I think it's the washers inside the gear causing this problem I take good care of my equipment clean fresh water wash down and air compressor blow off after each trip.did not see this on the other tank
Hi, it looks like water is entering through the space between the plate & spacer sleeve. Probably from the pressure from a water hose or the air pressure. Try using a heavier coat of marine grease or drag grease on the gear sleeve. All metals will corrode when subjected to moisture & air if not protected from the elements. Just take it easy around reel openings with air & water pressure (spool edges & ends of side plates). I dry my reels with a chamois. RUDY
I think Rudy is onto something there Jamie. The compressor is blowing the water in.
Not saying this is the problem -- but it is a likely culprit -- water intrusion, as stated above.
What works for me is:
Any possible entry for salt water -- gets extra MARINE GREASE -- this includes gear sleeves, spacers, spool edges, eccentric opening, etc.. This helps a lot, and the Marine Grease resists salt water -- and stays consistently smooth without breaking down.
Plus for easy breakdowns -- all screw threads, inside of rings, stand clamps, threaded bearings and bushing caps, inside of both sideplates, and all interior metal surfaces get a light coat.
A liberal coating of Cal's or Shimano Drag grease will take care of the drag stack -- and help prevent rust issues.
After fishing the salt -- just rinse off the reel with no additional water pressure -- just let the fresh water flow gently over the reel from the spool and left side -- not getting aggressive or forcing any water into the right head side, if possible.
When back to home, I break down the reel to inspect the interior -- not completely -- just the head side and spool ends. Re-grease and oil -- store in a cloth bag when done.
Now, some of you may laugh at this -- but an air compressor generally does more damage than good, IMO. It forces moisture into the case of the reel. I use an old diffuser type hair dryer set on low power -- it works well when needed, and dries out most moisture when in a hurry. The indirect air flow works great in a pinch back at the dock or hotel room.
Best,
Fred
(http://i748.photobucket.com/albums/xx130/foakes1/DEAB387C-FB8C-457C-8B7B-27A3B5A2977A_zpscfzzhaxt.jpg) (http://s748.photobucket.com/user/foakes1/media/DEAB387C-FB8C-457C-8B7B-27A3B5A2977A_zpscfzzhaxt.jpg.html)
Quote from: foakes on January 12, 2015, 07:57:07 PM
Not saying this is the problem -- but it is a likely culprit -- water intrusion, as stated above.
What works for me is:
Any possible entry for salt water -- gets extra MARINE GREASE -- this includes gear sleeves, spacers, spool edges, eccentric opening, etc.. This helps a lot, and the Marine Grease resists salt water -- and stays consistently smooth without breaking down.
Plus for easy breakdowns -- all screw threads, inside of rings, stand clamps, threaded bearings and bushing caps, inside of both sideplates, and all interior metal surfaces get a light coat.
A liberal coating of Cal's or Shimano Drag grease will take care of the drag stack -- and help prevent rust issues.
After fishing the salt -- just rinse off the reel with no additional water pressure -- just let the fresh water flow gently over the reel from the spool and left side -- not getting aggressive or forcing any water into the right head side, if possible.
When back to home, I break down the reel to inspect the interior -- not completely -- just the head side and spool ends. Re-grease and oil -- store in a cloth bag when done.
Now, some of you may laugh at this -- but an air compressor generally does more damage than good, IMO. It forces moisture into the case of the reel. I use an old diffuser type hair dryer set on low power -- it works well when needed, and dries out most moisture when in a hurry. The indirect air flow works great in a pinch back at the dock or hotel room.
Best,
Fred
The compressor will blow the grease off the coated surfaces. It won't blow off the dried salt layer on the surface of the metal.
My fly reels take quite a beating in the summer. They get visibly caked with salt. I actually give these reels a short soak in a bucket of fresh water every week or so. Let them drain and then air dry. Lube the bearings every year or two. Fresh water is a great solvent for salt. If the bearings are lubed and the carbon fiber or cork drag washers are greased- fresh water shouldn't damage saltwater reel parts (excluding AR bearings), but salt will. We all soak our 18-8 stainless silverware in fresh water every day.
I thought the Newell manual recommended soaking the reels in fresh water. Is this right? Does anybody else soak their salt water reels in fresh water?
-J.
I agree with Fred. I just do a freshwater rinse of the reel with little to no pressure. Then towel or sun dry the outside of the reel. With normal servicing of the reel, I have been fortunate to not have internal corrosion problems.
TomT
I have not used a hair dryer for drying but can see how that would be effective.
i run star drag reels with a little extra drag grease. :-\
After a day on the beach with my Senators. I put them in the shower. If there is an outside shower handy, that is perfect. Give them a good bath. Not too powerful and then just blot them dry with a towel.
I do the rod too, people don't realize how corrosive the ocean can be.
I do this every day religiously. When I return home from my trip, I clean my rods really well with a wash rag and some light detergent. Then apply pledge furniture polish to the rod and guides. If the rod is a roller. then its a complete dismantle and oiling with reel x to the rollers.
The reels get a teardown and inspection. I work too hard to make sure my reels are just right to neglect them. I look at it as protecting my investment. ;)
I might smell like fish and beer, but my gear is clean! ;D
I shower with my fishing reels and rods. Warm water dissolves salt better than cold water. Spray with shower head then let my water splash as I shower. Then re rinse and shake excess water out of the reel and let dry on counter. Yes I do get the evil eye from my wife...but not as bad as cleaning reel parts in the dishwasher. Lol
You are a man of many talents Bry! ;)
When I lived in an apartment, all my rods and reels went into the swimming pool to soak. Never had a spot of corrosion in many years and I fished several days a week. Now I have a house (no pool) I use a shower or garden hose. I don't think it does as good a job bur still no corrosion, just harder to do.
Alan is right about the drag grease on Star Drags -- more is better. And it never hurts to slop it on -- since the excess is forced out when compressing the drag stack -- and just the right amount is left.
Carl Newell quotes:
Saltwater Fisherman after each trip should submerse reel in Fresh Water. Star drag should be tightened before submersing. Soak for 15 minutes, back off the star drag, shake and wipe off with cloth. Place reel in sunny or warm room to allow reel and line to dry.
When rinsing any star drag reel with fresh water -- the drag stack should be tightened down -- then backed off to dry.
Newell reels are nearly entirely SS in and out -- with thermoplastic sideplates reinforced with Carbon and Glass Fiber. The old Newell drags were the red marbled thin smoothies with SS discs -- no CFs. But even with all SS -- your reel must be serviced regularly, and cared for. Even high quality SS just means the reel will rust slower if not attended to properly.
Best,
Fred
Ok guys this reel was greased with cals only.I was running out out of peen grease so I used Cals only. going to get some yamaha grease today.
Were the metal drag washers brass?
Quote from: broschro on January 13, 2015, 11:45:16 AM
Ok guys this reel was greased with cals only.I was running out out of peen grease so I used Cals only. going to get some yamaha grease today.
Amazon has a good deel on yahama grease. I got 3x 14oz for $23 shipped
Quote from: Keta on January 13, 2015, 12:42:22 PM
Were the metal drag washers brass?
No Lee they were SS
It's odd to see that kind of "corrosion" when using similar materials. It could possibly be the chromed brass parts (spacer?) in the stack.
I don't see anything wrong with using that sleeve, just clean it and put it back in. I'm with others, using compressed air is helping it corrode.
I've removed Newell ss gears in the past using a hummer and chisel, ss will do that if not using proper routine maintenance.
don't toss that sleeve out, if you need to, just send it over to me.
Sal
I think I just did not have enough grease on it and I used Cals only and a light coat. definitely going to reuse it Sal, With a bunch of blue grease on it :)
Yamaha grease isn't drag grease.
A good coat of marine grease will work fine. It won't contaminate the drag washers. I've been doing it for years & haven't had any problems.
Lee just on the gears and sleeve.Cals on the CF.
I just use Cals on everything and have had zero issues at all. My logic is so I don't have to worry about mixing greases and if any gets on the drag stack I'm still good.
A little pricier but they stay corrosion free. It's all about what you do after your trip in the salt, that's the secret. ;)
Take a 2000 sand paper to that sleeve (gently) and you're good to go. I use the 2000 or 3000 on my spool spindles to make them buttery smooth.
Dom
I recently serviced a set of 4 Tiagra 130s and used Cal's throughout. Hopefully I will get them back after a year of use and see how its holding up verses my nornal routine of cals and penn blue.
Getting back to the original question:
(disclaimer- I am not an expert on this stuff- just did some reading up for making some carbon fiber parts)
Carbon fiber can cause significant galvanic corrosion on stainless when exposed to saltwater. Graphite (pure carbon) is at the very (cathodic) end of the galvanic series tables- past titanium and gold. Manufacturers of aircraft and bicycle parts use titanium for fasteners on carbon fiber parts, or introduce a barrier when using stainless or aluminum with carbon fiber. When exposed to oxygen, stainless will form a a very thin layer (of chromium?) that passivises the surface (making it more cathodic). Once this layer is penetrated the area of corrosion becomes "active" which leads to further localized corrosion - or as one source described it, -"like a squirrel chewed on it" :)
So my updated vote on what happened:
1. The compressed air drove the grease out of the gear sleeve/drag washer junction
2 The sides of the carbon fiber washers are the most conductive zone on the washer ( the fibers are like little conductive wires).
3. With no protective barrier -any introduction of salt water would start the corrosion process where the tips of the carbon fiber threads came into contact with the gear sleeve, with the corrosion spreading locally.
4. Wherever the corrosion starts- the passivisation is lost- the corrosion is concentrated- leading to the "squirrel chew" effect.
Which leads to three more observations:
1. This is another argument for lubing the drag washers (AKA wet drag stacks) The lubricant acts a a barrier against galvanic corrosion.
2. Perhaps an explanation as to why titanium is often used for those big lever drag surfaces (carbon and titanium are reasonably compatible)- BTW carbon fiber against aluminum without a barrier is highly conductive- not something I would want in any saltwater reel that I would own.
3. Salt water makes a great electrolyte solution, fresh water makes a poor one. Without an electrolyte- you will not get galvanic corrosion. Fresh water is a great solvent for salt. By introducing a large amount o fresh water to a small amount of salt water- you effectively get rid of the salt. Carl Newell was right - soak in fresh water and dry. I am still looking for some arguments as to why a soak/dry would be worse than the superficial freshwater spray.
Also avoids that awkward conversation with the spouse about why you like to take showers with your reels :)
-J.
makes perfect sense 8)
Good Stuff jurelometer! ;)
My reels and I shower separately. ;D
Jurelometer, great post. I would like to add that stainless steel is subject to " crevice corrosion." It tends to corrode in crevices. The anaerobic environment there does not allow oxygen to form the oxide layer back when it has been compromised. This leads to corrosion and pitting and sometimes failure of the fastener etc. People are often surprised to find the failure was on a portion of the stainless that was imbeded in an object. The part that was most exsposed to the environment often looks very good. Bob
Quote from: Cone on January 17, 2015, 03:44:01 AM
Jurelometer, great post. I would like to add that stainless steel is subject to " crevice corrosion." It tends to corrode in crevices. The anaerobic environment there does not allow oxygen to form the oxide layer back when it has been compromised. This leads to corrosion and pitting and sometimes failure of the fastener etc. People are often surprised to find the failure was on a portion of the stainless that was imbeded in an object. The part that was most exsposed to the environment often looks very good. Bob
Thats a good point, and its very common on 304 stainless exposed to a salt or chlorine environment. 316 stainless is more resistant to salt and chlorine environments, but by its very name, stainless steel "stains less" than carbon steel in harsh environments. You have to look to exotic materials to get completely inert.
Quote from: broschro on January 12, 2015, 05:12:06 PM
I think it's the washers inside the gear causing this problem I take good care of my equipment clean fresh water wash down and air compressor blow off after each trip.did not see this on the other tank
guess i missed this. were the drags greased?
Quote from: alantani on January 17, 2015, 04:51:32 AM
Quote from: broschro on January 12, 2015, 05:12:06 PM
I think it's the washers inside the gear causing this problem I take good care of my equipment clean fresh water wash down and air compressor blow off after each trip.did not see this on the other tank
guess i missed this. were the drags greased?
Greased with Cals -we are speculating that the compressed air blew the grease off the gear sleeve.
Quote from: jurelometer on January 17, 2015, 04:57:15 AM
Quote from: alantani on January 17, 2015, 04:51:32 AM
Quote from: broschro on January 12, 2015, 05:12:06 PM
I think it's the washers inside the gear causing this problem I take good care of my equipment clean fresh water wash down and air compressor blow off after each trip.did not see this on the other tank
guess i missed this. were the drags greased?
Greased with Cals -we are speculating that the compressed air blew the grease off the gear sleeve.
was i just surface corrosion?
Quote from: alantani on January 17, 2015, 05:10:41 AM
Quote from: jurelometer on January 17, 2015, 04:57:15 AM
Quote from: alantani on January 17, 2015, 04:51:32 AM
Quote from: broschro on January 12, 2015, 05:12:06 PM
I think it's the washers inside the gear causing this problem I take good care of my equipment clean fresh water wash down and air compressor blow off after each trip.did not see this on the other tank
guess i missed this. were the drags greased?
Greased with Cals -we are speculating that the compressed air blew the grease off the gear sleeve.
was i just surface corrosion?
Judging from the photo- more like a squirrel chewed on it. I read that this is what happens with galvanic corrosion on stainless- the corrosion digs in on the small areas where the passivisation is lost. lots of stainless on stainless scraping with the drag washers and all. Since the oxide layer is crazy-thin on stainless, grease would seem to be a must in this environment. Then life is good :)
Quote from: alantani on January 17, 2015, 05:10:41 AM
Quote from: jurelometer on January 17, 2015, 04:57:15 AM
Quote from: alantani on January 17, 2015, 04:51:32 AM
Quote from: broschro on January 12, 2015, 05:12:06 PM
I think it's the washers inside the gear causing this problem I take good care of my equipment clean fresh water wash down and air compressor blow off after each trip.did not see this on the other tank
guess i missed this. were the drags greased?
Greased with Cals -we are speculating that the compressed air blew the grease off the gear sleeve.
was i just surface corrosion?
it was eaten up pretty good,