A bit back I had tried to describe this strangely set up Fenwick to Sal to get a possible vintage. I now have some pics. It's a 6'9" IGFA Fenglas 80 lb with xl Aftco guides, which clearly puts it in chair rod territory and predates modern stand-up design in any case. the head scratcher is WHY this full-size rod would be built with a 10" foam rear grip and plastic gimbal. In the last pic I parked a period-correct first gen Int 80 on it and you clearly see this outfit is unbalanced, not to mention a foam butt on this rig would wear quickly. I questioned whether the rod had been modified but the rear grip matches fore perfectly and has the Fenwick seat; the plastic gimbal could have been added but certainly not from wearing out an aluminum as the rod is in great shape.
I was considering re-fitting with aluminum swaged butt but if this is the original configuration I don't want to alter it. Anyone got a thought on this one?
T
rest of pics
That is an early 1980 Fenrod, all looks original, except the plastic gimbal that you're talking about. I have never seen a plastic gimbal on one of those.
I can't answer why they chose foam for the rear grip, but I could tell you that it is one tough rod.
Here are a few pics of mine, the ones in the middle are just like yours, but again, no plastic gimbal.
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=2493.msg14474#msg14474
Stupid question, but did you remove the cover on that gimbal?
Thanks, Sal!! I never get tired of looking your pics; that's what led me to you on this subject in the first place. Your 50's are set up the way my 80 is, where I would have expected mine to have Al butt. I did pull the cap; it's all nylon and does not appear to be a replacement. I love the rod, it's a horse and I wish I had a matched set. An old fishing buddy sold it to me for $200. Oh, and it came with a 14/0. :).
I'm gonna leave it as-is given it's condition.
Thor, how do you find these deals?...very nice.
I got a bunch of these rods in 90 or 91. Like a dozen or more. They came out of a "pile" in the back yard of a Fenwick rod designer. I'm pretty sure they were experimentals as they were set-up to be used with Uni-Butts (for testing most likely). I'm not sure if they were ever sold that way. Same color guide wraps with that brittle coating Fenwick used at the time that would crackle and pop when the rod was flexed. Only some had the decorative diamond wraps and the model and line classes were printed, not hand written as was common with other rods I got from him. A few lighter class rods (down to #8 & #12 noodles) were set-up with the blank through the handle like yours, but as I remember they had awful brown hypalon instead of black. It might have been what they had around. I was offered the rods so I could harvest the Aftco rollers and tips, and many of the guides are still on my Calstar and Sabre rods today. The heaviest rods I got were #50's and they had the light 2-3-4 guides with a heavy stripper. It was the first time I had seen that. My 6-1/2' #30 and #50 custom trolling rods have the same guides which work and look great with 7 rollers instead of 5 or 6. I do remember the plastic gimbals, but figured they just used them for testing. I never fished any of them as I didn't have or use butts, and the light ones were just silly.
I seem to recall my dad having one of these early Fenwick with the brown diamond wraps in like a 16 IGFA class. I believe it was fully rollered with AFTCO guides, and either had a wood butt with metal gimbal or an early AFTCO unibutt. I think he got the rod in the early 1980s as a group from a fishing buddy of his brother's who happened to work at the factory. He used to get bunches of factory rejects for free, and somehow we ended up with one. It was paired with an International 16 and I used it to catch a line class world record Wahoo at the age of 10. Cool rods. Maybe I can find a picture showing the butt.
I recently bought one of these chair rods by Fenwick in 130 class and I remember when they were introduced to replace the earlier all-brown glass chair rods with Mildrum rollers (I have a 130 of those too - the exact rod from Jaws, though not the actual rod from the film).
All of these Fenwick white glass rods that I saw had brown hyperlon foregrips and Aftco Big Foot rollers on the 80 and 130 class rods with that nice diamond wrap with different brown, black and orange wraps.
All of the rods I saw had Aftco butts - all were silver then - no black or gold - and Varmac chromed brass reel seats as they were produced before the all-in-one Unibutt appeared. Most had straight butts but a curved butt was available for extra cost on the heavier classes. Curved butts were not so common then and considered a bit of a novelty. The 130 had a Varmac RS6H and the 80 had a Varmac RS5H reel seat.
I can only guess that the black male counter was a replacement fitting and something had happened to the original Varmac one. I do not think the black butt and reel seat is contemporary with the tip. Certainly, trying to pull a foam-coated butt out of a rod holder when a big marlin was tearing off line under strike drag would be a nightmare!
Just an edit to add mine is probably a bit older than Sal's lovely example 'cos his white Fenwick has a proper curved Unibutt.
I do have a stainless straight butt (not alloy) with Varmac reel seat on my brown Fenwick 130. Those were used to replace the original wooden butts and before Fenwick moved to the Aftco alloy ones so in that case my brown one is probably a bit newer than Sal's example.
Out of curiosity, I have aquired a solid alloy curved butt with a Varmac RS5H that is a very heavy piece of kit but I do not know what rod it might have been used on originally.
I never saw an Unlimited class Fenwick, though I have one by Harnell.
These rods still work very well!
Agree, all points. I also recently acquired two older 50 lbs sticks for $30 each that have that have the Varmac seats with swaged butt insert; Sal indicates 1970's vintage predating unibutts. So again, why would my 80 have hypalon and 50's have aluminum? No logic there, but I'm going to leave the 80 intact. The 50 wraps are in bad shape and I am going to fully rewrap with new Aftco HD's. The Fenwick label is intact so I'm going to TRY to restore them with the correct wraps. I expect they used Gudebrod thread, no longer available, so I will have to match as best possible. Not sure I can replicate the diamond as I wrap free hand without a wrapper but I'm going to give it a shot. If not, they'll get Thorhammer black, red, and gold.
I have one of the Harnell unlimited's also; it was in bad shape and I'm slowly rebuilding it. Stuck on whether to rewrap the Mildrum's, which are in great shape, or update with new roller guides since it's not a restoration; all new cosmetics.
Thanks for all the inputs!
Quote from: UKChris on October 21, 2015, 12:53:26 PM
Just an edit to add mine is probably a bit older than Sal's lovely example 'cos his white Fenwick has a proper curved Unibutt.
Hello Chris, I just want to mention that the 130 class FENNGLASS you see in the pic above, came to me with two butt, curved and straight.
Sal
Quote from: Alto Mare on October 19, 2015, 11:25:13 PM
Thor, how do you find these deals?...very nice.
Sal, my friends would say I can tell the difference between a BG40 and a 4500ss in a box at yard sale passing by at 40 mph lol. I do hit yard sales, pawn shops and the like as much as possible. The thrill of the hunt and acquiring a diamond in the rough is a huge part of it for me. Sometimes I come dry or lose but mostly win. I'll post a pic when I get home that is gonna make Dwight get an eye twitch lol. Being able to repair / restore gets me $10 st croix and Trevalla rods with cracked tips, $5 113's, etc. I figured out Penns years back but AT gives one the confidence to rebuild dang near anything with some drags and an AR spring. If I paid retail for all my crap my shop would be bigger and more expensive than house, earning some discussions with wife about my priorities....
Quote from: thorhammer on October 21, 2015, 01:06:45 PM
Agree, all points. I also recently acquired two older 50 lbs sticks for $30 each that have that have the Varmac seats with swaged butt insert; Sal indicates 1970's vintage predating unibutts. So again, why would my 80 have hypalon and 50's have aluminum? No logic there, but I'm going to leave the 80 intact. The 50 wraps are in bad shape and I am going to fully rewrap with new Aftco HD's. The Fenwick label is intact so I'm going to TRY to restore them with the correct wraps. I expect they used Gudebrod thread, no longer available, so I will have to match as best possible. Not sure I can replicate the diamond as I wrap free hand without a wrapper but I'm going to give it a shot. If not, they'll get Thorhammer black, red, and gold.
I have one of the Harnell unlimited's also; it was in bad shape and I'm slowly rebuilding it. Stuck on whether to rewrap the Mildrum's, which are in great shape, or update with new roller guides since it's not a restoration; all new cosmetics.
Thanks for all the inputs!
This restoration / rebuild is gonna take a bit of focus, as you can see. Winter project. Upon closer inspection the butts are SS, consistant with Sal'sdating.
Quote from: Tightlines666 on October 20, 2015, 03:35:19 AM
I seem to recall my dad having one of these early Fenwick with the brown diamond wraps in like a 16 IGFA class. I believe it was fully rollered with AFTCO guides, and either had a wood butt with metal gimbal or an early AFTCO unibutt. I think he got the rod in the early 1980s as a group from a fishing buddy of his brother's who happened to work at the factory. He used to get bunches of factory rejects for free, and somehow we ended up with one. It was paired with an International 16 and I used it to catch a line class world record Wahoo at the age of 10. Cool rods. Maybe I can find a picture showing the butt.
nice on the record!
If you are interested in Gudebrod thread, let me know. I can spool some up and mail it. 221,207, and 524 I think?
only time i've seen / heard of a stand up butt / chair blade combo was for a specialized trolling application. ie dredge, planer, or some other type of creative use to drag something.
once had an 80 class fisher chair rod with a short UB2C - guy used it for pulling a large hook-less attractor contraption he made that created a lot of drag in the water
Quote from: xiphias on October 24, 2015, 11:21:43 PM
If you are interested in Gudebrod thread, let me know. I can spool some up and mail it. 221,207, and 524 I think?
That's a great offer, thanks! I won't profess I know the numbers, but I had the thought I could send you actual guide wrap from the rod and match as best you think. What do you think?
That would be fine. If you strip a guide and look at the inside of the wrap, I bet it looks completely different than the top because of fading. I don't think Fenwick used color preservative, which really wasn't a big deal and still isn't. You would probably want to skip it as well. I'll message you with my address and you can mail me a sample. I have some other colors which are close, but I'm pretty sure these are the ones I used to repair Fenwicks.
Yessir they are way faded without even pulling one off. If you have NCP great if not I preserve anyway just to seal thread from air bubbles. I'll mail a wrap out when I get back this week from NJ. You're the man! I might have some spools; I will check and we can square up on the $$$
Thanks again!
I'll take a look at them. Don't worry about $. I have lots and lots of thread. Just glad someone else will be putting it on rods and coating over it. I have both NCP and transparent/standard in the brown. I think the NCP will match up better without adding CP as it will darken up a bit with only coating, then fade a little over time. Same with the yellow and orange NCP. They look fruity now, but I'm pretty sure it's what they used without the CP and with that quick-to-yellow/amber fast-cure brittle coating (to save time at the factory). I also found that the water-based CP often just semi-seals/traps the air, then releases "phantom bubbles" a few hours after I leave the coating rack when I'm usually asleep. And if it isn't too late for the torch to pop and smooth them, it only brings out more (usually after I leave again). I like just straight polymer coating, real warm and thin, completely soaked into the thread, then I coat it again after it cures with the time I saved from not using CP. I am also not really sure how well CP "pre-coat" ever helped color retention over time on NCP thread, but it definitely keeps it from darkening with coating. Just my two cents on the rod finishing.
Sage advice right there. You see what shape these are in and if the fenwick decal weren't in great shape I'd spray them black and re wrap in easier pattern. It's going to take a little time to match the diamonds on both; it's not even well done from the factory. However I love the old skool color combo so I'm going to give it a shot. Whatever motors I put on there will probably get Ande pink to complete the throwback.
Always loved Ande Pink. Strong, Soft, Dependable.
It was my go-to for #25 mono. Bluefin ate it and I never confused it with the reels spooled #20 or #30 clear. Dad's system, I can't take credit for it.
Hey guys Xiphias just joined about 3 weeks ago. Here he is acting like an old AT pro sharing his stuff. Thanks Xiphias it'll come back to you. By the way welcome to the site. Dominick
Quote from: Dominick on November 03, 2015, 12:02:36 AM
Hey guys Xiphias just joined about 3 weeks ago. Here he is acting like an old AT pro sharing his stuff. Thanks Xiphias it'll come back to you. By the way welcome to the site. Dominick
x10. Stand up dude in my book!
Thanks for the extra snippet Sal (sorry - been away a while).
Lucky you to get both butt styles. I think the interesting point is that yours are 'proper' Unibutt whereas my one is a Varmac chromed brass seat and an Aftco (straight) butt.
Pity they are not interchangeable.
Regarding the Harnell Unlimited, I had to re-wrap mine as the overwrap whippings were in a sorry state though I retained the pale green underwrap. I refitted the original Mildrum rollers as they are fine - only needed a clean - and wrapped them in place with dark green as I could not get the original speckled thread.
I'm partway through doing the same with the Harnell 80.
I'd like to hang them over the fireplace, crossed like swords, but can't get the necessary permission ::)
Cheers
Xiphias is right --
Ande Pink is a good line, made in Germany.
Some have made statements that it is too stretchy -- but that is not a problem, generally.
The other positives are strength, limberness, abrasion resistance, etc.
Never had any complaints from clients -- they all use and like it.
I change out all of my line, if used every season, anyway -- cheapest insurance for your next trip.
Best,
Fred
(http://i748.photobucket.com/albums/xx130/foakes1/F28F83FC-56CC-4B63-8F57-DF7380861272_zpspa4xa6y3.jpg) (http://s748.photobucket.com/user/foakes1/media/F28F83FC-56CC-4B63-8F57-DF7380861272_zpspa4xa6y3.jpg.html)
(http://i748.photobucket.com/albums/xx130/foakes1/C5B74AFD-BDB7-449B-85B2-6DBE121A1FEB_zpsurnkxz0g.jpg) (http://s748.photobucket.com/user/foakes1/media/C5B74AFD-BDB7-449B-85B2-6DBE121A1FEB_zpsurnkxz0g.jpg.html)
(http://i748.photobucket.com/albums/xx130/foakes1/2E55029E-6940-4595-9D70-B852E8E9BA33_zpslhcxmbep.jpg) (http://s748.photobucket.com/user/foakes1/media/2E55029E-6940-4595-9D70-B852E8E9BA33_zpslhcxmbep.jpg.html)
My largest catch, shark about 225, was caught on Ande Pink 50, and it was old....I leaned on it hard enough to torque a solid glas Magnaflex about 15 degrees out of aligment, and it it still like that to this day... ergo my only acid wrap lol.
Quote from: xiphias on October 24, 2015, 11:21:43 PM
If you are interested in Gudebrod thread, let me know. I can spool some up and mail it. 221,207, and 524 I think?
[/quote
hope you had a good holiday! I'm going to take you up on the offer, but I have reconsidered doing the whole rods and will just need enough to replace the Aftco roller tops. Gonna see how well I can restore what's there before I try to match original diamond wraps since I wrap totally by hand (no jig at all, thread sits in a dish). let me see if I can find spools and will send out.
John
Revisting the idea of replacing the butt on the 80 with aftco aluminum butt. I'm going to pull the gimbal to see what's under there first. Anyone please weigh in on whether you think the blank is strong enough to cut away reel seat and foam covered butt and remount in a ferrule for storabutt.
I just can't think a full size 80 lb chair rod was meant to be trolled in holder with foam butt and nylon gimbal.
thanks!
John
I suspect that if you cut off the rear foam grip you might find that underneath is a bit of something or other that has been joined to the white 80lb Fenwick blank to make that rod one-piece, with the joint being covered by the black reel seat.
My feeling is that if you carefully cut the reel seat in a spiral and peel it off without cutting into the blank, you should find the end of the white Fenwick blank butted up against the odd bit making up the butt. So long as the end of the Fenwick blank is undamaged it would be fine to epoxy it into a new ferrule of a new Aftco Storabutt or similar (size 4 - personally, I'd go with all silver to match the rollers and be in keeping with the period of its original construction). Even the odd scratch won't be a problem as the metal of the ferrule plus the metal of the real seat will reinforce it.
If you can do this without damaging the original foregrip and if the original whippings are all OK you'll have a very nice and fishable rod. I love those Fenwick rods.
Good luck and please let us know how it goes.
Chris, what you state is exactly what I'm expecting to see. I've probably stripped three dozen reel seats thusly and this one should pop off with Dremel as you indicate. Def going with siver storabutt no 4. If I misalign I'm only out a twenty dollar ferrule and not a 130$ butt to recut
Will post pics after the operation; I would rate the rod a nine cosmetically and ten functionally so def worth this procedure
John
That's good and I'm very much looking forward to seeing a picture of the end result. Did I say I love those Fenwick rods ( ;D) - it is the combination of wrap colours and the fact they just work so well.
It's when you are a whole day's flight from home on the first day of a week's charter, tied into a 1/4 ton of blue marlin using the boat's new rods, and you find they are a bunch of 'crop' that you wish you'd brought your own regardless of the excess baggage cost. One 130lb rod broke clean in half, one cut off a fish on a triple-header (roller fault) and we had to re-tighten the roller screws on each one every night - seventy of the little darling screws.
Good luck with the project!