So i bought a ht-100 drag kit from Scotts. Installed them greased with cals. so am getting straight 7 pounds of max drag. right now i have it like this : Sleeve,drag washer,main gear,drag washer, washer, drag washer, eared washer, drag washer, washer, spring washer, spacing sleeve, star, handle. when i take the spring washer out i get 7 1/2 or so.
the star its not touching the frame when i go on max... the eared washer is inside the main gear ..... no spectra on the spool.... i have marked then spool and shaft to see if it was spinning and nothing... also i have electric tape so no slipping :(
Quote from: bestout on April 10, 2015, 03:53:26 AM
So i bought a ht-100 drag kit from Scotts. Installed them greased with cals. so am getting straight 7 pounds of max drag. right now i have it like this : Sleeve,drag washer,main gear,drag washer, washer, drag washer, eared washer, drag washer, washer, spring washer, spacing sleeve, star, handle. when i take the spring washer out i get 7 1/2 or so.
the star its not touching the frame when i go on max... the eared washer is inside the main gear ..... no spectra on the spool.... i have marked then spool and shaft to see if it was spinning and nothing... also i have electric tape so no slipping :(
Sounds like it may be a spacing issue. How far (i.e. how many rotations) does the star need to be tightened to start getting drag? Pictures of the fully assembled drag stack/gear assembly outside of the reel, may help members to aid in diagnosing your culprit.
Quote
Sounds like it may be a spacing issue. How far (i.e. how many rotations) does the star need to be tightened to start getting drag? Pictures of the fully assembled drag stack/gear assembly outside of the reel, may help members to aid in diagnosing your culprit.
http://imgur.com/y8JDrs9
http://imgur.com/kE9LEXF
http://imgur.com/UrJevaF
this are all without the spring washer this setting i get 6ish pounds max
with the spring washer i get drag right away but if i want to loosen the whole drag i cant cause i hit the handle
Order looks good, do you have a picture showing the spacing sleeve, star, and handle in place? Want to see the space between the star and handle when just starting to apply tension to spring washer/drag stack...or can you tell us how many 1/5 revolutions the star needs to be cranked to get there?
Quote from: Tightlines666 on April 10, 2015, 04:48:51 AM
Order looks good, do you have a picture showing the spacing sleeve, star, and handle in place? Want to see the space between the star and handle when just starting to apply tension to spring washer/drag stack...or can you tell us how many 1/5 revolutions the star needs to be cranked to get there?
this is wihtout the spring washer http://imgur.com/UrJevaF hope it helps if not ill take one
Quote from: bestout on April 10, 2015, 04:47:38 AM
with the spring washer i get drag right away but if i want to loosen the whole drag i cant cause i hit the handle
Ok, so its may not be a spacing issue then. Can you provide a pic of the inside of the main gear? Do the slots run all of the way to the bottom of the gear? Is there any noticable marring, or gouges along these xhannels, or on tue inside surface if the main? Basically check that the metal washers will move up and down freely in the gear, even under pressure.
Quote
Ok, so its not a spacing issue then. Can you provide a pic of the inside of the main gear? Do the slots run all of the way to the bottom of the gear? Is there any noticable marring, or gouges along these xhannels, or on tue inside surface if the main? Basically check that the metal washers will move up and down freely in the gear, even under pressure.
i dont have one right now but i have found that the eared has a tiny small play but that's about it everything goes flush
A little play is normal.
I would also check:
-Ensure that the he star is not getting caught on the sideplate when tightening down
-Make sure the first eared washer can travel all the way down The gear, and all washers move up and down relatively freely (if not polish/debur as appropriate)
Sometimes reassembling the complete gear/drag stack (handle,bridge and all outside of the reel, then testing its function. You can do this by holding the gear with something soft, and crankimg while applying increased drag load. It might tell you if something is binding or jumping, or mis-behaving. If this assembly functions properly inside, and out of the reel, then it needs to be something else. If you eleminated line slipping, the other possibility that comes to mind, is that the spool is actually slipping on the spool shaft. You should be able to see this problem too.
Quote from: Tightlines666 on April 10, 2015, 05:13:25 AM
A little play is normal.
I would also check:
-Ensure that the he star is not getting caught on the sideplate when tightening down
-Make sure the first eared washer can travel all the way down The gear, and all washers move up and down relatively freely (if not polish/debur as appropriate)
Sometimes reassembling the complete gear/drag stack (handle,bridge and all outside of the reel, then testing its function. You can do this by holding the gear with something soft, and crankimg while applying increased drag load. It might tell you if something is binding or jumping, or mis-behaving. If this assembly functions properly inside, and out of the reel, then it needs to be something else. If you eleminated line slipping, the other possibility that comes to mind, is that the spool is actually slipping on the spool shaft. You should be able to see this problem too.
Yea Bryan told me about line slipping and the spool shaft but i got electric tape on the spool and i have already marked the spool shaft to see if it was moving under pressure but its not
Thats good you don't have a bad dpool or line slippage. As I said, I would:
Make sure the star is not binding in the side plate.
Check the inside of main gear.
Test function of completely assembled drag/bridge assembly outside of reel.
You should be able to get this figured out with a little patience, and by eliminating possible problems. If you become fully stumped, I'm sure you can ship it to one of our members to take a closer look.
Quote from: Tightlines666 on April 10, 2015, 05:23:30 AM
Thats good you don't have a bad dpool or line slippage. As I said, I would:
Make sure the star is not binding in the side plate.
Check the inside of main gear.
Test function of completely assembled drag/bridge assembly outside of reel.
You should be able to get this figured out with a little patience, and by eliminating possible problems. If you become fully stumped, I'm sure you can ship it to one of our members to take a closer look.
Yep ill check it outside the reel tomorrow. Thanks for the help :D
Could be as simple as a new spring washer.
Backing the star and hitting the handle would be related to the spacer or the thickness of the star.
In your case, from looking at your pictures you have the correct star and your spacer is already sitting low.
On most Jigmasters you would have 1/8" of the spacer sticking out from the tip of the plate bushing, I'm surprised your not hitting the right side spool bushing with the star when cranked all the way.
I'm not sure you're aware, but there are a few different length spacers available from Scotts, the best though would be from Pro Challenger ( Black Pearl ), he has 10.5mm-11.5mm and 12.5mm, all good to have for many applications.
The custom spacers from Pro Challenger are thicker, a good thing to have, those would help with keeping the gear sleeve square under stress.
On another note:
I've mentioned a few times that the gear sleeve needs to be a little taller, but no one will listen :-\, two more threads is all that would be needed....too bad.
Sal
Like Sal sez, a crisp new spring would help (or put a bend in the old one, if it is just flattened a bit -- to test it).
Also the longer gear sleeve would really help, when and if ever available.
In the meantime, one could experiment with different stars that have the recessed ring groove -- for a little more pressure and star travel adjustment -- Along with slightly different sized spacers -- to get the right combination that might work.
Some are cheap fixes, and doable -- to get more drag.
Best,
Fred
Quote from: foakes on April 10, 2015, 02:53:55 PM
Like Sal sez, a crisp new spring would help (or put a bend in the old one, if it is just flattened a bit -- to test it).
Also the longer gear sleeve would really help, when and if ever available.
In the meantime, one could experiment with different stars that have the recessed ring groove -- for a little more pressure and star travel adjustment -- Along with slightly different sized spacers -- to get the right combination that might work.
Some are cheap fixes, and doable -- to get more drag.
Best,
Fred
Quote from: Alto Mare on April 10, 2015, 02:04:41 PM
Could be as simple as a new spring washer.
Backing the star and hitting the handle would be related to the spacer or the thickness of the star.
In your case, from looking at your pictures you have the correct star and your spacer is already sitting low.
On most Jigmasters you would have 1/8" of the spacer sticking out from the tip of the plate bushing, I'm surprised your not hitting the right side spool bushing with the star when cranked all the way.
I'm not sure you're aware, but there are a few different length spacers available from Scotts, the best though would be from Pro Challenger ( Black Pearl ), he has 10.5mm-11.5mm and 12.5mm, all good to have for many applications.
The custom spacers from Pro Challenger are thicker, a good thing to have, those would help with keeping the gear sleeve square under stress.
On another note:
I've mentioned a few times that the gear sleeve needs to be a little taller, but no one will listen :-\, two more threads is all that would be needed....too bad.
Sal
the spring washer its a new one from scott the black ones. and this is a picture that shows when the star its no longer able to turn. http://imgur.com/S9qiJYK i took the spring washer off by the way.
I dont understand how the 500L is able to pull 15lb at max am only pulling half of that
Quote from: bestout on April 10, 2015, 05:29:50 PM
I dont understand how the 500L is able to pull 15lb at max am only pulling half of that
Looking at your photos I think your stack needs one more stainless washer. This is another belleville type that has a ) curve to it.
Your stack seems to have a standard flat washer for it's last one. When the spacing sleeve presses on it, it will cause it to bow (= like so. It is critical that the last one is like this )= so that the force is applied to the outer edge of the washer first. The outer edge is where the greatest drag force is realized. If the force is only applied in the center it is a fraction of the force that could be applied.
The washers are sold in a set and that last one should have a slight bend in it and may be what is the source of the trouble?
Quote from: johndtuttle on April 10, 2015, 10:23:35 PM
Quote from: bestout on April 10, 2015, 05:29:50 PM
I dont understand how the 500L is able to pull 15lb at max am only pulling half of that
Looking at your photos I think your stack needs one more stainless washer. This is another belleville type that has a ) curve to it.
Your stack seems to have a standard flat washer for it's last one. When the spacing sleeve presses on it, it will cause it to bow (= like so. It is critical that the last one is like this =( so that the force is applied to the outer edge of the washer first. The outer edge is where the greatest drag force is realized. If the force is only applied in the center it is a fraction of the force that could be applied.
The washers are sold in a set and that last one should have a slight bend in it and may be what is the source of the trouble?
Thanks for the reply. So what should i do now. This jigmaster use to have 3 washer and 2 thick drag washers.
bestout, It might be that your eared washer is dropping out of the main gear on assembly & laying on top of the gear. When assembling the bridge, gear, washers, & spring washer install the spacer & star wheel & tighten it down. Then remove the star wheel & wind a rubber band around the end of the sleeve to keep the whole assembly tightly together & install in plate. After snugging the 4 screws remove the rubber band & install the star wheel, handle, etc. Like I said it seems like the washers are slipping out when they are unsupported. RUDY
Quote from: RowdyW on April 10, 2015, 10:59:06 PM
bestout, It might be that your eared washer is dropping out of the main gear on assembly & laying on top of the gear. When assembling the bridge, gear, washers, & spring washer install the spacer & star wheel & tighten it down. Then remove the star wheel & wind a rubber band around the end of the sleeve to keep the whole assembly tightly together & install in plate. After snugging the 4 screws remove the rubber band & install the star wheel, handle, etc. Like I said it seems like the washers are slipping out when they are unsupported. RUDY
When i install the assembly i dont turn the gears upside down i just set them on the table and put the frame on top and screw everything. But ill try the rubberband way
Quote from: bestout on April 10, 2015, 10:58:08 PM
Quote from: johndtuttle on April 10, 2015, 10:23:35 PM
Quote from: bestout on April 10, 2015, 05:29:50 PM
I dont understand how the 500L is able to pull 15lb at max am only pulling half of that
Looking at your photos I think your stack needs one more stainless washer. This is another belleville type that has a ) curve to it.
Your stack seems to have a standard flat washer for it's last one. When the spacing sleeve presses on it, it will cause it to bow (= like so. It is critical that the last one is like this =( so that the force is applied to the outer edge of the washer first. The outer edge is where the greatest drag force is realized. If the force is only applied in the center it is a fraction of the force that could be applied.
The washers are sold in a set and that last one should have a slight bend in it and may be what is the source of the trouble?
Thanks for the reply. So what should i do now. This jigmaster use to have 3 washer and 2 thick drag washers.
It should have one under gear washer (Part #4) and then 3 drag washers (#6) and 3 stainless washers (#7) sold as a set. What is you drag stack?
Sometimes reels that are bought used are assembled from whatever parts the seller has found. You may not have the proper last stainless washer...
Quote from: johndtuttle on April 11, 2015, 12:45:59 AM
Quote from: bestout on April 10, 2015, 10:58:08 PM
Quote from: johndtuttle on April 10, 2015, 10:23:35 PM
Quote from: bestout on April 10, 2015, 05:29:50 PM
I dont understand how the 500L is able to pull 15lb at max am only pulling half of that
Looking at your photos I think your stack needs one more stainless washer. This is another belleville type that has a ) curve to it.
Your stack seems to have a standard flat washer for it's last one. When the spacing sleeve presses on it, it will cause it to bow (= like so. It is critical that the last one is like this =( so that the force is applied to the outer edge of the washer first. The outer edge is where the greatest drag force is realized. If the force is only applied in the center it is a fraction of the force that could be applied.
The washers are sold in a set and that last one should have a slight bend in it and may be what is the source of the trouble?
Thanks for the reply. So what should i do now. This jigmaster use to have 3 washer and 2 thick drag washers.
It should have one under gear washer (Part #4) and then 3 drag washers (#6) and 3 stainless washers (#7) sold as a set. What is you drag stack?
Sometimes reels that are bought used are assembled from whatever parts the seller has found. You may not have the proper last stainless washer...
I bought the drag kit from scott the ht100 which i think thats what i did wrong and under the main gear i got the drag washer from the penn senator black. I have it set up like this sleeve, dragwasher under main gear, main gear, drag washer, washer, drag washer, eared washer, drag washer, washer, spacing sleeve, star, handle. Here i did it with the rubberband http://imgur.com/ushzpDx
Quote from: johndtuttle on April 10, 2015, 10:23:35 PM
Quote from: bestout on April 10, 2015, 05:29:50 PM
I dont understand how the 500L is able to pull 15lb at max am only pulling half of that
Looking at your photos I think your stack needs one more stainless washer. This is another belleville type that has a ) curve to it.
Your stack seems to have a standard flat washer for it's last one. When the spacing sleeve presses on it, it will cause it to bow (= like so. It is critical that the last one is like this )= so that the force is applied to the outer edge of the washer first. The outer edge is where the greatest drag force is realized. If the force is only applied in the center it is a fraction of the force that could be applied.
The washers are sold in a set and that last one should have a slight bend in it and may be what is the source of the trouble?
I just did what you told me and still no luck i have it put it like this =( and still getting 5lb of drag
Can you try another spool?
Quote from: RowdyW on April 11, 2015, 05:24:22 AM
Can you try another spool?
wow you just hit it right on the spot and now tomorrow im going to fish sooo sad :( its the spool . i put the metal one i had old one and i tried to pull line and it was just toooo hard so its the SPOOL and i bought it brand new about a week ago wow......
Well lets hope nothing big catches the jigmaster ..... >:( >:( >:(
pm sent
Glad it got figured out. Everybody on this site tries to help out till it gets solved. Nobody quits till it's done right. Good Luck fishing today. RUDY
Quote from: RowdyW on April 11, 2015, 06:06:30 AM
Glad it got figured out. Everybody on this site tries to help out till it gets solved. Nobody quits till it's done right. Good Luck fishing today. RUDY
Yep thats why i love this site :) and thanks to everyone. Gotta wake up at 4 2hours of sleep 8)
While doing a Squidder about 3 weeks ago -- experienced similar issues.
After having it back apart 3 times -- and inspecting the spool, which seemed OK -- finally just tried another spool.
No issues -- worked perfect.
This is not the most common issue -- but it happens.
If you bought the spool from a reputable shop -- they should swap it out at no charge.
Best,
Fred
Glad you got it figured out. Good Job Rudy.
When you guys say its the spool, what would be wrong with it? The line slipping? Or something with the shafts?
The shaft was slipping inside the spool under load. RUDY
Glad you got it all sorted out.
Seems like this problem appears occasionally on new stock aluminum spools. Although this reel was not upgraded or pushed beyond origional manufacturer specs, this seems like an example of the types of problems that might show up when we push the reel's limits with existing upgrades.
Has anyone ever seen this spool shadt slipping issue on other Jigmaster spools?
I.e. US made alum vs. Chinese made alum, Chromed bronze, Tiburon, Accurate?
Maybe I'm overthinking this one, asside from the old 3 piece spools, any of these should certainly handle much higher stress numbers then the reels were originally designed for.
I know the spool shafts are pressed in to the arbors in all of the above cases. So, asside from differences in type of materials used, length of spool shaft, etc.. they should all be able to handle similar stresses before failing. This isn't really that common of a problem, and is likely due to some manufacturing-related defect.
Quote from: Tightlines666 on April 11, 2015, 07:55:59 PM
Glad you got it all sorted out.
Seems like this problem appears occasionally on new stock aluminum spools. Although this reel was not upgraded or pushed beyond origional manufacturer specs, this seems like an example of the types of problems that might show up when we push the reel's limits with existing upgrades.
Has anyone ever seen this spool shadt slipping issue on other Jigmaster spools?
I.e. US made alum vs. Chinese made alum, Chromed bronze, Tiburon, Accurate?
Maybe I'm overthinking this one, asside from the old 3 piece spools, any of these should certainly handle much higher stress numbers then the reels were originally designed for.
I know the spool shafts are pressed in to the arbors in all of the above cases. So, asside from differences in type of materials used, length of spool shaft, etc.. they should all be able to handle similar stresses before failing. This isn't really that common of a problem, and is likely due to some manufacturing-related defect.
Bryan has seen 2 i think he told me .
Thanks everyone your guys are the best
Yup! you could rest assured that members here will always get to the bottom of it.
If somehow we can't solve the problem, we send it to this guy, he'll take care of it ;) ;D
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=9570.0
Quote from: Alto Mare on April 12, 2015, 01:26:26 AM
Yup! you could rest assured that members here will always get to the bottom of it.
If somehow we can't solve the problem, we send it to this guy, he'll take care of it ;) ;D
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=9570.0
Lol :o ;D
Quote from: Alto Mare on April 12, 2015, 01:26:26 AM
Yup! you could rest assured that members here will always get to the bottom of it.
If somehow we can't solve the problem, we send it to this guy, he'll take care of it ;) ;D
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=9570.0
hahaha xD