I searched for a solution for this problem first, but didn't find anything. As I have been playing with my Jigmasters with Tom's aluminum sideplates a problem has popped up, but I posted here because I don't believe it is a side plate issue.
When shifted out of free spool the pinion sometimes jams up against the under side of the bridge plate on the side of the pinion opposite the main gear. It just misses clearing by a fraction of a mm. I presume either the slot in the pinion (where the yolk goes), or the pinion yolk itself are issues, but I don't see wear on either. The yolk is flat, not warped. I'm at work and can't send photos at the moment. I'm wondering if others have encountered this problem in the past, and if so, what was the solution? I can take photos when I get home tonight if needed.
Thanks.
Sid
Don't rule your spool out Sid, check the shaft by the notched area, where it sits in the bearing pinion and make sure all looks good there.
I've played with many of those custom parts and I mean many, I have not run into that issue.
There is always a possibility though, but check that spool shaft first.
Sal
Are you using the original spool or Tiburon spool? If you are using my gear set and Tiburon spool, that might be the problem.
Quote from: Black Pearl on December 23, 2015, 07:01:26 PM
Are you using the original spool or Tiburon spool? If you are using my gear set and Tiburon spool, that might be the problem.
hmmm.... Alan, I picked up a
Tiburon make that a Newell 99 spool to use with your gears, Tom's plates, and an accurate frame.
Might I expect a problem? It's not together yet as I am waiting for a few more parts.
Steve
Not necessarily. At times the Tiburon spool shaft is a little larger than Penn, but it doesn't happen on all. Try sliding the pinion on the longer part of the spool shaft by hand without forcing and see if it slides all the way.
just in case it doesn't, you could still use that spool, all you need to do is to remove a couple of thousands on an inch from the shaft...very little.
Thanks Sal... got it.
There's always a solution.
You may want to try turning the yoke over and reinstall. Sometimes one side has a slight angle where the yoke meets the ease trip making it easier to slide.
Quote from: Alto Mare on December 23, 2015, 06:44:27 PM
Don't rule your spool out Sid, check the shaft by the notched area, where it sits in the bearing pinion and make sure all looks good there.
I've played with many of those custom parts and I mean many, I have not run into that issue.
There is always a possibility though, but check that spool shaft first.
Sal
Thanks Sal, but I'm watching this happen without a spool, just looking at the head plate as I move the eccentric. I put in a different spool without a resolution to the problem. But I made a mistake in the original explanation. The pinion contacts the bridge plate and binds there as it moves
away from the spool. It moves toward the eccentric a little bit (like it moves a little in the direction the eccentric jack moves when it disengages the pinion from the spool), and when that happens the pinion doesn't stay square, thus it catches on and contacts the bridge plate and won't fully retract away from the spool, but it's far enough away that the spool and pinion are not engaged. It's a little better when the spool is in, because the spindle helps keep the pinion from tilting (not square to the intended axis of the pinion gear); but when in free spool the crank is very difficult to move. This is worse when I crank down on the drag and minimal with minimum drag (this tells me it's the pinion binding to the bridge plate that's the problem; I first thought the top of the drag stack was rubbing on the frame, but I no longer think that is happening).This problem improves a lot when the drag is minimal to none - so I think the pinion is also binding on the bridge plate when this is happening and interfering with the movement of the main gear when the drag is engaged. I have pretty good free spool, but not great (I think with the pinion tilted (not square to the intended orientation of the pinion) and binding on the bridge plate there is some contact between it and the spool spindle - I think I can feel this, and it detracts from free spool time). The pinion isn't behaving as it should and I'm not yet sure why. I will try Bryan's suggestion and flip the pinion yolk over and see if that helps. I can also swap the pinion yolk with the one on the other reel, I have two Jigmasters and have been swapping out parts trying to determine if there is a winning combination. I need a break from the Allen wrench tonight - I'll be back on this after work tomorrow night. If I find a solution I'll post what I think is going on. If I don't I'll post photos to see if I can get help.
Thanks to Bryan and Sal for the suggestions. I'm glad you guys are on my team.
Sid
Quote from: Black Pearl on December 23, 2015, 07:01:26 PM
Are you using the original spool or Tiburon spool? If you are using my gear set and Tiburon spool, that might be the problem.
It's the original spool. I don't own a Tiburon spool.
Sid, you've mentioned yourself that when testing the bridge without spool assembly, the pinion tilts, that is correct and it will also create damage if you do it long enough. There are many that do it, myself included, but I always place my finger on the pinion and try to hold it straight while moving the eccentric.
Best practice is to try the parts when fully assembled.
Bryan is on to something and it usually works, I've mentioned it myself many times. The bridge assembly parts are stamped, what that does is create a rounded edge on those parts , but only on side.
Make sure the rounded edge on the yoke is facing up as you install it.
Another thing you need to do is to slide the pinion on the spool shaft by hand without forcing it and see if it binds anywhere. Swapping parts as you've been doing is good practice.
I'm sure you'll get it figured out.
Sal
Quote from: Alto Mare on December 24, 2015, 06:19:47 AM
Sid, you've mentioned yourself that when testing the bridge without spool assembly, the pinion tilts, that is correct and it will also create damage if you do it long enough. There are many that do it, myself included, but I always place my finger on the pinion and try to hold it straight while moving the eccentric.
Best practice is to try the parts when fully assembled.
Bryan is on to something and it usually works, I've mentioned it myself many times. The bridge assembly parts are stamped, what that does is create a rounded edge on those parts , but only on side.
Make sure the rounded edge on the yoke is facing up as you install it.
Another thing you need to do is to slide the pinion on the spool shaft by hand without forcing it and see if it binds anywhere. Swapping parts as you've been doing is good practice.
I'm sure you'll get it figured out.
Sal
Sal,
I don't think he uses any of my SS parts in his Jigmaster.
Quote from: Black Pearl on December 24, 2015, 12:45:16 PM
Quote from: Alto Mare on December 24, 2015, 06:19:47 AM
Sid, you've mentioned yourself that when testing the bridge without spool assembly, the pinion tilts, that is correct and it will also create damage if you do it long enough. There are many that do it, myself included, but I always place my finger on the pinion and try to hold it straight while moving the eccentric.
Best practice is to try the parts when fully assembled.
Bryan is on to something and it usually works, I've mentioned it myself many times. The bridge assembly parts are stamped, what that does is create a rounded edge on those parts , but only on side.
Make sure the rounded edge on the yoke is facing up as you install it.
Another thing you need to do is to slide the pinion on the spool shaft by hand without forcing it and see if it binds anywhere. Swapping parts as you've been doing is good practice.
I'm sure you'll get it figured out.
Sal
Sal,
I don't think he uses any of my SS parts in his Jigmaster.
Gotcha!
Still, same process for both, Penn yoke is stamped as yours. Sid will still need to see if the pinion gets caught on the spool shaft, no matter which pinion.
Thanks Alan.
Will investigate these issues again tonight after work. Alan is correct, the stainless steel parts inside are not his, unless he was making them in the '70's. I find it fascinating that this reel my dad purchased back then has all stainless internals *except for the pinion yolk*; it was all working fine until I tried to install in Tom's aluminum side plates. They are manufactured to much closer tolerances, this may be part of the problem, but not ready to say this won't work yet, or I won't be able to get it to work. I may sand the pinion yolk down a little just in case..., and make sure the edges are rounded on at least one side. I'll make sure the pinion slides easily along the spool spindle and engages properly (sounds like it does that just fine). Flipping the eccentric lever back and forth sounds different with the new plates; I'm assuming that's the difference between bakelite and aluminum. There's plenty for me to investigate. My Allen wrench will get another workout tonight. You guys are giving me quite the education. Thank you.
Those are not ss parts Sid, they're chromed brass.
Sal
Quote from: Alto Mare on December 24, 2015, 02:02:59 PM
Those are not ss parts Sid, they're chromed brass.
Sal
Upon closer examination I can verify this (not that it was necessary). Thanks Sal. I have two Jigmasters whose internals are quite different in color. I guess the obvious brass pinion yolk accompanied by chromed brass everywhere else is a replacement.
I have a Squidder open waiting for Alan to return the head plate after extracting the bearing, so I looked at the pinion yolk to see the difference between the stamped edge and the bottom edge. It's a pretty subtle difference, but it's definitely there. Makes sense that the eccentric jack slides more easily over the side with the rounded edge. Thanks for the help.
Quote from: sdlehr on December 25, 2015, 01:03:36 AM
I have a Squidder open waiting for Alan to return the head plate after extracting the bearing, so I looked at the pinion yolk to see the difference between the stamped edge and the bottom edge. It's a pretty subtle difference, but it's definitely there. Makes sense that the eccentric jack slides more easily over the side with the rounded edge. Thanks for the help.
Those are tricky, can't put too much pressure on the under side of the bearing or you'll crack the plate.
I'm sure Alan knows how to handle it though, he thought me after all. ;D
A sliding hammer with a bearing puller head comes handy here, I happen to have one of those.
But as mentioned above, Alan will get it out, I have no doubts.
Sal
After turning the pinion yolk over (and backing off the right side bearing a little on the new aluminum side plate from Tom) she's as smooth as silk and ready for fishing! I had two problems at the same time, was getting a little frustrated thinking something was amiss with my internal parts, but I'm a happy camper now. If you're assembling a Jigmaster from Tom's aluminum side plates be careful not to over-tighten the right side bearing - in the stock Penns you can tighten it down all the way, and should, but not so in this conversion.
Now I have another weird Jigmaster problem to ask about, but I'll start a new thread.
Sid
Quote from: Alto Mare on December 25, 2015, 02:31:23 AM
Those are tricky, can't put too much pressure on the under side of the bearing or you'll crack the plate.
I'm sure Alan knows how to handle it though, he thought me after all. ;D
A sliding hammer with a bearing puller head comes handy here, I happen to have one of those.
But as mentioned above, Alan will get it out, I have no doubts.
Sal
The Squidder side plate arrived in today's mail, it's my next project. Alan returned the old, rusty bearing. The side I couldn't see was the one that was most rusted; are the plastic spools on the Squidders usually noisier than the metal? I guess I'll find out after I reassemble, it was making a horrible racket before; I hope the left side bearing isn't the noisy one.
Sid
Quote from: sdlehr on December 26, 2015, 09:49:48 PM
After turning the pinion yolk over (and backing off the right side bearing a little on the new aluminum side plate from Tom) she's as smooth as silk and ready for fishing! I had two problems at the same time, was getting a little frustrated thinking something was amiss with my internal parts, but I'm a happy camper now. If you're assembling a Jigmaster from Tom's aluminum side plates be careful not to over-tighten the right side bearing - in the stock Penns you can tighten it down all the way, and should, but not so in this conversion.
Now I have another weird Jigmaster problem to ask about, but I'll start a new thread.
Sid
I'm glad ypu got it worked out. SUCCESS!!!
Thanks, Bryan. You were a big help!
Quote from: Alto Mare on December 24, 2015, 06:19:47 AM
Sid, you've mentioned yourself that when testing the bridge without spool assembly, the pinion tilts, that is correct and it will also create damage if you do it long enough. There are many that do it, myself included, but I always place my finger on the pinion and try to hold it straight while moving the eccentric.
Best practice is to try the parts when fully assembled.
Bryan is on to something and it usually works, I've mentioned it myself many times. The bridge assembly parts are stamped, what that does is create a rounded edge on those parts , but only on side.
Make sure the rounded edge on the yoke is facing up as you install it.
Another thing you need to do is to slide the pinion on the spool shaft by hand without forcing it and see if it binds anywhere. Swapping parts as you've been doing is good practice.
I'm sure you'll get it figured out.
This just saved my weekend, thanks
Sal