Hi, guys!
This post is going to be long because I'm including the whole history of how I got to this point and then ramble a bit about what I'm wanting or considering trying to accomplish. Please bear with me! ;D
Back in 2011 I discovered the tx-sharkfishing forum and several others. After pouring over fishing reports, gear threads, and pretty much any shark info I could get my hands on, I had a conversation with Dorsal Dan (one of the moderators over there). He invited me along on a week long sharkin' safari in the Cape San Blas/Mexico City Beach area.
I was so crazy excited only you guys who've had that first big trip will understand. Instead of spending my money on a full kitout of basic gear... I ended up finding a Penn 16/0 on craigslist for 575 shipped to my door. I was VERY nervous at first because it was shipping to me from Guam... It ended up getting here and it was in even better shape than it is now (more on that in a bit). I spooled it up with 130lb Berkley Big Game and then had a moment... Uh, what am I going to fish this with? See... I didn't have a reel. Another gentleman on the forum saw my need and offered free of charge a Fenwick IGFA 80lb rod. This was one bitchin' old school rig!!! I sharked for a week, living in my zero gravity chair. I caught several sharks, my personal biggest was a 7'9" nurse shark. At one point, we realized that even when my drag was backed all the way off, it was no where near free-spool, there was still a noticeable amount of drag. So Dan opened the site up and took a look. The previous owner had gone ahead and done the HT100 upgrade and recently rebuilt it. on the end, there were two stainless drag washers. He removed one of them and said that I'd eventually need to get another but a tad thinner. Back together, it worked but he said it wouldn't be at it's full drag capabilities until I got that last washer replaced. All things must come to an end and this trip was sadly no exception.
I drove straight through and got back home (did I mention I lived in Illinois at the time, making this trip a one shot deal until only this year). I had a mix of ocean separation anxiety and depression over the fact that I wasn't going to be able to repeat that trip for a very, very long time. And I committed the cardinal saltwater fishing sin... I never bothered to clean the salt and gunk out of my gear... and it sat neglected until just last month after getting settled into my new home in St Augustine, Florida.
I stopped by Strike Zone in Jacksonville and they gave me an empty line spool that they had. I pulled off all the line from the rod and hung my head in shame... There was green corrosion on everything once I got the line off and pulled all the humid dryer lint that had collected on the reel and the spool itself had a saline/salt film up both sides of the spool. I sat down with a hot water/dawn dish soap mix and a steel wool pad that has that blue cleaner impregnated into it and a huge helping of elbow grease... I've gotten it about as best as I can... And while it's good compared to many 16/0s I've seen these last few years, I can only remember how amazingly good it looked before my mistreatment. All of the salt and green deposits eventually came off the surfaces, but now there are brass spots showing through on the spool. There is also a small crack on one of the outter rings.
Well, that basically brings us to the current. One of the friends I've made while down here told me about a local shop that he thought used to have a 16/0 that someone had brought in for repair but never picked up. Well I went down there last week, hoping maybe I could get it for a parts reel, after seeing how the parts that are specific to the 16/0 over the 14/0 are becoming Unobtanium... I'd gone in there prepared to spend up to $300 on it, the guy told me to make him an offer... In the end, I walked out of the store with the reel for $100!!! I did not give this reel a super good look over because I was giddy about getting a 16/0 for a hundred bucks, even if it was rough (It *IS* rough!). it's missing the handle and the reel stand is bent but the spool is straight and for the most part looks to be in great shape (better than it looks in pictures) and I haven't even started elbow greasing this one.
Here are the pictures of my first, complete 16/0 (it has the clamp for the stand and the rod brace sets)
(http://i1196.photobucket.com/albums/aa417/merlin7734/Penn%20118%20no1/photo2_zps8e620e57.jpg)
(http://i1196.photobucket.com/albums/aa417/merlin7734/Penn%20118%20no1/photo3_zpsf2eb6677.jpg)
(http://i1196.photobucket.com/albums/aa417/merlin7734/Penn%20118%20no1/photo4_zpsa6d6b5b7.jpg)
(http://i1196.photobucket.com/albums/aa417/merlin7734/Penn%20118%20no1/photo5_zps7c11541f.jpg)
(http://i1196.photobucket.com/albums/aa417/merlin7734/Penn%20118%20no1/photo6_zps9efba331.jpg)
(http://i1196.photobucket.com/albums/aa417/merlin7734/Penn%20118%20no1/photo7_zpsea5496bd.jpg)
Here is the parts reel. The stand is bent like crazy but maybe I can straighten it... Unless someone happens to be working on a stainless one?? *winkwinknudgenudge*
(http://i1196.photobucket.com/albums/aa417/merlin7734/photo1_zps53971c8c.jpg)
(http://i1196.photobucket.com/albums/aa417/merlin7734/photo2_zps004621e5.jpg)
(http://i1196.photobucket.com/albums/aa417/merlin7734/photo2_zps004621e5.jpg)
(http://i1196.photobucket.com/albums/aa417/merlin7734/photo4_zpsb9448d27.jpg)
(http://i1196.photobucket.com/albums/aa417/merlin7734/photo5_zps0012ed4a.jpg)
(http://i1196.photobucket.com/albums/aa417/merlin7734/photo6_zps147d3ac3.jpg)
My friend suggested restoring one to pristine/best possible condition considering the parts available and turning the other into a workhorse shark reel. Initially I was just going to keep the $100 reel for spare parts if I ended up needing them. But now that I know that the 16/0 is just a wide 14/0, part of me wants to restore my main one to original specs as a display piece, and take the spool from the parts reel, get a set of stainless crossbars, and build a 14/0W out of a NIB 14/0...
So that brought me to this forum... and I started reading... and Oh.My.God. the ideas running through my head... The problem is, I don't have the knowledge to do some of the mods I want in my reel.. In a couple of the threads, I believe it was Sal mentioned that the Think Tank around here could do some mods to get the 14/0 and 16/0 drag up to 60-65lbs of drag... Now do I expect to fish at this? Nope. But the numbers game compared to the lever drag crowd plus how smooth the drag would end up being between 20-40lbs would be really awesome. So I'm hoping that might be a reality in the near future. I may see if I can send my side plate to Sal for a double dog mod but I'm not sure if I want to do that to an original 16/0 side plate or if I should use a 14/0 or if he even does this? It's hard to figure out other than who to go to for parts who all does actual work here except Alan Tani...
I guess the deciding factor as far as the parts reel is... is it worth paying for a new or near new 14/0 or just getting the parts to restore it.. I keep going back and forth and would LOVE the forums input and advice here!!!
So that's kind of where my head is at, what I've got, what I'm looking at, and the direction I'd like to end up going. Thanks everyone for the warm welcomes and overall amazing atmosphere here. This truly is a a forum of gentlemen (and ladies!).
Slow down there Sea Dweller!
I always take the line off my reel and do a complete servicing after a trip to make sure the salt doesn't eat my reels up. As far as the 60lb of drag. Sal had mentioned that. I think there were some inserts in the mix for the main gear, but I don't know if they came to fruition. if you want to Hot Rod this. I suggest A stainless arm and 5/0 Kokelar handle. Stainless sleeves might be available for that reel in the near future, but I cannot confirm that. Double Dog it with stainless dogs and it will sound like a machine gun. ;)
The stock 30 to 35lbs of drag should be able to handle some big Sharks with 200lb mono. That's how I would spool it. I run 130lb on my 12 and 14/0's.
Haha, this IS my slow speed, Shark Hunter! ;)
I plan on doing a complete disassembly, but I'm still very much intimidated by the process lol. I found one video of a guy servicing a 12/0 and planned on following that and hoping for the best. I went ahead and got Penn's grease instead of Cal's because that's what my local shop had, and I don't know what to do about that missing drag washer? Maybe I should steal one from the parts reel since that's what I bought it for and my primary already had the HT100 stack..? I'm also considering spending the 65ish bucks to get the 8 stainless cross bars... It seems like cheap insurance and I was already looking to replace the ones I have because of either mild pitting I couldn't get out or the chrome was chipped off on the parts one.
Would you suggest I tackle one reel at a time or work both projects at once? I don't even know where to start with the parts reel since I don't know what I'm going to do with it. Though a tear down and service can't really hurt, either way I guess?
Thanks!
Quote from: Sea Dweller on September 18, 2014, 12:37:27 AM
And I committed the cardinal saltwater fishing sin... I never bothered to clean the salt and gunk out of my gear... and it sat neglected until just last month after getting settled into my new home in St Augustine, Florida.
Sea Dweller, I know you feel better already. Confession is good for the sole (pun intended). :D I would take your friends advice and save one stock as a collector's model. Fish the heck out of the other but keep the guts clean and running smooth. Dominick
They both look fishable again. Finding a new stand will be tough! You might be able to bend it straight again.
Since this is your first build, I would concentrate on the better one first. I have those stainless bars for my 12 and 10/0's. They are a good investment in my opinion. ;) They are cheaper than buying a set of originals.
I bought a 14/0 a couple of years ago from someone on this site. Mine is in pretty good condition but I probably paid more for my one reel than you did for both of yours. I have yet to tear mine apart but I think the internals are probably as good as it is externally. I hang mine on the wall and do not fish it yet. The saving grace for my reel is that my "plinth" is bigger than Dominick's plinth!!! ;D ;D :D
TomT ;D
it looks like it's in pretty good shape to me! ;D
Quote from: TomT on September 18, 2014, 04:33:03 AMThe saving grace for my reel is that my "plinth" is bigger than Dominick's plinth!!! ;D ;D :D
TomT ;D
;D :D ;D
Alan, when you say it looks pretty good, I assume you mean my first one? Other than the brass showing through I'd agree. That one I had originally wanted to just hotrod as much as possible and fish her... Now that I'm leaning towards restoration I'm looking harder and making the parts reel functional.
Does that stand still look serviceable? Should I leave it be or slowly try to straighten it out? How difficult is finding a new or newish stand going to be?
Thanks guys! (PS, for the one I'm going to fish with... I've got a handle idea I don't think you guys have seen or thought of yet! Assuming I can make it work, lol.
I've been collecting senators for a while and have never seen a stand or spool for a 16/0. You have to buy the whole reel. I'm sure they are out there, but the people that have them are not willing to part with them. This reel has been out of production for 25 years.
I think your only option is to try and straighten it. I would take it off the reel while you are attempting this. I wouldn't chance warping the spool.
I was planning on taking it off before straightening it. I don't know a whole lot about metal so I was just double checking that if I try bending it back slow it won't fatigue the metal. Thanks guys!
Welcome aboard Sea Dweller.
Looks like you got yourself a great deal on that 16/0... very nice.
About your bent stand, You could try to straighten it, but most times it will happen again at the same spot, I have seen this before.
If I had to get it fixed, I would probably get someone that works with metal and maybe have him install some type of reinforcement at the bottom side.
Here is another option for you :
http://www.ebay.com/itm/PENN-SENATOR-118-16-0-REEL-STAND-FOOT-/181532145886?pt=US_Taxidermy&hash=item2a4428b8de
It doesn't appear to be in great shape, but definitely fishable. I wouldn't pay more than $60 for it but I've seen them go higher :-\.
Good luck!
Sal
Quote from: Alto Mare on September 19, 2014, 10:32:28 PM
Welcome aboard Sea Dweller.
Looks like you got yourself a great deal on that 16/0... very nice.
About your bent stand, You could try to straighten it, but most times it will happen again at the same spot, I have seen this before.
If I had to get it fixed, I would probably get someone that works with metal and maybe have him install some type of reinforcement at the bottom side.
Here is another option for you :
http://www.ebay.com/itm/PENN-SENATOR-118-16-0-REEL-STAND-FOOT-/181532145886?pt=US_Taxidermy&hash=item2a4428b8de
It doesn't appear to be in great shape, but definitely fishable. I wouldn't pay more than $60 for it but I've seen them go higher :-\.
Good luck!
Sal
Sal why will it bend in the same place? I would heat it until it is red straighten it and reheat it until it is red again then plunge it into water to temper it. I have also heard that plunging it into motor oil does the same thing and makes the metal less brittle. Dominick
Quote from: Dominick on September 20, 2014, 12:29:20 AM
Sal why will it bend in the same place? I would heat it until it is red straighten it and reheat it until it is red again then plunge it into water to temper it. I have also heard that plunging it into motor oil does the same thing and makes the metal less brittle. Dominick
300 series stainless steel cannot be hardened like that. For steels that can be hardened, oil quenching is less harsh, and less likely to cause cracks in steel with a higher carbon content. It would also need to be tempered to restore some of the toughness, as is is very brittle after quenching.
I don't know what alloy they used for the reel seat, so it's hard to say what would work, if anything.
You need to concentrate on the one that is in better shape Sea Dweller. Tackle that stand issue later.
Someone has cranked down on that stand and bent the piss out of it. I think if you straightened it a tad in a vice, it will do. You are not going to find another one.
At times you could find anything even the impossible to find spool :o
http://www.ebay.com/itm/181532597220?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
Funny how we talk about things here and within a day or two, they appear on line :-\ ...they're watching us ;D
:o Holeee Cow! :o
Starting bid $495.00... What is it, Sterling Silver?
Yeah I know, he could easily get $250 for that used spool. This only happens with our Penns ;D
You better jump on that stand. Sea Dweller.
By looking at the corrosion in the pics,I think the Stand is brass.
It should be fairly malleable and adjustable without heating.
Quote from: Irish Jigger on September 20, 2014, 08:01:50 AM
By looking at the corrosion in the pics,I think the Stand is brass.
It should be fairly malleable and adjustable without heating.
I have been waiting for someone to say this
I thought "but didn't Know"
Knowing the material is key
before Hardening or annealing ,bending, bashing or breaking
;) ;)
I just realized who the seller is. I have dealt with Joe before and he's a very nice guy, if there is a way, I'm sure he will work with you.
Quote from: Shark Hunter on September 20, 2014, 07:21:09 AM
You better jump on that stand. Sea Dweller.
I hear this... Ribbit, Ribbit, get froggy on it.
Daron is being a gentlemen about this, as he usually is. I know he's watching it like a hawk, just in case Sea Dweller is not interested ;D
I am interested! Lol. I'm just afraid to bid early and start a war. Thank you to any who are interested but giving me a chance at it first, it really says everything about you guys!
At this point, I will be tackling these beasts kind of in two ways. I'm going to focus on my better shape 16 first, but if I can get that reel stand I'm going to go after it.
So after a thorough cleaning, I think my next task is going to be drag washers. I've heard about a 9+1 kit, I think..? I'm assuming this is carbontex? I assume this means 1 under the gear then the rest to in the stack? Am I going to go through carbontex to order? Also will I need to order the +1 desperately?
Thanks guys for bearing with me on all my questions. I'm stoked about this whole project which is really helping me overcome my nervousness of working on these reels.
I would straighten the stand without heat if possible. Heating it will anneal the brass and make it soft. It would be more prone to bend out of shape under load. There is always a chance it will crack without annealing it. I don't think it will. It takes a good bit of working brass to get it to that point. JMO Bob
The stand is mine. Thanks everyone for the heads up and for the gentlemanly behavior!
I weighed the pros and cons of getting it now vs putting my first 16/0 back into best fighting shape and it's just not worth risking not finding another. Man though... I just cannot believe the price of that spool though!
As to the bent reel stand... Can annealed brass be re-heat treated like steel?
Thanks guys! I appreciate everything and my rainy day fund is rapidly diminishing lol!
Edited to add: still trying to figure out what my best drag stack should be. Should I stick to the HT100 7+1 or go with something else? Sal mentioned a 14+1 stacked super tank and my years are just turning and turning lol!!!
Quote from: Sea Dweller on September 20, 2014, 05:06:22 PM
Thanks guys! I appreciate everything and my rainy day fund is rapidly diminishing lol!
It's only the beginning ;D
The 14+1 didn't do too good, lots of drag, but if I remember correctly, it jumped from zero to 20lbs, nothing before that.
Go with the 7+1 and you should do just fine, we are still working on Hex inserts for that reel, using 1.5mm carbon fiber washers and metal washers.
I'm glad you got that stand, those are very hard to find.
Thanks. I'll stick with the 7+1 and eagerly await you mad scientists working on these big guys!
A question regarding drag I have for you, Sal... Regarding something you said when testing drag in the Tank thread...
You said that when you tested drag that you did it through the rod with the rod bent down but that if you were just pulling the drag straight off the number would be higher... Why not just point your rod straight toward the shark to stop it/increase drag? Sorry if this is a simple thing I'm just not getting. It just seemed like a no brained to me which probably means my brain was on free spool when I thought of it lol.
I just noticed that the link for the 'Spool' is actually for a Parts Kit.
That price now makes more cents. :D
Quote from: Sea Dweller on September 20, 2014, 05:06:22 PM
As to the bent reel stand... Can annealed brass be re-heat treated like steel?
No,take Bob's advice and don't heat it.
Better work it cold and slow.
Access to a hydraulic press may help.
Quote from: Sea Dweller on September 20, 2014, 06:00:31 PM
A question regarding drag I have for you, Sal... Regarding something you said when testing drag in the Tank thread...
You said that when you tested drag that you did it through the rod with the rod bent down but that if you were just pulling the drag straight off the number would be higher... Why not just point your rod straight toward the shark to stop it/increase drag? Sorry if this is a simple thing I'm just not getting. It just seemed like a no brained to me which probably means my brain was on free spool when I thought of it lol.
Always good to lift the rod and let it share the load, but you can't always do it.
Copper and brass are different than steel. If it is in it's annealed or soft state it bends easily. As you keep bending it or hammering on it, it gets harder. Eventually it will reach the point where it must be annealed or it will crack if it is worked more. Heat treating it only makes it softer. Bob
Cone, thanks for the informative feedback! I am now VERY glad I pulled the trigger on that stand, lol.