I have a trip to Alaska coming up in a few months for five days of bottom fishing. I haven't spent a lot of time at sea and 90% of my fishing has been on rivers and lakes for trout & steelhead.
Halibut, cod, snapper, and the hardware to get them in the boat is all new to me.
Not wanting to be a passive guest on this trip I started picking up tackle and preparing early. I like the thought of catching fish with my own gear and it would be great to out-fish a few friends in the process. This is where the Penn 113 enters.
After reading up on many Penn models, new & vintage, the Senator line fit the bill budget-wise and it has a legacy of success.
I found the pictured reel below locally and the cost was low enough that I can spring for a few upgrades :)
I'm excited to take it apart and get it serviced to better than new condition for my trip!
(http://i859.photobucket.com/albums/ab154/fastback6nine/Mobile%20Uploads/20150412_193010.jpg)
(http://i859.photobucket.com/albums/ab154/fastback6nine/Mobile%20Uploads/20150412_192848.jpg)
(http://i859.photobucket.com/albums/ab154/fastback6nine/Mobile%20Uploads/20150412_192827.jpg)
(http://i859.photobucket.com/albums/ab154/fastback6nine/Mobile%20Uploads/20150412_192943.jpg)
Knowing that I may not use this reel a lot makes me think that not all of these upgrades need to take place.
Of the upgrades I've seen, the bold items below are the ones I'm considering:
Tiburon T4W frame = $81 (http://www.tiburonfishingreels.com/senator (http://www.tiburonfishingreels.com/senator).)
SS gear sleeve = $25 from Alan Tani (when stocks are replenished)
SS Dog (pawl) = $3 each from Alan Tani, Myself, or Keta
SS 4:1 Gears = $50 from Alan (Black Pearl)
5 CF Drag Kit = $11 (https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Parts/6-113HSP.aspx (https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Parts/6-113HSP.aspx))
1 CF Drag Washer (under main gear) = $2 (https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Parts/6-113H.aspx (https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Parts/6-113H.aspx))
Will these all work fine together? My main goal is to wind up with a reel that's better than stock and rock solid.
Thanks for any feedback.
"Edited as per Moderators to correct Scott's Bait & Tackle over to their new store name Mystic Reel Parts / www.mysticparts.com"
a stainless steel gear sleeve and a 5-stack drag would be where i would start. i'd also go with the #24-56 penn handle. i'd spool it up with straight 40# test and go with 8-10 pounds of drag. a red side plate 113h would really be a better reel.
Thanks, Alan -
I looked up the handle and that would be a big advantage over stock for sure.
I'll shoot you a PM on the gear sleeve as well...
Someone sent me a few reels from Alaska, from looking at the shape they were in, I would recommend the 113H vs the 113, as Alan mentioned.
Sal
I've gotta go with sal on this one. I would strongly recommend not putting money into this reel. Get a 113hl instead.
Thanks, guys.
HL or HLC? No large difference either way?
I'll start looking for one - I appreciate the honest feedback. I'm still two months out on this trip so I have time to make it happen.
I suspect the parts list will remain the same when I find one, and I can still rip into this reel and get it in better working order before selling it off.
So,
I'll be in the minority here. I hate to disagree with the boss and the guru but the PacNorWest has killed my stuff for years. I like the 113 for it's bushings and the low ratio makes cranking easy. If you need it faster a 66 bridge will make it a little quicker. I have a narrowed one that I absolutly love for what your talking about.
Of course, I am in the very small minority.
Ron
Whichever route you decide. The drag kit you have listed is for the 113H. Not the 113.
No guru here Ron, we know who the real guru is, I believe he was the first to answer here ;D.
I don't have anything bad to say about the 113, but for what Tab is intending to use it for, a 113H is a better choice.
Some like to use 3.25:1 stock gear ratio, steel are great if you could find them.
I had faster gears in one of those for a friend up there and he sent it back ;D, he knows the conditions, he has been fishing there for a while, he actually lives there ;D.
If a 113 could handle those butts it would be great, I would personally take the 113H. why wouldn't you, same size reel but much stronger under the hood.
Sal
Tab, 4:1 gears won't fit in your reel. Those are for the 113H. However, there is nothing wrong with the 2:1 gears in your reel. It will be easier to crank heavier fish, and not everyone wants speed while bottom fishing.
Like Ron, I'm also in the minority. Here is my beefed-up and narrowed 113.
(http://i1162.photobucket.com/albums/q523/rumbum01/P1010380.jpg)
That is a capable looking reel, George --
Narrowed, solid frame, top bar, power handle, SS spool -- probably a little upgraded inside, besides drags?
My take is a little different -- not to disagree with the experts -- just taking a different road.
I have only been to Alaska twice to fish -- North of Ketchican.
Both times we were targeting Kings primarily, and other Salmon. Along with trying to get some large Lings.
And then, there was the Halibut --
The higher speed reels worked well for almost everything -- Kings, large Lings, and my favorite eating Halibut in the 20 to 30 pound range.
When we got blown around and needed to pull into some of the smaller, deep coves -- we put our lines straight down with a spreader for Halibut. We fished at an average of 300 feet, and generally got bit pretty quickly on every drop. My largest was 115 pounds -- and we were using the boats gear, which were 330gtis, if I recall.
On these larger Butts, it just came down to raising the rod as possible -- then cranking on the down. Perhaps gaining a few feet every cycle -- then losing it back as the fish decided to go back down after easing them up towards the surface.
A high speed reel was not the answer here -- I would have opted for something built like a tank -- with a 2 or 2.5 gear ratio -- at least for these larger Butts.
From a practical preparation standpoint -- if I was in Tab's shoes, I would keep the black 113 -- do the drags, delrin top and bottom, SS sleeve, SS dog, and power handle. Personally, I would also do a frame like George's. Use this guy for larger Butts.
Then look for a good 113H, that would take a frame, handle, sleeve, dog, and better drag stack -- and use that for everything else besides the big Halibut.
Hopefully, he might be able to afford this, since he got a good deal on the black 113.
Then he would have two capable reels for a great trip to Alaska -- prepared in case a back up or reel change out is called for. And they would be two lifetime reels for future trips.
Just my opinion.
Would like to hear from Lee, Gary, and Bill -- they are the Alaska experts.
Best,
Fred
IMHO, the 113H is the right reel for deep dropping for halibut.
We fish 500-800+ for halibut and 113H is the weapon of choice. you can't pull a big flatty in any faster with the higher gear ratio, BUT the huge advantage lies in retrieving an empty hook. With 113H I'm doing around 300 cranks to bring my gear up from bottom with minimum 2# of lead that feels like 20# of lead about halfway up. With a standard 113 I'd be cranking closer to 500 times just to retrieve my gear..........NO THANKS
..........and the larger halibut won't come in any faster with the 113H, but every time you lift the rod to gain 3' you will have 3 cranks with 113, but only 2 cranks with 113H, so definitely an advantage, especially for old farts like me.
Another thing to be aware of when bringing your own gear on a charter boat is what gear the boat rods have. Alaska has some of the biggest tide swings in the world, and captains will use the same line on all reels so they all have equal blowback when fishing deep to keep tangles at a minimum. It's always a good idea to find out what line is on the boat rods so you can match it....ie spectra or mono and what poundage.
caught a few handful of 100lb blacktips on it, still holding strong.
i only upgraded the drag washers (from Alan) and a power handle.
Quote from: Max Doubt on April 13, 2015, 04:10:49 PM
We fish 500-800+ for halibut and 113H is the weapon of choice. you can't pull a big flatty in any faster with the higher gear ratio, BUT the huge advantage lies in retrieving an empty hook. With 113H I'm doing around 300 cranks to bring my gear up from bottom with minimum 2# of lead that feels like 20# of lead about halfway up. With a standard 113 I'd be cranking closer to 500 times just to retrieve my gear..........NO THANKS
Yup, OL' BLACKIE is recommended for slightly shallower depths ;) If I were going on a trip like this, I'd bring a 113, 113H and a Baja Special, because I have all three. I would initially try out the 113, as I'm curious about it's capabilities. BTW, Tab, there are several threads on upgraded black 113's and we've also called them Grouper Specials. Do a search on this topic for more info.
Quote from: bestout on April 13, 2015, 04:24:44 PM
caught a few handful of 100lb blacktips on it, still holding strong.
i only upgraded the drag washers (from Alan) and a power handle.
Are you using a 113?
George
BTW, Tab, are you ready to spend some money? ;D ;D ;D
Quote
Are you using a 113?
George
BTW, Tab, are you ready to spend some money? ;D ;D ;D
yes here it is 50lb 150 yards and 80lb 300 yards of braid http://imgur.com/us4ZdBh
Nice!
Quote from: George4741 on April 13, 2015, 05:14:25 PM
BTW, Tab, are you ready to spend some money? ;D ;D ;D
I've entered into a few hobbies like this and know there are deep rabbit holes all over the place.
We do the best we can...
Quote from: tab on April 14, 2015, 01:34:14 AM
Quote from: George4741 on April 13, 2015, 05:14:25 PM
BTW, Tab, are you ready to spend some money? ;D ;D ;D
I've entered into a few hobbies like this and know there are deep rabbit holes all over the place.
We do the best we can...
ready set gooo
A little different fishing than what you will be doing, but we used to drop 400-600' for large chilles, lings an the sort with 10-15 hook gannon's with the basic black 4/0 & 6/0 senators. Many a heavy loads brought up with those stock reels
The 3.25:1 113H has caught a lot of halibut. Not many people used the 2:1 113 and I preferred the 3.25:1 349H A 113 should work though.
No new parts, but I did spend some time and tune up the 113 tonight.
Some of the drag washers were dry and stuck together and there was no visible grease or oil on anything, so it was time for the maintenance.
The clicker switch was more than a little crusty (stuck actually), but a little penetrating oil and a lot of movement once free returned it to normal operation.
Despite never having used this reel I sure feel I know it a lot better.
Put a set of Carbontex CF washers in it and fish.
Sal,
I really like slow reels for bait fishing. Especially when winching up 100 pounds of barn door. A 113 with all the stainless goodies and steel gears can pull an awful lot. I have also had oiled bearings go crummy in freezing salt water conditions. I like bushings whenever casting isn't involved. Don't get me wrong though, my Newelled YTS is a blast with Alans 8.5ft Super Seeker and a surface iron.
Ron
The jigmaster's size bridge post isn't as strong as the 113H bridge and the gear set could handle lots of drag, just like the 49. I've seen a few bridge post get loose on those. But I must say, today we have better drags and a Delrin washer for under the gear will make it smoother yet.
A smooth working reel doesn't fail as easy as one that feels jerky.
As I've said before, if the reel fail or not, we learn just the same.Try that 113 and show us what it could do.
Sal
maybe we should start another rule here. say, for the new guys first upgrade, we limit him to $20, then he has to go fish with his reel. i worry about you guys spending too much money. ;D
Quote from: alantani on April 14, 2015, 04:08:54 PM
maybe we should start another rule here. say, for the new guys first upgrade, we limit him to $20, then he has to go fish with his reel. i worry about you guys spending too much money. ;D
I already passed 20 :)
yeah, i know alot of guys do, even on their first go around. the reason is that you might likely not be able to recover your investment if you suddenly need to sell. if i knew for sure that you would not take a loss, then i'd say fine.
Sorry to get off subject here, but does my black 3/0 take the same drag as a black 4/0?
Basto
Yes bastro, they both take 3 of 6-113 washers. Either one can be updated by using 5 of 6-60 washers & adding one more keyed & one more eared washer. Also you might need a slightly shorter spacer or shorten the one you have. RUDY
Thanks Rudy
Quote from: alantani on April 14, 2015, 04:08:54 PM
maybe we should start another rule here. say, for the new guys first upgrade, we limit him to $20, then he has to go fish with his reel. i worry about you guys spending too much money. ;D
Was that $20 or $200 ;D you gave me the same advice and I took it for the most part. I just like fixen things & sometimes that costs money. If you just want an upgrade to fish you can go on the cheap and have a nice reel. If you want to have fun in this hobby then it will cost you. You can buy a brand new 2 speed reel for $220 that will catch some big fish or you can spend that and more on a reel that will catch fish, fill a need in your life & can pass down to the kids. The choices are plenty ;D
Big Tim
Quote from: Big Tim on April 15, 2015, 01:06:00 AM
Quote from: alantani on April 14, 2015, 04:08:54 PM
maybe we should start another rule here. say, for the new guys first upgrade, we limit him to $20, then he has to go fish with his reel. i worry about you guys spending too much money. ;D
Was that $20 or $200 ;D you gave me the same advice and I took it for the most part. I just like fixen things & sometimes that costs money. If you just want an upgrade to fish you can go on the cheap and have a nice reel. If you want to have fun in this hobby then it will cost you. You can buy a brand new 2 speed reel for $220 that will catch some big fish or you can spend that and more on a reel that will catch fish, fill a need in your life & can pass down to the kids. The choices are plenty ;D
Big Tim
You said it 👍💪
I would like to tag on this conversation. I would be interested in Alan's $20 initial upgrade. I fish Alaska, live here in fact. I have both a 113 and a 113H. They are stock, never serviced. About 6 or 7 years old. What would I do with my first $20 or so +-20. I have caught some decent halibut. I target 40 to 60 lb with a few over a hundred that get sent back to stock my hole. Thoughts?
Quote from: AlasKen on May 16, 2015, 06:36:14 AM
I would like to tag on this conversation. I would be interested in Alan's $20 initial upgrade. I fish Alaska, live here in fact. I have both a 113 and a 113H. They are stock, never serviced. About 6 or 7 years old. What would I do with my first $20 or so +-20. I have caught some decent halibut. I target 40 to 60 lb with a few over a hundred that get sent back to stock my hole. Thoughts?
The first $20, I say spend on supplies for self servicing, I.E marine grease and corrisonX. A good strip down and cleaning goes a long way. If the drags are not Carbon Fiber then upgrade the drages to CF and grease them with cals and go fish those bad boys. That should do it.
After that... the sky is the limit.
Quote from: fIsHsTiiCkS on May 16, 2015, 06:58:17 AM
Quote from: AlasKen on May 16, 2015, 06:36:14 AM
I would like to tag on this conversation. I would be interested in Alan's $20 initial upgrade. I fish Alaska, live here in fact. I have both a 113 and a 113H. They are stock, never serviced. About 6 or 7 years old. What would I do with my first $20 or so +-20. I have caught some decent halibut. I target 40 to 60 lb with a few over a hundred that get sent back to stock my hole. Thoughts?
The first $20, I say spend on supplies for self servicing, I.E marine grease and corrisonX. A good strip down and cleaning goes a long way. If the drags are not Carbon Fiber then upgrade the drages to CF and grease them with cals and go fish those bad boys. That should do it.
After that... the sky is the limit.
Good advice.
Tab,
Are you "oldman313" on BD? 'Cause if you're not, you somehow both have coincidental plans that were both posted on 4/12.
http://www.bdoutdoors.com/forums/threads/bottom-fish-setup.584902/
Quote from: Porthos on May 17, 2015, 08:10:00 PM
Tab,
Are you "oldman313" on BD? 'Cause if you're not, you somehow both have coincidental plans that were both posted on 4/12.
http://www.bdoutdoors.com/forums/threads/bottom-fish-setup.584902/
Nope, it's not me. Just similar things happening at the same time I guess...
What metropolitan area are you in? Let's see what's on Craigslist in your neighborhood...