I have tracked the Newells for quite a while and in the past few months the practice of shill bidding has gotten extremely bad. For those that don't know the illegal practice, it is the practice of using friends or employees to run up a bid. It is easy to spot when you see a bunch of bids and a high price early in the listing. The proof is when you look at the bidders and see that 100% or 50% of their bidding is for this one listing person.
One of the tackle companies recently auctioned a left hand NIB Newell that went to around $375. I could see the proof of shill bidding. A few weeks go by and they relist the same reel again because an employee won the bid because no sane Newell Nut would chase the bid.
Happens a lot when Pawn shops sell stuff too. Don't chase shill bids guys.
Quote from: Newell Nut on December 02, 2015, 07:23:57 PM
I have tracked the Newells for quite a while and in the past few months the practice of shill bidding has gotten extremely bad. For those that don't know the illegal practice, it is the practice of using friends or employees to run up a bid. It is easy to spot when you see a bunch of bids and a high price early in the listing. The proof is when you look at the bidders and see that 100% or 50% of their bidding is for this one listing person.
One of the tackle companies recently auctioned a left hand NIB Newell that went to around $375. I could see the proof of shill bidding. A few weeks go by and they relist the same reel again because an employee won the bid because no sane Newell Nut would chase the bid.
Happens a lot when Pawn shops sell stuff too. Don't chase shill bids guys.
It was disused here earlier this year and from time to time about ebay and other sites over pricing items. This business of shill biding has gone on since or grandfathers time. Which brings me to saying.....You have to know the value of the piece you are biding on, or let the buyer be ware. I have to say this is a dishonest act but there are dishonest people in this world. You are wise to this action and thanks for bringing it up.
Joe
China ebayers are doing it to the 9's! >:(
I play the game and use it against them sometimes up to a certain dollar amount or proof of shilling point ....then drop and watch how it ends. Just like you say- same one wins it and then magically it's re-listed. ;)
Huh... I wondered why the prices seemed so outlandish... shill bidding, hey? :(
I wouldn't mind acquiring another Newell or two, but I don't want to be ripped off. Plus, I'm uneducated about all the different letter prefixes --'G', 'P', 'S', etcetera-- and don't know which are more (or less) desirable. ???
~A~
Shill bidding does exist but Newells can go for crazy prices especially if they are "colored". I sold my red 533 on the flea for a lot more than I imagined.
I have seen that too Dwight. I have a set price in my head when I see a reel I want. I don't go over it.
There will be more.
Quote from: Aiala on December 02, 2015, 11:18:39 PM
Huh... I wondered why the prices seemed so outlandish... shill bidding, hey? :(
I wouldn't mind acquiring another Newell or two, but I don't want to be ripped off. Plus, I'm uneducated about all the different letter prefixes --'G', 'P', 'S', etcetera-- and don't know which are more (or less) desirable. ???
~A~
Gs and Ps are my favorites. Ss are nice but there are different versions. The ones with the long cross bolts you want to run from. If you bought a new one and took care of it then no issue. If you buy a used one you can get burned. Mr Newell had a good idea for strength but the chrome content was too low and these screws would rust and break. If you had one of these the remedy would be to just add a Tiburon frame and the problem is solved.
The basics of all the Newells are pretty much the same and parts are interchangeable from one model to another.
Quote from: Newell Nut on December 03, 2015, 12:28:46 AM
Quote from: Aiala on December 02, 2015, 11:18:39 PM
Huh... I wondered why the prices seemed so outlandish... shill bidding, hey? :(
I wouldn't mind acquiring another Newell or two, but I don't want to be ripped off. Plus, I'm uneducated about all the different letter prefixes --'G', 'P', 'S', etcetera-- and don't know which are more (or less) desirable. ???
~A~
Gs and Ps are my favorites. Ss are nice but there are different versions. The ones with the long cross bolts you want to run from. If you bought a new one and took care of it then no issue. If you buy a used one you can get burned. Mr Newell had a good idea for strength but the chrome content was too low and these screws would rust and break. If you had one of these the remedy would be to just add a Tiburon frame and the problem is solved.
The basics of all the Newells are pretty much the same and parts are interchangeable from one model to another.
I was told by Chowderpuff on ebay that some S's don't fit the Tib frames (without modification).
My S229-5 does fit...
No long through bolts.
He told me metal bearing cups on the S indicate a good fit.
$.02
This one is a classic Shill Bid operation. Bidder enters his max bid into the system and then the shill bidder tries to find the guys max and then hopes dummies will chase it higher.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Newell-S540-3-2-Conventional-Saltwater-Fishing-Reel-Excellent-Condition-/121829528810?hash=item1c5d9b14ea:g:G7QAAOSwZVhWTQX8
This one has already been sold twice. The winner this time is the owner again.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/121805868607?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
This is how you spot them. This guy has 335 ebay transactions which is a lot and 100% of his bids has been to the same lister (Melton tackle).
http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBidderProfile&mode=1&item=121805868607&aid=0***e&eu=&bidtid=1551748602002&view=NONE&ssPageName=PageBidderProfileViewBids_None_ViewLink
Quote from: swill88 on December 03, 2015, 12:34:23 AM
Quote from: Newell Nut on December 03, 2015, 12:28:46 AM
Quote from: Aiala on December 02, 2015, 11:18:39 PM
Huh... I wondered why the prices seemed so outlandish... shill bidding, hey? :(
I wouldn't mind acquiring another Newell or two, but I don't want to be ripped off. Plus, I'm uneducated about all the different letter prefixes --'G', 'P', 'S', etcetera-- and don't know which are more (or less) desirable. ???
~A~
Gs and Ps are my favorites. Ss are nice but there are different versions. The ones with the long cross bolts you want to run from. If you bought a new one and took care of it then no issue. If you buy a used one you can get burned. Mr Newell had a good idea for strength but the chrome content was too low and these screws would rust and break. If you had one of these the remedy would be to just add a Tiburon frame and the problem is solved.
The basics of all the Newells are pretty much the same and parts are interchangeable from one model to another.
I was told by Chowderpuff on ebay that some S's don't fit the Tib frames (without modification).
My S229-5 does fit...
No long through bolts.
He told me metal bearing cups on the S indicate a good fit.
$.02
What Gregg is referring to in modification he does as insurance because some people have no mechanical skills. The long bolt model will have shorter long bolts holding the inner rings. These inner rings have small holes that are too small for the 5-40 screws that go into the tib frame. Simply ream them out with next size larger drill and everything fits. Most people can do this but some don't have a clue how to use a drill. He is trying to reduce his returns.
This happens with high end collectables on ocassion as well. When an ORCA member spots the infraction, often times measures are taken (it is reported to EBay), which often result in some form of diciplinary action being taken. An account may he frozen or disabled or the like. Unfortunately, it is not too difficult to get another EBAY a count (I think you just need a different email address, maybe a different address, name, or PayPal acount, if linked? not sure really).
This is a problem buyers should be aware of
Quote from: Newell Nut on December 03, 2015, 12:42:50 AM
Quote from: swill88 on December 03, 2015, 12:34:23 AM
Quote from: Newell Nut on December 03, 2015, 12:28:46 AM
Quote from: Aiala on December 02, 2015, 11:18:39 PM
Huh... I wondered why the prices seemed so outlandish... shill bidding, hey? :(
I wouldn't mind acquiring another Newell or two, but I don't want to be ripped off. Plus, I'm uneducated about all the different letter prefixes --'G', 'P', 'S', etcetera-- and don't know which are more (or less) desirable. ???
~A~
Gs and Ps are my favorites. Ss are nice but there are different versions. The ones with the long cross bolts you want to run from. If you bought a new one and took care of it then no issue. If you buy a used one you can get burned. Mr Newell had a good idea for strength but the chrome content was too low and these screws would rust and break. If you had one of these the remedy would be to just add a Tiburon frame and the problem is solved.
The basics of all the Newells are pretty much the same and parts are interchangeable from one model to another.
I was told by Chowderpuff on ebay that some S's don't fit the Tib frames (without modification).
My S229-5 does fit...
No long through bolts.
He told me metal bearing cups on the S indicate a good fit.
$.02
What Gregg is referring to in modification he does as insurance because some people have no mechanical skills. The long bolt model will have shorter long bolts holding the inner rings. These inner rings have small holes that are too small for the 5-40 screws that go into the tib frame. Simply ream them out with next size larger drill and everything fits. Most people can do this but some don't have a clue how to use a drill. He is trying to reduce his returns.
got it... Thanks!
and thanks for the shill info... it explains a lot.
The quickest thing to get your attention is this. Normally there will only be a few bids during the 6 day listing until the last hour and it heats up.
When you see 10 to 15 bids in the first two days you should smell a rat right away.
Hey, Dwight, thanks for sharing your experience with the shill game on the bay. I have been on there since 98 and saw it go down hill fast when a certain large eastern country jumped on board. Copy everything, sell, sell, sell, no returns, no ethics, no kidding. I still get the itch to jump in and goof around with a pos ID'd shiller just to raise false hopes then bail...then wait 5 days and the same item is back up. Too funny.
So much money involved that the corporate folks have glazed eyes and "miss" this small time shill stuff.
My .02 cents. Add that to $6.00 and tax and you get a Cuppa Joe! ;D
Here is a newell that is not worth more than 130, not mint and no rod clamp. Sold for $148.50 so why is it now relisted and sitting at $66 currently. Nobody would chase the employees bid any higher the first time so the pawn shop was stuck with it to relist again. If you scroll down the link you will see the relisted reel. This could be a nice little reel cleaned up and new drags if a non employee can get it honestly.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/391303830616?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
I would think this would be counter productive for the sale of these reels, sooner or later people are going the catch on like you did and just not bid for them. Further more I think you have to be super Cautious when it comes to perching on ebay in the first place.
Joe
I too have been through this. What I do no is put in my max bid and leave it at that. They always over bid me and get stuck with something that is not worth what they paid for it.
thanks for posting Dwight. I had wondered why so many items would sell, then be relisted shortly thereafter. good to be aware of this...
Not only are you dealing with shills but it is probably stolen goods. The clue being that the rod clamp is missing. Dominick
I like to report them As soon as I figure out their game.
i had a guy selling high end 4wheelers for ridiculous prices. i chased him around from eBay to craigslist and back again. i got him to send me emails and tracked his IP address then turned that in to eBay security.
His account was cancelled and he went on the lamb.
Head of eBay security emailed me an invite to visit their security division as his guest. i didn't go, wish I had it might have been interesting. There's always a scam artist trying to pull one over on you. Just do your homework, know the fair value of the item and set your max bid like shark man said and let it go. I can't tell you how many times I dropped out and watched an item go for 10-50% or more than it is worth. i have seen used items go for more than the retail price of the same item BNIB! People get auction fever and can't bear to lose I guess? And unless your bidding on a one of kind item there will be another one, and another one, and another one.
Is this a shill bid? http://www.ebay.com/itm/231773208828?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT ???
~A~
Maybe, maybe not Aiala --
Dwight would be able to tell us by the bidding pattern and his experience.
Although colored Newells will command high numbers.
This time of year (Christmas)! Some bidders who have missed out by a bit on some of the rare items they want -- will just put a Hail Mary bid out there.
Ebay, by its very nature -- mixes pros, amateurs, collectors, newbies, and oldbies -- along with crooks and scammers -- into a chaotic heap.
Sometimes in order to get what we think we really need -- we have to wade into the swamp goo.
And if we pay what others think is too much for one rare reel -- we have probably gotten another 10 at below market levels either through ebay or other sources -- so it generally averages out to our advantage.
None of us have to play ebay -- but it is a source for those tough items from time to time.
Best,
Fred
(http://i748.photobucket.com/albums/xx130/foakes1/8CB494AC-A87A-4AC4-BA42-FB475467813A_zpsjkkgdl3d.jpg) (http://s748.photobucket.com/user/foakes1/media/8CB494AC-A87A-4AC4-BA42-FB475467813A_zpsjkkgdl3d.jpg.html)
(http://i748.photobucket.com/albums/xx130/foakes1/D33D6658-7F8C-4312-89A2-DE07B77D8076_zps6gsmi5fy.jpg) (http://s748.photobucket.com/user/foakes1/media/D33D6658-7F8C-4312-89A2-DE07B77D8076_zps6gsmi5fy.jpg.html)
(http://i748.photobucket.com/albums/xx130/foakes1/3EB47D3B-CFB7-4D46-8C23-476676E6FAE5_zpssxvqarps.jpg) (http://s748.photobucket.com/user/foakes1/media/3EB47D3B-CFB7-4D46-8C23-476676E6FAE5_zpssxvqarps.jpg.html)
(http://i748.photobucket.com/albums/xx130/foakes1/9916B229-0839-499F-8F38-903186840B99_zpshyq8t66o.jpg) (http://s748.photobucket.com/user/foakes1/media/9916B229-0839-499F-8F38-903186840B99_zpshyq8t66o.jpg.html)
(http://i748.photobucket.com/albums/xx130/foakes1/943142D2-9BCA-46BF-880E-C9DF62723986_zpspnae1i5m.jpg) (http://s748.photobucket.com/user/foakes1/media/943142D2-9BCA-46BF-880E-C9DF62723986_zpspnae1i5m.jpg.html)
(http://i748.photobucket.com/albums/xx130/foakes1/AD5E5C70-C039-44DF-A886-63A7240AD366_zpspx44pixj.jpg) (http://s748.photobucket.com/user/foakes1/media/AD5E5C70-C039-44DF-A886-63A7240AD366_zpspx44pixj.jpg.html)
(http://i748.photobucket.com/albums/xx130/foakes1/63520026-C5BC-4125-AC14-39A849A1DD0A_zps0gxdkuhv.jpg) (http://s748.photobucket.com/user/foakes1/media/63520026-C5BC-4125-AC14-39A849A1DD0A_zps0gxdkuhv.jpg.html)
Fred, thanks for the rundown. :)
Naturally I'd love to acquire a pink Newell (or pink anything) but not for the price of a new 2-speed Avet or what have you... too rich for my blood. ::)
~A~
I just looked at the pink Newell bid history and would agree....maybe, maybe not a shill bid auction. My gut says no....my experience says, looking at the bids that "mr or ms zero feedback" is mucking up the auction with wild bidding. The top bidder has money and is changing the value or perceived value of the reel by throwing money at it regardless. He or she will win and pay too much for it...but will win despite mr zero feedback. That's my 2 cents.
There will be another pink Newell and it may or may not play out the same way again.
Quote from: David Hall on December 04, 2015, 01:30:24 AMi have seen used items go for more than the retail price of the same item BNIB!People get auction fever and can't bear to lose I guess?And unless your bidding on a one of kind item there will be another one, and another one, and another one
How very true.
The only item I never paid for was like that I bid far too much then after winning came to my senses and emailed the seller telling him I was backing out-he never got back to me/there was no feedback and I learned my lesson.
As to those coloured reels WTH cares about that-it must be some deep seated emotional attachment that I lack makes no sense at all to me.
Quote from: Aiala on December 06, 2015, 03:41:40 PM
Is this a shill bid? http://www.ebay.com/itm/231773208828?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT ???
~A~
Even though colored newels are popular and fetch more money I did spot two bidders on the bidders list that obviously ran the bids up. Looked as though the winner may have been legit with only 4% of his action with that bidder.
If you study it enough you will be able to spot them. Always click on the area that states the number of bids. A list will come up. You can click on each bidder id and see the percentage of ebay business is done with that seller. If it is a high percentage just keep watching the action each day. If someone places a bid for $50 and then make a $150 max bid then a shill bidder will bid until he finds the max. Then the shill bidder will make a higher max bid for others to chase.
What do you think of this one? http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&item=161910448060&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2565
I've bought from that seller before with no problems.
This would be legit ..1 & 0 feedbacks on the two high bidders. They can overpay .
Quote from: Shark Hunter on December 12, 2015, 07:55:30 AM
I've bought from that seller before with no problems.
Me, too... many times. :)
~
A~
I've only bought 1 item from him & that was all I will ever buy from him. He does this as a side to the book store & tried to charge me tax. He is 20 Min. from me.
Mike
I wonder how it's even permitted that a vendor can bid on their own auctions or am I missing something?
I can't for the life of me understand why anyone is upset about these people, if you know whats going on. Then don't patronize that sealer...Yes? A person needs to educate themselves before entering into a bid for any product. I would personally ask one of the guys here who I trusted to advise me what the fare price of reel was, as Aiala did.
Joe
Quote from: Mac53 on December 12, 2015, 08:20:33 PM
I wonder how it's even permitted that a vendor can bid on their own auctions or am I missing something?
It is against ebay rules. They depend on us to report it so they can investigate. If you look at and item you will see a link that says "Report this item". After their investigation they deal with the sellers. Of course a seller can just start up a new account I would assume. Not sure.