Just received an order of 5 packs 3/0 Owner ST66 trebles from Owner USA.
They didn't look the same as previous hooks and was more than a little disappointed to note - in microprint on the back card the words 'Produced by Owner - Materials from Japan - Made in China'
Soldering doesn't look as neat & tin plating looks shinier & 'cheaper' NOT HAPPY >:(
Anyone else had Chinese made Owners? If so, any bad experiences?
I am always suspicious when I see "Materials from Japan" on fishing tackle.
What on Earth would the Chinese need from Japan in order to make fish hooks,braid,fluorocarbon or anything else for that matter? >:(
The ST66 is a very strong hook and over-engineered for the application I use them for. If I was putting them on a lure for pelagic game fish I think I would be having some doubts.
At £1.50 per hook I don't think they are over-priced. If the price had to go up 10% to retain Japanese production so be it - Why do these companies not realise that quality is everything?
You really have to wonder what goes through the excuse these guys call brains when these decisions are made. Had the same happen to my favourite Mustad game hooks a couple of years ago. All of a sudden "Made in Norway" stopped appearing on the packets. The money we spend on gear, boats, fuel and tackle to catch a Marlin only to find a hook fails and all is lost for what, so they can save 50 cents on the cost of making a hook. Where will it end, can you make high quality hooks on a 3d printer?
Owner, of course, will still expect to be able to market themselves as a company producing premium products - spouting all the usual BS about 'heritage', attention to detail & so on.......
I use a lot of Owner hooks, I'll watch out for this.
Quote from: Irish Jigger on October 12, 2014, 09:35:54 PM
I am always suspicious when I see "Materials from Japan" on fishing tackle.
What on Earth would the Chinese need from Japan in order to make fish hooks,braid,fluorocarbon or anything else for that matter? >:(
I believe that you were talking about my braided and fluorocarbon. The products I am selling are made in Taiwan. If the raw material is from Japan and made in Taiwan, should I state it is made in Taiwan. I know you don't like anything made in Asia with the exception of Japan. Not all Chinese business men are bad in the US. I also believe that there are some Irish business men are bad, Can I say all Irish business men are not honest?
Sorry to other members in here, I just can not stand this guy keep talking crap about all Chinese products are crap. Believe it or not, most of my stuffs are good. By the way, my fluorocarbon lines are made with 100% "Materials From Japan", and they works as good as other US brands. You can take that to the bank.
Taiwan is not even close to as bad as the PRC when it comes to providing substandard products. I prefer "Hecho en Estados Unidos" but I wouldn't discount products built in "Free China".
http://www.amazon.com/The-World-Is-Flat-Twenty-first/dp/0374292884
Take a look at this book, by Thomas Friedman -- it is a blueprint, Business Bible, and offers a simple understanding of why the World works the way it does in the 21st century.
The following are only my opinions -- but this is what I know and believe -- based on very real experience.
The U.S. is no longer the only quality manufacturing country in the world. I buy very good products from the U.S., Japan, China, Mexico, India, Germany, Denmark, Sweden, the UK, Canada, Southeast Asia, and many others. It is reckless to paint all other countries with too wide of a brush. The Internet, education, and global competition have flattened out a formerly round planet -- with many advantages to be gained -- and cautions.
Apple has sold over 35,000,000 iPads worldwide -- all made in China. Some of the top quality manufacturing companies are based in Asia. India currently has a satellite orbiting Mars. And so does China. Check the labels on your clothes -- a majority are made in Asian or South American countries. Am I willing to pay $45 for a pair of Levi's? No, but I will buy the same quality jeans from Wrangler at $15 -- and guess what? -- Levi's are no longer manufactured in the US, anyway. So it boils down to how much profit I am willing to give some corporation to stoke my righteous ego. How many folks from the U.S. know that their Dodge Cummins Diesel truck has been manufactured in Mexico, in a majority of assembly operations?
For me it is all about two tests:
First, the Harbor Freight test...many tools I purchase are of high quality, some of average quality, and some I just end up tossing in the garbage. Harbor Freight offers adequate tools in a majority of cases -- but your own experience and judgement must come into play. Not all Chinese products are good enough for my use -- and not all American, either.
At $1,300 -- a Shimano Stella is a serious reel. At $140, a Fin-Nor Lethal 100 is also a very good reel -- just costs a little over 10% of the Stella price. Yes, I believe the Stella is a little better in a few areas -- but is it worth $1,160 additional? To me, no -- to others a definite yes.
Second, make connections with an individual at each company you do business with -- not an account computer. I have outstanding relationships with individuals throughout the world -- and our long term partnerships of helping each other are built on a sense of Honor, our word, and good past experience with solid products.
And I guess there would be a third one for me, also: Never leave an old friend for a new friend -- better to have 2 friends than just the next new one.
Free enterprise is wonderful -- but use your own good judgement based on your own needs.
Just some opinions, but check out this book above -- you can also get it from your library for free.
Best,
Fred
This reply is to the Gent from Black Pearl.
As a frendly tip to you to save you from a big fine, US Customs law requires a county of origin on every item imported into the US. The country of origin is where it's produced not where the raw materials are from.
The reason I am famillar with the Law is I spent 23 years living in Asia and was a Vice President of a major importing corporation. we had offices in every country in Asia and I was in charge of the entire package we even had an office on Chung Sang Bah Loo in Taipei.
Many Garments and many other imports from A-Z use components or materials from a third or fourth country but you do not see that on a label you see the country of Origin ( where it was manufactured ).
Be careful the fine is substancial and Customs will drive you crazy from that day on with Inspections & Paper work.
Joel8080
Quote from: joel8080 on October 17, 2014, 07:19:40 PM
This reply is to the Gent from Black Pearl.
As a frendly tip to you to save you from a big fine, US Customs law requires a county of origin on every item imported into the US. The country of origin is where it's produced not where the raw materials are from.
The reason I am famillar with the Law is I spent 23 years living in Asia and was a Vice President of a major importing corporation. we had offices in every country in Asia and I was in charge of the entire package we even had an office on Chung Sang Bah Loo in Taipei.
Many Garments and many other imports from A-Z use components or materials from a third or fourth country but you do not see that on a label you see the country of Origin ( where it was manufactured ).
Be careful the fine is substancial and Customs will drive you crazy from that day on with Inspections & Paper work.
Joel8080
I do know what you are saying. I am good.
Thanks,
Alan
Quote from: Irish Jigger on October 12, 2014, 09:35:54 PM
I am always suspicious when I see "Materials from Japan" on fishing tackle.
What on Earth would the Chinese need from Japan in order to make fish hooks,braid,fluorocarbon or anything else for that matter? >:(
Quote from: Black Pearl on October 17, 2014, 04:07:26 PMI believe that you were talking about my braided and fluorocarbon. The products I am selling are made in Taiwan. If the raw material is from Japan and made in Taiwan, should I state it is made in Taiwan. I know you don't like anything made in Asia with the exception of Japan. Not all Chinese business men are bad in the US. I also believe that there are some Irish business men are bad, Can I say all Irish business men are not honest?
Sorry to other members in here, I just can not stand this guy keep talking crap about all Chinese products are crap. Believe it or not, most of my stuffs are good. By the way, my fluorocarbon lines are made with 100% "Materials From Japan", and they works as good as other US brands. You can take that to the bank.
Okay folks, I've gotten a couple of complaints regarding these two posts. I've left this up. Why? I don't know...maybe a sociology experiment. I wanted to see how this plays out. Maybe in my sick little mind, I want to see if one can see how the other was offended and the response. I treat this community as a family, and every family is dysfunctional. What makes a healthy family is not only how we get along, but how we resolve differences.
I see how Black Pearl felt personally attacked because he has products that are made in Taiwan of Japanese materials. In fact, that is what he stated.
He also made a jab point that "I also believe that there are some Irish business men are bad, Can I say all Irish business men are not honest?" His point is that he cannot generalize all Irish based on one or a few. So, I believe he feels that he is put in the pot of this generalization. It's like saying that all Italians are great lovers...okay bad example. :D Anyway, whether your few experiences may be true, it's not fact for everything.
I will leave this up because it helps remind us that we are a global community, and our site is based on facts. If you say that Omoto, Penn, Shimano, Daiwa, Accurate, Avet, Release Reel,... are bad, we want to specifically know why...your comments need to be substantiated with facts...pictures do help a lot.
Now back to the point. cathauler65, do you have any photos to compare the Owner hooks made in China versus Japan? Are the hooks authentic or counterfeit? Have you contacted Owner and shared with them about the quality of their hooks and how they resolved it. It's quite possible that the issue may be isolated to a lot.
Thanks Bryan for stepping in. I was just about to delete this site from my favorites list.
Yea! Brian. :) Dominick
Although passionate, I thought the conversation was pretty civil.
QuoteFree enterprise is wonderful -- but use your own good judgement based on your own needs.
Well posted Fred-Thanks
Carl Z
Vancouver BC
Hi All,
This is an interesting discussion, and some generalisations have been made, which may or may not upset some folks in our 'global family' – but the discussion does have value. What one person in the 'family' offers as a new observation, might well be of benefit to many others – this is the basis of our 'information exchange'.
A potential problem arises when folks are perhaps a little short of time and shoot off a reply – perhaps with less than adequate explanation for their point of view. We all have personal prejudices – justified or just stupid – but as Bryan says we are all dysfunctional – but it doesn't make comments wrong – just short on facts.
We have all seen how lots of companies have evolved or diversified to remain competitive in the global market – Mustad, Diawa and Shimano are prime examples. Both Diawa and Shimano have subsidiary factories outside Japan, to make their products; yet for their prime products they still retain manufacture in Japan. The global market demands a certain level of quality balanced against price, and this is what some of these companies are doing – just to stay in business.
There will be those in our 'global family' that have enough years on their body to remember when no one would touch products with labelling stating 'Made in Japan' – this was certainly the case in the 1950-60 period. Mass produced items of that period were seriously problematic – but cheap, then they started to refine their production priorities to focus on quality, and now everyone holds a product with a 'Made in Japan' label in high esteem. Taiwan went through the same evolution – as a generalisation. What is going to happen when Chinese manufacturing goes through that evolution???
By the very nature of our 'family' and its make up, we probably have some very diverse and knowledgeable people in our midst – as that is the nature of our group – we are inquisitive enough to look inside our reels, rather than just take them to a shop to be serviced. And when we look, we find some of the shortcomings of various manufacturers. We also find some of the excellence in some reels as well, but it is the fact that we 'look' that sets us apart from the general population – irrespective of where some 'accident of birth' has us being born in the world. Our actual strength is our diversity – globally and in which aspects of fishing we partake.
Whether Owner are just another recent company to transfer their main manufacturing base to China, and then maintain their quality in the world market – or not?? Time will tell, whether we see a repeat of the Mustad story – we will see. Like all these situations, it is mostly based on the levels of quality control that the parent company takes across to their new factory, and how they maintain that element.
Perhaps a solution might be to test some older models (Made in Japan) against some of their recent products (Made in China), and see whether we have to be concerned about a drop in quality.
There are good and bad everywhere, and we should avoid generalisations, as they defy logical and intelligent thinking – which is what this group has excelled at in all the time I have been a member, and long may it continue.
Cheers from sunny Africa
Jeri
I find this to be a valid debate and hope that all parties can listen without taking offence. We are all in the position of having a choice of where we purchase goods. There is good and bad out there and this is the sort of place where we learn and listen to others experience and make our own choices accordingly. My personal opinion on the subject of goods produced In the PRC or Taiwan is that the best and worst is produced there its up to us to to find out the difference.
just my two cents
Jon
Will try and sort some pics out. I do intend to contact Owner on the issue but work keeps getting in the way.
Brians point,
"Are the hooks authentic or counterfeit?"
I import material from all over the world and I can tell you from personal experience that counterfeit products make it here all the time.
Most buyers are sitting behind a CRT and never have had nor will they ever have a personal relationship with the people they are buying from overseas.
They see a lower price than they are paying and jump at saving a dime.
One of the biggest sporting goods companies in the US got stung last year on branded baseball gear, they lost over $300,000 in product to the US customs office. The product was on the shelf being sold at a retail store and one of the real products field reps noticed it.
Good luck getting a refund on those shipments!