Picked up two 209's at a garage sale.Both appear identical but one has maroon side plates and one has black side plates. When did PENN change from maroon to black, or vice versa , or were they always available in two different colors?
Maroon is the oldest -- black is newer.
Then there was green in 1956 -- and a couple of years after. Also grey, then black, then red, then black finally again.
Hard to pin down exact dates with Penn -- because they basically built what the market would support, and used up all of the left over parts they had on hand before moving on to the next variation.
Best,
Fred
Thanks,Fred. Was just curious, knew someone would have an answer. Did not know they made that many color variations over the years. Have a great day!
I believe the very earliest 209s were closer to brown than maroon. Also, the cross posts were cut on the ends so that they fit inside the rings a 1/16th inch or so. I've seen exactly one of these...
Hi Bill --
Yeah, I've only seen one of these -- although in my used parts inventory for Penn, there are some posts with the type of ends you describe.
And I think the worm drive idler gear was made from some sort of hard Bakelite or resin plastic material -- instead of white nylon.
These were the earliest models.
Best,
Fred
Fred, does the 1956 apply to all Penns? I have an all green Penn No.9.
Do not know about the "9" -- but that is a likely era.
Mike Cacioppo's new book -- Chronological History of Penn Reels, is an absolute wealth of exhaustive research and information. Covers up to 1957.
Some of the guys on here may have the book, and can look it up for you (Dom?) -- but I won't get my copy until my birthday next month.
That green 9 is a very collectible little reel -- hang on to it, or sell it to me. 😀😀😀
Best,
Fred
The note I have with my green "9" is 1955/56. I have the green 9, 109, and 209 and don't think they ever made a green 309. I need to buy Mike's book. I am glad he finally wrote it, I bet it is a great book.
John
Good to know greenies!
You have first dibs Fred when I go to sell. It's pretty much unused condition. I know I'm not trying to collect anymore. I paid $100 back about 10 years ago on ebay. (I know, I got carried away). It's how I ended up with so many duplicate reels too.
Fred,
You're correct, I got the book a few days ago after waiting a loooong time.
I've only gone through the book, but haven't sat down and had a good read yet.
I'll keep my eyes open and if I come across it, I'll post back.
Can't wait to get a minute to read this thing... looks like it has tons of info!
Thanks
Dom
Actually the first 209 (1950) was black, then 1955/56 was green, then there was just a couple years of a dark brown, then maroon, then back to black again.
Micheal mentions the 209 color progression in his book, but he somehow left out the couple years of dark brown (I have one new in box from 1958). lol, he is working on a revised edition that will likely take several years as more info comes his way. Sorry, I have no clue how to post pics or I would post the first generation black 209 pristene in its original box, as well as the brown 209 that followed the green.
If one of you guys that posts pics wants to PM me your e-mail, I'll send along a few pics
Tight Lines
Here is the pic...
(http://www.haroldrr.com/pics/209b.jpg)
Thanks Len.
If you look close, the one on the left is black, the middle one is dark brown and the one on the right is obviously maroon
The black is the first generation 209(far left). Notice the hex nut for worm drive. That was only on the early black 209's(1950-54). After that it was a slotted round head.
Also note the maroon (far right) 209 has a different designed sideplate than the brown and black. That newer design started right about 1960 with the intro of the maroon 209.
When they went back to black in the 80's, the 209 had completely different designs on both sideplates.
Good stuff Ted, thanks for sharing.
Guys and Gals, Max Doubt is the most knowledgeable man I know, when it comes to Penn reels, I've known him for a while. Ted, send me a pic of that 9/0 and I'll post it.
Sal
and here is the 9/0:
Here it is Sal......the absolute centerpiece to any penn collector.
(http://i766.photobucket.com/albums/xx305/pescatore3/ted1_zps8885ac4a.png) (http://s766.photobucket.com/user/pescatore3/media/ted1_zps8885ac4a.png.html)
(http://i766.photobucket.com/albums/xx305/pescatore3/ted2_zpsfa527f39.png) (http://s766.photobucket.com/user/pescatore3/media/ted2_zpsfa527f39.png.html)
Micheal Cacioppo, author of the recently released "chronological history of penn reels", told me that he knows of only 4 original boxes in existstence today, and he said this box was by far the nicest condition....as well as a unfaded perfect original label. It really belongs in a museum. HA ha, look at the price on the box...$25 for a 9/0 senator, sounds affordable, but this was in the thick of the depression and if a guy was gonna spend $25 on a reel back then, he was gonna use the heck out of it. Consequently most the survivors are ridden hard and put away wet, and just locating one is a near impossibility, much less in near unused condition.
The reel is of course all original first year 9/0 that goes in this box. It was used a couple times, but other than a few spots of plating loss on the spool it is in absolute mint condition.
Hard to imaging having a 300# fish on and trying to reel with that little nob that barely fits your thumb tip and one fingertip.... Likely why this style of nob only lasted the first 2 years.
BTW Sal, if you don't have Micheal Cacioppo's penn history book yet, you are missing out on a mind blowing experience.
Ted, that is a beauty ;). I'm glad that I'm at the very top of your list for when you decide to break them lose ;D
no problem Sal, just get ready to take a 2nd mortgage if you ever want to outbid the big hitters on a reel like that.....I'm still eating top ramen after buying that one.. lol
BTW, my apologies to the original poster for hi-jacking this thread..........Sal made me do it !!!
Hey Sal, you should have an e-mail w/pic of the crank side of the 3 different 209's....perhaps you could post that and put the thread back on subject. I only sent Len the one pic cause My e-mail carrier was messing with me at the time.
You can send them to me one at a time if you wish.
Quote from: Lensters on November 07, 2014, 03:54:07 AM
You can send them to me one at a time if you wish.
Ok, Len, I sent you a shot of handle side and a 2nd shot of clicker sideplate with flash so the colors really stand out.....it's a little blurry, darn camera cant focus after one little glass of vino.....shoulda know better
Hey Ted,
Any chance you picked that 9/0 up recently? I bid on a 9/0 in the box just like that over the summer. It went for about $400 more than I was willing to pay. It is one heck of a center piece for a serious penn collection, which you clearly have. He's right, Sal... Second mortgage time ;)
I wanted that reel so bad, but then I realized I like having a roof over my head just a bit more ;D
She's a beauty,
Dom
PS- Let me know if Sal passes on your toys when you're ready to sell (if ever)
Quote from: broadway on November 07, 2014, 03:10:57 PM
Hey Ted,
Any chance you picked that 9/0 up recently? I bid on a 9/0 in the box just like that over the summer. It went for about $400 more than I was willing to pay. It is one heck of a center piece for a serious penn collection, which you clearly have. He's right, Sal... Second mortgage time ;)
I wanted that reel so bad, but then I realized I like having a roof over my head just a bit more ;D
She's a beauty,
Dom
PS- Let me know if Sal passes on your toys when you're ready to sell (if ever)
Yep, about 6 months ago.
I had kinda sorta hinted to my wife that I may do something stupid at the end of that auction, and then I lived up to my prediction, so she only shook her head at me instead of scratching out my eyeballs and breaking my index finger (the one I type and bid with). Someday that 9/0 will surely get passed on to another person........but that'll hafta wait till the good lord calls my number, till then I'm just a custodian of a piece of history and as long as I have it, the box and reel will be under sealed glass away from all daylight and moisture.
I have no doubt someone from this forum or the orca reel talk forum will eventually end up with it.....who knows, but somehow it sounds like Dom might just be that guy........sal must be broke from modifying reels and is likely not able afford one that sits in a corner to be admired and not used lol....besides, it doesn't have enough drag poundage for Sal anyways
Ted,
I like your style! ...and you've got a heck of a woman, too!
I really thought I was gonna win that reel, but glad it went to a good home.
Also, you're right, it does belong in a museum, but it looks better here on Alan Tani where we can all enjoy it ;)
I'm ready with cash in hand, but until then enjoy her. Sal, you really do need that book... It's eye opening.
Thanks for letting me see her again,
Dom
Dom, I could make Ted an offer he couldn't refuse, if I wanted to, but then I would have to trade it for "Big Red" ;).
Here they are:
(http://www.haroldrr.com/pics/209c.jpg)
(http://www.haroldrr.com/pics/209d.jpg)
I always thought that "brown" was a dark maroon. I have a really pretty one that I plan to sell if I ever get around to taking pictures and listing them.
A lot of people think that dark brown is dark maroon, but once you've seen one that's been used hard and lost it's factory sheen, it is obviously more brown than any other color.
That pic of the clicker sideplate shows the first generation design that changed over around 1960 to the sideplate you see on the far right maroon 209.
Thanks for posting the pics Len.....I just happened to have actual sunshine to use for the picture.....A rare sight this time of year in the Pacific Northwest
Looking at the molding style, mine is probably just a dark maroon as it is the second style. I do have a black of the earlier style molding in the line that is for sale. However, its chrome isn't as pristine.
Sal,
She (big red) loves her home and needs a man in her life... One from about the 1930's in the box.
I've got a pretty nice collection of 9/0's that are in need of a center piece like Teds. I can wait a while... I plan on collecting for a very long time. The hunt is the best part. The only other reel that stands out that I really wanted to see in my collection was a left handed 1/0 new in the box (German silver/green box). It went for $330 about 3 years ago on eBay. I hope it pops up again some day.... I'll be a buyer for sure.
I am curious to see what you'd have to do to get it out of teds paws... Sell your soul? :D
Thanks
Dom
Dom,
Its hard telling what Sal has up his Sleeve! ::)
He is kind of Secretive showing his reels. I was showing off my new ss collection and he shows four NIB 9500's with some sick looking Handles on them I've never seen before.
He has some connections. I think we should start calling him the Godfather! :-*
He has been at it longer than you and me. Hard telling what he has! ;)
Yeah, I keep expecting to see some guy named Sal on that hoarding show on TV ;D
Walk in the house and one skinny walkway thru thousands of reels..........Maybe someone should e-mail the producer of the show..... lol
You got us beat Ted ;).
Daron, this morning I was looking for a new 850, I knew I had it but couldn't find it anywhere. I opened a cabinet in the loundry room and found that reel, along with some more 9500 new with boxes ::).Nice to forget what you have and get surprised ;).
Quote from: Alto Mare on November 08, 2014, 10:05:46 PM
You got us beat Ted ;).
Daron, this morning I was looking for a new 850, I knew I had it but couldn't find it anywhere. I opened a cabinet in the loundry room and found that reel, along with some more 9500 new with boxes ::).Nice to forget what you have and get surprised ;).
Show off. :D ;D :D Although if you got it flaunt it. Dominick
I can't compete with the Godfather! ;)
What I can't figure out is... how does Sal have so many nice and new reels when he's always sending people reels and parts as gifts? ???
That stash must run deep!
Definitely wanna visit Sal someday... We've got a lot to go through. First, a conversation about Dominick's speedo collection, then some fine Italian food, a glance around the workshop, and lastly, to drool at his treasures.
Sals been at this game for a lot longer than most of us, which is a good thing because he gets it and knows how to pass it on to us.
Daron, for someone who's just recently gotten into this hobby I'd say you're doing alright ;)
Thank God for you guys because my fiancé doesn't think my addiction is so bad when she looks at some of your photos. ;D
Any chance someone has that left handed 1/0 in mint condition with the german silver labeled green box? It sold on Ebay 2-3 years ago for about $330? ...I've never seen another that old in left hand, not to mention, in mint condition! :o
I didn't know squat about reels when it came up and bid something like $125. I won't do that again. :(
Thanks
Dom
This thread has been an enjoyable read. When you guys start your communicating, you put some pretty straight history together in a very interesting way.
Yes the first 209 was black but it was also structurally different. The reason some of you have found cross bars with undercut ends was because the first 209 had what Penn called riveted frames. The stand and cross bars fitted into the trim rings and were slightly penned over, so when you removed the side plates, the frame stayed in one piece. You could not order frame parts from Penn for an early 209's because of that. Penn only sold the complete frame in one piece. I would have to go to the books to know exactly when Penn stopped this practice but I would make a guess that they went to a normal type breakdown frame around 1955 when they introduced the reel in the Green color all the collectors look for. That early sacrificial worm drive gear was made of Phenolic in the early reels before it became nylon.
Ted, your 1936 Penn Senator 115 is the absolute best in existence, that I know of. It is not easy for me to say that because I also have one, but yours is definitely better than mine:
(http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo244/m3040c/DSC007541024x768_zps31a2444a.jpg)
Actually my favorite Senator is the 1937 first 12/O because it is a weird big game Penn reel. Imagine a 12/O with a straight handle and no rod braces. It sort of looks like a Long Beach on Steroids:
(http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo244/m3040c/Figure100816x612_zps367a9985.jpg)
The side plates and trim rings for this early 12/O are very rare because they are not cut out for the forward rod harness lugs. By the way, I own this reel but I do not own the handle. These handles are very rare because they were junk. Most people that bought these old 12/O's changed out the handle to the Torpedo type handle. Many garbage pails were filled with this handle, consequently making it very difficult to find. I had to borrow this handle from a collector I know to install it on my reel just for the photo shoot.
Later,
Mike C.
Thanks for the info Mike.
Three years ago I was bidding on a 12/0 similar to the one you're showing, but this one was in excellent shape. Somehow, even though I had bids on it, the reel disappeared and wasn't available anymore :-\. That's when I found out that eBay is a joke.
Sal
Quote from: Alto Mare on December 03, 2014, 02:54:07 AM
Thanks for the info Mike.
Three years ago I was bidding on a 12/0 similar to the one you're showing, but this one was in excellent shape. Somehow, even though I had bids on it, the reel disappeared and wasn't available anymore :-\. That's when I found out that eBay is a joke.
Sal
I agree Sal, eBay can be very frustrating at times. The boxed 1936 9/0 senator I ended up winning last spring was attempted to be hi-jacked by someone who offered a buy it now thru a PM. The seller posted the question on the sale so nobody else would try that. BTW, the attempted hi-jackers offer was 15% of what it ended up selling for. I've seen others disappear the same way, and I have actually done it a couple times myself. Make an offer on a PM and sometimes the seller will take the offer.
I've had a few great deals fall into my lap on eBay, but few and far between on the old penns. My best one was about 6 months ago, a seller listed a used 3/0 senator for $90 buy it now. It looked suspicious, so I clicked on it and it was a first year 9/0 senator with a blue and white 3/0 box. The reel is only stamped "senator" so I assume the unknowing seller thought it belonged to that box. Funny thing is it wouldn't fit halfway in that 3/0 box. I did buy it and the box was shipped next to the reel and seller never mentioned a word about why it would not fit in the 3/0 box, but I wasn't complaining.
Michael, it's always great to read your posts and drool on the cool pics of the ancient penns. Please keep them coming. Sal won't mind.
The 12/0 without harness lugs does look like a long beach on steroids and can't imagine having a 500# fish on with that little nob to crank on, I woulda tossed it too if it was me that bought it new in 1937, then got a look at the newer style just a year or 2 later that was 1,000 times better. Makes sense that most were upgraded.
QuoteThree years ago I was bidding on a 12/0 similar to the one you're showing, but this one was in excellent shape. Somehow, even though I had bids on it, the reel disappeared and wasn't available anymore Undecided. That's when I found out that eBay is a joke.
Hello Sal,
Problem with listings being ended early on EBay is not totally the fault of EBay, it is insecure sellers that fall prey to what I call, "Back Door Offers". What surprises me is that many people that buy and sell on EBay feel that it is OK to end auctions early, even if they have a bid in place.
You have a point about EBay not doing the right thing because they do condone the practice, as long as the seller that is ending the auction early, relists his item immediately with a Buy It Now price. If the ending of the auction is done in that manner, EBay gets its Final Value Fee and all is well in EBay Land. My feeling is the entire practice should not be allowed if there is a bid on an item. An item with zero bids has no one being put off by an early ending to an auction but the item has bids on it should have to go the full auction.
I have been buying and selling on EBay for many years. Before that, I used to Buy and Sell in publications like the Newspapers and the Buylines. Ebay is a thousand times better than those old days of paper classified ads but it is not perfect. I find 99% of my deals on EBay go the right way, it is that 1% that gets under peoples skin. No matter how well something works, it is never perfect. EBay works for me, I also love Flea Markets and Garage sales. I have learned not to ever expect perfection, when I do that, I am never disappointed.
I sell on eBay A LOT! I have had a few people try to back door buy the item! Even had a guy give me his number and try to work out a group deal for some of my items! I dont do this and tell them the only way to get the item is to win the auction! If sellers want people to makes offers then thats why eBay offers the OBO option.
Mike, I've never seen a penn handle in any publications that looks like that. It's always fun seeing your toys that I didn't even know existed. If it's in your book, I just didn't get to the page yet. It's an awesome book that I wish I had more time to read, but I assure you it'll be done asap.
In regards to ebay, I have personally been the turd you guys are talking about, but only with 0 bids on the item. If there are any bids on a reel I feel it's crappy to have the auction end early. As a matter a fact, it happened to me less than a month ago, and the guy gave me some BS about he had to change the handle out for the original... He never resisted the reel. If there aren't any bids at all then it's fair game in my opinion.
Ted, deserves that 9/0 that he won for more reasons then he just bid more. The truth is that he respects the engineering, history, and tradition of that historically important reel. He has shared some photos with me as I mentioned to him that he was bidding against me, also. One thing I know is that because Ted is the current care taker of that beauty I will always be able to see her.
Mike, I'm gonna stop by some day to drool on your rug as you've made me drool on mine a few times this week :D
Dom
QuoteMike, I've never seen a penn handle in any publications that looks like that. It's always fun seeing your toys that I didn't even know existed.
Dom, it is no surprise you have not seen that handle in any Penn publication. The last time Penn pictured a reel with that handle was 1938.
(http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo244/m3040c/Figure1231033x810_zps0a2892af.jpg)
In 1939, Penn changed all the Senators to the first torpedo handles and never turned back to these old types for the big game reels.
WOW! :o
In 1938, a 12/0 was $50.
Compared to today. That's about $650.
QuoteWOW! Shocked
In 1938, a 12/0 was $50.
Compared to today. That's about $650.
Yes, the price increase is insane. I sometimes wonder why a society like the USA cannot balance itself for awhile instead of costs constantly going up. Life could be so much better if we could plan on something costing the same thing next year as it costs this year. Today when you decide to save for an item, by the time you save the cost of the item, your saving will no longer buy it. ???
That's a good reason why I haven't seen it. Do you think the reason reels were so pricey back then was because they were used to feed families and not really for recreation as much?
Thanks,
Dom
Quote from: Shark Hunter on December 06, 2014, 04:03:18 PM
WOW! :o
In 1938, a 12/0 was $50.
Compared to today. That's about $650.
Yep. Did you notice for an extra $2.00 you could get a left handed model? Imagine what that would be worth. Dominick
QuoteDo you think the reason reels were so pricey back then was because they were used to feed families and not really for recreation as much?
That is a questions with more than one answer. It depends what reels you are talking about. Big game reels ( aka Pricey Reels) were about Sport Fishing, not Food Fishing, even back then. What made the Penn reels so popular was that even though their Big Game reels were pricey, they were not as pricey as the competition and they did the job. Penn brought Big Game Fishing to the working class man, before Penn, big game fishing was sport for the money people.
The reels that were about Food Fishing were the simple, low priced reels like the Sea Hawk and the Penn 85 Sea Boy, etc. People that were fishing for food fished for species like Flounder, Porgies, Blackfish and so on.
Touché Mike... That makes sense. I knew the lil guys were for sustenance fishing but wasn't sure if that carried through to the big dogs.
Thanks
Dom
One of my 77's was a little rough. I thought the gears were stripped. All that was wrong was that the side plate screws were loose. You talk about simple. Just a Main gear attached to the Handle and a pinion on the spool. No anti-reverse, no drag. It does have a clicker, but that's it. I will take a picture next time.
QuoteOne of my 77's was a little rough. I thought the gears were stripped. All that was wrong was that the side plate screws were loose. You talk about simple. Just a Main gear attached to the Handle and a pinion on the spool. No anti-reverse, no drag. It does have a clicker, but that's it. I will take a picture next time.
That's what Penn was about when it was founded. A fishing tool that caught fish and was so simple it could be sold Retail for $3.00. A wholesaler only had to pay $1.25 per reel.
In my opinion, the Model F is the first Penn reel. It was the essence of the Penn "Make it Simple, Make it Work" concept. The Model F became the Sea Hawk and the Model 77 Sea Hawk was taken down to the extreme basis of a small winch.
Here was the 1932 introduction of the Model F Illustrated Parts Schematic:
(http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo244/m3040c/Early%20Penn%20reels%201932%20and%201933/Figure6795x444_zpsb3081dd1.jpg)
When a reel is taken down,it is even more simple than the schematic because not everything comes apart:
(http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo244/m3040c/Early%20Penn%20reels%201932%20and%201933/Figure11_zpsec3c8dfc.jpg)
It was simple and brilliant.
The little Model 77 Sea Hawk is attempt by Penn Reels to sort of use the historically significant Sea Hawk model name to sell another very simple reel. After its initial introduction in 1933, the Sea Hawk continued as a regular Penn model until WW II. After the war, the Sea Hawk model name was discontinued until 1958 when this little Model 77 Sea Hawk was introduced. The only real resemblance the Model 77 Sea Hawk had to the original models was its name. The Model 77 was probably the simplest reel ever made by Penn and surprisingly it was also a good seller.
Another interesting coincidence was that the 1958, Sea Hawk, Model 77 List Price was $3.00. The List Price of the 1933 Sea Hawk, Model 40 was also $3.00. :o
QuoteTouché Mike... That makes sense. I knew the lil guys were for sustenance fishing but wasn't sure if that carried through to the big dogs.
Thanks
Dom
Actually, big game sport fishing was not at all about the meat. In today's world everyone is always talking about the money value of the meat. In the 1930's, the price of Tuna was $200 a ton. It cost a lot more than what they were worth to catch them between the gear and boats needed to get to them. Big Game fishing, in those days, was always about the challenge.
I gotcha... I was saying that I realize the small Penn reels were used for "food" fishing, just wasn't sure if that was the case for the larger reels as well. Thanks for clearing that up.
$200 a ton?? ... Darn! it's $200+ for 4 people to have sushi around here (not including Sake) ;)
Looking at that parts price list made me wonder if local B+T's sold the parts or did they have to wait order by mail and wait for the Pony Express to gallop on through?
Thanks
Dom
QuoteDarn! it's $200+ for 4 people to have sushi around here (not including Sake)
I think Sushi is delicious if it is cooked properly..................... ;)
with the 209s I have one of the brown ones and two of the red ones I also have a brown one that looks like the red ones. Any thoughts on that.
The 209 colors started out as black in the early 1950's, the mid 1950's the model was teal green. After that the brown shades took over the product and how many variations of brown and red and all that's in between I do not know. There is such a massively long production on this model that knowing all the color variations would be a study in itself, but it is a really good question for the board members to answer. I bet that if different board members started posting pictures of different 209's, we could wind up with a large amount of variations.
I will start it out with the first generation build style of the reel. Here is the first color the 209 was available in:
(http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo244/m3040c/Penn%20Level%20Wind%20Reels/DSC09075816x612_zps47ad2f73.jpg)
When the 209 was introduced, you could have it in any color you wanted it in as long as the color was Black but that changed really quick in 1955 when this Teal Green 209 was introduced:
(http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo244/m3040c/Penn%20Level%20Wind%20Reels/1955PenPeerMonofilwithbox--2001640x480_zps001cfaa8.jpg)
But by 1957, Penn was changing colors again bringing in this maroon color:
(http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo244/m3040c/Penn%20Level%20Wind%20Reels/1957PennPeerMonofil209Mwithboxwrenchandrodclamp015640x480_zps7b50f00e.jpg)
Now into the 1960's, the shades of maroon, brown and red did vary. Maybe someone can help me here with some other shades of Maroon ;D
Here are my 209 reels.
(http://i358.photobucket.com/albums/oo22/dws8199/20150121_220421_zpsogmrfrrw.jpg) (http://s358.photobucket.com/user/dws8199/media/20150121_220421_zpsogmrfrrw.jpg.html)
The whole lot
(http://i358.photobucket.com/albums/oo22/dws8199/05503be0-75aa-4e30-a79f-4e68f1ab77c5_zpsq9sfnert.jpg) (http://s358.photobucket.com/user/dws8199/media/05503be0-75aa-4e30-a79f-4e68f1ab77c5_zpsq9sfnert.jpg.html)
old style brown one
(http://i358.photobucket.com/albums/oo22/dws8199/20150121_220508_zpse89hqo1w.jpg) (http://s358.photobucket.com/user/dws8199/media/20150121_220508_zpse89hqo1w.jpg.html)
brown but newer style
(http://i358.photobucket.com/albums/oo22/dws8199/20150121_220623_zpsbd9mayrp.jpg) (http://s358.photobucket.com/user/dws8199/media/20150121_220623_zpsbd9mayrp.jpg.html)
red newer style 1
(http://i358.photobucket.com/albums/oo22/dws8199/20150121_220548_zpskxjo1pbt.jpg) (http://s358.photobucket.com/user/dws8199/media/20150121_220548_zpskxjo1pbt.jpg.html)
red newer style 2
Dustin
Looks like we have about three different shades of brown. I do not have anything different than what we have already pictured, maybe someone else has a different shade 209.