from compressed fibres without a resin binder. Very easy to cut with scissors, xacto knife, wad cutter - best of all NO itchy dust ;D
(http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b521/Tiddlerbasher/P1010024%20Custom_zpsuhavd9qz.jpg) (http://s1290.photobucket.com/user/Tiddlerbasher/media/P1010024%20Custom_zpsuhavd9qz.jpg.html)
ss drag disc mounted on support tower
(http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b521/Tiddlerbasher/P1010044%20Custom_zpsudgfes0b.jpg) (http://s1290.photobucket.com/user/Tiddlerbasher/media/P1010044%20Custom_zpsudgfes0b.jpg.html)
Some of the original polishing marks are still visible along with some slight scoring (after all it does live in a workshop ::))
All bearings are in good shape including the thrust bearing :)
I intend to dual-drag this beast by the addition of a similar kevlar & ss disc on the other side of the drag tower. It should provide more efficient heat distribution :-\. It will also remove the need for a thrust washer.
I was bored - no fishing - no honey can you's -nothing else to fix - I needed a challenge :D
Tiddlerbasher thanks for reviving this thread. I had forgotten about this post of your fine machine. If you need a project you could build a Drag Queen for me. Dominick
Hi Dominick I know your kind comment was probably tongue in cheek but - Most of my 'projects' rely on sourcing cheap, preferably free, offcuts. Easy for a one off (sometimes) not so easy for multiples. Everything the 'Drag Queen' does could be simulated with a large fishing reel (with a decent drag) as a drag/line source. The really important part is the motor drive - it removes the hard work of winding ;D 600 metres of 80lb braid @10lb drag is bloody hard work ;) The simplest route is to chuck-up an 8 or 10mm allen key (covered in plastic sleeving) in a drill. Clamp the drill (some how) and use it to crank the reel. All you then need is a thick plank with a reel at each end (on reel mounts of course) with the clamped drill. It is more about endevour than rocket science ;).
You got lots of talent buddy, thanks for bringing some here.
Quote from: Tiddlerbasher on October 31, 2015, 06:30:18 PM
Hi Dominick I know your kind comment was probably tongue in cheek but - Most of my 'projects' rely on sourcing cheap, preferably free, offcuts. Easy for a one off (sometimes) not so easy for multiples. Everything the 'Drag Queen' does could be simulated with a large fishing reel (with a decent drag) as a drag/line source. The really important part is the motor drive - it removes the hard work of winding ;D 600 metres of 80lb braid @10lb drag is bloody hard work ;) The simplest route is to chuck-up an 8 or 10mm allen key (covered in plastic sleeving) in a drill. Clamp the drill (some how) and use it to crank the reel. All you then need is a thick plank with a reel at each end (on reel mounts of course) with the clamped drill. It is more about endevour than rocket science ;).
The kind comments were not tongue in cheek only the "build one for me" was. Dominick
Gotcha ;D
Just a thought but why not greased CF drags?
I begged a sample of kevlar brake material from a UK company so I thought I would use that instead. The kevlar (run dry) has less start-up inertia that dry cf has. Also a greased cf disc would be open to the elements in a workshop enviroment - all the crud would stick to it :(. I did try both cf and kevlar - the performance was similar - on this application the kevlar did run slightly cooler for a given drag setting. The wonders of tribology :D
I have since run the kevlar in a couple of spinning reels. They work fine under test conditions - nice smooth drag :) Symetrical/concentric drag discs only - no ears or keyed holes - I'm not convinced that 1mm kevlar would work for that. It works fine for compressive forces not convinced about shear forces :-\
Sal - almost missed your post. Thanks for the kind words. As long as you guys will have me I'll keep sharing :)
Update.
I've now ugraded the drag to dual force. I figure it is a better engineering solution. I never did like the idea of wasting energy by compressing a thrust bearing. This time no thrust bearing and opposing drag surfaces. The drag is plenty smooth past 35lbs - I stopped testing at that point. The heat distribution is far better. Running down a battery drill at 10lb drag produces no discernible temp rise (to the touch) - it was noticeably with the single disc.
Photos - pardon the quality I must get a new camera ::)
Components of original drag - Drag tower with brake plate - drag disc - washer - 2 pairs of bellevilles ()() - washer - spring washer - adjustment knob - every bit from fleabay :)
(http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b521/Tiddlerbasher/P1010028%20Custom_zpsj4gefwg0.jpg) (http://s1290.photobucket.com/user/Tiddlerbasher/media/P1010028%20Custom_zpsj4gefwg0.jpg.html)
Adjustment side brake plate with spring pin fitted to shaft.
(http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b521/Tiddlerbasher/P1010033%20Custom_zpsjbbniydb.jpg) (http://s1290.photobucket.com/user/Tiddlerbasher/media/P1010033%20Custom_zpsjbbniydb.jpg.html)
Spool drive side assembled with drive screws and centering bush.
(http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b521/Tiddlerbasher/P1010036%20Custom_zpsvz6fxcbu.jpg) (http://s1290.photobucket.com/user/Tiddlerbasher/media/P1010036%20Custom_zpsvz6fxcbu.jpg.html)
Drive side - showing spring pin in position
(http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b521/Tiddlerbasher/P1010031%20Custom_zpseokgcns3.jpg) (http://s1290.photobucket.com/user/Tiddlerbasher/media/P1010031%20Custom_zpseokgcns3.jpg.html)
Side view of fully assembled drag system with dual drags
(http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b521/Tiddlerbasher/P1010022%20Custom_zps9sjujyr7.jpg) (http://s1290.photobucket.com/user/Tiddlerbasher/media/P1010022%20Custom_zps9sjujyr7.jpg.html)
Now if only I could 're-engineer' my lever drag reels this easily ::)
Absolutely love this home engineering masterpiece!
Chris - I've only just caught your comment from long ago - I thank you sir for the kind words :)
I realize this is an old thread. Such a shame Photobucket started to charge for their third party picture hosting. Is there elsewhere that the pictures can be viewed?
If you use Firefox or Chrome - there is a plugin that still allows you to see the Photobucket pics ;)
You can have as many browsers as you like (on a PC - don't know about Apple :-\)
Quote from: Tiddlerbasher on December 29, 2017, 01:54:07 PM
If you use Firefox or Chrome - there is a plugin that still allows you to see the Photobucket pics ;)
You can have as many browsers as you like (on a PC - don't know about Apple :-\)
A quick search and I found the app. Photobucket pics show up now. Thanks,
No problemo :)