I own 2 Black 113's that I want to upgrade to trolling reels. The 2:1 is just too slow for bottom fishing, but should make a decent trolling setup for the Gulf of Mexico. I can't find the 98-60AT ss gear sleeves, both Dawn and Scott's are out of stock. Any other sources?
I'm not quite ready to jump into narrowing up these reels with a LB 66 spool conversion. I just want the +1 ht-100 stack and a stronger gear sleeve for now. And maybe a handle upgrade.
Couple of other questions for you gurus:
1) Anything else I should do to these 113's to get to 15-18#'s max drag?
2) How do you guys keep track of what mods you've done to what reels? I own 7-8 Senators and 4-5 other Penns, some of them are currently identical, like the 2 black 113's.
Mike
You may want to try Handi. I am also out and waiting for the new shipment from Alan, whom is also out.
Mike I have them but forgot to let you know. Ill contact in the am. I just came up from reel work and I'm wooped...
Quote from: handi2 on December 05, 2014, 01:23:51 AM
Mike I have them but forgot to let you know. Ill contact in the am. I just came up from reel work and I'm wooped...
Hmmmm. I just bought 2 98-155 stainless sleeves since the 98-60AT was unavailable.
Maybe I should get two of 98-60AT sleeves too?
I really like speeding these reels up with 66 gears, make sure you are using a steel main gear with that high drag and I also recommend one of Lee's stainless dogs. Even though you are not planning on casting this reel the aluminum spools seem to make the whole package nicer. Last thing I'd do is get a big star on the reel if it isn't on there already.
Ron
Quote from: noyb72 on December 05, 2014, 02:32:55 AM
I really like speeding these reels up with 66 gears, make sure you are using a steel main gear with that high drag and I also recommend one of Lee's stainless dogs. Even though you are not planning on casting this reel the aluminum spools seem to make the whole package nicer. Last thing I'd do is get a big star on the reel if it isn't on there already.
Ron
Ron, you must be thinking of something else, the 113 does come with the 5-66 gear.
Quote from: Wally15 on December 04, 2014, 12:49:40 PM
I own 2 Black 113's that I want to upgrade to trolling reels. The 2:1 is just too slow for bottom fishing, but should make a decent trolling setup for the Gulf of Mexico. I can't find the 98-60AT ss gear sleeves, both Dawn and Scott's are out of stock. Any other sources?
I'm not quite ready to jump into narrowing up these reels with a LB 66 spool conversion. I just want the +1 ht-100 stack and a stronger gear sleeve for now. And maybe a handle upgrade.
Couple of other questions for you gurus:
1) Anything else I should do to these 113's to get to 15-18#'s max drag?
2) How do you guys keep track of what mods you've done to what reels? I own 7-8 Senators and 4-5 other Penns, some of them are currently identical, like the 2 black 113's.
Mike
Mike, if you want to speed it up a bit check here:
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=9979.msg93421#msg93421
The new combination with the 5-149 and 13-113H is actually smoother than the stock. I understand you're not ready for the narrow, but you could do this to the standard 113 as well.
Sal
i'm supposed to have the first shipment of 98-60 and 98-505 gear sleeves tomorrow.
Quote from: Alto Mare on December 05, 2014, 03:16:52 AM
Quote from: noyb72 on December 05, 2014, 02:32:55 AM
I really like speeding these reels up with 66 gears, make sure you are using a steel main gear with that high drag and I also recommend one of Lee's stainless dogs. Even though you are not planning on casting this reel the aluminum spools seem to make the whole package nicer. Last thing I'd do is get a big star on the reel if it isn't on there already.
Ron
Ron, you must be thinking of something else, the 113 does come with the 5-66 gear.Quote from: Wally15 on December 04, 2014, 12:49:40 PM
I own 2 Black 113's that I want to upgrade to trolling reels. The 2:1 is just too slow for bottom fishing, but should make a decent trolling setup for the Gulf of Mexico. I can't find the 98-60AT ss gear sleeves, both Dawn and Scott's are out of stock. Any other sources?
I'm not quite ready to jump into narrowing up these reels with a LB 66 spool conversion. I just want the +1 ht-100 stack and a stronger gear sleeve for now. And maybe a handle upgrade.
Couple of other questions for you gurus:
1) Anything else I should do to these 113's to get to 15-18#'s max drag?
2) How do you guys keep track of what mods you've done to what reels? I own 7-8 Senators and 4-5 other Penns, some of them are currently identical, like the 2 black 113's.
Mike
Mike, if you want to speed it up a bit check here:
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=9979.msg93421#msg93421
The new combination with the 5-149 and 13-113H is actually smoother than the stock. I understand you're not ready for the narrow, but you could do this to the standard 113 as well.
Sal
Never seen that thread till now Sal!! What a beautiful reel!! I have been thinking about that for awhile! Seeing it is beautiful! Don't have the tools for that spool mod but nice work!
Quote from: alantani on December 05, 2014, 03:37:43 AM
i'm supposed to have the first shipment of 98-60 and 98-505 gear sleeves tomorrow.
Great to hear Alan! I have a couple projects in the works!
Mike, if you want to speed it up a bit check here:
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=9979.msg93421#msg93421
The new combination with the 5-149 and 13-113H is actually smoother than the stock. I understand you're not ready for the narrow, but you could do this to the standard 113 as well.
Sal
You guys forget I'm a novice at this upgrade business!
Sal, I read your "Grouper Special" link (all 5 pages) and got more confused than ever. You guys toss out more numbers than an Air Traffic Controller ;D
SBT has the 5-149 for $10. Looks like it has 36 teeth in the Scott's pic. I thought the 13-113H pinion had 16 teeth :-\. That would be a 2.25:1 ratio. Since I don't have a spare 113H pinion, that's another $9.65. Is it even worth it to go from 2:1 to 2.25:1?
I do have a spare steel gear and pinion from an LB 60. That's 40 and 17 teeth for a 2:35 ratio. But I'll bet you guru's will tell me it won't fit.
I haven't opened the 113's yet, so I don't know what shape everything is in. If it looks OK (and steel gears), I think I'll stick to just the 5+1 and the ss 98-60 mods for now. Once I get some successful upgrades under my belt (and more knowledge), I'll start expanding my horizons.
But thanks for the great suggestions. Just wish I currently had the skillset to pull it off.
Mike
Quote from: alantani on December 05, 2014, 03:37:43 AM
i'm supposed to have the first shipment of 98-60 and 98-505 gear sleeves tomorrow.
Just in time.
Quote from: Wally15 on December 05, 2014, 04:28:44 AM
Mike, if you want to speed it up a bit check here:
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=9979.msg93421#msg93421
The new combination with the 5-149 and 13-113H is actually smoother than the stock. I understand you're not ready for the narrow, but you could do this to the standard 113 as well.
Sal
You guys forget I'm a novice at this upgrade business!
Sal, I read your "Grouper Special" link (all 5 pages) and got more confused than ever. You guys toss out more numbers than an Air Traffic Controller ;D
SBT has the 5-149 for $10. Looks like it has 36 teeth in the Scott's pic. I thought the 13-113H pinion had 16 teeth :-\. That would be a 2.25:1 ratio. Since I don't have a spare 113H pinion, that's another $9.65. Is it even worth it to go from 2:1 to 2.25:1?
I do have a spare steel gear and pinion from an LB 60. That's 40 and 17 teeth for a 2:35 ratio. But I'll bet you guru's will tell me it won't fit.
I haven't opened the 113's yet, so I don't know what shape everything is in. If it looks OK (and steel gears), I think I'll stick to just the 5+1 and the ss 98-60 mods for now. Once I get some successful upgrades under my belt (and more knowledge), I'll start expanding my horizons.
But thanks for the great suggestions. Just wish I currently had the skillset to pull it off.
Mike
Sorry Mike, at times I forget about the new guys. This posting on the upgrade was directed more towards guys that have been screwing up reels along with me ;D, but at times we get it right ;).
Unless I'm looking at it wrong, the stock 5-66 main gear in the 113 has 32 teeth and the 13-113 pinion has 16, giving it a 2:1 ratio.
The upgraded 5-149 main gear has 34 teeth and the 13-113H pinion has 13, giving it a 2.6+:1 ratio.
Sal
Quote from: Alto Mare on December 05, 2014, 10:18:39 AMSorry Mike, at times I forget about the new guys. This posting on the upgrade was directed more towards guys that have been screwing up reels along with me ;D, but at times we get it right ;).
Unless I'm looking at it wrong, the stock 5-66 main gear in the 113 has 32 teeth and the 13-113 pinion has 16, giving it a 2:1 ratio.
The upgraded 5-149 main gear has 34 teeth and the 13-113H pinion has 13, giving it a 2.6+:1 ratio.
Sal
No problemo. I like having my "comfort zone" pushed. That's how we learn. Sort of Cal's grease for the synapses :)
The 5-149 shown in SBT is probably a generic pic of a gear. 2.6:1 would get me halfway to a 113H ratio. That might be worth spending an extra $25 or so per reel. Plus the comfort of knowing it's new.
"Ratio-wise", since it's halfway to an H (3.25?), I think I'll call it a D model Grouper Special :). Over the years I helped upgrade a lot of D model Huey helicopters to the H model. Kind of neat to reverse the process with a fishing reel.
Think I'll go for the 2:6:1 while I'm doing the drag and gear sleeve. Remember my post from a few days ago, "You guys are costing me money" ? :'(
Two other questions:
1 - no one even attempted to answer my last question in the original post:
"How do you guys keep track of which reel has what mods"?
2 - How do you guys "cut and paste" for quotes so you end up with nice and neat blue boxes in your post. I cannot figure that out.
Mike
Quote from: Alto Mare on December 05, 2014, 10:18:39 AMUnless I'm looking at it wrong, the stock 5-66 main gear in the 113 has 32 teeth and the 13-113 pinion has 16, giving it a 2:1 ratio.
The upgraded 5-149 main gear has 34 teeth and the 13-113H pinion has 13, giving it a 2.6+:1 ratio.
Sal
This works well.
Quote from: Wally15 on December 05, 2014, 12:57:12 PM
Two other questions:
1 - no one even attempted to answer my last question in the original post:
"How do you guys keep track of which reel has what mods"?
2 - How do you guys "cut and paste" for quotes so you end up with nice and neat blue boxes in your post. I cannot figure that out.
Mike
#1 Mark the reel seat.
#2 Use the "quote" button upper right. I hope you don't mind me "fixing" your post for you....the hard way ;D
I too lose track on which reels have the SS gears and such. I have to take a quick look..
Mike, if you want to speed it up a bit check here:
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=9979.msg93421#msg93421
The new combination with the 5-149 and 13-113H is actually smoother than the stock. I understand you're not ready for the narrow, but you could do this to the standard 113 as well.
Sal
Scott's would only sell me one 5-149 gear. I did get 2 113H pinions. I checked a couple of other places and they were OOS.
Any other sources to pick up the 2nd 5-149 gear?
Mike
Unless I'm looking at it wrong, the stock 5-66 main gear in the 113 has 32 teeth and the 13-113 pinion has 16, giving it a 2:1 ratio.
The upgraded 5-149 main gear has 34 teeth and the 13-113H pinion has 13, giving it a 2.6+:1 ratio.
Sal
Hi Sal, do you remember about a year ago I set it up with a 13-49 pinion & 5-66 main gear which will take a 5+1 drag set of 6-60? RUDY
Quote from: RowdyW on December 05, 2014, 08:03:16 PM
Unless I'm looking at it wrong, the stock 5-66 main gear in the 113 has 32 teeth and the 13-113 pinion has 16, giving it a 2:1 ratio.
The upgraded 5-149 main gear has 34 teeth and the 13-113H pinion has 13, giving it a 2.6+:1 ratio.
Sal
Hi Sal, do you remember about a year ago I set it up with a 13-49 pinion & 5-66 main gear which will take a 5+1 drag set of 6-60? RUDY
Rudy, you only changed the pinion, I might be wrong but I don't believe that changed anything. How many teeth are there on the 13-49?
13
Ok, you've increased the ratio to 2.4:1, that isn't bad, but 2.6:1 is better. We could also get the 5 washers in the 149 main gear. How smooth does yours feel? mine is silky smooth. I guess it comes down to how much speed you're looking for, both are a good upgrade, but yours doesn't need any grinding on the plate.
And no special metal drag washers. RUDY
Just wondering if this would work for the 111 senator a little more speed would be nice Doug
Quote from: Alto Mare on December 05, 2014, 08:32:11 PM
Ok, you've increased the ratio to 2.4:1, that isn't bad, but 2.6:1 is better. We could also get the 5 washers in the 149 main gear. How smooth does yours feel? mine is silky smooth. I guess it comes down to how much speed you're looking for, both are a good upgrade, but yours doesn't need any grinding on the plate.
While discussing mxing gears and getting different ratios for the 113 reel, is there anyone who have tried to make 112 reel with higher ratio than the stock 2.25:1?
The 112H is 4:1, but that isn't possible inside the side plate. 3:1 would be nice. A 112h (small h) version? :-)
Quote from: RowdyW on December 05, 2014, 08:34:12 PM
And no special metal drag washers. RUDY
Rudy, you did good, but to me the using the 149 gear is a better choice. Take a look at 5-149 and the 5-66, you will notice that the 149 is beefier.
Quote from: RowdyW on December 05, 2014, 08:34:12 PM
And no special metal drag washers. RUDY
Special metal washers isn't that big of problem, especially if I catch the cutter when he's not swamped.
Sal, I originally did it to improve on the ratio using easily obtained penn parts & upgrade the drags a little. If I need more drag I just wet a line with one of my 113h's. I have lots of choices in reel sizes, from 1/0 to 12/0. If I need anything bigger then a 4/0 I'll have to use a bent butt rod or get in THE chair & they had better strap my shoulders & butt down. I've got the weight but at 75 I just can't pull as hard as I use to. ;D ;D ;D My theory is BIG BAIT, BIG FISH, BIG REEL, BIG ROD. Stay Cool, RUDY 8)
Quote from: trond_solem on December 05, 2014, 09:13:28 PM
Quote from: Alto Mare on December 05, 2014, 08:32:11 PM
Ok, you've increased the ratio to 2.4:1, that isn't bad, but 2.6:1 is better. We could also get the 5 washers in the 149 main gear. How smooth does yours feel? mine is silky smooth. I guess it comes down to how much speed you're looking for, both are a good upgrade, but yours doesn't need any grinding on the plate.
While discussing mxing gears and getting different ratios for the 113 reel, is there anyone who have tried to make 112 reel with higher ratio than the stock 2.25:1?
The 112H is 4:1, but that isn't possible inside the side plate. 3:1 would be nice. A 112h (small h) version? :-)
The black 112 is the same ratio as the longbeach 66-67&68 which is 2.4:1 using the same gears. RUDY
Quote from: Alto Mare on December 05, 2014, 08:32:11 PM
Ok, you've increased the ratio to 2.4:1, that isn't bad, but 2.6:1 is better. We could also get the 5 washers in the 149 main gear. How smooth does yours feel? mine is silky smooth. I guess it comes down to how much speed you're looking for, both are a good upgrade, but yours doesn't need any grinding on the plate.
It might be a better solution for Wally as he didn't feel comfortable grinding the plate.
Quote from: RowdyW on December 06, 2014, 01:20:08 AM
Quote from: trond_solem on December 05, 2014, 09:13:28 PM
Quote from: Alto Mare on December 05, 2014, 08:32:11 PM
Ok, you've increased the ratio to 2.4:1, that isn't bad, but 2.6:1 is better. We could also get the 5 washers in the 149 main gear. How smooth does yours feel? mine is silky smooth. I guess it comes down to how much speed you're looking for, both are a good upgrade, but yours doesn't need any grinding on the plate.
While discussing mxing gears and getting different ratios for the 113 reel, is there anyone who have tried to make 112 reel with higher ratio than the stock 2.25:1?
The 112H is 4:1, but that isn't possible inside the side plate. 3:1 would be nice. A 112h (small h) version? :-)
The black 112 is the same ratio as the longbeach 66-67&68 which is 2.4:1 using the same gears. RUDY
You are right about that, but the reel specs at mysticparts says 2.25:1 for the 112 and 2.5:1 for the 66 reel. How they manage to get different ratios with the same gear set is far beyond my imagination. :-) :-)
The other possibillity is that the reel specs are incorrect.
I suppose there are no possibility to reach 3:1 for the 112 then.
"Edited as per Moderators to correct Scott's Bait & Tackle over to their new store name Mystic Reel Parts / www.mysticparts.com"
Wow, I've been gone for a bit and everything blows up.
I've done the 66 bridge and pinion on a bunch of 113s. Yes, 2.6 does split the difference between 2.0 and 3.2 but a 66 is a whole lot easier to find and you get a spool if you want to narrow a Senator. On top of that Bryan makes a 7+1 kit.
In all honesty I have kinda decided that the 66 is a better reel to do on the cheap because a Newell base can be found for WAY cheaper than a Tib or old Accurate etc. frame. I'm also pretty sure that the 112H bars will fit and then you have an open top Grouper Special with what has to be 30# of drag and about a zillion handle options.
Like it is said on here often, there is more than one way to skin this cat.
Ron
Hi Ron, I don't think a Newell set up is any cheaper then a Tib or Acc frame. Your buying the Newell base, clamp,spacers, etc, & by the time you are done a used Tib or ACC frame is the same price. I've got four of them & they were all under $55.00. Two of them are Tib frames that are topless. Just got to wait for the right deals. And I know that those frames are much stronger then a Newell setup, especially if you are building it with no top bar. RUDY ps Have you seen the prices lately for Newell parts. People must think they are made of gold.
Newell gear is the same as old car gear. If you buy the whole reel you can get the parts cheap. I recently bought 2 YTS and an albacore special and a 501 w/ full Newell kits for $120.oo OTD. I'm certain the one piece frames are stronger than a Newell but I've NEVER heard of a Newell kit failing and so I'm good with them being strong and rigid enough.
Ron