Reel Repair by Alan Tani

Conventional and Bait Casting Reel Rebuild Tutorials and Questions => Penn Senator Tutorials and Questions => Topic started by: Tightlines667 on February 01, 2015, 06:01:38 AM

Title: 14/0 Beat Up N Broken Down....But Not Out Of It Yet
Post by: Tightlines667 on February 01, 2015, 06:01:38 AM
I just cracked this 14/0 open and thought I'd share my findings....

Just about all of the head plate internals were frozen to the spool.

Just placed an order for $240 in parts including:
New drag stack, handle, gear set (SS), bridge and sleeve, jack, yoke, bearings, clicker ring, braces, clamp and a few screws.  At least the spool wasn't warped, and no cracked rings.  She will live to fight again.
Title: Re: 14/0 Beat Up N Broken Down....But Not Out Of It Yet
Post by: Bryan Young on February 01, 2015, 07:21:26 AM
Whoa, surprise!
Title: Re: 14/0 Beat Up N Broken Down....But Not Out Of It Yet
Post by: Tightlines667 on February 01, 2015, 07:44:12 AM
Customer actuslly caught a 60lb Ono (Wahoo) on it last week.  He was wondering why it felt a bit 'rough' and wouldn't shift out of gear. 

Theres your problem right there.
Title: Re: 14/0 Beat Up N Broken Down....But Not Out Of It Yet
Post by: Alto Mare on February 01, 2015, 01:30:57 PM
Tells you a lot about these reels, still able to bring in the fish, considering its condition.
It appears that reel was never opened from the first day he got it ;D.
John, where are you getting the ss gear set from? The pinion I know about, but not the main gear.
Title: Re: 14/0 Beat Up N Broken Down....But Not Out Of It Yet
Post by: BMITCH on February 01, 2015, 02:06:12 PM
Alls I got is...WOW!!!
Title: Re: 14/0 Beat Up N Broken Down....But Not Out Of It Yet
Post by: Shark Hunter on February 01, 2015, 07:28:29 PM
Well,
Maybe after shelling out the cash for the repairs, he will take better care of her from now on!
I tear mine down after every trip. ;)
Title: Re: 14/0 Beat Up N Broken Down....But Not Out Of It Yet
Post by: redsetta on February 01, 2015, 07:49:26 PM
QuoteTells you a lot about these reels, still able to bring in the fish...
x2
Title: Re: 14/0 Beat Up N Broken Down....But Not Out Of It Yet
Post by: Tightlines667 on February 01, 2015, 07:58:39 PM
Quote from: Alto Mare on February 01, 2015, 01:30:57 PM
John, where are you getting the ss gear set from? The pinion I know about, but not the main gear.

I ordered the gear set from Scott's.  It states that the older  main has been replaced by a newer stainless steel gear.  This is news to me as well.  We will see once the set arrives, if it is actually stainless
Title: Re: 14/0 Beat Up N Broken Down....But Not Out Of It Yet
Post by: Shark Hunter on February 01, 2015, 08:10:35 PM
Let me know John. It has that stainless sheen to it.
Title: Re: 14/0 Beat Up N Broken Down....But Not Out Of It Yet
Post by: CapeFish on February 02, 2015, 07:03:55 AM
How much does a new reel cost?
Title: Re: 14/0 Beat Up N Broken Down....But Not Out Of It Yet
Post by: Tightlines667 on February 02, 2015, 07:18:13 AM
The new Chinese made 117L s sell for about $500.  Used 14/0s w/the high capacity spools can be had for $300-$400.  Figure customer has a reel worth $75-$100 as is.  With new parts and service he will be into it for $315-$335 .  Right at the cusp of being worth it to fix.  Having said that, this 20+ year old reel will fish for many more years.  Alternatively, if he scraps the reel (I offered him $100 for it) and buys a used 14/0 for $300, it will likely cost him around $100-$125 to upgrade drag stack, bearings and service, so hes into it for $425-$100 trade in value =$325...about the same.  So, seems to me that servicing his old reel will be a better deal for him since his reel will have many more new parts.  True, he could spend about $200 more for a brand new chinese made 14/0, but do that twice and now you've got 4 working reels instead of 2.  I think it makes sense to bring these old girls back from the dead, and I know they will continue to perform.
Title: Re: 14/0 Beat Up N Broken Down....But Not Out Of It Yet
Post by: BMITCH on February 02, 2015, 12:32:29 PM
I can't see why the old gears can't be saved ::) a little elbow grease and some polishing compound ;D
Title: Re: 14/0 Beat Up N Broken Down....But Not Out Of It Yet
Post by: Tightlines667 on February 06, 2015, 03:49:30 AM
My parts arrived today. 

Daron the main gear appears to be stainless steel.  Appears to be the same material as the pinion.
Title: Re: 14/0 Beat Up N Broken Down....But Not Out Of It Yet
Post by: crackerman on February 06, 2015, 04:18:53 AM
I looked at scotts bt. It says all 117 gears are stainless now. I wish someone would say that a about the 116L...
Title: Re: 14/0 Beat Up N Broken Down....But Not Out Of It Yet
Post by: Shark Hunter on February 06, 2015, 04:32:58 AM
Well Crap! Now I gotta get some! ;D Thanks John. It looks like that gear is milled to the bottom for the eared washers. That's a good thing.
Cracker, the steel ones for the 116L are tough as nails!
Title: Re: 14/0 Beat Up N Broken Down....But Not Out Of It Yet
Post by: crackerman on February 06, 2015, 02:50:31 PM
Yeah, finding those is like finding "affordable" 16/0s though. I tried to buy a 12/0 for parts hoping it had a steel gear buy got outbid. That gets expensive though.
Title: Re: 14/0 Beat Up N Broken Down....But Not Out Of It Yet
Post by: Shark Hunter on February 06, 2015, 06:36:42 PM
These are Brand new. I've already bought two and He keeps putting them up.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/PENN-10-0-12-0-NEW-DRIVE-GEAR-PART-5-116-FITS-116A-116L-MADE-IN-USA-/121540957735?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c4c67d627
Title: Re: 14/0 Beat Up N Broken Down....But Not Out Of It Yet
Post by: Alto Mare on February 06, 2015, 08:03:45 PM
Those are nice, but I have never seen  the brass 10/0 or 16/0 fail :-\. I've seen the smaller ones, but never those.
Title: Re: 14/0 Beat Up N Broken Down....But Not Out Of It Yet
Post by: Tightlines667 on February 06, 2015, 08:23:43 PM
Quote from: Alto Mare on February 06, 2015, 08:03:45 PM
Those are nice, but I have never seen  the brass 10/0 or 16/0 fail :-\. I've seen the smaller ones, but never those.

Good point Sal.  Also Stainless on Stainless will likely feel just a bit rougher, when crsnking under load.  I have seen alot of the brass gears show heavy wear, and some damage (marring, gouging, etc.).  These stainless gears will likely be stronger and less prone to damage and wear. 

Probably the most common issue I see with the main gears on 12 and 14/0s is the center bushing getting pushed up into the gear.  It can then impeed the smooth operation of the lowest 2 washers.  I expect that issue will still persist with these gears.

Title: Re: 14/0 Beat Up N Broken Down....But Not Out Of It Yet
Post by: Shark Hunter on February 06, 2015, 09:02:01 PM
I totally agree with you Sal. The Bronze ones are mighty tough too. Its just a mental block I have. Stainless and Steel ;D
Title: Re: 14/0 Beat Up N Broken Down....But Not Out Of It Yet
Post by: Alto Mare on February 06, 2015, 09:16:06 PM
A while back, I was supposed to get a couple 5-117 stainless steel gears with the versa drag system, only a couple to be made as a thank you from Alan Chui for helping him put with some stuff we've being doing here, but never got them. He claims that I'm still getting them,  I'm not so sure :-\. Not that I don't trust him, he's a great person, I just don't think he has the time.
Title: Re: 14/0 Beat Up N Broken Down....But Not Out Of It Yet
Post by: crackerman on February 07, 2015, 12:23:28 AM
Well Daron, i took advantage of that one and bought it. As soon as i get me hands on a metal lathe, some magic may happen.
Title: Re: 14/0 Beat Up N Broken Down....But Not Out Of It Yet
Post by: Shark Hunter on February 10, 2015, 09:27:37 PM
I received the set of gears yesterday from scott's. A magnet sticks to the main, but not the pinion.
(http://i1300.photobucket.com/albums/ag93/darondyer/IMG_2812_zps8ed18a1c.jpg)
Title: Re: 14/0 Beat Up N Broken Down....But Not Out Of It Yet
Post by: Rothmar2 on February 11, 2015, 04:30:52 AM
Doesn't necessarily mean the main isn't stainless just because the magnet sticks to it.
Stainless steels have a few different factors which determine their magnetic permeability.
SS's that get cold formed can exhibit magnetic properties, while certain grades of SS are magnetic due to the alloys and the crystalline structure that results from the alloys.
It's a very complex topic, magnetism and Stainless steels.

Edit- doesn't mean it is a "stainless" (read corrosion resistant) steel either. Still give them plenty of grease anyway.
Title: Re: 14/0 Beat Up N Broken Down....But Not Out Of It Yet
Post by: Tightlines667 on February 11, 2015, 04:42:57 AM
Parts costs escallated on this build, not real surprising.  Total cost to customer (fully spooled with new line), is gonna be $434.35...ouch.  I offered to psy him to keep the rerl and take a small loss or use the parts on other builds, but he decided to keep it.  I guess when you combine this with his other 3 reels I serviced (1-14/0, 2-80SWs), he figures it all works out.

This reel ended up with a new tail plate cracked & a broken clicker, new bridge, sleeve, main, pinion, jack, yoke, bearings, drag stack, handle, rod brace, and clamp.  Gonna have to go out fishing with him just to mske sure it can handle 'the big one'.  I always encourage through field testing, following a service of this nature.

Daron,
You are right about the magnetic properties of the pinion vs  the main.  I still think it is likely stainless, but I admit I am not 100% sure.
Title: Re: 14/0 Beat Up N Broken Down....But Not Out Of It Yet
Post by: Shark Hunter on February 11, 2015, 05:28:04 AM
$434! :o
I would have sold him one of mine for $350. Just kidding. I got in a pinch a while back and tried to sell one of mine. I'm glad I didn't.
I'm sure this gear will be fine. I just know if you see something you want, you better jump on it.
I bought this set for my 16/0. If all goes well this year, I plan on spooling and fishing this Monster!