i took apart a 505(first reel ive ever done) cleaned/sanded everything looks good..having a hard time getting the side plate to snap back on and when it does its stiff to turn and the spool doesnt free spin( before cleaning it spun forever :o ) i have no idea what i missed when putting it back together
One guess would be the off handle side bearing is too tight, back it off put the reel back together and then adjust the spool thrust (side play).
Lee is exactly correct --
Just back off the left side bearing adjuster --
Also one more hint -- when installing the right side plate assembly with the spool in place -- put the eccentric lever in the free spool position -- this will give you a little more freedom of movement when attaching everything finally together. It backs the pinion off some.
Good work, and good learning!
Post some pics, if possible.
Best,
Fred
You guys are confusing me :'(. Lee said handle side bearing and Fred said left side bearing. ;D
Quote from: Max Doubt on February 14, 2015, 09:52:52 PM
You guys are confusing me :'(. Lee said handle side bearing and Fred said left side bearing. ;D
"off handle side" ;) I occasionally work on LH reels.
i got it back together somewhat..it turns ok but not perfect.before i took it apart i got 20 second spin on the spool, now maybe 10 if lucky.. i oiled it with abu garcia silicote reel oil( what i had on hand)
Back the bearing off.
when i did that the spool spun less ???
Did you clean the bearings before you re oiled them?
no, i didnt.. but when the reel was bone dry it spun great.. im still thinking i screwed somewhere along the way
Quote from: tom5500 on February 14, 2015, 10:30:18 PM
no, i didnt.. but when the reel was bone dry it spun great.. im still thinking i screwed somewhere along the way
If the side plate screwed on like a Senator you might have damaged the bearing but I doubt you could do it by force on a Jigmaster.
it was tough to get off..i lightly sanded the inside rim to get rid of the buildup and it seated ok
That reel was pretty crusty. I bet the oil loosened some crud in those bearings slowing your freespool.
That or they need replaced.
Quote from: tom5500 on February 14, 2015, 10:45:16 PM
it was tough to get off..i lightly sanded the inside rim to get rid of the buildup and it seated ok
Good.
Quote from: Shark Hunter on February 14, 2015, 10:58:33 PM
That reel was pretty crusty. I bet the oil loosened some crud in those bearings slowing your freespool.
That or they need replaced.
how would i clean them?.. they might be somewhat new as when i cleaned the drag washers they were the carbon type..maybe both were changed
how much back and forth play should the spool have?
Not much. Tighten the bearing as you slide the spool back and forth, when the thrust is gone back the bearing of a tiny bit. Then check the freespool. Depending on your sensitivity you should feel a bit of side play or none at all.
i tightend it down but get maybe a five second spool spin
First hold the spool from turning and then with the eccentric engage turn the handle to engage the pinion gear. Try the freespool. If this does not help back off the bearing a tiny bit at a time and see if it gets better.
bear with me as im new to this ;D.. i held the spool and turned the handle, but unless i really crank down on the drag the handle spins freely, when tightened the spool spins way less..
We have patience and everyone was new to reel repair at one time.
Loosen the spool bearing.
Spool should have 1/16-3/32 play when the tail plate bushing is adjusted correctly.
I stay away from that old silicone lube just for this reason. IMO It makes everything sluggish instead of smoooth ;)
Quote from: Keta on February 15, 2015, 01:43:57 AM
We have patience and everyone was new to reel repair at one time.
Loosen the spool bearing.
if i back it out i get less spin.. i pushed the spool all the way left/right so you can see the travel distance
Screw in the left side bearing leaving just a hint of sideway play with the spool, tilt the reel with the handle side facing down and spin the spool while in freespool, let me know if you hear any clicking sound.
Quote from: Alto Mare on February 15, 2015, 02:42:14 AM
Screw in the left side bearing leaving just a hint of sideway play with the spool, tilt the reel with the handle side facing down and spin the spool while in freespool, let me know if you hear any clicking sound.
not a sound
Did you replace the handle side bearing?
Sounds like your bearings need cleaning or replaced, it might be as simple as too much grease. if you would like them to spin, don't use grease, use oil. I use a drop of Reel-X, also, on one of your pics the jack looks pretty corroded, I can't see the yoke. Both parts should be clean, so does the spool shaft and the inside of the pinion.
Post a photo of the inside of the handle side sideplate assembly.
Quote from: Keta on February 15, 2015, 03:04:29 AM
Post a photo of the inside of the handle side sideplate assembly.
Quote from: Alto Mare on February 15, 2015, 02:58:02 AM
Sounds like your bearings need cleaning or replaced, it might be as simple as too much grease. if you would like them to spin, don't use grease, use oil. I use a drop of Reel-X, also, on one of your pics the jack looks pretty corroded, I can't see the yoke. Both parts should be clean, so does the spool shaft and the inside of the pinion.
im not sure if it shows what condition the bearings in , but i pulled the side bearing out(still in the side screw cup) held it in my fingers then put the spool in and spun it.. went for ever
The outside photos are useless, it's the inside we need to see.
.
.
That's better but it was not what I thought.
This may sound crazy -- but sometimes I have fixed these issues by going back over what was done.
Here is what we know --
Had decent free spool before cracking it open
Free spool dropped off after cleaning, grease, oil, and reassembly
Bearings seem good
Try this:
Back off all of the stand and post side screws just 1/8 turn, or so...
Check the free spool to see if any difference
Slightly tighten up the screws just a bit -- evenly all the way around.
Sometimes I get overly ambitious on tightening the screws attached to the stand too tightly -- then while the frame is not tweaked -- it is slightly torqued enough in one direction to cause performance issues.
Worth a try.
Best,
Fred
Those of us that have been doing this for years can forget basics that are we do without thinking, good call Fred. Snug down screws opposite of each other until they are all snug, then finish tightening them in the same pattern.
should there be this much space with the drag backed all the way off..(im using an old jigmaster as my reference)
Quote from: foakes on February 15, 2015, 04:42:28 PM
This may sound crazy -- but sometimes I have fixed these issues by going back over what was done.
Here is what we know --
Had decent free spool before cracking it open
Free spool dropped off after cleaning, grease, oil, and reassembly
Bearings seem good
Try this:
Back off all of the stand and post side screws just 1/8 turn, or so...
Check the free spool to see if any difference
Slightly tighten up the screws just a bit -- evenly all the way around.
Sometimes I get overly ambitious on tightening the screws attached to the stand too tightly -- then while the frame is not tweaked -- it is slightly torqued enough in one direction to cause performance issues.
Worth a try.
Best,
Fred
i gave it a shot, pretty much the same..it was bone dry when i got it , maybe the oil did slow it down :-\
Quote from: tom5500 on February 15, 2015, 05:16:44 PM
should there be this much space with the drag backed all the way off..(im using an old jigmaster as my reference)
As long as the star isn't bottoming out it will work.
I prefer to have a tiny bit of pressure on the stack when the star is fully backed off, others like no pressure but less gap than you have. This is "advanced reel tinkering" and we should stick to basics here for now.
Quote from: tom5500 on February 15, 2015, 05:18:45 PM
i gave it a shot, pretty much the same..it was bone dry when i got it , maybe the oil did slow it down :-\
What did you use for oil?
Quote from: Keta on February 15, 2015, 05:33:29 PM
Quote from: tom5500 on February 15, 2015, 05:18:45 PM
i gave it a shot, pretty much the same..it was bone dry when i got it , maybe the oil did slow it down :-\
What did you use for oil?
abu garcia silicote reel oil
That should work ok.
I have seen a lot of reels come in with good free spool -- because they are dry inside.
After servicing, the free spool drops off -- however, I know that the reel will last 10 times longer than a dry one, work better in the salt, and handle the largest fish time after time -- without scoring or burning the drive train.
A dry reel poorly or not lubricated, will experience as much wear in one trip -- than the same reel properly lubed will in a lifetime.
That is why an engine will run well for 300K miles or more with good maintenance and proper lubrication -- and maybe 10 minutes without oil -- before becoming toast.
Just my opinion.
Everything seems to be getting slightly better with your learning and tweaking.
If it were me, I might get some 321 oil, Yamaha Marine grease, Cal's drag grease -- take it down completely once more -- clean every part, including the inside of the pinion, and spool ends with "0000" steel wool -- reclean once more -- start from the beginning -- try it again. The worst that will happen, is you will get more experience.
Best,
Fred
i'll give it a go during the week.. thanks to everyone for the help/info :)
I would take it back apart and check your drag stack. Possible eared washer is out of the gear. Happens sometime.
took it apart/back together...(might help figure out what might be wrong) when i engage the clicker and turn the handle it just spins, doesnt force the spool to click( only clicks on free spool)
Also very new at this, so please don't take offense at the question, has the clicker been engaged when you've been testing the freespool?
Quote from: tom5500 on February 17, 2015, 06:57:20 PM
took it apart/back together...(might help figure out what might be wrong) when i engage the clicker and turn the handle it just spins, doesnt force the spool to click( only clicks on free spool)
I can not see how this can happen.
Quote from: Padre on February 18, 2015, 01:18:06 AM
Also very new at this, so please don't take offense at the question, has the clicker been engaged when you've been testing the freespool?
:) not when i was testing how long it would spin.. i engaged the clicker to test it today(freespool on and off)
Quote from: Keta on February 18, 2015, 01:25:14 AM
Quote from: tom5500 on February 17, 2015, 06:57:20 PM
took it apart/back together...(might help figure out what might be wrong) when i engage the clicker and turn the handle it just spins, doesnt force the spool to click( only clicks on free spool)
I can not see how this can happen.
well dont look at me to figure it out ;D ;D
Quote from: Keta on February 18, 2015, 01:25:14 AM
Quote from: tom5500 on February 17, 2015, 06:57:20 PM
took it apart/back together...(might help figure out what might be wrong) when i engage the clicker and turn the handle it just spins, doesnt force the spool to click( only clicks on free spool)
I can not see how this can happen.
when i turn the handle when its in freespool it seems to have a rough/high spot at six oclock(black plastic part of the handle) which you cant feel when the freespool isnt on
What part of the country do you live in? You have me curious and I'd like to look at your reel.
Take Lee up on this offer tom. ;)
I have come across this from time to time as Fred stated the oil is what slowed the bearings down. As the viscosity of the oil you used is a bit higher then I would use and then going from none to that will cause the bearings to slow on free spool. Also, under load of a lure I doubt you would notice a distance change with the oil verses dry and most likely would better. The biggest way to see this change is a dry lube ceramic bearing vs a lubed hybrid ceramic bearing. The difference is HUGE in a free spill test but in actual castint, most can not tell the difference. I tell every one before changing lubricants and bearing in their reel, to test it in real fishing applications to actually see a difference. If I was you and you want to do it on your own. I would pull the bearings clean them with carb cleaner and then put tsi 301 in them, you will see a big difference. Or run the reel over to Lee. As he will have them running right
Quote from: tom5500 on February 17, 2015, 06:57:20 PM
took it apart/back together...(might help figure out what might be wrong) when i engage the clicker and turn the handle it just spins, doesnt force the spool to click( only clicks on free spool)
???
Got video?
Quote from: Keta on February 18, 2015, 02:26:02 AM
What part of the country do you live in? You have me curious and I'd like to look at your reel.
NY
I'm in SE Oregon, if no one closer can look at it you can ship it to me to go through it and see what's wrong for the cost of return postage.
Quote from: DaBigOno on February 18, 2015, 11:20:40 AM
Quote from: tom5500 on February 17, 2015, 06:57:20 PM
took it apart/back together...(might help figure out what might be wrong) when i engage the clicker and turn the handle it just spins, doesnt force the spool to click( only clicks on free spool)
???
Got video?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEtWBRrZGeQ&feature=youtu.be
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEtWBRrZGeQ&feature=youtu.be
Quote from: Keta on February 18, 2015, 03:28:01 PM
I'm in SE Oregon, if no one closer can look at it you can ship it to me to go through it and see what's wrong for the cost of return postage.
thank you.. i really appreciate the offer.. i'll see if i with everyones help can work it out, if not i might have to take you up on your offer ;D
Quote from: tom5500 on February 14, 2015, 08:36:38 PM
i took apart a 505(first reel ive ever done) cleaned/sanded everything looks good..having a hard time getting the side plate to snap back on and when it does its stiff to turn and the spool doesnt free spin( before cleaning it spun forever :o ) i have no idea what i missed when putting it back together
sounds like your spool is not seating into your pinion gear properly and you are trying to force it in make sure your pinion gear is installed correctly. seen this before
According to the video, the spool has too much lateral play, you should be able to adjust that by screwing in the non-handle side plate bearing.
Then see if the drags are working properly by tightening down the star; and turning the handle and holding spool.
Let us know
Tighten the drag and the handle will turn the spool for the clicker
That is the first thing I notice too Al. That spool is moving around way too much.
I agree with Shark Hunter. The spool has too much side to side movement. In reply #22 the edge of the spool is clearly too far away from the handle side plate assembly. You should not be able to stick a screwdriver blade between the spool and the inside chrome ring. Try adjusting the bearing cap on the non-handle side so that the installed spool can be moved back and forth with your fingers .005" to .010" (5 thousandths to 10 thousandths of an inch). You should be able to feel it move no more than the thickness of an open matchbook cover.
*edited to correct my spelling error.
ok .. redid it once again ;D .. got everything perfect, spool doesnt move side to side, everything functions 8)
:)
:D im pretty sure the way i put it back together was my issue..(another poster mentioned pinion gear) after i rechecked everything i held the handle side in my hand then inserted the spool corectly into the pinion then put the case on, twisted and :)
Glad you figured it out Tom! ;D
Way to stick with it Tom! :)
Quote from: tom5500 on February 19, 2015, 07:43:58 PM
:D im pretty sure the way i put it back together was my issue..(another poster mentioned pinion gear) after i rechecked everything i held the handle side in my hand then inserted the spool corectly into the pinion then put the case on, twisted and :)
Had a couple of reels come to me that way some take a little more effort to get the spool to seat correctly glad it worked out we were all there at one time.