how do I know if this bearing or anyother is based on inches or metric to find the proper size?
I have a talica 20II that have some bad bearings, shimano is out of those bearings for 2 months and I need to get them somewhere else.
but the measures that I got from my caliper are kind of wierd, maybe I only need the size in inches or maybe just mm
can someone help me here please.
I will put the measures I got on each bearing on MM, inches and fraction, then you can tell me how to look for it.
bearing (pinion) right plate TGT 1227
sizes inches mm fraction
ID 0.3 930 9.99 25/64
OD 0.8 640 21.95 111/128
width 0.2 340 5.94 15/64
main left side bearing TGT 1329 (1239)
sizes inches mm fraction
ID 0.3 120 7.92 5/16
OD 0.7 465 18.96 3/4
width 0.2 340 5.94 15/64
spool bearings (2) TGT 1583
sizes inches mm fraction
ID 0.2 740 6.96
OD 0.5 495 13.95
width 0.1 955 4.96
As it's Shimano I would default to metric.
1st bearing
10x22x6 mm
2nd
8x19x6
3rd
7x14x5
thanks
I wasnt sure if it was safe to order them that way, specially on the OD, sometimes they are really tight to fit that 2mm more will make them almost impossible to put them back on the spool or side plate.
Quote from: steelfish on August 07, 2015, 06:19:41 PM
thanks
I wasnt sure if it was safe to order them that way, specially on the OD, sometimes they are really tight to fit that 2mm more will make them almost impossible to put them back on the spool or side plate.
Pretty much anything made outside of the USA is going to be Metric. The difference you measure is so that they will fit into their receptacle.
Also, if you have the particular reel then Boca or Dawn at smoothdrag will know the dimensions of the bearings if you contact them. They are all standard and commonly available bearings (the USA ones in inches are the only weirdos). When you start comparing your measurements to what is available it starts making more sense.
If you round up all of your numbers by a tiny bit you will see they are all standard bearings in metric dimensions, but very odd ones in inches.
guys,
I have another talica 20 and a 25 to change bearings
I already know the bearing sizes for the 20II and checking on shimano site the bearings for the 25II have the same code number.
Can I assume they are the same size than the 20II? (pretty sure it that what it means if both reels have the same bearing code) but I want to be sure before ordering them and would like to avoid opening the 25II reel just to check the bearings and close it again :-\
just checked and dawn at smoothdrag does not carry all of them. boca bearings will. i have them as well. let me know it i can help.
Thanks Alan for taking the time for checking that for me
Let me check another reel to see if I might need more parts
Generally speaking, quality dial calipers will typically be accurate to a few thousandths of an inch at any given interval. If you have calibrated gauges and a good feel, plus or minus a thousandth isnt unreasonable. But this is beyond the design accuracy of calipers. Digital calipers are typically less accurate, and further, you cant tell if a measurement seems wonky like you can with a dial.
But you dont need a super high level of accuracy to size bearings. So round your numbers to the closest, and thats your size. 0.05mm is only about 0.002", and thats certainly within the accuracy range of most calipers.
Bearings are typically measured by ID x OD x width. For example, you can search www.bocabearings.com for 4x8x3 and it will give you results for all MR84 size bearings, which are 4mm bore, 8mm OD, and 3mm wide. With the trade number (mr84) you can easily shop around.
A few other important features of standard bearing nomenclature:
an "s" prefix denotes stainless construction
a "c" suffix denotes ceramic balls. Full ceramic bearings will typically be labeled as such, and significantly more expensive.
After the dash denotes sealing
-zz means metal shields both sides
-2rs means rubber seals both sides
There are more, but those are the primary ones that apply to us here.
A while back I checked my digital calipers and micrometer against a laboratory slip gauge. I was pleasantly surprised to find that the calipers were within a thou and the micrometer less than a 1/10 of a thou :) Repeatability was spot on as well. The micrometer had a built in adjustable clutch so you always applied the same tension. The calipers required an educated 'feel' to achieve repeatability. Not really that important for my projects, but still nice to know.
Boca Bearings is closed because of storm.
-steve
thanks Adam for the explanation, that really helped
Steve, thanks for the info on Bocabearings, Alan is covering me with the bearings
well, I changed 4 bearings on the talica 20, the pinion bearing was really corroded and have lots of salt crystals and/or maybe sand, it was really toasted since its pretty rough to spin, it was actually stuck on the pinion when I took it out, I have to tap a bit the bearing from the pinion to set them apart.
I filed the surface of the pinion where it meets the bearing and now fits good on the new bearing.
but the reel once assembled still make an ugly gearing noise (like a newell reel ;D), almost the same noise and feeling on the handle you get when the bearings are bad.
not a clunky noise but a noise you hear when the pinion bearing is really toasted but this one is brand new and packed with grease.
do you have found something like this on the talicas?
this is the 2nd talica I service this week and the 1st one was smooth and straigh as silent as yuo find it on the store, but the current one is noisy.
the spool bearings spin freely and pretty silent if you spin the spool taking the spool shaft, benevilles are ()(), so the issue "seems" to be in the gearing (they seem to mesh correctly) or the new bearing (which I doubt)
any hint?
PS: the new pinion bearing "needed" a bit of help to fit on its place, I used a wrench over the bearing (flat) and the do some light hit with another tool until the bearing sit to the bottom of the side plate hole.
look closely at the gear teeth and see if there is any damage. i guess if you had to hammer in the pinion bearing, it might have been damaged in the process. let's hope it's the bearing again, and not the gears.
You might also want to just mount the shaft assembled w the pinion gear and the main gears in place of the left side plate, but fresh/extra grease on the gears, and test alignment throughout the preset/lever range. Make sure they are lining up correctly. Using magnification to closely examine the teeth in the gears is a good idea, as us noting/marking specific areas of roughness. Some members have had lick using bedding compound to precondition the gears if they are unevenly worn, but there is no specific damage.
Investigation is in order here.
John
I will check those parts tonight guys
This reel sounded like coffe grinder when I got it.
Right now its not that bad but still sounds ugly (as a 113h with newell gears)
It will only work with full ratios like 2 to 1, 3 to 1, 4 to 1, etc. It will not work with ratios like 2.2, 3.5, 4.8, etc. because every revolution of the main gear the marked pinion gear is in a different location. Rudy
Quote from: swoffer on September 28, 2017, 01:28:58 AM
Hmmm , yeh I see what your saying there . In that case every 10th turn of the handle/main gear the marks would line up again and then following the same pattern of meshing it had from when it was originally assembled ? Never really thought about why it works , just know it makes a difference with feel in the hand (especially with spinners). Anyway , its just a personal thing .
Spinners often have "square" gears for the oscillation drive so that the spool moves at different rates depending where it is in the movement; if you don't line these gears up correctly the reel will feel nasty, but they usually have alignment marks on the gears when this is the case.
On a round reel? Unlikely to make a difference, as highlighted the gears are meshing with different teeth all the time. Notwithstanding that the moment you put the reel out of gear (star drag) and turn the handle you have affected the alignment anyway.
On a round reel? Unlikely to make a difference, as highlighted the gears are meshing with different teeth all the time. Notwithstanding that the moment you put the reel out of gear (star drag) and turn the handle you have affected the alignment anyway.
[/quote]On a star drag reel they never come out of gear. The lever just disengages the pinion from the spool. Rudy
Quote from: RowdyW on September 28, 2017, 02:23:22 AM
On a round reel? Unlikely to make a difference, as highlighted the gears are meshing with different teeth all the time. Notwithstanding that the moment you put the reel out of gear (star drag) and turn the handle you have affected the alignment anyway.
On a star drag reel they never come out of gear. The lever just disengages the pinion from the spool. Rudy
[/quote]
Right you are, appears I disengaged my brain rather than my pinion :D :D
Quote from: alantani on September 27, 2017, 04:31:30 PM
look closely at the gear teeth and see if there is any damage. i guess if you had to hammer in the pinion bearing, it might have been damaged in the process. let's hope it's the bearing again, and not the gears.
well I had a hard time with this reel looking for the problem of the grinding noise.
but before starting to look this reel again I serviced another talica, it was a talica 25II and everything went smooth as it should, I changed 4 bearing on it with the same procedures I made on the 20II one and the result was a nice and smooth cranking at 18# strike in high speed on the 25II reel.
then I went back to the 20II, and disambled everything again, clean it and greased them, but the same ugly noise was still there, long story short and after many trials and error, looking each rotating part, etc, etc I ended up checking just the gears in place and the pinion on the bearing and found the next, when I was spinning the pinion there was a rough contact between both in some places not everytime but only in few places, I feel a rough mesh 2 or 3 times per full revolution of the high speed gear, by sight I couldnt found any damage in the teeth on the hight speed gear or pinion in those spots (I must be bad on searching for small damages for sure), but the roughness is now located in the mesh of the high speed gear and small pinion, I put all parts again and tried cranking the reel, it was still grinding baddly as expected in high speed, but in low speed is pretty smooth and silent even on 15# drag.
I still have with me the talica 25II, would you recommed to try the high speed gear and small pinion from it into the 25II and try one each time to find the one that is damaged or better just order both parts from shimano?
PS: I think the pinion bearing didnt got damaged when I put in place the 1st time, this time I could took it out easily with a screwdriver pick, eventho I filed a bit just a surface of the sideplate hole for the bearing and this time went in easily.
You have to be careful when putting bearings in that are tight. Push on the outer race only. They can be damaged easily. I would make sure its still good.
I keep a huge inventory of bearings if ever needed.
Keith
Great care needs to be taken when installing bearings. If it doesnt press easily in with finger pressure, you need to take care to press the only on the appropriate race. For a bearing in a housing, that would be the outer race. Especially with bearings this small, its very easy to brinell the races, which is when the balls make indentations in the race from too much pressure. That will ruin a brand new bearing. Another consideration here is that too tight of a housing or shaft fit will affect the clearances within the bearing, and can make the bearing not spin freely. This often results in a replacement bearing exhibiting the same problems as the old one.
well, I tried installing a good pinion the bearing from the 25II to the 20II and still same grinding feeling on the gears, so, it wasnt a bad pinion bearing (from when I force it).
still havent switched the pinion or high speed gear from one reel to another the see if I can find which is the damaged part, I was read that many times you have to switch pinion and gear cuz if I only get one of those brand new the other might not mesh correctly, so, what do you think guys, it worth the time to find the cultprit or better just order both parts?
don't mix gears. keep the good main and pinion apart from the bad main and pinion. if you mix them, the bad gear could mess up the good one. when you replace gears, you always have to replace them as a set, both main and pinion together. never just one or the other. learned this the hard way...... :-\
Quote from: alantani on October 02, 2017, 02:25:26 AM
don't mix gears. keep the good main and pinion apart from the bad main and pinion. if you mix them, the bad gear could mess up the good one. when you replace gears, you always have to replace them as a set, both main and pinion together. never just one or the other. learned this the hard way...... :-\
thats what I was sure I read before (pretty sure it was from you)
thanks Alan, time to talk with the owner again.