I am new to this... being from a beach town I have been fishing all my life and I still use the same reels I grew up with but I am sure I am have been just doing what I need to keep them fishable all these years and my background is a tech guy who tinkers and collects and breathes everything fishing.
I have been taking some of my dad's old reels and getting them working again but they are all spinning reels and while doing this I came across this forum and I was hooked. So I went out this weekend to an estate sale and found a dude that has a ton of old reels so I bought three for like 20 bucks and I am going to learn on the fly. With my impatient wrecking ball style I will likely get laughed at and ruin 1 or 2 of these but I plan on learning as much as I can for the next round.
The three I picked up were a Pflueger Capitol 1988, Penn No 180. and an Abu Ambassador 5500 C3.
My goal is to make em look half way decent and make it FISHABLE, catch at least at least 3 fish with it and then put it on the shelf and move to the next one. I think I can lie my way out of one of those.
I have already started with the Pflueger and have obviously made my first mistake.
I started by breaking down all of the parts and separating anything that had hard plastic on it. Soaked them in Simple green overnight then cleaned them off and started to clean them with a toothbrush. After that I soaked them in vinegar for about 5 hours and started to clean them some more with a toothbrush.
Now I have heard jokes about people taking the chrome off of trailer hitches doing unspeakable things but I never thought somehow I could be wrapped up in that joke, but now I question everything and subsequently I have what appears to be a mostly solid brass Pflueger Capitol plate.
I also cant seem to remove the tension washer so that I can replace the drag washers. I don't want to force it off. Does anyone know if there is a trick?
Now I know I few things I really don't know but would like to and I need to ask a few questions and slow my roll.
I know I don't know how to recognize different metals. Is it nickel plated, chrome plated, aluminum and etc. I think this is important because maybe I mixed some metals that I should not have and that may have caused my issue.
I also know that I don't need to soak things over night. I have started looking into an electrolysis bath so I can do it quickly.
But do you guys think I blew it with the simple green soak or mixing metals in the soak?
I would think it's still fishable but what should I do to the coating to ensure its has some durability. I think my brother in law does chrome plating in his body shop. Could I do that and still keep the etched label in the reel?
Any idea what year this reel is from? Would like to try and get an add for it or an original manual.
i didnt take great before pics but I have some.
I'm not the one who can help you with that reel but I want to compliment you on your photo display.
Good work!
I'm not the one who can help you with that reel but I want to compliment you on your photo display.
Good work!
X2.
But I think in your bottom photo, it looks like the gear is damaged--at least to my old eyes. ;) We have lots of talented guys here who will offer you their advice.
TomT
clg003: I have a Pfluger Capital 1988 that I serviced some time ago and took pictures and posted them here, If I knew how to get you over to that post from here I wood. But if you do a search here on the pflueger Reel you will find some information. Looking at the last photo you have of the gear sleeve and main gear to me it looks like it needs a good cleaning with WD-40 and then you should be able to disassemble those parts to get to the drag stack. Fred (folks) on site has one that he was sending to me that he had completely re-furbished. PM him and he can send you photos of what he had done, but also you can do the search here as I mentioned on the Pflueger as well.
Joe
Here it is Joe.
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=14895.0
Quote from: Reel 224 on September 01, 2015, 03:25:50 AM
clg003: I have a Pfluger Capital 1988 that I serviced some time ago and took pictures and posted them here, If I knew how to get you over to that post from here I wood. But if you do a search here on the pflueger Reel you will find some information. Looking at the last photo you have of the gear sleeve and main gear to me it looks like it needs a good cleaning with WD-40 and then you should be able to disassemble those parts to get to the drag stack. Fred (folks) on site has one that he was sending to me that he had completely re-furbished. PM him and he can send you photos of what he had done, but also you can do the search here as I mentioned on the Pflueger as well.
Joe
I saw your reel Joe it was pretty awesome. How did you get that finish on it? You said you jeweled it. I have no idea what that even means but that finish was nice. its looking like I will have to settle on this brass finish.
Here is a pic of the gear after a soak and some tooth brush action. Still going to brush it some more because that top washer will not move past the last lip.
Really more worried about what mistake I made to take the nickel (guess) plating off.
Do you guys get these things resurfaced, plated?
Quote from: clg003 on September 01, 2015, 08:24:34 PM
Here is a pic of the gear after a soak and some tooth brush action. Still going to brush it some more because that top washer will not move past the last lip.
Really more worried about what mistake I made to take the nickel (guess) plating off.
Do you guys get these things resurfaced, plated?
That gear and drag stack is looking much better, you may find that no matter what you do those drag washers will be hard to remove...you may have to screw them off like a nut but they will come off. I got drag washers from Dawn at Smooth Drag that were close to that size and just used sand paper to take them down to size.
Jeweling is done with a small wire brush on a dremel in this case with compound. If you would like to have your reel done like mine you can PM me and Ill give you my address so you can send the parts and Ill do it for you.
Joe
The top lip has been mashed down from pressure when the handle is installed. You can file it just a bit so the washers will slide off easily.
Quote from: Reel 224 on September 01, 2015, 10:34:38 PM
Quote from: clg003 on September 01, 2015, 08:24:34 PM
Here is a pic of the gear after a soak and some tooth brush action. Still going to brush it some more because that top washer will not move past the last lip.
Really more worried about what mistake I made to take the nickel (guess) plating off.
Do you guys get these things resurfaced, plated?
That gear and drag stack is looking much better, you may find that no matter what you do those drag washers will be hard to remove...you may have to screw them off like a nut but they will come off. I got drag washers from Dawn at Smooth Drag that were close to that size and just used sand paper to take them down to size.
Jeweling is done with a small wire brush on a dremel in this case with compound. If you would like to have your reel done like mine you can PM me and Ill give you my address so you can send the parts and Ill do it for you.
Joe
Joe any thoughts on what I did to take the plating off? Have you ever had a reel plated? My worry is the plating would fill in the engraved capitol label. I dont think I could jewel this thing with the brass showing like that.
Quote from: handi2 on September 01, 2015, 11:06:41 PM
The top lip has been mashed down from pressure when the handle is installed. You can file it just a bit so the washers will slide off easily.
That makes sense it does seem like one of the corners is mashed a little bit.
Worked and Thanks
Well two things one the Jeweling will cover all of the damage to the old finish, that is why I did that to my reel. Most likely the material you used caused the finish to come off as well as the electrolysis from the salt water over the years. Using a thread chaser on the threads of the gear sleeve will help, If you can get one or have one.
I really don't know anything about electroplating, but I don't think it would cover the lettering on the reel plate. The simplest way of doing something to improve the look of the mettle would be Jeweling. But if you are looking to restore it to it's original look then plating will be the answer. There are guys here that are much more knowledgeable about that sort of restoration then I am, maybe one of them can help if they chime in here. Keep in mind that electroplating is an expensive process and that reel isn't a collectors piece.
Joe
It will be after you work some Jeweling magic on it Joe. ;)
You better take him up on that offer clg. ;D
That is what its all about here. Paying it forward. :)
What you are doing here, Cig -- is getting some good hands on experience cleaning, restoring to a usable condition, and understanding the process.
Two things to ask yourself? -- and you must be brutally honest with yourself. No one else needs to know the answer -- is this reel ever going to be a showpiece, restored back to original? Or is it going to be a less than pristine looking reel -- but mechanically and operationally 100%?
If it were mine, I would likely do a really thorough cleaning job, install new CF drags greased with Cal's, flat lap the metal drag washers to glass smoothness, install a new under gear washer -- put it all back together, oiled and greased -- install line, and fish it. The fish don't care if it is shiny or not -- and it would cost much more than may be sensible to replate it -- and may not turn out that well anyway.
You are starting down a little used path -- one that few even know exists -- reel repair and maintenance.
If you intend to get as much experience under your belt as possible -- you will need to evaluate every reel based on its merits and possibilities, your time and effort, and what form the finished project may take.
Sometimes it is quicker and easier that way -- and you won't get hung up and discouraged on one project.
Part of what you are doing is learning to manage your time, expenditures, experience gained -- against the potential finished project.
There are enough very experienced folks on Alan's site -- to give you a professional education in just a few months.
You will learn a little from each one of the veterans -- then you will develop your style and arsenal of knowledge based on your own common sense, your comfort level, and your passion.
And then others will learn from you.
Just my opinions.
Best,
Fred
Quote from: foakes on September 02, 2015, 05:25:36 AM
What you are doing here, Cig -- is getting some good hands on experience cleaning, restoring to a usable condition, and understanding the process.
Two things to ask yourself? -- and you must be brutally honest with yourself. No one else needs to know the answer -- is this reel ever going to be a showpiece, restored back to original? Or is it going to be a less than pristine looking reel -- but mechanically and operationally 100%?
If it were mine, I would likely do a really thorough cleaning job, install new CF drags greased with Cal's, flat lap the metal drag washers to glass smoothness, install a new under gear washer -- put it all back together, oiled and greased -- install line, and fish it. The fish don't care if it is shiny or not -- and it would cost much more than may be sensible to replate it -- and may not turn out that well anyway.
You are starting down a little used path -- one that few even know exists -- reel repair and maintenance.
If you intend to get as much experience under your belt as possible -- you will need to evaluate every reel based on its merits and possibilities, your time and effort, and what form the finished project may take.
Sometimes it is quicker and easier that way -- and you won't get hung up and discouraged on one project.
Part of what you are doing is learning to manage your time, expenditures, experience gained -- against the potential finished project.
There are enough very experienced folks on Alan's site -- to give you a professional education in just a few months.
You will learn a little from each one of the veterans -- then you will develop your style and arsenal of knowledge based on your own common sense, your comfort level, and your passion.
And then others will learn from you.
Just my opinions.
Best,
Fred
This is the best advice you will ever get, take my word for it. Fred has mentored me on how to approach a project as well and it was great advice. Fred also mentions the opportunities that are here for you to have others of his level of expertise help you, by all means take advantage of that.
Joe
While it is my first Pflueger and my first restore of this type, my goal is to learn how to do it right. Making it fishable will be a product of that.
If this was a collectors piece... I would like to have the confidence to take it on, but right now I am a little worried about moving to the next one until I know what messed it up and what it will take to correct it. Right now I am assuming I kept it in the green to long or the vinegar to long. Wish I knew for sure but that's all i got now.
I have ordered new cf drags and smooth out the washers and have the teeth on the gear looking pretty clean and smooth. I also cleaned the heck out of everything else.
Now i am going to work on polishing the side plate, spool and star.
Joe's generous jeweling offer got me researching it and now I am going to have to figure that out as well. Joe I am going to PM you for some info.
Thanks Brothers.
Joe one other question for you if you don't mind.
Do you know what this piece is? It feel out when I opened her up and I have no idea where it goes. Its very brittle so I dont think its a spring of any sort.
Quote from: clg003 on September 03, 2015, 10:07:36 PM
Joe one other question for you if you don't mind.
Do you know what this piece is? It feel out when I opened her up and I have no idea where it goes. Its very brittle so I dont think its a spring of any sort.
That looks like the dog spring but I'm not sure, Ill have to pull my reel apart to check. Okay I found it on a schematic. It"s the cam spring, That is part of the free spool yoke system. It looks like it puts pressure on the pinion and yoke.
I hate to sound like a arm chair QB but you should take pictures of what you are doing...a picture is worth a thousands words ;D I hope I was of some help and if you still have problems Fred (Folks) can help you with the assembly. I'm not ducking you, it's just that I'm going to be off site for a while.
Joe
Thanks for the info...
I do take pictures, print them and label them but this piece appeared to be loose from the time I opened it up.
Hello Your washer is somewhar cocked , tap it with something ( screwdriver handle ) to straighten loosen it . Try holding gear and twisting and unscrewing with other hand , or pulling straight and rocking the washer slightly back and forth . You may have to worry it quite a bit.
These techniques have worked .
Cig....it's been my experience Simple Green is a great de-greaser, but doesnt attack metals, plating or plastics, but vinegar is acidic and will do a number on any metal or plated piece ( acid etching)...that being said an overnight soak in vinegar is probably the culprit in the loss of chrome plating.....a vinegar soak work well for brass but not too good for chrome or aluminum...also AGGRESSIVE brushing with an abrasive and tooth brush can have bad results.....also a long soak in an ultrasonic bath will destroy an anodized aluminum coating......we live and learn...sometimes the hard way....but it is all knowledge and learning is part of the fun....good luck brother.....Bill
Hi cig --
Joe is correct -- it is a dog spring for the anti reverse ratchet.
Here is how it goes in -- along with the proper orientation.
Best,
Fred
(http://i748.photobucket.com/albums/xx130/foakes1/CFDA5396-ADB2-4537-8204-4D96E142E65D_zpsuuoegrxj.jpg) (http://s748.photobucket.com/user/foakes1/media/CFDA5396-ADB2-4537-8204-4D96E142E65D_zpsuuoegrxj.jpg.html)
Thanks for the great advice guys.
One down and on to my penn 180.
Still might chrome or nickel plate that face plate.
Nice work, cig --
Best,
Fred
Very nice clean up! The Pfleuger is safe enough...not much in the way of mods for it. HOWEVER, please be advised that there is a wormhole associated with pulling down the 180...you'll want to replace the drags...get a larger handle....Tiburon makes a frame for it...I suspect there are SS gears and gear sleeve....aluminum spool, etc. 8)
Nice little reel, I have several.
John
Anyone know how to determine how old reels are?
I would think this Plueger is from the 50s
I think this Penn 180 is fairly old as well and has some lighthouse scene on side plate.
Hey cig --
Capitol is likely 50s -- although it was made for a long stretch.
On the 180 --
If it were me, I would invest in this book, by one of our members. It is the Bible for Penn Reels. Along with a subsequent companion book.
There is so much information in these books -- it may give you a couple of new ways to look at, restore, and collect certain Penns.
You will not be sorry --
The Chronological History of Penn Reels, by Michael Cacioppo.
Check with Mike, or Whitefish Press, or Amazon.
Best,
Fred
I was impressed that the reel had a helical cut gear. That must of been a big deal back in the 50's.