I recently rebuilt the drag stack on my Surfmaster 200 using Penn parts from Scott's aka mysticparts.com (plus the carbon washer under the main gear replacing the fiber one). I used Cal's liberally on all of the drag washers. Setting the drag for my first post-overhaul trip with the reel, I was surprised to experience drag startup judder.
The reel is spooled with 30 lb. mono. With the reel on the rod, I tie the line to a gallon jug full of water (8 lbs and noise) and set the drag to lift it just clear of the ground. Using other reels, the jug takes line smoothly. Not so here. It is hard to see how I could have screwed up the drag stack rebuild, simple as it is.
Thoughts? Thanks.
--Mike
"Edited as per Moderators to correct Scott's Bait & Tackle over to their new store name Mystic Reel Parts / www.mysticparts.com"
The 200s are a great reel. All the Surfmasters are very good.
Assuming the drag stack is new for both the HT-100s and the SS metal discs -- make sure the order is correct, and that the eared discs are seating properly after installing the bridge assembly.
Also make sure that the under gear CF washer is not too large of a diameter -- enabling it to have a larger radius than the start of the gear teeth -- if the UG washer is too large, it will interfere with the operation of the drag, gear, and in some cases -- the dog & spring. Some are using a smaller Delrin washer with good results.
Also check for any corrosion or pitting on the inside of the gear, gear sleeve, etc.
Make sure the new drags are the right size...are they slightly loose? -- or too tight?
Check the pin and gear sleeve for smooth operation.
Let us know if there are any issues after these checks.
Best,
Fred
Thanks for the prompt reply, Fred. I've been fishing , and just got a chance to go through your checklist today. All the mechanicals check out. (BTW, the gears are new - I started this project after discovering corrosion inside the main gear. I have also swapped in a stainless gear post and AR dog.)
I see the judder only when the drag is buttoned down to its limits. Is the issue just that I have actually exceeded the drag limits? Thanks again.
Regards,
Mike
"Judderin" means jerky drag?
Inspect the contact surfaces on your main gear and metal drag washers for bumps gouges or rough spots. If you have steel gears pitting under the gear can cause this.
Yes, jerky on startup. Gears are new and clean.
Make sure your new pinion is engaging the spool correctly. I encountered this problem when mating new pinions to an old spool.
Basic functioning of the reel is there. How would I further check pinion engagement?
Is it expected that all of the carbon and metal washers fit down inside the main gear? Because the top of the stack sticks up above the gear.
I would check the Yoke for wear at the point where the pinion is mounted.
Mike
As long as the top eared washer is below the top of the main gear you are fine. The top keyed washer is often above the main gear.
Ron
Quote from: mike1010 on September 04, 2014, 06:03:44 PM
Basic functioning of the reel is there. How would I further check pinion engagement?
(http://i1300.photobucket.com/albums/ag93/darondyer/IMG_2108_zps3f706b8e.jpg)
maybe the frame is torqued and the spool is rubbing against the frame.
Back at it. Pinion engagement seems fine. Don't know about the frame torquing, but I did find a crack in the right side plate, at the hole for the screw the AR dog rides on. Am now looking to replace the side plate, and will let you know whether that fixes things. Who knew that 60 year old bakelite could fail :->?
--Mike
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/8zx88gqw0j32jvx/screw-hole_zps09e4cec8.JPG?dl=1)
Greg sells Tiburon frames for these $65 shipped. It is the way to go. I have a custom 5 stack in mine.
(http://i1300.photobucket.com/albums/ag93/darondyer/IMG_00141_zpsfc6170cc.jpg)
No doubt, but it's the old "how much to spend" question.
Quote from: mike1010 on September 06, 2014, 06:52:44 PM
No doubt, but it's the old "how much to spend" question.
How much is to be determined by the builder...I quit counting $$$ When I realized I love this hobby and that there is far worse things to spend my money on. These guys know what they are talking about and have helped me spend quite a few $$ ;D ;D ;D
I also quit counting $$$on this one
(http://i743.photobucket.com/albums/xx76/fresnotim/100_2441_zpsa4230eea.jpg) (http://s743.photobucket.com/user/fresnotim/media/100_2441_zpsa4230eea.jpg.html)
Quote from: Big Tim on September 09, 2014, 11:31:03 PM
I quit counting $$$ when I realized I love this hobby...
Wise, indeed, Big Tim. Geez, if I even thought about how much I've spent in the last year... (http://forums.snapstream.com/public_html/ubb/eek.gif) (http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Surprise/surprised-003.gif)
~
A~
It's only money. ;)
I'm so sick now I'm doing this!!!!!!
(http://i743.photobucket.com/albums/xx76/fresnotim/100_2762_zpsabb36f84.jpg) (http://s743.photobucket.com/user/fresnotim/media/100_2762_zpsabb36f84.jpg.html)
(http://i743.photobucket.com/albums/xx76/fresnotim/100_2758_zps48beec06.jpg) (http://s743.photobucket.com/user/fresnotim/media/100_2758_zps48beec06.jpg.html)
That a good looking rod there Tim. I know how frugal you are and that was the best 4 bucks you ever spent! ;)
Quote from: Shark Hunter on September 10, 2014, 02:37:42 AM
That a good looking rod there Tim. I know how frugal you are and that was the best 4 bucks you ever spent! ;)
I squeak when I walk D
With a new right side plate, there are no drag start-up issues. Having said that, I am skeptical that the crack was the cause; because the crack did not go all the way through to the outside of the plate, the head end of the screw was well supported. The other end is in the bridge plate, of course, so I don't see an opportunity for the screw to move from pressure on the AR dog. If I get the chance, I will play around with the old plate a little to try to figure out what was going on.
Thanks, all, for the suggestions to go the full monty route, but that has never been my intention for this reel.
Mike
Mike,
Plates can warp, and you can't really tell until you swap them with a new one.
That being the case, the same stresses that cracked the plate could also have warped it.
One other thing: That little leaf spring for the AR dog looks untrustworthy to me. Any direct replacement upgrades?
Thanks.
I bought all the stainless ones Bryan had. They went to double dog goodness.
I have some Titanium sheet I am messing around with. Stock spring will work fine, just make sure its not bent in the wrong places.
You are in Jersey. Mystic Reel Parts should be able to hook you up with a new one.
"Edited as per Moderators to correct Scott's Bait & Tackle over to their new store name Mystic Reel Parts / www.mysticparts.com"
Quote from: mike1010 on September 11, 2014, 07:06:38 PM
Thanks, all, for the suggestions to go the full monty route, but that has never been my intention for this reel.
Well, that was then. After the initial upgrades, I realized the 200 was wider than I currently like, so I got a kit from MysticParts to make the 200 a 100, which became my go-to reel for bluefish chunking and togging.
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/yg6y8dn455f9dkk/IMG_20150205_155551445_zpspztbiynp.jpg?dl=1)
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/dg4mvwcokkhcjn4/IMG_20150205_155449999_zpsybpk33ws.jpg?dl=1)
Then I started thinking that the reel could use a little more drag capacity, at least for headroom, but if I was going to do that, I wanted to lose the posts. And then there was this thread about replacing the slotted screws with socket head cap screws.
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=12495.0
So I ended up doing a few upgrades.
Carried over are the bridge, shimmed AT SS gear sleeve and Lee's SS dog, dog spring, under-gear Delrin washer, pinion, yoke springs, yoke, and jack.
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/873ffxucpelm0p2/IMG_20150205_160804742_zpsxlzrbgft.jpg?dl=1)
New are the Tib frame; Black Pearl's custom spacer sleeve; socket head cap screws for the tail plate, bridge, and handle lock; a 24-56 handle; a 10-66 star from Mr. Tani, and Bryan's five-stack topped with an acetal spring washer. Also, I cleaned up the original, steel main gear and brought it back.
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/n4nw7awdxcpaw40/IMG_20150205_160835033_HDR_zpsblexqugs.jpg?dl=1)
The head on the handle lock screw had to be reduced to fit. Here is the stock screw, the replacement as it comes from McMaster, and the fitted replacement. My Dremel skills have improved since producing the slightly conical head on the replacement.
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/2r3icurjiubz9uy/media-20150125_zps3xffdlar.jpg?dl=1)
I could not find partially threaded 6-40 SS cap screws long enough for the yoke bridge screws, so ended up turning down fully threaded ones. The result has less meat than the original screws, but the yoke moves smoothly, and the screws should be strong enough. Time will tell. Better Dremel skills evident here, I hope
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/z0bt1w9rgoaclev/IMG_20150211_122636730_HDR_zpspsa8b8uj.jpg?dl=1).
This is roughly state of the art for Surfmaster drive trains, as far as I know.
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/mh6xe8y4utb7ocv/IMG_20150205_161438737_zpswayyc30x.jpg?dl=1)
Socket head cap bridge, tail plate, and handle lock screws:
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/j17mobgsi8sjvp8/IMG_20150205_162459960_zpsimdu9crn.jpg?dl=1)
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/lepfk2bk7xnxoz3/IMG_20150205_165633355_zpsiarwgqdb.jpg?dl=1)
When Randy gets back from the show, I hope he will be able to help me with a red 24-56, which I think the reel wants.
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/yy8yf18ffzyzhde/IMG_20150212_090951410_HDR_zpse3jgsgup.jpg?dl=1)
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/nckv2vyaoju2f3j/IMG_20150205_165711126_zpsscbaydit.jpg?dl=1)
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/s9p3i47iwa7comw/IMG_20150212_090236696_HDR_zpsfgmfzjmn.jpg?dl=1)
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/gs4wsgfzgluahuw/IMG_20150212_090247654_HDR_zpspoalodqt.jpg?dl=1)
I didn't break lots of new ground here, but am happy to have learned enough from folks on alantani.com (http://alantani.com) to put this reel together. Thanks.
"Edited as per Moderators to correct Scott's Bait & Tackle over to their new store name Mystic Reel Parts / www.mysticparts.com"
Fantastic job, Mike --
Best,
Fred
That's one mean screw working machine you got there. I can see all of your hard work and it paid off. Superb.
I wouldn't worry about the yoke screws. That bridge is held in place by 4 screws...it will take a lot of force to sheer those screws.
Thank you for sharing Mike.
Nice.
I like the 100 Surfmaster too.
Very Nice Mike! That Reel looks Awesome! ;)
Thanks, guys.