Repairing a reel for a buddy. Normal process I take it apart and then hit the schematic to compare. In doing so, I found 2 differences. Wondering if the configuration was correct or it someone had taken apart previously and rearranged some things.
Issue 1: Under the star, there was this tension spring. In the schematic, it does not exist. Should it be there?
(http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w284/Inspectojo/Penn%20LongBeach%2066/DSC_0705.jpg) (http://s179.photobucket.com/user/Inspectojo/media/Penn%20LongBeach%2066/DSC_0705.jpg.html)
Issue 2: When the drag was pulled apart it looked like this. The schematic shows drag washer/metal/drag washer/metal/drag washer/metal. Here I have Drag washer/Metal/Drag washer/Metal/Fiber washer/Metal.
Plan on replacing with HT-100. Just curious about why it is set up so different.
(http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w284/Inspectojo/Penn%20LongBeach%2066/DSC_0710.jpg) (http://s179.photobucket.com/user/Inspectojo/media/Penn%20LongBeach%2066/DSC_0710.jpg.html)
Other pictures. Looks like it spent time at the bottom of the sea.
(http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w284/Inspectojo/Penn%20LongBeach%2066/DSC_0704.jpg) (http://s179.photobucket.com/user/Inspectojo/media/Penn%20LongBeach%2066/DSC_0704.jpg.html)
(http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w284/Inspectojo/Penn%20LongBeach%2066/DSC_0709.jpg) (http://s179.photobucket.com/user/Inspectojo/media/Penn%20LongBeach%2066/DSC_0709.jpg.html)
For the tension spring under the star, you dont need it as long as you have one on top of the stack like you are showing in your second pic. Also, some of the older drag configurations had the fiber washer, just swap it out with the HT-100's and it will be working great. That reel has seen some harsh conditions, but restoring it will be a pleasure.
The tension spring washer may be above or below the spacer, or may not be needed at all. the tension spring washer helps at lower drag settings. At higher drag settings, the tension spring washer flattens out and it becomes a spacer. I like to place the tension spring washer within the sideplate if possible. This helps put forces on the drag stack from the center to the outside of the drag stack instead at the pressure at the center.
That reel has been well used or stored. ;D I soak those parts in CLR or similar type of cleaner just to clean off the corrosion. Dip in corrosionX, wipe and assemble. I would replace the front most top bar with a new bar because the pitting of the top bar when and if the line hits it may cut the line under pressure.
Whomever I have serviced your reels, you will notice that I will always choose the smoothest bar and place it on the front or change the bar out with a new one for this very fact.
Another option is to replace all bars and reels seat with new parts, sand or sand blast, powder coat,... whatever suits your fancy.
Good luck and HAVE FUN.
The metal washer with the ears on it goes in the middle of the stack. It should go fiber washer, metal keyed, fiber washer, metal eared, then fiber washer, metal keyed, then the spacer on top. I would replace those fiber washers with HT-100's. 6-60's
Quote from: Bryan Young on February 04, 2015, 12:51:04 AM
Another option is to replace all bars and reels seat with new parts...
I just did that (plus a bunch of other stuff) on a very old Long Beach 68. Cost me a fair amount, but man, it HUMMMMS (and looks) like new! Worth every penny. ;D
~
A~
Quote from: Shark Hunter on February 04, 2015, 12:57:13 AM
The metal washer with the ears on it goes in the middle of the stack. It should go fiber washer, metal keyed, fiber washer, metal eared, then fiber washer, metal keyed, then the spacer on top. I would replace those fiber washers with HT-100's. 6-60's
Good catch. I missed that.
Thanks sounds good. I was just soaking posts in vinegar and was thinking they are pretty much to the point of replacement. Bought that cleaning grade vinegar and it strips off all the green pretty good.
If you replace the washers with 6-60's you will need 1 more earred washer & 1 more keyed washer for a 5+1 stack.
Your metal washers are wrong too, they should be CF, Keyed, CF, eared, CF, keyed. The metal washers always start with the keyed washer and alternate.
When a eared washer is on the first CF washer in the gear the washer turns with the gear and the CF washer does nothing.
If he has any left I'd suggest installing one of Bryan's sets, they work great in my Surfmasters and the 5-66 gear will take more washers.
For that reel, I would recommend Penn's HT-100 5 stack drag kit for that gear. with my set, I cannot get a 7 stack in the drag kit and the my 5 stack is too short for that gear.
But they are sweet! I put some of the first ones I got in my "Grouper Special".
I see now he has that Tall Steel Gear. I don't mean to bring any confusion, but I notice the plate is not the open style quick change I normally see with that gear. I tried that gear in a plate like that and it rubbed. That must be an older model gear with a different plate. A new 5 stack with 6-60's will make that thing a Beast.
If you run into any problems with that gear rubbing the plate Joe, let me know.
Bryan is right, some reels do have the tension spring under the star, on that size reel I like mine on the inside.
He mentioned that you don't really need it, I disagree, a tension spring does good things to the drag stack...just my opinion.
You should have no problem with the gears rubbing in that plate, the 66-67 and 68 were made to accept that tall gear.
Bryan's kit of seven will fit just fine, you should actually have some room left, but I don't recommend it, I would do as RowdyW mentioned.
Scott's doesn't show the 5:1 set, they're only showing the 3:1...don't ask me why :-\. The 5:1 will fit with no problems.
Fishstiicks recommended replacing the fiber washer for under the gear, I agree, but not on his choice of material, there you would do much better with a Delrin washer. Again, just my opinions.
Enjoy your build.
Sal
Quote from: Alto Mare on February 04, 2015, 05:52:03 AM
Bryan's kit of seven will fit just fine, you should actually have some room left, but I don't recommend it, I would do as RowdyW mentioned.
Sal, you got my washer to fit 7? I tried it on my 113 gear and I couldn't fit 7 in the gear...maybe I was using a different Carbontex washer at the time...I'll check it out this weekend as I'm on my way to Dallas tomorrow.
Quote from: Bryan Young on February 04, 2015, 02:50:23 PM
Sal, you got my washer to fit 7? I tried it on my 113 gear and I couldn't fit 7 in the gear...maybe I was using a different Carbontex washer at the time
When I "must have" 2 more washers in a drag stack and the top eared washer is slightly high I make special eared washer for the top one. The top eared washer must be partly in the gear to do this.
I cut eared washers with long ears then round off the ears on one side, not one ear but one side of each ear. Then I put the long eared washer between 1/4" thick special washer with a bolt holding them together tight. Now either tap the ears down with a UHMW punch or use another "special" washer and a clamp to bend the ears.
So far I've only done this for one other person and it requires the reel in my shop to hand fit the washer. Using .020 CF and metal washers eliminate the need for this.
Quote from: Bryan Young on February 04, 2015, 02:50:23 PM
Quote from: Alto Mare on February 04, 2015, 05:52:03 AM
Bryan's kit of seven will fit just fine, you should actually have some room left, but I don't recommend it, I would do as RowdyW mentioned.
Sal, you got my washer to fit 7? I tried it on my 113 gear and I couldn't fit 7 in the gear...maybe I was using a different Carbontex washer at the time...I'll check it out this weekend as I'm on my way to Dallas tomorrow.
Yes!
Here is a pic with 7, as you could see, there is still room for a thick stock keyed washer
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/005_3.jpg) (http://s1101.photobucket.com/user/pescatore1/media/005_3.jpg.html)
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/006_1.jpg) (http://s1101.photobucket.com/user/pescatore1/media/006_1.jpg.html)
I'm liking your 7 washers better than the 5 HT100, now I could do what I really like.
Here is a pic with a Delrin belleville, instead on another metal keyed washer
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/007_1.jpg) (http://s1101.photobucket.com/user/pescatore1/media/007_1.jpg.html)
and of course the Delrin for under the gear, can't beat this layout.
For those that wanted to give this a go, you'll need to use Black Pearl's custom spacer sleeve and you will also need to reduce the OD on the belleville as I'm showing, unless you could find the correct size
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/009_2.jpg) (http://s1101.photobucket.com/user/pescatore1/media/009_2.jpg.html)
I have a press and doesn't take much for me to cut the belleville, but you could do it other ways.
I love Bryan's thin washer sets and just finished the "last" mod on my 501 Super.
I use my belt sander to reduce the OD on metal and Delrin washers.
Thanks Sal.
I have to look at that again and make up kits for that set. I may have been using a different, thicker Carbontex washer in my initial measurements.
Thank you,
Bryan
You guys never cease to amaze...simple configurations and order can make such a huge difference...As the age old saying goes "The Devil is in the Details". Thanks.
Agreed. You all make my brain melt out of my ears when it comes to understanding the modded drags. From what I gather I plan on picking up 3x HT-100 drag washers to replace the old drag washers. Re-order the metal washers correctly. Attempt to put the spring washer that was under the star, into the drag assembly. Also replace at least the top post with a new one. Am I missing something? Easy to get lost in the drag mod mania when you are operating at apprentice level.
The spring washer works well both inside and out.
Now more to add to your corn fusion. On my 113H and 349H reels I prefer a Bellville spring washer under the star and if there's room between the top keyed washer and the side plate a second Bellville on top of the last keyed washer. I'm starting to think a wavy spring washer is the best choice for smaller reels.
Quote from: JoePlo on February 04, 2015, 06:02:00 PM
Agreed. You all make my brain melt out of my ears when it comes to understanding the modded drags. From what I gather I plan on picking up 3x HT-100 drag washers to replace the old drag washers. Re-order the metal washers correctly. Attempt to put the spring washer that was under the star, into the drag assembly. Also replace at least the top post with a new one. Am I missing something? Easy to get lost in the drag mod mania when you are operating at apprentice level.
You guys are absolutely right, we move too fast and forget about the newer guys. Forget about the Delrin and lets start new.
In your gear at the moment you have (3) washers, the reason they work is that they're thick .
When replacing those (3) older washers, you will need to order (5) to make it work, the (5) new washers are much thinner than the older ones.
Your (5) washers should look similar to this:
https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Parts/6-113HSP.aspx (https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Parts/6-113HSP.aspx)
These above are for the 113H, don't go by size, I'm only showing the configuration because Scotts is only showing (3) instead of (5)
You also have another option to go with Bryan's (7) kit.
I hope this helps , we're here to answer questions if you need us to.
Sal
The original drag washers are 6-113 & uses 3 of them. If you use 6-60 drag washers they are thinner & you can use 5 of them & add 1 more eared washer & 1 more keyed washer to make up the stack. Using 5 of the original type 6-113 will not fit as far as the height. Longbeach 60 & 65 models use 6-60 as the original washers. Longbeach 66,67, & 68 use 6-113 originally because they have a taller main gear. RUDY
Thanks all for the tips. Completed the rebuild today and I am quite impressed. Reel is incredibly smooth and the drag seems nasty. Minus being sent a wrong size post the reel is complete. Due to the drag modification, the outside spring washer needed to be removed. I don't believe this is an issue? The drag can be backed off completely now and when tightened it seems you would sheer off gears before the drag let go.
(http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w284/Inspectojo/DSC_0763.jpg) (http://s179.photobucket.com/user/Inspectojo/media/DSC_0763.jpg.html)
(http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w284/Inspectojo/DSC_0760.jpg) (http://s179.photobucket.com/user/Inspectojo/media/DSC_0760.jpg.html)
Good job, Joe --
Those 66s are a great reel -- 6 posts -- narrow -- tall spool -- hard to beat.
There are plenty of upgrades -- but for now, that reel will catch plenty of fish.
Best,
Fred