Hi folks,
A 6500 C3 came into my shop this week and it had some problem with sticky spool during casting. So I began checking the reel; bearings fantastic, worm gear is smooth, check the idler gear (even polished the gear shaft) and it spins smooth. Trouble is when I put the reel together, the same problem persist.
When cranking, I could feel rhythmic rubbing of the idler gear with the spool gear. When free spooling the spool appears stuck
So I took my 6500 Pro Rocket and started swapping parts to check for faulty parts. I found both spool shaft ok, both spool pinions ok. Which leaves the idler gear. The C3 spool works fine in my Pro Rocket, while the Pro Rocket spool had the same problem when I put it in the C3. So pretty much narrows it down to the C3's idler gear???
I know the reel has been opened before I got it, the owner got it second hand and never opened it himself. I'd like to know if this is the standard idler gear for the C3 or has it been replaced?
Has anyone encountered this kind of problem before? Thanks in advance for your help!
(http://i1159.photobucket.com/albums/p635/mahfudzmn/P6130834_zpswintywrl.jpg)
I have seen many different types of idler gears on deferential Abus...but only the white nylon on the C3s that snapped in without the spring retainers like in your picture. Not to say that it couldn't come with the one shown, I just haven't seen one.
Plastic gears UGH!! >:( Just can't seam to get why they are used at all. If there is a way to upgrade to brass or ss gears, that is what I would do.
So I looked back at my archive photos and found one 6500 C3 I opened last year, seems like the grey idler gear is standard part. So maybe it's broken?
This new one that came in has 3 hairline cracks (I now call them cracks because there's only one hairline on the other reel in my archive):
(http://i1159.photobucket.com/albums/p635/mahfudzmn/P6130835_zpseokyh12h.jpg)
Then this one if from a similar reel last year, just one hairline crack...Think I'm gonna have to order a replacement for this idler gear...
(http://i1159.photobucket.com/albums/p635/mahfudzmn/PC271404_zpswjmtwn8t.jpg)
Quote from: Reel 224 on June 13, 2015, 04:04:01 PM
Plastic gears UGH!! >:( Just can't seam to get why they are used at all. If there is a way to upgrade to brass or ss gears, that is what I would do.
In this case there are several reasons:
1. They greatly improve casting of light lures (when the lw mechanism is synced to the spool you don't have to overcome the weight of metal gears when casting). Even when the LW mechanism is not synced the lighter idle gears make the reel more free spinning and the feel more sensitive.
2. It also lets the cast control function better as there is less inertia to have to brake once the gear train gets moving.
3. There is a safety issue. They also break before fingers get broken by being pinched in the line guide.
So, in this case, there is not a LW mechanism in the world to my knowledge on a casting reel that is not constructed without plastic idle gears. They are used because they work better as their lightness is ideal and they do *very* light duty ;).
@OP
If you replace the split gear your problems will likely be solved. It is probably flexing at the split and binding during operation.
Quote from: johndtuttle on June 13, 2015, 06:06:51 PM
Quote from: Reel 224 on June 13, 2015, 04:04:01 PM
Plastic gears UGH!! >:( Just can't seam to get why they are used at all. If there is a way to upgrade to brass or ss gears, that is what I would do.
In this case there are several reasons:
1. They greatly improve casting of light lures (when the lw mechanism is synced to the spool you don't have to overcome the weight of metal gears when casting). Even when the LW mechanism is not synced the lighter idle gears make the reel more free spinning and the feel more sensitive.
2. It also lets the cast control function better as there is less inertia to have to brake once the gear train gets moving.
3. There is a safety issue. They also break before fingers get broken by being pinched in the line guide.
So, in this case, there is not a LW mechanism in the world to my knowledge on a casting reel that is not constructed without plastic idle gears. They are used because they work better as their lightness is ideal and they do *very* light duty ;).
@OP
If you replace the split gear your problems will likely be solved. It is probably flexing at the split and binding during operation.
Very well John I will respect your opinion as I'm sure you know more about this subject the I do. I have a Penn Surf Master 200 that casts a mile with no plastic gears though, but it is different from the reel that is mentioned here. Good luck with your 6500 mahfudzmn hope you get you problem solved.
Quote from: Reel 224 on June 13, 2015, 06:58:01 PM
Quote from: johndtuttle on June 13, 2015, 06:06:51 PM
Quote from: Reel 224 on June 13, 2015, 04:04:01 PM
Plastic gears UGH!! >:( Just can't seam to get why they are used at all. If there is a way to upgrade to brass or ss gears, that is what I would do.
In this case there are several reasons:
1. They greatly improve casting of light lures (when the lw mechanism is synced to the spool you don't have to overcome the weight of metal gears when casting). Even when the LW mechanism is not synced the lighter idle gears make the reel more free spinning and the feel more sensitive.
2. It also lets the cast control function better as there is less inertia to have to brake once the gear train gets moving.
3. There is a safety issue. They also break before fingers get broken by being pinched in the line guide.
So, in this case, there is not a LW mechanism in the world to my knowledge on a casting reel that is not constructed without plastic idle gears. They are used because they work better as their lightness is ideal and they do *very* light duty ;).
@OP
If you replace the split gear your problems will likely be solved. It is probably flexing at the split and binding during operation.
Very well John I will respect your opinion as I'm sure you know more about this subject the I do. I have a Penn Surf Master 200 that casts a mile with no plastic gears though, but it is different from the reel that is mentioned here. Good luck with your 6500 mahfudzmn hope you get you problem solved.
yep yep...the older reels are used for casting relatively heavy lead....the reels that use LW mechanisms these days can cast 1/8 oz lures...that is why they try to use ultralight components in their LW mechanisms.
No need for LW mechanisms to cast 4oz of lead etc etc. or if they have them it is no trouble as they are typically not synced to the spool when casting..
best
The problematic Idler Gear is not very visible (no warping, no nothing visible other than the hairlines) but when swapping components with a working reel suggests that it is the idler gear. What's more I found another reel in my archive which now I remembered had poor free spool too but because owner didn't want to change his busted bearings, I blamed the bearings at that time.
Just that this time the bearings were perfect Tens so I had to find a cause. Now on to finding the replacement for the idler gear, think I'm gonna try the ones with bearings :)
The idler gear material don't bug me, what I want is for Abu to revise the design/ratio of their levelwinds...the synchronized LW on the Ryoga Bay Jigging is so light and robs little energy from the spool. Then again, you can buy 3 Abus at the price of a Ryoga :-[
wait a minute, why does the one pictured at ereplacementparts also has hairlines???
(http://www.ereplacementparts.com/images/part_p_1434635_1885222018.gif)
I think those are mold lines not cracks. If the idler rubbing was rhythmic you said, not continuous, I suspect the post the cog rotates on is bent. Often someone doesnt use the proper removal technique and the post takes the blunt of it. Good luck with ereplacement, I've heard horror stories about them.
Only thing I have ever used eReplacement for is a gas tank for my Home Lite weed whacker, they were the only place that had the tank. Never had a problem with them at all.
Several years ago when I was going through my Abu upgrading stage I came upon a gray idler gear in either a 5601C or 5601C3 that i purchased around 1994 or 95. It was mentioned in a thread somewhere that I cannot find now. Basically it said to replace the grey idler asap as they were junk and had been replaced by Abu on all new product. The clips located at 9 O'clock and at 3 O'clock can be levered out and the gear will just lift off. no prying or mono tricks needed, so no stress on the post.
Quote from: mahfudzmn on June 13, 2015, 08:09:19 PM
wait a minute, why does the one pictured at ereplacementparts also has hairlines???
Looks like marks from the mold. I've never seen a grey gear in an ABU.
Quote from: Reel 224 on June 13, 2015, 06:58:01 PM
Very well John I will respect your opinion as I'm sure you know more about this subject the I do. I have a Penn Surf Master 200 that casts a mile with no plastic gears though, but it is different from the reel that is mentioned here. Good luck with your 6500 mahfudzmn hope you get you problem solved.
This is why they use a "plastic" gear.
(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g104/IGFA19Keta/Finger_Stuck2_zps2bd1535d.jpg) (http://s54.photobucket.com/user/IGFA19Keta/media/Finger_Stuck2_zps2bd1535d.jpg.html)
The Surfmaster is not a LW. One of the reasons for the plastic gear (nylon I think) is to keep from removing body parts put in the wrong place, the gear looses teeth before someone looses part of a finger.
Todays plastics are far superior than the old plastics.
Yes and I wouldn't want to have my finger caught in there if it was steel or brass, that could get ugly :P
I've done that once. Only once..!! Man it hurts..!!
Quote from: Reel 224 on June 14, 2015, 04:01:08 PM
Yes and I wouldn't want to have my finger caught in there if it was steel or brass, that could get ugly :P
Sure looks like it "done got ugly"....to me....hope the angler can still and does fish after that.
My C3's - all three - have the white gear, FWIW.
Quote from: hurt locker on June 14, 2015, 02:38:04 AM
Several years ago when I was going through my Abu upgrading stage I came upon a gray idler gear in either a 5601C or 5601C3 that i purchased around 1994 or 95. It was mentioned in a thread somewhere that I cannot find now. Basically it said to replace the grey idler asap as they were junk and had been replaced by Abu on all new product. The clips located at 9 O'clock and at 3 O'clock can be levered out and the gear will just lift off. no prying or mono tricks needed, so no stress on the post.
Thanks Mr Locker, I think I wanna find the regular white one and see what happens. Like you said, it is unlikely the post is bent because removing the gear was easy no force needed, unless someone before me screwed up the post.
Quote from: 0119 on June 13, 2015, 10:27:40 PM
I think those are mold lines not cracks. If the idler rubbing was rhythmic you said, not continuous, I suspect the post the cog rotates on is bent. Often someone doesnt use the proper removal technique and the post takes the blunt of it. Good luck with ereplacement, I've heard horror stories about them.
Thanks for the thought, I've been thinking about it but I guess the best bet is to replace the idler gear with the white version first. If it doesn't work then the reel is in deeper #### that I think it is :)
No mystery here. This style Idler Gear was standard issue in at least one generation of ABUs.
Yep, that's the one with that cheap copper ratchet tongue. Glad that didn't last!
I'm sure I have a couple of spares here somewhere.
I was not aware of any performance issues though but I'm pretty sure the white nylon gear is a straight swap.
Have you checked for a bent pivot post? That would be a prime suspect.
~
Quote from: Reel 224 on June 13, 2015, 04:04:01 PM
Plastic gears UGH!! >:( Just can't seam to get why they are used at all. If there is a way to upgrade to brass or ss gears, that is what I would do.
some guys call the plastic idler gear, "the lawyer gear", they save the company from big lawsuits from a guy that chopped his finger off.
Quote from: steelfish on January 20, 2016, 12:45:13 AM
Quote from: Reel 224 on June 13, 2015, 04:04:01 PM
Plastic gears UGH!! >:( Just can't seam to get why they are used at all. If there is a way to upgrade to brass or ss gears, that is what I would do.
some guys call the plastic idler gear, "the lawyer gear", they save the company from big lawsuits from a guy that chopped his finger off.
In today's world. That's a fact.
Joe