I just upgraded my Jigmaster with a set of 5:1 gears from Newell and a 4/0 Kolekar grip and I hope to give it a workout in the next few weeks. The grip part was easy thanks to Pete and Alan. The gears required a little work in order to make them function.
The instructions for enlarging the cavity for the main gear were simple enough as I only had to scrape about 1/64" off the cavity wall so the larger diameter main gear would turn easily. The instructions from Newell also said if you can't back off your drag enough to scrape away the plastic area around the metal insert that the gear sleeve fits through. I did that and no change - it still felt like 10# of drag at the minimum. So I scraped a little more and finally got out the Dremel. After my fourth try of reassemlbing with no change I was pretty frustrated and was about to hit it again tomorrow. Finally the dim light in my head finally went on. I measured the spacer sleeve and found one about .5mm shorter in my parts bin and put it in. Voila! I can go from zero drag to almost total lockdown.
The moral is 1] before you grind, try a replacement part; 2] the instructions are not always right; 3] think about the normal way to solve a similar problem.
Rob
glad it worked!
"The moral is 1] before you grind, try a replacement part; 2] the instructions are not always right; 3] think about the normal way to solve a similar problem."
I should have said, "The moral is . . . 2] the instructions are not always right, except for Alan's; . . . ."
This is one of those Black Box things that screamed "GOTCHA!" at me. Nothing like experience.
Norcal,
Good problem solving... I just ordered the same gearing, and I'm gonna try it in my penn 112h. Your advice is just in time! Last night I had to take apart my two umbrella rig reels (113hsp's) due to serious binding in the eccentric lever. These were 2 of the 4 that I put on steroids- Newell 4:1 gearing, tiburon frame, stainless yoke, and custom handle. After disassembling twice I come to realize the eccentric jack wasn't able to push the stainless yoke down so the pinion was getting stuck under the bridge. I thought if the pinion was seated on the spool spindle properly this would be impossible, but I guess not. I had to change out the stainless yokes with the brass and no problems since. When I put the stainless yoke on the pinion it is much loser and much more play... The brass yoke hugs the pinion much better... all fixed, but I would like the extra power in my babies... any suggestions? Thanks
Dom
hey, dom, the pinion gear and yoke are getting stuck, right? remember that you have four bridge screws, two with short threads and two that are threaded the entire length of the screw. the yoke springs ride on the screws with the short threads. any possibility that you mixed the up?
Quote from: broadway on August 30, 2010, 04:52:17 PM
Norcal,
Good problem solving... I just ordered the same gearing, and I'm gonna try it in my penn 112h. Your advice is just in time! Last night I had to take apart my two umbrella rig reels (113hsp's) due to serious binding in the eccentric lever. These were 2 of the 4 that I put on steroids- Newell 4:1 gearing, tiburon frame, stainless yoke, and custom handle. After disassembling twice I come to realize the eccentric jack wasn't able to push the stainless yoke down so the pinion was getting stuck under the bridge. I thought if the pinion was seated on the spool spindle properly this would be impossible, but I guess not. I had to change out the stainless yokes with the brass and no problems since. When I put the stainless yoke on the pinion it is much loser and much more play... The brass yoke hugs the pinion much better... all fixed, but I would like the extra power in my babies... any suggestions? Thanks
Dom
Hey Dom,
More power sounds like Tim 'the tool man" Taylor. Get a Binford 9000 reel! I do have two serious ideas. Get a Kolekar grip from Alan. The bigger-than-stock grips fill your hand well so you don't get cramps in your hand and they feel great! I have big hands so I use the 6/0 and 4/0 sizes. Second is if you've got s/s gears, check out the 98-320AT s/s gear sleeve at PennParts for $25. I think you'll be okay with the brass yoke as it is not in the power train once the pinion is engaged.
Maybe there are more, or better, ideas out there. Good luck.
Rob
Rob,
You're right about those monster handles, I love 'em... that's why I bought 4 or 6 (can't remember) from Alan. As for the gear sleeve, I forgot to mention I also installed them as well (knew I missed something, actually 2 things- the greased carbontex drags also). They're as pumped up as can be with the exception of accurate side plates, which I don't think are worth it for my application. Thanks for 2 good recommendations!
Do you know why the stainless yoke won't work or how to rectify it? anyone...hmmm?
Hey Alan,
The wrong bridge screws would/ has done something similar in the past when I first started, but not this time. The issue I'm having is happening to all 4 of my wirelining HSP's that I installed the stainless yokes in. It's definitely the yoke cause she flips like a dream now. As a side note I did find the small hole in the eccentric had gotten bigger/ stripped where the eccentric spring goes. I believe what causes this is when letting out the wire while trolling a fish grabs on, and the angler then switches to retrieve. I could be wrong, but it seems to be to 2 out of 2 that I've checked on the wireliners and none of the bottom fishing outfits. What do ya think? Thanks
Dom
i dunno, dom. for starters, maybe try sticking with the brass yokes for now, then check them in a few months and see if they are worn. if not, you should be good for a while. it sure sounds like the stainless steel yoke is getting hung up somewhere........
Dom,
Have you checked all of the dimensions of the s/s yokes - the screw hole diameters, thickness, outline, etc.? Look (do you have a strong magnifying glass?) and feel all of the edges for roughness from the stamping process. Maybe filing the edges exactly flat / perpendicular to the plate if they aren't already. Just more possibilities.
Rob
I'm gonna check the yoke more closely, but it looks like the radius where it rounds inward to hold the pinion has less of a radius than the brass one. The length, thickness, and screw holes line up perfectly. Alan, I can see the yoke and eccentric sticking when I tilt it with the bridge closed up. How I figured out it was the yoke was when I tilted it I put a screwdriver under the bridge, and pushed down on the yoke... and that freed it up. After 5 times I knew that was the culprit. Thanks
Dom
Hi all,
I've been in touch with Charkbait to get hold of some Newell high-speed gears for my Jigmaster and 113H but, as others have no doubt found, they're unavailable due to supply issues at Newell.
Any suggestions on where else I might look?
If they're not available, does anyone know where I could obtain a standard ratio SS main gear for my 113H?
I've already upgraded to greased 5+1 HT-100 drag, and SS yoke and gear sleeve (and am now considering Alan's Tiburon option).
Thanks, Justin
Hi Justin -
It's a wild guess, but Dawn at Smoothdrag may have what you're looking for. There's also eBay. Have you given Newell a ring directly? They may have them and just haven't shipped to Charkbait yet. I found that to be true once before. Good luck.
Rob
Rob, don't you have a set on your bench? ;D ;D ;D
You're right about calling Newell direct, but believe or not they where raughly $8 higher than Charkbait per set, don't ask me how. :-\, I'm going back at least a year though. It could also be that I used to buy bulk $400 to $500 order at a time. Justin, did you speak with Leeana? she was always able to help me out. About the 5:1 gear ratio, you can only get it for the Jigmaster, I don't think that you'll be able to do better than 4:1 for the 113H.
Hey, does anyone have the Newell or accurate gears for the 114H that doesn't need , if you do drop me a line and I'll make you a nice offer ;).
Great, thanks for all the input - much appreciated.
I'll try Dawn (and Newell direct) and let you know how I go.
All the best, Justin
Redsetta,
I just bought a complete set of 5:1 jigmaster 500 gear set (GK-1) from Newell directly. They are right down the street from my house. I think I paid around $36. plus CA tax. It came with drag metal washers, spacing sleeve, tension spring, gear and pinion. All s/s. I don't know what CB's set includes. If you still need this let me know I will be happy to go and pick one up for you next week...As I am very busy this week.
Panama
Sal,
I'd be broke if I had what I wanted in stock. I'd probably be involuntarily single, too. ;D
You're right, the Newell 4:1 gears are the biggest you can get. (Unless Aaron at ReelSpeed's been at it again.) ;D ;D And they're pricey! Maybe one of these days when I can't think of any other way to spend my retirement money. :-\
Rob
Quote from: Panama on July 06, 2011, 01:42:26 AM
I just bought a complete set of 5:1 jigmaster 500 gear set (GK-1) from Newell directly. ....... I think I paid around $36. plus CA tax. It came with drag metal washers, spacing sleeve, tension spring, gear and pinion. All s/s. ..........
Panama
You did well on that one, Panama. Charkbait gives you the main and pinion gears, that's all.
Rob
Thanks Panama - much appreciated. I'll send you a PM.
how important are all those other components from the newell kit as opposed to the charkbait kit?
apologies for bringing back an older thread, but will the newell 5:1 gear kit fit a 505hs? I was told it will only fit a 500, is this correct?
I believe they do. i have a set of both and they appear to have very similar dimensions, OD, ID, height,...
Quote from: Bryan Young on July 15, 2011, 09:57:18 AM
I believe they do. i have a set of both and they appear to have very similar dimensions, OD, ID, height,...
Bryan, I don't believe that they will work. The 505HS and 506HS have different parts than the 500or 500S.
pullrachet, no need to apologies, that's what this great site is all about. Your part# for the gear is 5-505 and the pinion is 13-505.
I'll take pics of both gears this evening and post.
Is it possible that Newell has more than 1 gear sets for jigmaster reels? Mine is deep and I can fit a 5 carbontex plus smoothdrag's metal washer set in my main gear. The normal main gear for 500 for is a short height, but the 505HS is higher.
Bryan, you're right as usual. I just checked on what I have and the gears appear to be the same, with the exception of the teeth and part number.
What got me puzzeled was that the bridge also had a different part number. Oh well.
So wait, I'm still confused guys. Are there two different newell 5:1 kits floating around out there or will the 500 and 505 use the same newell kit, regardless of factory part # differences?
Quote from: pullrachet on July 15, 2011, 07:37:46 PM
So wait, I'm still confused guys. Are there two different newell 5:1 kits floating around out there or will the 500 and 505 use the same newell kit, regardless of factory part # differences?
You have every right to be confused. To tell you the truth, I'm also a little confused. If the manufacturer has a different number on the part, that part has to be different. I just recalled something, I don't think that you will be able to use that newell kit on that reel, unless you get Alan to customize that pinion gear. Even though the main gear is the same, the inside dimension on the pinion is different. I believe that the 505 and 506 have a different spool shaft. I was able to find the main gear but I do not have the reel itself (if I did, I would check it for you) I am quite sure that you cannot use that kit. Take care! Sal
The 500 and 505 have a different spool shaft and the stock gears are a diff ratio. 500/501 is 4to1, 505/506 is 5to1. The pinons are different both teeth wise and dimension wise because of the spool shaft. Now, gear/pinon combo are interchangleble from 505/506 series to 500/501 series (but not sure on vise versa) spool shaft fit wont be tight.
I have a few reels/parts for both laying around. Maybe I will try it to be 100% sure.
Newell 5to1 gears are deeper/larger than penn 5to1 gears. I have not seen a Newell 4to1 gear for jigmaster. I do know they once made the 4to1 gear for penn 113. And Newell no longer has those for sale.
Hope my 1+1 does add up to 2. Anyone is free to correct my arithmetic.
Anthony
You are correct Anthony, but we're not too concerned about gear ratio as long as we use parts that mesh. Cool name by the way, that's what I named my son.
Pullrachet, the bottom line is.... you can't use the newell 5:1 gear set for a jigmaster reel in your 505HS. Don't give up, I think that Alan has some pinion that he customized in the past. Drop him a line, I'm sure he'll be able to help.
Can I join the ranks of confusion? What reel are we talking about? I though we are now talking only about the 505HS and 506HS. Well, I was only speaking of the 505HS and Newell's 5:1 gear set for jigmaster reels. Unfortunately, I don't have any part numbers. I pick the up Newell 5:1 gear set from Alan out of the "ooh, look what I found Alan...Bryan, do you know what you had just found??? duh, Alan, what did I find?" I have yet to get the Newell gear set in the reel 'cause working on other peoples reels.
Penn on left and Newell on right
(http://i986.photobucket.com/albums/ae348/hawaiiansurfinboy/AlanTani/JigvsNewell1.jpg)
(http://i986.photobucket.com/albums/ae348/hawaiiansurfinboy/AlanTani/JigvsNewell2.jpg)
Well the thread started off in reference to a regular 500, but I kind of threw everyone off with my 505 questions haha. Basically, I have a pair of 505's that I love to death, and come next overhaul when I have everything opened up, I wanted to put in newell 5:1 gears (that I assumed would fit).
Pullrachet,
Why would you want to change the gears in your 505 to newells when they are the same gear ratio..... ???
Pullrachet,
this is what I was looking for yesterday, but couldn't find it. There was already a discussion on your subject.
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=20.msg20#msg20 (http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=20.msg20#msg20)
Quote from: Alto Mare on July 15, 2011, 11:15:18 PM
You are correct Anthony, but we're not too concerned about gear ratio as long as we use parts that mesh. Cool name by the way, that's what I named my son.
Sal: I didn't know you had a son named Panama :-\. Dominick
Quote from: Pescachaser on July 16, 2011, 06:22:39 PM
Quote from: Alto Mare on July 15, 2011, 11:15:18 PM
You are correct Anthony, but we're not too concerned about gear ratio as long as we use parts that mesh. Cool name by the way, that's what I named my son.
Sal: I didn't know you had a son named Panama :-\. Dominick
Have another zin Nicky. ::)
Quote from: Panama on July 16, 2011, 04:00:27 AM
Pullrachet,
Why would you want to change the gears in your 505 to newells when they are the same gear ratio..... ???
Just wanted to upgrade for added strength etc.
By the way, if you didn't know, I poste pics of my 505HS gear and my Newell SS gear for jigmaster.
So are the pinion gears interchangeable or not
Quote from: Marco450r on April 17, 2019, 07:54:57 PM
So are the pinion gears interchangeable or not
Here's what Alan said in the thread link from Sal above:
"If you are ok with a 4:1 gear ratio, you can use the main and pinion gear set for the jigmaster 500 (in a 505). fyi, you actually can fit the 505 high speed gears in a 500 but you have to do some drilling and grinding."
So it seems that you can use the 500 gears in a 505, but using 505 gears in a 500 requires modification to the inside of the 505 pinion gear due to differences in the spindles of the 500 and 505 spools. I'm not sure if the plate would have to be ground out for a slightly larger diameter gear or not.