I wonder if one of the members here got this one :-\...great deal.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Penn-116L-12-0-Senator-Fishing-Reel-/381217024111?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2047675.l2557&nma=true&si=W92Hx2YJT2irAdZ3MUIKuQRvM10%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc
Sal,
Stop wondering. Indeed a member did get this reel . Isn't it a beauty and with a rare bag . Not me ...I was too slow!
Ray
How did I manage to miss that? Beautiful reel, and with the 'fair trade' price box, not to mention the bag and no.17 catelog. Only missing the wrench and 2 lube tubes.
How about the 10/0?
http://m.ebay.com/itm/181650108610?nav=SEARCH
No doubt about that reel .It's another beauty. Circa 1950 , 3 piece spool with line post in excellent condition. I'd own up if i scored that.
QuoteNo doubt about that reel .It's another beauty. Circa 1950 , 3 piece spool with line post in excellent condition. I'd own up if i scored that.
Ray,
I think the 10/0 may even predate 1950. Look at the size of the stand rod clamp bolts, those are early 3/16 carriage bolts. This was a very good deal. No, it was not me who got this one, but I do know who won the 12/O. I have been sworn to secrecy................................ ;D Again..... :-X :-X :-X
I have a good idea who got it, I actually let it go, I spotted that reel at the very beginning.
I still have it on my watch list at the same time it was listed ;D
Mike,
It maybe a year earlier but with line post and the lines around the counterweight unlike the first gen it would be the last of the L'house boxed reels . The earliest 2nd gen were still found with drilled spools and coin edged counterweights . I would class it as an early 2nd gen but not the earliest 2nd gen. Probably only a year in that. I have it's twin and i can remember seeing one in a L'house box on Ebay. I know the early first gen 10/0's used the skinnier 9/0 posts.
The twin to the ebay reel is the most modern 10/0 i have and i don't know when the larger holes in the foot commenced.
Ray
Ray, Mike, and Ted too,
You guys are a wealth of knowledge on this stuff, and it is a pleasure to be able to learn about these old classics from you.
Sal,
I can see there isn't much that manages to slip past you.
Definitely a pair of Beauties! ;D
QuoteMike,
It maybe a year earlier but with line post and the lines around the counterweight unlike the first gen it would be the last of the L'house boxed reels . The earliest 2nd gen were still found with drilled spools and coin edged counterweights . I would class it as an early 2nd gen but not the earliest 2nd gen. Probably only a year in that. I have it's twin and i can remember seeing one in a L'house box on Ebay. I know the early first gen 10/0's used the skinnier 9/0 posts.
The twin to the ebay reel is the most modern 10/0 i have and i don't know when the larger holes in the foot commenced.
Ray
I find the 10/O as the odd ball of the Senators. I feel that Penn made a slip up by not introducing it before the 12/O. That is why it wound up with the strange model number 116A. I imagine all the Penn engineers sitting around a lunch table in 1938, talking about what they forgot to do and one of them yelling, "Oh no, we introduced the 12/O last year by mistake. That was supposed to be the 10/O. How are we going to fix this?".
The 10/O was supposed to be the Model 116, the 12/O the Model 117, the 14/O the Model 118 and finally the 16/O should have been the Model 119, but they introduced them out of order and had to fix it by calling the 10/O a Model 116A. I suspect someone put too much vodka in the punch at one of the office parties and put the wrong reel in the catalog... :P :P :P
Interesting that you mention the 9/O pillars on the early 10/O's. Many people do not know that the 10/O is actually a hybrid of a 9/O width combined with a 12/O plate diameter, giving the 10/O parts interchangeability with the 115 and 116 models.
I forget what year Penn went to the large carriage bolts for the rod clamp but I do remember that Penn first offered the heavy duty stand and clamp as a option before it became the way it was built.
Love these threads and all the knowledge they hold...beautiful reels!
You are right, Dan --
The History conveyed to us here -- is amazing.
In my linear way of thinking, I always thought that a 10 was a narrow 12. And a 14 a narrow 16.
Of course this is true -- but I never knew the line of progression, as the models evolved. More to the point, IMO, would be the reasons and demands that led to an expanded product line.
For example: Was Penn responding to the market for a particular model?
Or was Penn defining the market (if we build it, they will come?).
Fascinating.
Best,
Fred
QuoteFor example: Was Penn responding to the market for a particular model?
Or was Penn defining the market (if we build it, they will come?).
No doubt that Penn defined a market for the working class man. There was a new market demand for big game reels, but that was always with the high end buyers. Companies like Fin-nor, Coxe, Kovalovski, vom Hofe, even Pflueger and Ocean City were providing big game reels for the Hollywood and the Deep Pockets fisherman.
And then came Penn in 1936 & 37, all of a sudden a regular guy could buy a reel like the Senator 115 or 116 and go Tuna or Bill fishing without having to take out a mortgage for that reel or have his fingers gone by the end of the day. Penn is the hero of the working class fisherman and in the United States and the World, that is a Major Market! :)
Quote from: Penn Chronology on April 07, 2015, 03:48:49 PM
QuoteFor example: Was Penn responding to the market for a particular model?
Or was Penn defining the market (if we build it, they will come?).
No doubt that Penn defined a market for the working class man. There was a new market demand for big game reels, but that was always with the high end buyers. Companies like Fin-nor, Coxe, Kovalovski, vom Hofe, even Pflueger and Ocean City were providing big game reels for the Hollywood and the Deep Pockets fisherman.
And then came Penn in 1936 & 37, all of a sudden a regular guy could buy a reel like the Senator 115 or 116 and go Tuna or Bill fishing without having to take out a mortgage for that reel or have his fingers gone by the end of the day. Penn is the hero of the working class fisherman and in the United States and the World, that is a Major Market! :)
This may be a quote you are remembered by...
Quote
For example: Was Penn responding to the market for a particular model?
Or was Penn defining the market (if we build it, they will come?).
No doubt that Penn defined a market for the working class man. There was a new market demand for big game reels, but that was always with the high end buyers. Companies like Fin-nor, Coxe, Kovalovski, vom Hofe, even Pflueger and Ocean City were providing big game reels for the Hollywood and the Deep Pockets fisherman.
And then came Penn in 1936 & 37, all of a sudden a regular guy could buy a reel like the Senator 115 or 116 and go Tuna or Bill fishing without having to take out a mortgage for that reel or have his fingers gone by the end of the day. Penn is the hero of the working class fisherman and in the United States and the World, that is a Major Market! Smiley
This may be a quote you are remembered by...
Thanks, I can live with that.... :)
Preach On! Michael! ;D
Ted sent me some reel parts a while back and all were supposed to be 12/0 parts. The bearings for example fit a 9/0 and a 12/0 chrome spool. I had no idea.
Quote from: Superhook on April 07, 2015, 12:25:14 AM
Sal,
Stop wondering. Indeed a member did get this reel . Isn't it a beauty and with a rare bag . Not me ...I was too slow!
Ray
My lips are sealed 8)
One of the best deals was a couple weeks ago when a late 40's mint 10/0 and 12/0 fell outta the sky....my oh my !!!
I knew it was you all along ;D, that was a great buy. I almost pushed the trigger when it first got listed, but didn't want to get kicked out of the house :'(. I'm glad you got it ;)
Quote from: Alto Mare on April 12, 2015, 12:34:47 AM
I knew it was you all along ;D, that was a great buy. I almost pushed the trigger when it first got listed, but didn't want to get kicked out of the house :'(. I'm glad you got it ;)
Ha ha, I had to make a huge list of promises to keep myself outta the doghouse. My "buy it now" finger sometimes temporarily numbs my reasoning......or something like that......It's all Mike's fault. I do love the book, my wife I'm not so sure about.
BTW Sal, I did send you a pic of that reel after a quick wipedown. Fell free to post it up if you like, I don't mind sharing pics of a few nice early examples.
Here you go buddy, my three accounts are full and I just opened another. Many of the pictures are not mine, I'm not sure I'll be able to download anymore for anyone else as well :-\
Here are the reels:
http://i.imgur.com/N7VHXkH.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/fV5JojP.jpg
Gorgeous reels my friend.
Sal
Quote from: Alto Mare on April 12, 2015, 02:41:48 AM
Here you go buddy, my three accounts are full and I just opened another. Many of the pictures are not mine, I'm not sure I'll be able to download anymore for anyone else as well :-\
Here are the reels:
http://i.imgur.com/N7VHXkH.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/fV5JojP.jpg
Gorgeous reels my friend.
Sal
Sooo shiny *_*
Nice reels Ted!
That first one is a true gem.
Isn't the lube tube the wrong color though? Thought these were army green (grease) and baby poo yellow (oil) for this period. I noticed it states 'Tropical Reel Lube', and has a plastic cap. Isn't this lube post 1950?
Care to expound on the set of 4 a bit more? Any peculiar findings here (i.e. careage bolt size, main gear depth, etc)?
Quote from: Tightlines666 on April 12, 2015, 03:05:33 AM
Nice reels Ted!
That first one is a true gem.
Isn't the lube tube the wrong color though? Thought these were army green (grease) and baby poo yellow (oil) for this period. I noticed it states 'Tropical Reel Lube', and has a plastic cap. Isn't this lube post 1950?
Care to expound on the set of 4 a bit more? Any peculiar findings here (i.e. careage bolt size, main gear depth, etc)?
John, I have only gave them a quick wipe down and likely wont tear into internals till this fall. Here is what little info I have. I'm like most guys, still learning.
The butterscotch nob 12/0 is 1952 and tropical lube came out sometime shortly after. To me the correct lube tube is by no means a deal breaker. Those show up for auction 100 times more than the reels from that era.
The red nob is late 40's 10/0 and it does have the small carriage bolts for rod clamp and I believe that changed sometime in the early 50's to the large carriage bolts.
The 6/0 on the left is also late 40's, as is the 12/0 on the far right. Only reel in that pic with visible part numbers is the butterscotch nob 12/0, other 3 are all correct for lighthouse box, but none have their boxes except the 1952 12/0 pictured.....Ray owns all the boxes last I checked...lol
Thank you for posting Sal.....and just so you know. That 12/0 was listed as new and the small amount of line was there for a reason. If the seller removed that line they could not have listed as new. Tiny amount of spotting on the arbor says it was used, but I'm ok with that, cause it is still very respectable.
Ted,
Seeing as Sal's Albums are full i will post them so we can all have a look.
Ted's 12/0 with rare Factory bag and all the goodies
(http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/m531/kingfisher57/Teds%2012-0_1.jpg) (http://s1130.photobucket.com/user/kingfisher57/media/Teds%2012-0_1.jpg.html)
Ted's Senators 6/0 , 10/0 and 2 x 12/0's.
(http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/m531/kingfisher57/Teds%20Senators%20L-R%206-0%20%2010-0%20%2012-0%20and%2012-0_1.jpg) (http://s1130.photobucket.com/user/kingfisher57/media/Teds%20Senators%20L-R%206-0%20%2010-0%20%2012-0%20and%2012-0_1.jpg.html)
Very nice Ted.
Ray
Ray, is there any info on the drawstring bags ?? like what era were they added in the box ?? If I had to guess it was only for a handful of years in 40's to early 50's, but I may be way off... We have about 24 hours till Mike gets off work and perhaps has some info on them.
I've seen several cloth penn bags for the 6/0 and 9/0 but have only seen one other for 12/0 and it was tattered pretty good.
Ted,
I can remember reading in the back of the catalogs that the bags came with the leather cases .
Catalog #6 has 4/0 , 9/0 and 12/0 .
Cat. #7 says the cases with bags are available for all the Senators 4/0 -16/0.
I suspect that the Penn buyers could have been adverse to spending more dollars on a leather case and Penn may have sold customers some bags without cases.
My 1939 12/0 Senator bag does not have the writing on the bag like yours. I have not seen a leather case.
Ray
Thanks for taking over with the pictures Ray. The new site I found to download pics will really get you close and personal, I like it.
If you click on the picture it will zoom in nicely, showing all details.
I thought that reel would have came with the lighthouse box :-\, I have most of the penn catalogs and still gets confusing.
I believe mid fifty's was the last year for the 3-piece spool.
I had a couple reels with the light house box come through my hands and could kick myself for selling them, both had the reels stored in those bags.
But as Ted mentioned, I have seen them in other boxes, I actually sent one to Mike with the red spool. ;D
I know they were selling a bunch on line not long ago, for a couple of dollars, but I wasn't interested. I hope one you you penn gurus grabbed them.
Sal
Oops, Ray you posted as I was typing...sorry
Sal,
The good thing about Ted's 12/0 is as a complete unit it has the #17 cat (1952), box together to help date it .
Mike says 1949 was the last of the L'house boxes and the early 2nd generation Senators from 4/0 up were in the L'house boxes. There could have been some L'house boxes left over and used into 1950 as Penn tossed nothing out even going as far as sticking different labels on previously labeled boxes .A practice from as early as the mid 30's.
The change to the colourful labels in 1950 for the Senators was just to match the labels used on most of their other models not to coincide with the one piece spools introduced in 1956 ..as you correctly said.
Penn used some plastic bags for their smaller reels in the box as did Ocean City also.
A regretful decision on the Penn bags. They are difficult to find.
Ray
Thanks Ray. Now, my No 17 full size catalog has been stamped Apr 1955 ;D, I know they run one year late.
Hello Everyone, good to be back. Seems like there are some good solutions to old problems and a little bending of history going on.
QuoteThanks Ray. Now, my No 17 full size catalog has been stamped Apr 1955 Grin, I know they run one year late.
I have tried over the years to draw lines as to when catalogs, boxes, reels. lubes and all the Penn products were made. Sometimes, knowing exact dates for product introduction and discontinuation is not as exact a science as I would like it to be.
I always think of Lighthouse boxes finishing up in 1949 but I am sure that they were sold until their stock was depleted, so that 1949 date is not written in stone.
The constant state of confusion in the World of Penn reels is not unique to the brand. Basically it is fairly common for the history of fishing reel brands to have confusing and very elusive trails of genealogy. As confusing as the evolution of Penn can be, it really is not nearly as confusing as other older brands. Penn if fairly cut and dry as to its founder and creator and the flow of family ownership from 1932 to 2003. If you start to study other brands like Ocean City, you start to see a company that was created from numbers of other companies, basically the existence of a company like Ocean City is based on a Corporate Merger, rather than having a single founder like Penn has.
I sort of like the confusion at times. It creates speculations and makes the collector think. Sometimes it causes interesting discussions that result in discoveries of things you were not looking for when the discussion began. What made me want to look into Penn were all the unanswered questions. if all things at Penn would have been fully and exactly documented, there would be no questions and that would be boring.............
Catalog 17 spans two years, (1952 and 1953), I like to think I discovered that that or at least reasoned it out.
On page 1 of the color #16 catalog, Penn welcomes their readers to the 1951 catalog. The logical next step is to think of the #17 catalog as a 1952. It does have a Grander Marlin catch on the front cover dated August, 1952, so chronological reasoning would date this catalog as a late 1952 issue, but then I open this color cover #17 catalog and read Mr. John Egly's letter, to the customers on page 1, welcoming them to the contents of the new 1953 catalog! So what happened to 1952? The answer is there is no answer. The best solution is hypothesis, which can always be believed or contested, depending on the interpreter.
It was a change not to get the smack when the teacher came back to class this time. ;D............It's not easy stayin' outta trouble.
QuoteIt was a change not to get the smack when the teacher came back to class this time. Grin............It's not easy stayin' outta trouble.
No way, Ray!!. We are a team, you are never in trouble.
You guys couldn't get into trouble if you try. ;D
I understand what you're saying Mike, I just want to point out that one of my favorite catalog, no 21, the very first sentence is: "In this 1958 catalog".
The front page shows a 1005 Lbs Black Marlin caught with a 14/0 Penn Senator, the date stamped on the fish was 12-12-55. ;D
Sal
I had no idea that Scotts had these posted:
https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/History.aspx (https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/History.aspx)
no 18 shows 1953, just as you've mentioned, numbers still don't match thought, compared to the no 21 :-\
These probably didn't come out yearly.
"Edited as per Moderators to correct Scott's Bait & Tackle over to their new store name Mystic Reel Parts / www.mysticparts.com"
Quote from: Superhook on April 13, 2015, 05:52:45 AM
It was a change not to get the smack when the teacher came back to class this time. ;D............It's not easy stayin' outta trouble.
Ray, you only get the smack when you stir up a bunch of trouble...............please don't ask me how I know ;)
QuoteI had a couple reels with the light house box come through my hands and could kick myself for selling them, both had the reels stored in those bags.
But as Ted mentioned, I have seen them in other boxes, I actually sent one to Mike with the red spool. Grin
First I want to apologize to Sal. I should have mentioned this when you sent it to me but it slipped by me because of all the other activities I was involved in, so I want to say """THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR THE REEL BAG"".
(http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo244/m3040c/Penn%20Reel%20Bags--pre%20WW%20II/Penn%20Reel%20Bag%20from%20pre-war%20era%20005%20676%20x%20507_zpsmfv84k4q.jpg)
You did put the Red spool in the bag, which at the time I though was a very cool way to package a Penn spool, so the significance of the packaging slipped by at that time, but it should not have. These bags are great Penn collectibles that sort of just slip by many collectors. They are pre-war items that were included with the leather reels cases in the early 1940's. BTW, these leather cases are very sought after and very elusive.
(http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo244/m3040c/Penn%20Reel%20Bags--pre%20WW%20II/1941---9%20Penn%20catalog%20scan%20of%20leather%20case%20and%20reel%20bag%20962%20x%20463_zpsozw9l7ba.jpg)--scanned from #9--1941 Penn catalog.
I suspect that there were more bags bought by Penn than leather reel cases because as the reel case ran out and just disappeared from the catalogs, they must have had bags left over, so they started putting them in with high end reels of the day, the same way they used to included a plastic bag with some reels. Keeping your reels in soft reel bags was a faddish thing to do back then. I remember sewing up my own, when I was a kid. Of course my old bags where not as neatly sewn as this old bag.
(http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo244/m3040c/Penn%20Reel%20Bags--pre%20WW%20II/Penn%20Reel%20Bag%20from%20pre-war%20era%20002%20507%20x%20676_zpsvfgrda8g.jpg)
This old bag has a nice, round bottom (somehow that doesn't sound right). Did I just violate the 12 year old rule? :-[
Anyways, thanks to Sal, I have one of these old bags in my collection.
Thanks again Sal!!
Yet another fun and informative series of posts. Funny how a bag can be so interesting! Uh oh, don't ever tell our women we talk like this about a bag. :P
Mike - I like your catalog series you have there under the bag, looks quite extensive. Any reasoning behind the bag being on the No.10 cover page? I might be looking too deep into things as of late...
Quote
Mike - I like your catalog series you have there under the bag, looks quite extensive. Any reasoning behind the bag being on the No.10 cover page? I might be looking too deep into things as of late...
That was very perceptive. The binder that bag is sitting on is my first volume of Penn catalogs and ephemera. It starts at 1932 and goes to 1972. It is a massive 4 inch binder that is ready to burst. There is a second volume that goes to 2013. These binders contain mostly originals, not copies, of Penn stuff. I have all Penn catalogs except for the 1932 and 1933. Those I have copies and / or photographs of.
The bag is sitting on the #10 catalog because that is the last catalog these bags and leathers cases were featured in, so the #10 catalog is not an accidental event. I did that to see if anyone would pick up on it and you did. If this was a contest or a test you would have won the first prize..... ;)
The cases and bags made their first showing in the #6--1938 Penn catalog. The marketing in 1938 allowed someone to order the bag only or the case which came with a bag. The bags could be ordered separately in 1938 only. So, these bags and cases were offered in the catalogs in a few different ways from Catalog #6 (1938)to Catalog #10 (1942). In Catalog #11 (1946), both the bag and leather case were no longer available.
Quote
I had no idea that Scotts had these posted:
https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/History.aspx (https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/History.aspx)
no 18 shows 1953, just as you've mentioned, numbers still don't match thought, compared to the no 21 Undecided
These probably didn't come out yearly.
Sal,
The people at Scotts have my book. I have seen the chronological progression they choose to publish, let me just say this, "we agree to disagree". Their catalog yearly release flow does not make sense to me, but, that is just me. The information is the same, just the issue dates are somewhat different. Another collector gave Scotts the information they have posted and that was posted before my book was released.
QuoteUh oh, don't ever tell our women we talk like this about a bag. Tongue
Ha, They already know, but, they let us slide and will use this against us in the future if we give them reason. ;D
Quote from: Penn Chronology on April 13, 2015, 07:49:57 PM
Quote
I had no idea that Scotts had these posted:
https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/History.aspx (https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/History.aspx)
no 18 shows 1953, just as you've mentioned, numbers still don't match thought, compared to the no 21 Undecided
These probably didn't come out yearly.
Sal,
The people at Scotts have my book. I have seen the chronological progression they choose to publish, let me just say this, "we agree to disagree". Their catalog yearly release flow does not make sense to me, but, that is just me. The information is the same, just the issue dates are somewhat different. Another collector gave Scotts the information they have posted and that was posted before my book was released.
I admit..I am getting a bit confused regarding the catelog date discrepancies ???
I just sent a pretty big print job to my work computer. Regardless of release date discrepancies, my currently printing catalogs are going into a binder of my own, and should make for a valuable resource.
Mike,
Would it be difficult to share scanned copies of your catelogs, and advertisement/promotional resources here on AT? Not sure if this is something you think would be useful/appropriate, or something you would even want to do? But I am sure you must have numerous resources/sources that you have accumulated while researching info for your books. Can't hurt to ask..right? ???
QuoteWould it be difficult to share scanned copies of your catelogs, and advertisement/promotional resources here on AT? Not sure if this is something you think would be useful/appropriate, or something you would even want to do? But I am sure you must have numerous resources/sources that you have accumulated while researching info for your books. Can't hurt to ask..right? Huh?
A project I am currently working at is a source book. Scanning catalogs and posting those scans here sounds like an endless project, even my source book will not have complete catalog scans. There are over 2000 pages for the catalogs alone and if we included, schematics, ephemera, letters, photographs, etc, etc, I do not know if I will live long enough to complete the job.
I honestly want to share as much as I can, but, I have to be realistic. Posting all my material here would be too much for me.
Quote from: Penn Chronology on April 13, 2015, 04:44:46 PM
QuoteI had a couple reels with the light house box come through my hands and could kick myself for selling them, both had the reels stored in those bags.
But as Ted mentioned, I have seen them in other boxes, I actually sent one to Mike with the red spool. Grin
First I want to apologize to Sal. I should have mentioned this when you sent it to me but it slipped by me because of all the other activities I was involved in, so I want to say """THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR THE REEL BAG"".
(http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo244/m3040c/Penn%20Reel%20Bags--pre%20WW%20II/Penn%20Reel%20Bag%20from%20pre-war%20era%20005%20676%20x%20507_zpsmfv84k4q.jpg)
You did put the Red spool in the bag, which at the time I though was a very cool way to package a Penn spool, so the significance of the packaging slipped by at that time, but it should not have. These bags are great Penn collectibles that sort of just slip by many collectors. They are pre-war items that were included with the leather reels cases in the early 1940's. BTW, these leather cases are very sought after and very elusive.
(http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo244/m3040c/Penn%20Reel%20Bags--pre%20WW%20II/1941---9%20Penn%20catalog%20scan%20of%20leather%20case%20and%20reel%20bag%20962%20x%20463_zpsozw9l7ba.jpg)--scanned from #9--1941 Penn catalog.
I suspect that there were more bags bought by Penn than leather reel cases because as the reel case ran out and just disappeared from the catalogs, they must have had bags left over, so they started putting them in with high end reels of the day, the same way they used to included a plastic bag with some reels. Keeping your reels in soft reel bags was a faddish thing to do back then. I remember sewing up my own, when I was a kid. Of course my old bags where not as neatly sewn as this old bag.
(http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo244/m3040c/Penn%20Reel%20Bags--pre%20WW%20II/Penn%20Reel%20Bag%20from%20pre-war%20era%20002%20507%20x%20676_zpsvfgrda8g.jpg)
This old bag has a nice, round bottom (somehow that doesn't sound right). Did I just violate the 12 year old rule? :-[
Anyways, thanks to Sal, I have one of these old bags in my collection.
Thanks again Sal!!
There is no need to thank me Mike, it was nothing.
Quote from: coastal_dan on April 13, 2015, 05:59:39 PM
Yet another fun and informative series of posts. Funny how a bag can be so interesting! Uh oh, don't ever tell our women we talk like this about a bag. :P
Mike - I like your catalog series you have there under the bag, looks quite extensive. Any reasoning behind the bag being on the No.10 cover page? I might be looking too deep into things as of late...
Catalogs are fun to collect, I have most myself, but still hunting a couple of them down. Knowing that Mike is also still looking for some is not good news for me ;D.
Here are mine, I also have a 4" folder, but I'm sure these are no way close to mike, as for condition.
http://i.imgur.com/10AIuNn.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/qHhZhtq.jpg
Let me warn you that from the 16 down, they could get quite expensive...good luck!
Quote from: Penn Chronology on April 13, 2015, 08:32:06 PM
QuoteWould it be difficult to share scanned copies of your catelogs, and advertisement/promotional resources here on AT? Not sure if this is something you think would be useful/appropriate, or something you would even want to do? But I am sure you must have numerous resources/sources that you have accumulated while researching info for your books. Can't hurt to ask..right? Huh?
A project I am currently working at is a source book. Scanning catalogs and posting those scans here sounds like an endless project, even my source book will not have complete catalog scans. There are over 2000 pages for the catalogs alone and if we included, schematics, ephemera, letters, photographs, etc, etc, I do not know if I will live long enough to complete the job.
I honestly want to share as much as I can, but, I have to be realistic. Posting all my material here would be too much for me.
You've asked for quite a bit there John :-\...Mike, I don't blame you ;D.
Quote from: Penn Chronology on April 13, 2015, 08:32:06 PM
QuoteWould it be difficult to share scanned copies of your catelogs, and advertisement/promotional resources here on AT? Not sure if this is something you think would be useful/appropriate, or something you would even want to do? But I am sure you must have numerous resources/sources that you have accumulated while researching info for your books. Can't hurt to ask..right? Huh?
A project I am currently working at is a source book. Scanning catalogs and posting those scans here sounds like an endless project, even my source book will not have complete catalog scans. There are over 2000 pages for the catalogs alone and if we included, schematics, ephemera, letters, photographs, etc, etc, I do not know if I will live long enough to complete the job.
I honestly want to share as much as I can, but, I have to be realistic. Posting all my material here would be too much for me.
Mike,
Understood :)
I wonder if there is money in the AT budget to hire an intern or 'sorcerer's apprentice' to handle this sort of thing?
I think I speak for everyone when I say..We are very happy to have you here, and are most content to soak up whatever knowledge, and wisdom you are able to bestow upon us.
I imagine you are a busy man, so we do appreciate any time you spend on the forum.
Sal,
Cool, and valuable, collection of catalogs there. When it comes to Penn stuff, I am beginning to wonder what exactly you don't already have.
I thank you also Mike for everything you have brought here.
Mike.
Tightlines,
http://orca-online.org/services/library/
ORCA make copies of catalogs for Members only at 15 cents a page. We could ask to see if the Library would consider a 20 cents a page to Non Members. Sure beats the prices of collecting original catalogs if just wanting to acquire the information .
http://orca-online.org/reel-talk/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=16653
I have posted this on ORCA .
Ray
Quote from: Superhook on April 13, 2015, 09:57:19 PM
Tightlines,
http://orca-online.org/services/library/
ORCA make copies of catalogs for Members only at 15 cents a page. We could ask to see if the Library would consider a 20 cents a page to Non Members. Sure beats the prices of collecting original catalogs if just wanting to acquire the information .
http://orca-online.org/reel-talk/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=16653
I have posted this on ORCA .
Ray
Ray,
Thanks for that valuable info. Now that you mention it, I remember reading that thread some time ago. I am a member, but I guess I never got around to ordering copies of the catalogs. I now have all of those posted on Scott's, so I guess I had better order copies of catalogs 23 through 41B to complete my resource binder. This is, by my rough estimate, aprox. 350+pages, or about $53. This is probably less then I can buy a single catalog for, so not a bad deal at all. If someone was ordering the whole lot, they would be looking at nearly $100 savings by becoming a member. Not a bad way to recruit ORCA members, though I seem to recall a post from someobe who thought the opposite.
Thanks again!
QuoteInsert Quote
Tightlines,
http://orca-online.org/services/library/
ORCA make copies of catalogs for Members only at 15 cents a page. We could ask to see if the Library would consider a 20 cents a page to Non Members. Sure beats the prices of collecting original catalogs if just wanting to acquire the information .
http://orca-online.org/reel-talk/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=16653
I have posted this on ORCA .
Ray
Ray, that is why we are a team. I should have thought of this. The ORCA library is a great source for a tiny investment.
There are steps, If you want access to the ORCA Library, you would have to join ORCA, not really a big deal and the benefits of the membership far out weigh the cost of yearly dues ($40.00 a year). That $40.00 gives you the subscription to the Reels News, library services, connections within the fishing world all the way to the IGFA, a great website forum to be part of and many other benefits that I am not mentioning. If it were not for ORCA, I would not be part of this website and I would not be published at all. The members of ORCA are the pinnacle of the fishing reel collector world.
But there are other ways. Penn catalogs are not difficult. They are continuously showing up on EBay and are usually at fishing shows. There is no price guide or way to put a value on them. Sal is correct, when you get into the pre-war books expect to see higher bids but that does not mean you have to buy them. You can also get them as byproducts (my favorite way).
Look for package deals with reels, boxes and catalogs included. Buy them, make a high quality copy of the catalog, then resell the package. My good friend, the late Artie Stahlie, (an inspiration for the book) had every catalog from 1934 to about 1984 and he did not own one original book. He would buy them, copy them and then resell the ones he bought. It is a time consuming activity but that is why they call it a hobby, it adds activity and adventure to your life.
In the meantime, whenever I can contribute I will and whatever I feel is too much to ask, I will communicate that fact also. I feel friendship here, so honesty goes along with that. I feel no one-sidedness at all. I contribute because I like to share ,but, the members here have been continuously generous with their knowledge and any assistance that I have needed, as well. This is a very comfortable place to be.
I think Ray likes it too! :D
Amazing library! Thanks for posting the link. Joining ORCA is on my list of things to do.