I've got the reel mentioned in the Subject since yesterday but as a newcomer to this board thought I could contribute by taking my reel apart and make pictures of it.
Although advertised as such there are no markings of Omoto on the real itself. From the pictures it looks like the omoto.
OK, the pictures are terrible. They are made with the compact of my wife as I broke my better camera. I will try to make new ones. I also see tha the board does not resize automatically so I will resize the new set by hand.
I deleted the pictures and will make new ones, these were useless
edit 9 jan: I tried again but all the close ups fail, even in daylight. I'll post the overview
(http://home.wxs.nl/~werve040/omotoq16-2.JPG)
Hi,
This is OMOTO made. The Q- were made for the Quailia company in CA USA few years back, but things did not work out between OMOTO and Quailia companies. OMOTO had to sell all those back stock for Quailia, so Pelagic in AU took most of the Quailia's old orders. I believe that Pelagic in AU would not sell the Q-16 to USA.
Anyway, if I remember that the handle bar is as strong as the new model of Poseidon S-16 II. They are very easy to bent. Other than that, it is a very strong reel. You should test out the max drag power you can get from it. You will need a picture to prove that.....LOL
You will not believe that...
Yesterday I tried to pre-set the drags of the Omoto reel. I would like the strike drag to be 18 pounds and the full drag to 25 pounds. The values were reached (quite easily) but the line is burrying itself in the spool. I had to reduce the drag from the initial setting more than 6 times to reach the figures i wanted
I used a simple method where a friend is holding the measuring scale and doing the reading of the scale and I would back-up with the rod and reel. I know that this is not a perfect method but for now it will do. The measuring scale is not ideal because it can measure up to 50 kg (approx 100 pounds) so the measurement will not be very precise.
I already spooled the dyneema under tension but I am afraid that it is not spooled under sufficient tension. The line is a 40 pound test dyneema (which i have sent to paulus fishing in Australia for testing and breaks at 53 pounds under ideal conditions).
Nevertheles the line is to thin and I think I'll have problems with the line burrying in the spool even when I re-spool it with more tension. I have ordered 65lb power pro line which is a little thicker and as the reel seems to be able to give more drag than I currently require (you'l never know when you need it) a little extra does not seem to hurt.
Also: dyneema breaks easily with the wrong knot. I made a simple knot first because I was not going near the breaking strain of the line. It broke at less than 20 pounds near the knot. Then I made a complex aussi plait knot and there was no problem. (bimini twist knot seems to be better still)
to be continued.....
Hello Reinaard,
When spooling spectra, you should put tension at least of the tension you will be using for fishing. This will ensure that the line is compact and tight, and the line will not groove into the lower layers of the line. I personally like to use the tension equal to half the line strength, if at all possible. With that said, I would not expect switching lines will help.
Unfortunately, I have not found a good winder that can actually accomplish this, and even the great winders needs help. Looking to make a line winder using gear reducers. Sure, it will probably take me 20-30 minutes to spool a reel, but the lower gearing will allow greater torque; and therefore, tighter tension.
Something to consider.
Bryan
Bryan,
I thought of that. The larger Ryobi reel is not full. I will spool the new 65 lb line on the ryobi first and then spool it onto the omoto under appropriate tension. If I would not have a spare reel I would not know how to do it but I think it will work this way.
I did this procedure yesterday evening with my Omoto VS 10. First wind the line on the large ryobi from the VS 10 under strike drag setting. After that set the drag of the large Ryobi to 10 pounds (which is not even full drag for the VS10) and spool the line onto the omoto VS 10 again. With slightly less than 400 meters this is quite a job and I was sweating like an ox. The ryoby was too hot to touch when I was done (and I was too :))
I learned two things: spooling the Omoto Q16 with something like 25 pounds will be a task I don't look forward to and secondly: the Ryobi cannot even take a slow run of 400 meters (with stops to catch a breath) without getting hot. I will not use it for anything else than spooling other reels. It is definitely outdated for big game fish.
This guy is not looking forward to spool the Q16 with 600 meters under 25 pounds of drag.
I definitely are not going to purchase a Q80/penn 130/tiagra 130 or anything similar. I cannot handle the drag anyway :P . I think a modern 50 size reel nowadays gives you more drag than you can handle (most give in excess of 50 pounds)
How do you guys take so much drag when wheeling in big fish
Edit: I realize that winding against the strike drag for the complete length of the line might not be a normal fishing situation (except maybe with a tuna that is way too big for the gear)
Quote from: Reinaard van der Vossen on May 06, 2011, 06:03:39 PM
How do you guys take so much drag when wheeling in big fish
Edit: I realize that winding against the strike drag for the complete length of the line might not be a normal fishing situation (except maybe with a tuna that is way too big for the gear)
Reinaard,
For our Southern California long range (stand up style) fishing for big cow sized tuna most use a 50 sized reel with spectra as backing and mono or flouro topshots of 75 feet in length or in most cases shorter. These reels are hardly ever set as high 40lbs of drag at strike and somewhere between 25-35lbs is more typical even when using heavier topshots like 200lb.
I do the same thing since the local tackle shops around me seems to really dislike putting the required pressure. Everytime i spool with spectra the family thinks i'm pretend fishing because I do the same thing. Place the spectra in a reel with tension from a family member and re-spool with heavy tension. The 2 inch pipe is burried deep in the ground and use as the holder. My hardest one so far is spooling 500 yards of 80#, darn thing took me about an hour and a pint of sweat. A kolekar handle would have alleviate some wrist pain.
that's the whole point!
I hear ya on the spooling. I'm still looking for a good, used, geared motor that will spin at higher torque to spool reels with spectra. It may take an hour, but it could be wound on tight. Unfortunately, most geared motors I have found have 60 or less RPMs (which would take hours to spool a reel. I am looking for one that is at least 300 RPMs.
Bryan,
Would a electric starter for a motorcycle do the job? Plenty of torque depending on the size of the starter.
Look at the electric reels foor deep drop fishing, for the larger reels approx 300 watts power is sufficient. If the speed is too then you can go for a comparable motorcycle/lawnmower starter if youré in for a cost efficient solution.
I think that the difficulty will be how to proper connect the spool with that amounts of torque.
electric downrigger,some of them can lift a 15lb ball?
Quote from: Reinaard van der Vossen on May 12, 2011, 08:40:21 PM
Bryan,
Would a electric starter for a motorcycle do the job? Plenty of torque depending on the size of the starter.
Look at the electric reels foor deep drop fishing, for the larger reels approx 300 watts power is sufficient. If the speed is too then you can go for a comparable motorcycle/lawnmower starter if youré in for a cost efficient solution.
I think that the difficulty will be how to proper connect the spool with that amounts of torque.
Considered starter motors, but they are not continuous duty motor, and will burn out before the first eeel is spooled. Found a geared motor, 350 W, 120/240 V, geared reduced to operate at 120 RPMs. I was about to purchase it to try it out, but I spaced, and forgot about it until today, and it was gone.
Quote from: wallacewt on May 13, 2011, 12:32:24 AM
electric downrigger,some of them can lift a 15lb ball?
One of my friends uses his Scotty's with 25# downrigger balls.v
Bryan,
You're correct that a starter is not for continuous use. However, they use them in the 100kg and up fighting robots for robot wars and they keep up way longer as expected if you don't have to crank-up an engine. Example of one with 2 starters although they changed the design later (http://www.easytreasure.co.uk/robots.htm)
The motors in the deep drop electric reels look like starters although I'm not sure of that and some of them have over 50 LB pull with reasonable speed.
On the other hand the construction might be more of a challenge. I was thinking of an old column drill with pully's and a belt to change speeds. Often they can go low rpm (275 rpm etc) and the drilling head is very sturdy. You could probably fix the axis of your spool much easier and fix the housing of the reel much easier on the "table" You can also use the column to fix the reel wihich will be giving the line under pressure.
I mean something like this: http://www.epple.co.uk/drilling-machines-c-1.html but you can often buy very good old machines at a scrap price
Now how did we get from a cute little Omoto reel to robot wars and column drilling machines ;D
Yesterday I've spooled new fishing line on the Omoto Q16. I've ordered and received a spool of 500 Yards 65 LB Hi vis yellow powerpro line. Now I do not think that this reel needs a line as strong as 65 lb, I think something like 30-40lb line might be enough but the lines are so thin that you can get into trouble with the line burying in the spool at high drags.
I've spooled a base of 80 yards Penn 65 lb mono (0,65 mm) and the powerpro braid on top of that. It was my intention to spool the line under 20-25 lb of drag as the reel can do something like 30 lb at full drag (or maybe even 40 lb as some claim).
As I spool the new line under drag BY HAND it soon became clear that this was and extreme task and I had to adjust my wishes. I reduced the drag to 15 lb and could only use the low gearing.
It took some sweat before finalizing but I managed and the whole 500 yards of braid fitted on the reel easily. There is still room for a smal mono topshot as well. I'm surprised on how much line you can get onto the reel under drag.
Now: I have an 16 lb class reel with an 65 lb fishing line and a 50 lb rod and although I would say that the rod (Penn overseas boat travel 50LB) is not " really" a 50 lb rod I'm wondering whether I have a setup wich is less balanced as could be.
I used to think that th e 3-3-3 rule was a good starting point where the line should have a breaking strength 3 times as big as the possible drag and you could catch fish upto three times the breaking strength of the line but that now slow seems to be old fashioned and a rough order of magnitude rule that no longer applies with the modern stuff.
Quote from: Reinaard van der Vossen on May 13, 2011, 01:05:22 PM
Bryan,
You're correct that a starter is not for continuous use. However, they use them in the 100kg and up fighting robots for robot wars and they keep up way longer as expected if you don't have to crank-up an engine. Example of one with 2 starters although they changed the design later (http://www.easytreasure.co.uk/robots.htm)
The motors in the deep drop electric reels look like starters although I'm not sure of that and some of them have over 50 LB pull with reasonable speed.
On the other hand the construction might be more of a challenge. I was thinking of an old column drill with pully's and a belt to change speeds. Often they can go low rpm (275 rpm etc) and the drilling head is very sturdy. You could probably fix the axis of your spool much easier and fix the housing of the reel much easier on the "table" You can also use the column to fix the reel wihich will be giving the line under pressure.
I mean something like this: http://www.epple.co.uk/drilling-machines-c-1.html but you can often buy very good old machines at a scrap price
Now how did we get from a cute little Omoto reel to robot wars and column drilling machines ;D
we're gonna get even further away my friend.
I have used starter motors to power bar stools for drag racing in the past (yes we really are that sad in England), now if they can send a lump like me, down a standing 1/4 mile, they should be OK for spooling.
Reinaard, if you're looking for reasonably priced braid, you could do worse than check out eBay seller luckydolphin168 - I and a number of other UK anglers have ordered from him and had no problems whatsoever. His braid ain't the thinnest around but at his prices no one cries if you have to cut it off.
@codhead,
I've spooled the 6 strand version of Li-ma braid on the Omoto VS10. They are not all equal, the 20# was ok but the 30# and 40# were very ropy and sometimes inconsistent. I've taken the 40# just of the Omoto Q16 and replaced it by powepro
Reinaard, if you're looking for reasonably priced braid, you could do worse than check out eBay seller luckydolphin168 - I and a number of other UK anglers have ordered from him and had no problems whatsoever. His braid ain't the thinnest around but at his prices no one cries if you have to cut it off.
[/quote]
Codhead, have you any experience of luckydolphin's 6 or 8 strand Dyneema Braids? I have only seen their 4 strand and as a long time user of Dynon Dyneema (6 strands but 4 times the price of the Chinese Dyneema) I was considering giving it a try. BTW their 4 strand looked ok although I would prefer a 6 strand braid.
Quote from: Irish Jigger on June 01, 2011, 07:12:12 PM
Codhead, have you any experience of luckydolphin's 6 or 8 strand Dyneema Braids? I have only seen their 4 strand and as a long time user of Dynon Dyneema (6 strands but 4 times the price of the Chinese Dyneema) I was considering giving it a try. BTW their 4 strand looked ok although I would prefer a 6 strand braid.
I haven't I'm afraid, I wasn't even aware that he was offering 6 or 8 strand. But at his prices, it's surely worth taking a chance. Many of the professional rod & line bass fishermen down my way are using his line and swear by it
You can also check the site of "Paulus just fishing" as he has tested hundred of braids. Usually the strength is ok but the thicknes is nowwhere near the stated thickness. Nevertheless a good site with usefull info
Quote from: Reinaard van der Vossen on June 01, 2011, 10:48:07 PM
You can also check the site of "Paulus just fishing" as he has tested hundred of braids. Usually the strength is ok but the thicknes is nowwhere near the stated thickness. Nevertheless a good site with usefull info
Great site that Reinaard, good info on knot strengths too. Where did you source the Li-ma 6 strand 40lb Dyneema ?
6 strand li-ma branded braid: http://shop.ebay.nl/fishingshopworld/m.html?_trksid=p4340.l2562
Or this on: http://cgi.ebay.nl/New-Dyneema-braided-fishing-line-Spool-300M-40LBS-R-6S-/260749657176?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cb5e40458
According to Paulus the 40 lb was not particularly good but still had a breaking strength of 53 lb
Now, is there anyone with comments to the setup of the Omoto Q16 as the reel is spooled with 65 lb braid and with a 50 lb rod. If I read this sentence as a stand alone fact than I would say that I would need a stronger reel but because the reel can take 30# of drag and the rod will be already at a max with something like 25# it might just work fine.
Reinaard,thank you for the links.
Well, I'm back. I can't tell you how the reel performed because I didn't use it. We have not been ground fishing but only been trolling for the good stuff and the smallest reel used on board are 50W Tiagra's. Most of the stuff was 130 Tiagra's (6 of those).
Not without luck but you can see that in the fishing report.
I need a bigger reel and I need a bigger boat
Quote from: Reinaard van der Vossen on June 15, 2011, 06:49:05 PM
I need a bigger reel and I need a bigger boat
Don't we all? ;D Dominick
A long, long time ago I started this topic.
Now, after a couple a years and a couple of fishing trips it was time to do some maintenance and as the reel was open I did shoot some pictures. Not a comprehensive extended report as Alan does but still usefull to those who own or want one.
The reel, although marked as `16` is not comparable woth a penn 16 VSW or something. This reel weighs 790 gram and a Penn 16 weighs 1162 grams.
I have turned the drag to 14 kg (tested with a shimano drag tester) and the reel is probably capable of more. with the 14 kg drag you can feel some binding of the reel and the range of the drag is not that large. I never fished it at this setting. Ussually I fished it at 7-9 kg at strike and 11-12 at full. The range is better than and I think that it is more in line with the reel size.
The largest fish on this reel was an AJ of about 12 kg. Although it did its best and fought hard it was not really a match and the reel could handle this with ease. I have no 60-80 yards of 65 lb mono and 500 yrds of 65 lb powerpro on the reel and than there is room for a small topshot or longer leader. The 65 lb powerpro is not necessary. I used to have 40-50 lb but this was digging in the spool too much.
As the reel was with me on 3 (short) fishing trips i wanted to open the reel and take a look at the bearings. They looked fine with no rust
(http://home.wxs.nl/~werve040/omoto4.JPG)
(http://home.wxs.nl/~werve040/omoto5.JPG)
(http://home.wxs.nl/~werve040/omoto6.JPG)
(http://home.wxs.nl/~werve040/omoto7.JPG)
(http://home.wxs.nl/~werve040/omoto8.JPG)
(http://home.wxs.nl/~werve040/omoto9.JPG)
very simple and very clean. i like it!
Feedback:
I love the reel. I hate the rod where its was on.
As you all know very well mediterranean blufin tuna do not bite on rapala's and alike and certainly not when trolled on mono. We were trolling for albacores and skipjacks or maybe an incidental mediterranean spearfish or perhaps an early dorado. So this light tackle was out, far behind the boat in the shotgun position.
With light I mean that I have tied this little size 16 real (and it is much lighter than a penn 16) to a 50 lb penn overseas pro travel rod.
As mentioned in earlier post I have 65 lb powerpro on it. Not because I need it but because I can still get more than 500 meters on it and it doesnt dig into the spool that easily. Because of the expected fish the drag was set at approx 7-8 lb
So we got a bite. It was not a skippy or an albacore and after a couple of seconds we could rule out almost all species apart from submarines on steroids and blufin. The reel was screeming at an incredible high pitch and my angling companion took the rod when I grabbed the belt to put it on him. The captain started shouting that we should go to the front of the boat to enable a high speed pursuit. So we did. I was sitting down on the frontdeck while my fishing partner was standing up and I hold him by the belt while the 800 horses beneath started roaring to follow the fish. Whe had an epic fight, got almost spooled, won line back and have been around the boat on al sides while trying to maintain stability (more or less) in quite a swell.
After 15 minutes we decided to give it more drag as the real could take much more and the line should be fine with 65 lb. (both spectra and topshot, leader was 80 or 100lb) I did not had the feeling that we were pushing it too hard but as a matter of fact the weakest link broke
Unfortunately and with a huge snap the rod broke. and then the line snapped as well as the top end hit the gunwall.
The reel was not even hot.
I measured the drag after comming home (i have been carefull not to change the presets etc) and the drag was something like 18-19 lb with approximate hal of the reel still spooled.
I need a faster boat and a better rod :) ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Don't you just love by catch like that? Dominick
the one that got away
I bet the adrenalin was pumping
thats why they call it fishing
not catching
;D
I think this reel needs a modern jigging type rod with a parobolic action (bends right through the foregrip)
most the traditional game rods are designed for stretchy mono
there are others here that Know more
better luck Next time
Jon
1st time ive seen this,i think
dont you just love them spring loaded dogs
like to see dogs+ratchet together
cheers
Dominick, yeah I love that kind of bycatch but I would have loved to catch it :)
It was adrenalin pure. Epic fight as long as it lasted. I don't know how large the fish was but it should not have been broken with the drags used .
I have the rod delivered to the shop maybe there is some guarantee.
Nevertheless, I will be looking for a new rod. Maybe a pinnacle marine 20 - 50 lbs or a selfbuild on a nice high pe rating jigging blank.
I think most reels in this size would have had troubles with this kind of runs, apart from the top reels maybe. It was a good buy at least ;)
I opened up the reel and unfortunately must say that I have found some damage to a plastic part, probably due to heat build up.
It looks like the black plastic cover over the drag plate has seen too much heat. I will post pictures later.
The reel was not hot on the outside but it looks like this black plastic cover contains the heat that is generated by the drag plate.
THe dragplate itself looks fine and is not blue or brown or shows any signs of being hetate too much, just the plastic cover. All other parts seem fine too.
Ok, so a little 16 size reel should maybe not be the first choice for big bluefins who take more than 400 meters of line off the spool several times ;D
.
Gee, I think I could have guessed that. Still I think we could have taken the fish if the rod did'n break.
by the way: The broken rod is replaced by Penn. Not the same rod, I now got a penn rampage 30-50 in travel form. I think I will pair the penn rod with a different reel and go for a higher quality rod for this reel
Pictures of the plastic cover, drag plate and carbon drag disc
The drag plate and carbon disc seem fine. The drag plate does not seem to be overheated. The drag functioned fine up to the moment where the rod and the line broke.
That is different for the plastic cover. It looks like this one did get too much heat. It doesnt fit very well anymore either
(http://home.wxs.nl/~werve040/omoto10.JPG)
(http://home.wxs.nl/~werve040/omoto11.JPG)
(http://home.wxs.nl/~werve040/omoto12.JPG)
(http://home.wxs.nl/~werve040/omoto13.JPG)
(http://home.wxs.nl/~werve040/omoto14.JPG)
(http://home.wxs.nl/~werve040/omoto15.JPG)
I will try to order a new cover and have asked Omoto Taiwan if there is a dealer in Europe
I use the Triangle HD-140 heavy duty line winder in my shop. It will spool the 8 strand braid I buy online with enough tension for our Gulf of Mexico fishing. I have to stop for a while and take a break b/c that is a lot of tension even using the electric line winder.