Reel Repair by Alan Tani

Hi

I am thinking of buying a rod for throwing topwater lures from shore. Target species being 10 Kilo and up Kingfish (Yellow tail Amberjacks)
In NZ there is a shortage of rods for OH reels in this category

I am focussed on an 8 - 9 foot 2 piece rod. Split butt. setup for OH. that can cast up to 6oz sweetly, has a softish tip and is reasonably light.
It will pair with an NACL 50 for now.

I believe a good option may be found in the Musky rod offerings with the Tackle Industries 9 foot mag heavy being a good example.


Issues I see are that the components are designed for FW use and may corrode more than a rod designed for SW . Of some concern but manageable.
However, I don't know how musky fight and/or what makes a good musky rod from hands on experience.
I'm hoping that someone here might be able to translate the type of action I could expect from a musky rod into words.
It wont be much but it might help me make a decision.

Landed, the TI rod will be around 380 NZD incl shipping.(Plus a potential 15% tax increase at customs)
A custom rod made in NZ will start at ~400NZD for the blank so the thought of the TI or whatever rod is attractive - If the action is suitable.

I have refrained from asking at a Musky site as I assume they will have negligible SW experience and hope that someone here will have enough crossover experience to be able to comment.

If not, Then thanks anyway.

Musky rods are very stiff graphite rods for casting heavy lures and fighting musky in shallow waters mostly. I bought an expensive St Croix Musky/Saltwater blank rated 50-100 line rating. I built it to snapper fish. I called the customer tech service and asked about drag settings and they said 28 max was used by musky guys. I set my drag at 20 lb and the rod lasted about 5 seconds on a big snapper and snapped 3 inches from the fore grip.

If fishing saltwater then get a saltwater rod and no half breed.

Appreciate you sharing your experience NN

The thing is that the Topwater guys suggested a Barramundi rod from Australia (Generally too short) or a Muskie rod.

If anyone has a better experience than NN I would appreciate hearing it.

I may have to build a rod but if I can avoid it I would be much happier

I have a Compre musky 7 ft spinning rod that Shimano sent me to replace another out of production rod under warranty. I only fish salt water, but this musky rod is too heavy for the inshore fish that I mostly target. However, I've taken it out on reef trips here in Florida, and hooked some big amberjacks among other critters, and it's handled them superbly! I've no idea how a musky fights, but I seriously doubt they have anywhere near the power of an AJ.

As for corrosion, it's never been an issue. I wash it down just like all my rods after each trip. It has a tungsten carbide tip (which I read should always be rinsed off.) But that tip is a nice touch too, because it's metal and takes much more abuse than any ceramic. It's also a super-hard metal that can take braid line.

So, as for me, a musky rod has worked out great in the brine.

What you want are one of the heavier versions of a Phenix M1 Inshore or Okuma Shadow Stalker or one of the heavier Cousins rods . They are salt rods rated to throw up to 8oz lures...you should find one them like the Phenix M1 SMX 90H will do the trick on King Fish on the surface.

Have caught both yellowtail kingfish and musky.   No comparison.   I have caught musky only on the fly.   A spectacular grab, and then hand-line them in, even the big models.     A bit of splashing, maybe a short burst or two to cover and then it is all over.  As you know, a decent sized kingie might empty that reel of yours with a drag setting of 15 lbs.

You might consider looking at what the east coast USA surf fisherman use for striped bass rods with conventional reels like yours.  I  think they do a bit of big surface plug casting.  Stripers are a saltwater inshore species that pull reasonably hard, and frequently will surpass 10 kilos.

I have really nice experiences on using musky Rods on saltwater.
In my case Im using a Gander mountain musky rod 7.6'. 20-40 rod, paired with a Calcutta 400TE reel, which both were the ultimate musky combo few years ago.
Here is a Picture on a nice spanish mackerel (Sierra) of 16#. Rod performance was excellent and Im sure it can handle heavier fishes (http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa198/alextellofotos/fishing/P1030005ss_zps1a5e2afa.jpg) (http://s202.photobucket.com/user/alextellofotos/media/fishing/P1030005ss_zps1a5e2afa.jpg.html)

I dont know the fish you are after but I say go for it
(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa198/alextellofotos/fishing/P1030015ss_zps786510cc.jpg) (http://s202.photobucket.com/user/alextellofotos/media/fishing/P1030015ss_zps786510cc.jpg.html)

Quote from: steelfish on September 15, 2015, 11:03:20 PM
I have really nice experiences on using musky Rods on saltwater.
In my case Im using a Gander mountain musky rod 7.6'. 20-40 rod, paired with a Calcutta 400TE reel, which both were the ultimate musky combo few years ago.
Here is a Picture on a nice spanish mackerel (Sierra) of 16#. Rod performance was excellent and Im sure it can handle heavier fishes (http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa198/alextellofotos/fishing/P1030005ss_zps1a5e2afa.jpg) (http://s202.photobucket.com/user/alextellofotos/media/fishing/P1030005ss_zps1a5e2afa.jpg.html)

I dont know the fish you are after but I say go for it
(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa198/alextellofotos/fishing/P1030015ss_zps786510cc.jpg) (http://s202.photobucket.com/user/alextellofotos/media/fishing/P1030015ss_zps786510cc.jpg.html)

"Kingfish" are the same as Yellowtail in Baja. Except in New Zealand they can run to 100#. 50# is a common catch :).

Well thats different LOL

But well the OP esa asking for references.. My experience with those on my fisheries is Bernanke always good

All good suggestions guys, Keep em coming...
The suggestions so far are all 1 piece which is going to be nearly impossible to ship to NZ

Seems the Muskie rods may be a little heavy for prolonged casting sessions but research continues

Quote from: jaypeegee on September 16, 2015, 01:33:40 AM
All good suggestions guys, Keep em coming...
The suggestions so far are all 1 piece which is going to be nearly impossible to ship to NZ

Seems the Muskie rods may be a little heavy for prolonged casting sessions but research continues

I have one of the new Abu Garcia rods that is a 2-piece with the ferrule at the top of the foregrip. It's rated to cast 4-10oz.

It's a "Fantasista Beast" F88-7...listed at 12.3 oz, 40-60lb line....hope to use it in the net few weeks....

http://www.abugarcia.com/abugarcia-rods-casting-rods/1373580.html#start=3

Hi Jaypeegee

What you are looking for is a bit of a beast of a casting rod – as casting 6oz lures is heavy weight class by anyone's standards.

We have built a few as special order for some customers in Australia, and basically had to get a hybrid blank to do the job properly; as what you are looking for is basically 2/3rds of a powerful surf rod – something about 9' long, but obviously 2 piece. The problem with just taking the top 2/3rd of a 3 piece surf rod, is that what now becomes the butt  section is a little too flexible, and needs beefing up with extra wraps of carbon. The other issue with casting, is that single handed casting with a 6oz lure is not going to work, you do need to start looking at a double hander.

That was the route we went, and it worked. The problem wasn't ultimately the casting aspect – but the sheer power of the big fish when hooked and brought close to the rock platforms. That's when it becomes a seriously 'brutal' fight, and the rod really needs somme 'lock up' power for the final stages of the fight.

The biggest problem you are going to have over our Australian clients, is that the import duties and restrictions into New Zealand are very penalising; they enjoy a $1000 import free limit.

Perhaps look at some of the local high carbon surf rod blanks as options?

Cheers from sunny Africa


Jeri

Quote from: jurelometer on September 15, 2015, 10:55:23 PMHave caught both yellowtail kingfish and musky.   No comparison.   I have caught musky only on the fly.   A spectacular grab, and then hand-line them in, even the big models.     A bit of splashing, maybe a short burst or two to cover and then it is all over.

Really? How disappointing.  :(  Catching a big musky has been on my bucket list for a while, but now I'm not so sure, lol.

You may want to check into some "Travel Rods" as they do make some 9' rods. The travel rods break down to something like 4 or 5 pieces and most come with a case. Shipping wise that would be a good way to go.

Quote from: nelz on September 16, 2015, 03:15:08 AM

Quote from: jurelometer on September 15, 2015, 10:55:23 PMHave caught both yellowtail kingfish and musky.   No comparison.   I have caught musky only on the fly.   A spectacular grab, and then hand-line them in, even the big models.     A bit of splashing, maybe a short burst or two to cover and then it is all over.

Really? How disappointing.  :(  Catching a big musky has been on my bucket list for a while, but now I'm not so sure, lol.

Do it on 1lb line
problem solved
:-)

Quote from: johndtuttle on September 16, 2015, 02:36:04 AM

I have one of the new Abu Garcia rods that is a 2-piece with the ferrule at the top of the foregrip. It's rated to cast 4-10oz.

It's a "Fantasista Beast" F88-7...listed at 12.3 oz, 40-60lb line....hope to use it in the net few weeks....

http://www.abugarcia.com/abugarcia-rods-casting-rods/1373580.html#start=3

Appreciate the suggestion. Dollars getting up there given the NZD has tanked. But will look at that some more.

Quote from: Jeri on September 16, 2015, 02:54:39 AM
Hi Jaypeegee

What you are looking for is a bit of a beast of a casting rod – as casting 6oz lures is heavy weight class by anyone's standards.

We have built a few as special order for some customers in Australia, and basically had to get a hybrid blank to do the job properly; as what you are looking for is basically 2/3rds of a powerful surf rod – something about 9' long, but obviously 2 piece. The problem with just taking the top 2/3rd of a 3 piece surf rod, is that what now becomes the butt  section is a little too flexible, and needs beefing up with extra wraps of carbon. The other issue with casting, is that single handed casting with a 6oz lure is not going to work, you do need to start looking at a double hander.

That was the route we went, and it worked. The problem wasn't ultimately the casting aspect – but the sheer power of the big fish when hooked and brought close to the rock platforms. That's when it becomes a seriously 'brutal' fight, and the rod really needs somme 'lock up' power for the final stages of the fight.

The biggest problem you are going to have over our Australian clients, is that the import duties and restrictions into New Zealand are very penalising; they enjoy a $1000 import free limit.

Perhaps look at some of the local high carbon surf rod blanks as options?

Cheers from sunny Africa


Jeri

Interestingly I have an SK4 that I snapped and fixed then replaced.
Meaning I have a Spare butt section
I wonder if I could (or should) chop that down...

It's a 2 even piece ~13 foot rod .. Hmmm

I have been using the SK4 9 foot uptider rod for the smaller lures but when I get to the bigger ones it oversaturates in the cast

I may have to resort to saving and getting a CTS blank made up :'(

Hi Jaypeegee,

I'm not surprised that you are finding the Uptider limited in application, as they are designed to cast sinkers and bait from a boat, and then not rip out the sinker from the bottom as the boat moves in the waves at anchor – so a very soft flexible glass tip is the usual construction of those blanks.

We used a full 36T carbon blank with no glass scrim to achieve what we were looking for in the LBG rods. Plenty of backbone, with the inbuilt power to launch heavy lures, then plenty of butt section power to hold the Kingfish near the rocks. It was a tricky design, as a casting rod – distance was the prime consideration, then the other attributes. It wasn't cheap, and I would have reservations about putting too much money into a converted Sonic rod. I would only cut it from the bottom, as you will lose too much action if you cut from the top – it might be worth a try. That said, I'm not totally familiar with the SK4, as we use so few UK blanks here in Africa – not enough strength in the tip sections, as they are originally designed for casting and bite detection.

But it is worth the thought as a trial project.


Hope that helps.

Cheers from sunny Africa


Jeri

Musky are mostly a bulldogger with vicious initial strike.  One reason for stiff rod is very bony mouth which is difficult to get a hook in.  That and keeping them out of cover.  Nothing like an AJ in terms of speed and power.

Quote from: humboldtdan on September 16, 2015, 05:20:41 PM
Musky are mostly a bulldogger with vicious initial strike.  One reason for stiff rod is very bony mouth which is difficult to get a hook in.  That and keeping them out of cover.  Nothing like an AJ in terms of speed and power.

Hmm. A wild thought appears... Stiff rod = stiff the whole way through the rod right?
If that is the case then that alone will rule the musky rod out as a solution.

Quote from: jaypeegee on September 16, 2015, 07:50:39 PM

Quote from: humboldtdan on September 16, 2015, 05:20:41 PM
Musky are mostly a bulldogger with vicious initial strike.  One reason for stiff rod is very bony mouth which is difficult to get a hook in.  That and keeping them out of cover.  Nothing like an AJ in terms of speed and power.

Hmm. A wild thought appears... Stiff rod = stiff the whole way through the rod right?
If that is the case then that alone will rule the musky rod out as a solution.

I think you will find the actions aren't too extremely fast.

Take a look at the 9 foot St Croix Premier Musky. It is not a split grip but the two piece ferrule system is carried over from their surf rods. The handle section is short making the action feel like a one piece rod. I have the extra heavy. 50-100lb line 6-12 0z lure. It has not been in saltwater yet but I do plan to try it. I have an older Gold Trinidad 20 that fits nicely.
On Musky rods in saltwater: check out this video of a 350 Goliath Grouper on a Migizi Musky rod.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sMsFERZUJ8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sMsFERZUJ8)

Hi Serrations

Appreciate the thought. I will need to go custom locally but for now I am sorted. I have a T-curve bluewater 15-24kg rod at 7'6" which may grow a new butt or stay the same depending on how it works out. It is pretty fast and maybe a tad too short but it does work the heavier end of the lures I use/make well.
I put the Tranx on it and threw these lures trying out different combinations of trebles and singles and I am reasonably pleased

yep the lure finishes aren't the best but the action of each is

Quote from: Newell Nut on September 14, 2015, 08:15:59 PM. I set my drag at 20 lb and the rod lasted about 5 seconds on a big snapper and snapped 3 inches from the fore

I will cordially & respectfully say this has never been my experience using St. Croix Musky rods for catfish. With some of them going over 70 lbs. in current well over 5 mph. The St. Croix Classic Cat rods  very much a rod built on musky blank. St. Croix dead lifted over 70 lbs repeatedly with this rod. A rod rated  for 15 - 60 lb. line.
I have many of their musky rods & still have the prototype Classic Cat I was sent prior to their release. Still using almost every other day. This series is no longer made.
But is coming back in their Mojo line.

I believe something happened in shipping or it was a faulty blank you had.....Jeff