What does it do? How does it work? Do i need to do it? Are there other options? What is the mixture? 50:50?
I get the feeling that once corrosion starts...it isn't curable. So what does a vinegar/water bath provide?
Talking about corrosion removal on Penn Trim rings or cross bars or brass/chrome spools.
Any advice or guidance?
Vinegar is 5% acetic acid. It dissolves the green copper oxide. The ORCA book (Old Reel Collectors Association) discusses using it full strength with no deleterious effects. I have done so many times. Don't add baking soda until your rinse water. I've been using CLR Bath and Kitchen Cleaner and a brass brush on the brass in my last few reels - and it's the bomb! I use the CLR on the chrome, also, but not with the brass brush. It removes the verdigris much more rapidly than the vinegar does. It takes literally seconds to remove oxidation that used to take considerable polishing effort.
(http://i1379.photobucket.com/albums/ah127/sdlehr/e49aa60d-a5cf-41e3-a736-c933d22e526e_zpsgeqr6n2w.jpg) (http://s1379.photobucket.com/user/sdlehr/media/e49aa60d-a5cf-41e3-a736-c933d22e526e_zpsgeqr6n2w.jpg.html)
There are so many variations as to what we use to clean our reels and to remove the tests of time.
If you really want to get serious, you need an ultrasonic cleaner.
I don't have one yet.
I use simple green and various polishes to get my reels back to their original luster.
I have used Vinegar, just not recently.
The other products I use are Turtle wax chrome polish, Nev-r Dull, and Mothers Mag wheel polish to really bring them back.
Some elbow grease and determination. ;)
Daron,
Try the CLR and a brass brush like I have just discovered. It's like a miracle..... trust me, but report back. I'm interested in your opinion.... I found an old ultrasonic jewelry cleaner we had bought many moons ago - I clean with Simple Green - it's OK for the smaller parts, but a side plate doesn't fit.... but it's the smaller pieces that are harder to clean from the get go, and it's working well on them...
Quote from: Marlinmate on January 02, 2016, 03:24:45 AM
What does it do? How does it work? Do i need to do it? Are there other options? What is the mixture? 50:50?
I get the feeling that once corrosion starts...it isn't curable. So what does a vinegar/water bath provide?
Talking about corrosion removal on Penn Trim rings or cross bars or brass/chrome spools.
Any advice or guidance?
Au contraire Monsieur! Corrosion can be totally removed, stopped in it's tracks and the reel be keep corrosion free forever more with regular care! :D
The chromed trim rings and cross bars are sometimes pitted, but a weak acid bath (vinegar is popular as it happens to be handy in the kitchen) removes the corrosion completely as well as "penetrating oils" like Corrosion-X and other popular ones. You do have to be careful as some alloys with Zinc in them can be pitted by weak acid and other rust removers are a better choice.
If you do have pitting in your chrome you can still keep the reel corrosion free if you don't mind a light grease coating on those parts (like favorite tools for working on the car).
With regular rinses with freshwater and wipe downs with a little oil/grease they can be kept in a steady corrosion free state as long as you take the time. ;D
Good point John, it's all about not getting lazy when you get back home from fishing. A little rinse and a light coating of your favorite oil will keeps them happy for a long time.
I spray the reel and rod with a fine mist and let them dry, I will then lightly coat both with some reel-X, making sure the eyes on the rod get a good coating as well.
Simple Green as been working for me, I usually soak the parts for a day and rinse them in some warm water.
Not long ago I did try another product and was impressed with the great job it did on the parts.
You can't tell from the pics that I will post soon, but those parts look new when done.
The product is : Advanced Lysol Toilet Bowl Cleaner.
The problem with this stuff, the smell bothers me, if you're going to give it a try, I recommend you do it outdoors.
I use a container with a screw top, I soak the parts in it for a couple of hours, I would then lightly scrub them with a toothbrush under warm running water and set them aside on a towel.
Again, a light coating of oil or grease will keep them happy.
Here are the pics of the before and after:
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/004_35.jpg) (http://s1101.photobucket.com/user/pescatore1/media/004_35.jpg.html)
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/003_38.jpg) (http://s1101.photobucket.com/user/pescatore1/media/003_38.jpg.html)
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/008_30.jpg) (http://s1101.photobucket.com/user/pescatore1/media/008_30.jpg.html)
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/006_31.jpg) (http://s1101.photobucket.com/user/pescatore1/media/006_31.jpg.html)
Sal
I've been using a mix of Dawn and vinegar to clean/degrease. Been very happy with it overall.
I use Simple Green soak, then sonic cleaner, then brass/bronze parts soak in vineger, chrome treated with locate chrome brightener (weak muratic acid gel), steel treated with steel rust remover jelly.
I like the CLR idea, just used it on one of my dad'said reals because it was handy. I also like Sal's toilet bowl cleaner idea. I used to clean up the boat with toilet bowl cleaner before winter storage and it does work on rust stains.
Also like John'so response.
Good advice, as always.
I use Salt-X, mixed about 8 or 10 to 1. It's not as fast as vinegar but it doesn't stink up the shop and is much less damaging if the parts are left in too long. I like it so much that I jump through several steps to get it shipped up here to Alaska. BTW: For some reason Salt Away doesn't work nearly as well.
I use vinegar to remove corrosion all the time. It works but it stinks though. I forgot about a a pair of cheap pliers in a vinegar bath, it sat for around a week. It ended up ruining the finish on the outside. I wouldn't leave stuff in there for too long.
A customer brought in some zinc spinning reel parts he soaked overnight. I could barely recognize them. 75% eaten away.
I use it but it's diluted with water and I keep track.
Quote from: handi2 on January 02, 2016, 11:44:48 PM
A customer brought in some zinc spinning reel parts he soaked overnight. I could barely recognize them. 75% eaten away.
I use it but it's diluted with water and I keep track.
I think zinc is the exception in that it dissolves quickly in acids; probably what makes it useful as a sacrificial anode. I'd not leave anything in straight vinegar longer than two hours.... make that, I've never needed to leave anything in straight vinegar longer than two hours. Now that I'm playing with the CLR bath and kitchen cleanser I'm getting the job done in a few seconds and rinse immediately in fresh water. And the work bench doesn't smell like a salad either.
Straight white vinegar is what I would use to remove corrosion from hilo guide...Works great on chrome, brass, and stainless...Good on aluminum, but may dull the finish on cast aluminum as well as the color/printed graphics of some plastics if soaked for too long...Horrible on zinc alloys as mentioned...Outcome generally depends on how deep the corrosion goes...I will pair like metals together and use plastic containers to soak the parts in--usually an hour or two at the most, less for aluminum and parts containing plastic..
(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/unchained_colors/Mobile%20Uploads/20151225_171052.jpg) (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/unchained_colors/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20151225_171052.jpg.html)
(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/unchained_colors/Mobile%20Uploads/20151223_170835.jpg) (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/unchained_colors/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20151223_170835.jpg.html)
-Chad
OK...so I'm going to get some apple cider vinegar, and do 1:1 parts vinegar/water. Where does the baking soda come in?
Then I'm going to place the following Penn 6/0 parts in this mixture: spools, posts, trim rings, seat, handle arm, drag star.
And leave in for approximately 2 hours? Then thouroughly rinse everything with warm fresh water and some liquid dish soap....and be done
Sound like a plan?
Quote from: Marlinmate on January 04, 2016, 02:37:42 PM
OK...so I'm going to get some apple cider vinegar, and do 1:1 parts vinegar/water. Where does the baking soda come in?
Then I'm going to place the following Penn 6/0 parts in this mixture: spools, posts, trim rings, seat, handle arm, drag star.
And leave in for approximately 2 hours? Then thouroughly rinse everything with warm fresh water and some liquid dish soap....and be done
Sound like a plan?
You won't be done but that's a good start. If the parts are pitted they will still be pitted with brass spots showing. A soft brass brush will help also. Plus super fine steel wool and CorrosionX oil or others oils. Clean the parts again after using the 0000 steel wool.
Quote from: Marlinmate on January 04, 2016, 02:37:42 PM
OK...so I'm going to get some apple cider vinegar, and do 1:1 parts vinegar/water. Where does the baking soda come in?
Apple cider vinegar is relatively mild compared to white...It will work but not as efficiently and seems to take longer, at least that was the result I recall when trying it, (full strength, undiluted)...Soak time and parts combination sounds good, watch the handle knob though as sometimes (not often) it will fade if already weathered and need to be polished...Baking soda won't remove corrosion the way vinegar does, but its abrasive properties help with scrubbing out stains/tarnish etc; I use one of those scratch-free dishwashing sponges and dawn..
Chad
Quote from: sdlehr on January 02, 2016, 04:56:29 AM
I've been using CLR Bath and Kitchen Cleaner and a brass brush on the brass in my last few reels - and it's the bomb! I use the CLR on the chrome, also, but not with the brass brush. It removes the verdigris much more rapidly than the vinegar does. It takes literally seconds to remove oxidation that used to take considerable polishing effort.
Where do you find that product, CLR?
I need to keep an eye out for it, sounds amazing..
Chad
Quote from: cbar45 on January 04, 2016, 10:02:22 PM
Quote from: sdlehr on January 02, 2016, 04:56:29 AM
I've been using CLR Bath and Kitchen Cleaner and a brass brush on the brass in my last few reels - and it's the bomb! I use the CLR on the chrome, also, but not with the brass brush. It removes the verdigris much more rapidly than the vinegar does. It takes literally seconds to remove oxidation that used to take considerable polishing effort.
Where do you find that product, CLR?
I need to keep an eye out for it, sounds amazing..
Chad
I just did a quick google search on it and the PDF on it is has some pretty good warnings. NOT plastic safe, will eat your colored grout etc...So pretty caustic stuff (makes sense as it works fast).
Just be careful and I would use gloves and eye protection when using it.
One nice thing about vinegar is you can eat it, so it can't be that bad for you. :) Of course, vinegar or lemon juice in the eye is no fun but can be rinsed quickly with no lasting harm.
Appreciate the info John, good reminder to research and read the MSDS of chemical-based products before proceeding..
Chad
I like to toss the funky parts in a tub of simple green and forget them for a week, then lightly brush and polish them up.
seems to do the job so far and I dont have to scrub anything to hard.
Im lazy!
Quote from: David Hall on January 04, 2016, 10:56:15 PM
I like to toss the funky parts in a tub of simple green and forget them for a week, then lightly brush and polish them up.
seems to do the job so far and I dont have to scrub anything to hard.
Im lazy!
Careful, some stuff comes out with a green tint that you can't get out. :)
Quote from: johndtuttle on January 04, 2016, 11:34:12 PM
Quote from: David Hall on January 04, 2016, 10:56:15 PM
I like to toss the funky parts in a tub of simple green and forget them for a week, then lightly brush and polish them up.
seems to do the job so far and I dont have to scrub anything to hard.
Im lazy!
Careful, some stuff comes out with a green tint that you can't get out. :)
yep, using vinegar non diluted is asking for it. only time I do that is when I'm using a toothbrush to get nooks and crannys, then quick rinse.
I also suspect the huge big game reel pictured on page 1 took a whole lot more than vinegar to get that end result. Looks like an old german silver reel, and a beauty at that. Would like to see more about your restoration Chad. It turned out spectacular !!
Thanks Max, here you go:
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=7675.0
Vinegar has been used for cleaning for at least a hundred years. It was always on the dining table as a condiment and probably a "sterilizer" before refrigeration. Meats had a tendancy towards rancid before refrigeration and was treated with some vinegar after it was a few days old.
Vinegar has been used for cleaning for at least a hundred years. It was always on the dining table as a condiment and probably a "sterilizer" before refrigeration. Meats had a tendency towards rancid before refrigeration and was treated with some vinegar after it was a few days old.
Most old-time cleaning & health recipes included vinegar. Many home recipes for cleaning windows or counter tops or whatever usually contained some type of vinegar and many still do--probably the working ingredient in store bought cleansers still contain vinegar. That being said, I don't know how much straight vinegar I would use on my reels--at least for an extended length of time. All the new soaps, cleaners, etc I will try but usually not for long periods. If the corrosion etc is really bad, I figure its time for a lot of elbow grease. That being said I do not do LOTS of reels and usually only for family and friends. You see many of our members (like Ted) who have used reels that look better than new. I would follow their lead and use what ever they are using, because many of their reels look better than new.
TomT
Quote from: Max Doubt on January 05, 2016, 12:28:38 AM
yep, using vinegar non diluted is asking for it. only time I do that is when I'm using a toothbrush to get nooks and crannys, then quick rinse.
I don't think any harm will come from a two-hour soak in straight vinegar. I've done it many times. The ORCA book recommends straight vinegar (and those guys are hard core). Just make sure to rinse in water with baking soda added to neutralize whatever acid is left, and make sure to get the rinse into the post holes so no acid remains behind un-neutralized.
Quote from: cbar45 on January 04, 2016, 10:02:22 PM
Where do you find that product, CLR?
I need to keep an eye out for it, sounds amazing..
Chad
I think it's in the grocery stores.... for cleaning around the house.... we had it in the house already, and I didn't buy it. There's also a CLR industrial strength to be used on iron stains and scale deposits outside... I wouldn't use that undiluted without some testing first.
CLR stands for Calcium, Lime, Rust Remover.
Guys at work run it through their coffee pots.
I don't drink coffee unless I made it at home.
I have enough cleaners, degreasers and polishes.
These are what I use, and I think that is all I need.
Simple Green is a staple. I don't use it that often. only when a really dirty reel needs attention.
Sal uses it, and that is good enough for me. Just takes a long soak to work to its full potential.
Turtle wax chrome polish. My go to. Very easy to use and polishes up that tarnished chrome, lickety split.
Nev-R Dull is a time consuming process. Ted uses it. That is why his reels sparkle like no other.
It is quite stinky, smells like kerosene, but works really well if you have the patience.
For polishing stainless, I use Mothers Mag wheel polish. This stuff works great.
You can polish by hand, or if you want it to sparkle, you have to break out the buffing wheels.
As far as getting really dirty parts clean in a hurry, I use Brake Cleaner or a Coleman fuel Soak to get the cruddy baked on grease and grime off in a hurry with a tooth brush.
As far as Lubricants. Penn Blue for the internals, Cal's for the drags, Reel X for all other bearing and sleeve slickery. ;)
Quote from: Shark Hunter on January 05, 2016, 07:16:39 AM
CLR stands for Calcium, Lime, Rust Remover.
Guys at work run it through their coffee pots.
I don't drink coffee unless I made it at home.
I have enough cleaners, degreasers and polishes.
These are what I use, and I think that is all I need.
Simple Green is a staple. I don't use it that often. only when a really dirty reel needs attention.
Sal uses it, and that is good enough for me. Just takes a long soak to work to its full potential.
Turtle wax chrome polish. My go to. Very easy to use and polishes up that tarnished chrome, lickety split.
Nev-R Dull is a time consuming process. Ted uses it. That is why his reels sparkle like no other.
It is quite stinky, smells like kerosene, but works really well if you have the patience.
For polishing stainless, I use Mothers Mag wheel polish. This stuff works great.
You can polish by hand, or if you want it to sparkle, you have to break out the buffing wheels.
As far as getting really dirty parts clean in a hurry, I use Brake Cleaner or a Coleman fuel Soak to get the cruddy baked on grease and grime off in a hurry with a tooth brush.
As far as Lubricants. Penn Blue for the internals, Cal's for the drags, Reel X for all other bearing and sleeve slickery. ;)
Nice breakdown of the various cleaners/polishes used in reel repair SharkHunter...I have also tried automotive wheel polish on stainless...Not Mothers though--I think it was Meguiar's--and the results were spectacular.
Chad, I can't believe how nice that reel came out. Night and day. Nice work.
I checked out the other thread you linked. When you clean the chrome with WD-40 do you use a brass brush to get the tarnish off. I use the same process but I've never gotten one that clean before.
Vinegar, for me, has its place --
However, I only use it to remove and arrest the Verdigris (Green corrosion that attacks bronze, brass, and copper) process. The pits will still be there -- but the corrosion process will be stopped from continuing permanently.
The other place it is of use to me, is to gently loosen very old screws or pieces from ancient reels.
In many cases, a gentle overnight bath is the ticket -- before attempting a breakdown on parts made of Unobtanium or Unreplacium. Particularly good on German Silver, Nickel, etc.
In any case, I leave the parts in only as long as necessary -- and use a 50/50 mix of straight white vinegar and water. Monitor closely, and remove as soon as the job is done -- rinse with warm water -- dry with a blow dryer -- then use the exact proper hollow ground screwdriver -- a firm, focused application of torque -- and a little luck and experience usually win the day.
Another last step on really tough to remove screws -- after the vinegar -- would be to soak in MINERAL SPIRITS, for a day, or so. Then, so as to not booger up the screw slot -- try to tighten the screw just a bit, instead of just trying to remove it. It is generally enough to just break loose the sticking screw -- then back out carefully by hand.
Vinegar is a tool to be used carefully -- since on many parts -- it will cause discoloring, or a major job of cleaning afterwards with the common things we use already.
Just my opinion.
Best,
Fred
I was told about Vinegar in the last 100 Yrs. to loosen Brass over Chrome Rod Ferrules from Reel Seats. I never had much luck with it. Ended up heating the Ferrule & remove it. Then remove the Reel seat the same way. Used a 3/4" Dowel & Hammer - that did the job. I only buy 1 piece rods now.
I found Vinegar 1/2 & 1/2 works better on Reels. Yes I have over soaked Reel parts.
Mie
Oversoaking is definitely bad with any of the corrosion removers.
*sniffle* I miss you, lil 5500SS... (At least it was MY reel I kilt with the Corrosion X Rust Remover)
Hi Mo. So sorry for your loss. ;)
What an awful overflow mess that was too...the chemical reaction was amazing! It bubbled right over.
Straight up vinegar in short soaks is the most I'll ever do, but those short soaks and a quick toothbrush job will work good on built up green deposits.
Here is my soaker bowl that WAS ;D ;D straight vinegar. I laid a large brass salmon spoon in it then let the vinegar evaporate over several weeks. All that remained was what the vinegar had removed from the parts I had put in there. Before the vinegar evaporated it just looked like green colored vinegar, no chunks or anything visible. This dried up green stuff is hard as granite and stuck like glue. I used a soup spoon to scrape most off the glass bowl.
I do have another followup coming as the spoon is now soaking in clean vinegar again
Same spoon 20 minute straight vinegar soak. No toothbrush, or anything, just vinegar soak....and it also took the green corrosion off my wifes dish from her kitchen 8). As long as she doesn't read this thread, she will never know what her salad bowl had been thru ;) ;)
Remember the phrase "you can't make tenderloin out of ground round", that holds true for a reel that has been neglected and put away wet, the vinegar will neutralize and prevent any further corrosion, but returning it to as new just isn't going to happen with a nickel plated reel.
Nice Ted... can't get much clearer then that.
Get it.."Clearer" :)
Quote from: Max Doubt on January 06, 2016, 09:46:46 PM
Straight up vinegar in short soaks is the most I'll ever do, but those short soaks and a quick toothbrush job will work good on built up green deposits.
Here is my soaker bowl that WAS ;D ;D straight vinegar. I laid a large brass salmon spoon in it then let the vinegar evaporate over several weeks. All that remained was what the vinegar had removed from the parts I had put in there. Before the vinegar evaporated it just looked like green colored vinegar, no chunks or anything visible. This dried up green stuff is hard as granite and stuck like glue. I used a soup spoon to scrape most off the glass bowl.
I do have another followup coming as the spoon is now soaking in clean vinegar again
So, what you have probably have created there is a standard battery (electrochemical cell) where the acid (vinegar) is catalyzing the consumption of electrons of the cathode (brass) and supplying them to the anode (stainless rings).
Eventually, if left in there too long the oxidized Brass is not only removed but it starts consuming the healthy brass in an accelerated corrosion like process.
This is why we like to insulate parts with grease when dissimilar metals are in contact. It prevents saltwater from helping the exchange of electrons and the resulting disintegration of the refined metal.
Regardless, it is a great demonstration of the power of even weak acids (remember, a little lime juice will cook fish in time) and a good warning to use it after tests etc to not damage your parts.
Also, and especially important, be very careful soaking parts that contain dissimilar metals....it will lead to accelerated corrosion as we see here, not the removal of corrosion.
Quote from: Max Doubt on January 06, 2016, 09:54:39 PM
....and it also took the green corrosion off my wifes dish from her kitchen 8). As long as she doesn't read this thread, she will never know what her salad bowl had had been thru ;D ;D
Let me know how that works for you, Ted -- Wives always know, not sure how -- but it is a fact of life.
Yesterday, Sue came down from my reel shop, and she sez: "I see you have been using my Pyrex pie plates for cleaning reels".
This wasn't a question to her, it was a statement of fact.
When I explained that these were the ones that belonged to her Mom, and we were going to donate to the Veterans Store...and I kept a few useful things for cleaning reels, before dropping off the stuff at the Veterans -- she still did not believe me until she went to her cupboard to see that hers were still there.
Not sure if I passed the "test", or not -- but she is always suspicious.
It is their nature to always keep us on our toes -- and we must always have ironclad, and quick responses.
And even then, it does not always work.
In her defense, she did say that if I wanted to use hers -- I was welcome to, and she would just buy some new ones.
Best,
Fred
You're right Fred. After 30 years and still happily married, I'd say the main reason we are still together and happy is she has some sort of super power and can always tell when something is up.
I stay away from her moms pie tins, those are for pies only. Paper plates and bowls she has no attachment to are my choice ;) ;)
Quote from: fatstriper on January 06, 2016, 04:40:44 PM
Chad, I can't believe how nice that reel came out. Night and day. Nice work.
I checked out the other thread you linked. When you clean the chrome with WD-40 do you use a brass brush to get the tarnish off. I use the same process but I've never gotten one that clean before.
A stiff-bristled toothbrush and scratch-free scotchbrite pad are used during the de-greasing process to remove gummed up oil and loose tarnish...For scrubbing the parts (after soaking), I use a bit of soapy water and a second scratch-free dishwashing sponge...It's one of those regular sponges covered in a textured nylon or polymer type of material..
It did take more than one soaking and scrubbing of the crossbars to remove all tarnish...For heavy corrosion I seem to get better results soaking parts for 30 min, scrubbing for 5 min, and re-soaking for 30 min--compared to an hour-long soak and scrub...For stubborn areas I will sometimes use very fine steel wool, but you need to make sure the part is thoroughly cleaned of steel dust/residue prior to soaking in vinegar..
It's the Natural Guilty Look on our faces that gives us away. Ted I have you beat by 16yrs. @ 46Yrs.
Mike
I don't envy you salt water guys. The worst I see in freshwater reels is "petrified " grease and reels so dry of lubricant you only need compressed air to blow out the dust😀
Come across very little corrosion. Lucky me.
Quote from: cbar45 on January 06, 2016, 11:38:02 PM
Quote from: fatstriper on January 06, 2016, 04:40:44 PM
Chad, I can't believe how nice that reel came out. Night and day. Nice work.
I checked out the other thread you linked. When you clean the chrome with WD-40 do you use a brass brush to get the tarnish off. I use the same process but I've never gotten one that clean before.
A stiff-bristled toothbrush and scratch-free scotchbrite pad are used during the de-greasing process to remove gummed up oil and loose tarnish...For scrubbing the parts (after soaking), I use a bit of soapy water and a second scratch-free dishwashing sponge...It's one of those regular sponges covered in a textured nylon or polymer type of material..
You do some nice work. Thanks for the write up.
It did take more than one soaking and scrubbing of the crossbars to remove all tarnish...For heavy corrosion I seem to get better results soaking parts for 30 min, scrubbing for 5 min, and re-soaking for 30 min--compared to an hour-long soak and scrub...For stubborn areas I will sometimes use very fine steel wool, but you need to make sure the part is thoroughly cleaned of steel dust/residue prior to soaking in vinegar..
Quote from: bluefish69 on January 07, 2016, 01:27:45 AM
It's the Natural Guilty Look on our faces that gives us away. Ted I have you beat by 16yrs. @ 46Yrs.
Mike
You my friend may just be the master at marriage on our little forum site!
I'm not far behind you, will be 43 next August, but I never know when or for what I'm in trouble for, all I know s I'm in trouble and If I know what's good for me I will come up with something special for her birthday at the end of this month!
Me too. 43 years in Aug
55 years last week!! :D
TomT
Usually, in most discussions on duration of marriage, I'm the leader at 36 years.... you guys must be really old.... ;D
Sid
Married 36 years, going on 100.
Sid,
I can't speak for the others, but I am just a kid--will be 75 this month!! ;D ;)
TomT
Tom
I'm 5 behind you.
60 the end of this month. Born on leap-year, I'll have a real birthday this year, but technically only my 15th. Either way I'm the youngster in this battle of marriage duration, and I was just kidding you guys about being really old, because I knew you had to be older than me married all those years (of bliss, I'm sure).
This almost looks like a bid war on age. ;D I'll throw my hat in the ring. I'll be 76 on Friday. Who is the oldest reel repairman or woman on this sight? Rudy
Quote from: sdlehr on January 02, 2016, 04:56:29 AM
I've been using CLR Bath and Kitchen Cleaner and a brass brush on the brass in my last few reels - and it's the bomb! I use the CLR on the chrome, also, but not with the brass brush. It removes the verdigris much more rapidly than the vinegar does. It takes literally seconds to remove oxidation that used to take considerable polishing effort.
(http://i1379.photobucket.com/albums/ah127/sdlehr/e49aa60d-a5cf-41e3-a736-c933d22e526e_zpsgeqr6n2w.jpg) (http://s1379.photobucket.com/user/sdlehr/media/e49aa60d-a5cf-41e3-a736-c933d22e526e_zpsgeqr6n2w.jpg.html)
Heh, quoting my own post. I bought another bottle of this stuff at Home Depot, and it smells differently and doesn't work as quickly as the bottle purchased probably a year or more ago. I'm sure they've changed the formula, and it still does a really good job of removing the oxidized surface on the metal, but I'm not as amazed with this presumed new formulation as I was with the older....
I picked up a 249 recently to put on a shelf as kind of a decoration. I'd like to clean it up and was thinking about soaking the metal parts in vinegar, but I'm not sure about the handle. It has a wooden knob. Will vinegar damage the knob? Is there a better way to clean up the handle without harming the wooden knob? The metal part of the handle has a bit of green corrosion on it.
Quote from: BryanC on January 13, 2016, 07:58:41 PM
I picked up a 249 recently to put on a shelf as kind of a decoration. I'd like to clean it up and was thinking about soaking the metal parts in vinegar, but I'm not sure about the handle. It has a wooden knob. Will vinegar damage the knob? Is there a better way to clean up the handle without harming the wooden knob? The metal part of the handle has a bit of green corrosion on it.
I wouldn't put the wood in the vinegar. Wood is porous and I can't imagine it would be good for the finish on it.
You could do a shallow bath and just wrap the knob up really well.
Don't put the wooden knob in Simple Green. I learned the hard way; it removed the finish, didn't harm the wood. Maybe wrap a cloth soaked in vinegar around the crank and keep it from contacting the knob. In vinegar I find that 2 hours provides the same results as much longer; in other words, I've never needed to soak metal in vinegar longer than two hours. Maybe I'll find an exception one day. So far, so good.
Sid
SE FL
Quote from: sdlehr on January 13, 2016, 03:05:29 PM
Quote from: sdlehr on January 02, 2016, 04:56:29 AM
I've been using CLR Bath and Kitchen Cleaner and a brass brush on the brass in my last few reels - and it's the bomb! I use the CLR on the chrome, also, but not with the brass brush. It removes the verdigris much more rapidly than the vinegar does. It takes literally seconds to remove oxidation that used to take considerable polishing effort.
(http://i1379.photobucket.com/albums/ah127/sdlehr/e49aa60d-a5cf-41e3-a736-c933d22e526e_zpsgeqr6n2w.jpg) (http://s1379.photobucket.com/user/sdlehr/media/e49aa60d-a5cf-41e3-a736-c933d22e526e_zpsgeqr6n2w.jpg.html)
Heh, quoting my own post. I bought another bottle of this stuff at Home Depot, and it smells differently and doesn't work as quickly as the bottle purchased probably a year or more ago. I'm sure they've changed the formula, and it still does a really good job of removing the oxidized surface on the metal, but I'm not as amazed with this presumed new formulation as I was with the older....
Maybe the company dudes got scared after learning that Daron's co-workers use CLR in their coffee machine... :D
Chad
I work with some serious Hillbilly's Chad. I am from Kentucky. :D
I am more of a City Boy, but you only have to drive about 10 miles south to hear a whole different language.
Just as long as I don't hear the words, "Can you squeal like a pig?"...
Not that language Sid.
I mean a more country twang to their speech.
No pig squealing.
Quote from: BryanC on January 13, 2016, 07:58:41 PM
I picked up a 249 recently to put on a shelf as kind of a decoration. I'd like to clean it up and was thinking about soaking the metal parts in vinegar, but I'm not sure about the handle. It has a wooden knob. Will vinegar damage the knob? Is there a better way to clean up the handle without harming the wooden knob? The metal part of the handle has a bit of green corrosion on it.
Take an old toothbrush and dip it in straight vinegar and brush away the green deposits that are close to the wood knob. Definitely do not want to soak that knob in anything, wrapped up or not.
Vinegar-toothbrush, problem solved :)
Quote from: Shark Hunter on January 15, 2016, 07:32:20 AM
Not that language Sid.
I mean a more country twang to their speech.
No pig squealing.
That's a relief! When I hear the term hillbilly I think of the movie Deliverance (for anyone that didn't get my reference).
Sid
Two old sayings come to my thought when thinking about hillbillies and rednecks --
I have a lot of respect for hillbillies and rednecks -- this is all in good fun -- and the hundreds of clever uses for duct tape and vice grips -- is amazing.
(Just so we can get further off track on this thread, sorry!)
The first actually confirms and proves Darwin's theory about evolution and survival of a species --
"Redneck Famous last words -- Hold my beer, and watch this!"
Other old joke --
"Have you been busy? -- Man...I've been busier than a set of jumper cables at a Hillbilly funeral".
Best,
Fred
Quote from: Max Doubt on January 15, 2016, 06:21:21 PM
Quote from: BryanC on January 13, 2016, 07:58:41 PM
I picked up a 249 recently to put on a shelf as kind of a decoration. I'd like to clean it up and was thinking about soaking the metal parts in vinegar, but I'm not sure about the handle. It has a wooden knob. Will vinegar damage the knob? Is there a better way to clean up the handle without harming the wooden knob? The metal part of the handle has a bit of green corrosion on it.
Take an old toothbrush and dip it in straight vinegar and brush away the green deposits that are close to the wood knob. Definitely do not want to soak that knob in anything, wrapped up or not.
Vinegar-toothbrush, problem solved :)
Corrosion-X and a tooth brush scrub works too. I only use vinegar for a large collection of parts or severe cases.
Can I use vinegar to clean the rust of this main gear from shimano Trinidad A? I clean the reel after every trip with tap water and the gear is rusted on the back side only for unknown reason. I am not sure what kind of coating is on the gear thought, so will it be ok to soak the gear in vinegar?
What does it do? How does it work?
I'll post a few pH numbers for some of the acids found in vinegar and easily available household cleaners. pH ranges from 0 (strong acid) to 14 (strong base).
Vinegar (5-6% acetic acid) is, for these purposes, 1 N, 1 Normal, 1 mole per liter, 60 grams of acid per liter of water (four ways of saying the same thing).
1 N Acetic acid (vinegar) pH 2.4
0.1 N Acetic acid (1 part vinegar to 10 parts water) pH 2.9
0.1 N Citric acid (some other shower/toilet/tile cleaners) pH 2.2
0.1 N Lactic acid (CLR) pH 2.4
1N Sulfuric acid (acid drain cleaner diluted with 12 parts water) pH 0.3
1N Hydrochloric (Muriatic acid from the swimming pool section of Home Depot diluted with water) pH 0.1
Acetic, citric, and lactic acids are weak organic (carboxylic) acids. Sulfuric and hydrochloric are strong inorganic acids.
Two things happen when using carboxylic acids to remove "verdigris" (great word, Sid). First, the carboxylate chelates the already-oxidized metal (corrosion and other blue/green stuff), especially copper +2 ions. There is a visible color change when the copper complex forms to a deeper blue (especially noticeable with ligands like EDTA or pyridine). The second is the action of the H+ on a base metal M0. Acid oxidizes more of the base metal at the surface. Left to soak, it can remove several more layers of the metal at the molecular level, hence the clean shiny surface. Great on looks, but no so good for tolerances.
Mixing the vinegar with baking soda neutralizes the acid, but leaves the acetate to act as a mono-dentate ligand. (Sorry for the big chemistry words. Chelation is probably 1st year graduate level, so Master's student level.) It still dissolves the metal salts, but doesn't oxidize more base metal. It doesn't harm the patina on the brass.
Those dark surfaces, surface metal oxides or carbonates, are not typically bad things and sometimes are very good. Bluing on a firearm is controlled oxidation process. Anodized aluminum is a controlled oxidation process. Both leave a protected and sometimes, harder surface.
Looking briefly at Red-Ox potentials, copper is easily oxidized, chrome and stainless less so. I'd probably tell the new guy vinegar is ok on internal parts and chrome parts, but a long soak on fine surfaces, especially brass, copper alloy, or aluminum isn't recommended. With this proviso, I don't treat metals for a career. I see this from my own prism. However, I'm not going to clean an old Henry rifle or a Colt revolver with vinegar to make it shiny again.
Moving on slightly and remarking on the other comments. What do you guys do with your dirty cleaning and degreasing solutions?? Lots of water? Down the drain?? Flush and forget?? I've found that many city dwellers tend to use the sewer and make it "somone else's problem." Country dwellers who aren't connected to the sewer, if they're informed, are forced to make a choice. They own their own septic tank and leach field, and pump their own water from a well. I am one of the latter and tend to take great care with what goes down the drain and back into the water table.
Better disposal practices might be worthy of a reasoned conversation.
Some people are extremely sensitive to pH. The book Alkalize or Die by Dr. Theodore Baroody contains some interesting information on pH and modern food.
Quote from: wltklah on June 13, 2016, 06:57:15 AM
Can I use vinegar to clean the rust of this main gear from shimano Trinidad A? I clean the reel after every trip with tap water and the gear is rusted on the back side only for unknown reason. I am not sure what kind of coating is on the gear thought, so will it be ok to soak the gear in vinegar?
Those are stains and cannot be removed. My guess is the surface was never greased or oiled and very minimal water can cause those stains. It's all cosmetic, as it will still function as designed. To prevent additional staining, just grease or oil all internal surfaces.
Ted
Quote from: wltklah on June 13, 2016, 06:57:15 AM
Can I use vinegar to clean the rust of this main gear from shimano Trinidad A? I clean the reel after every trip with tap water and the gear is rusted on the back side only for unknown reason. I am not sure what kind of coating is on the gear thought, so will it be ok to soak the gear in vinegar?
When you rinse your reel in fresh water you don't rinse the internals. :)
Regardless, the fine patina that you see is from salt but is only cosmetic. Well grease all internal parts and don't worry about it. If you use a penetrating oil or grease with some in it (like corrosion-x grease) or by adding some corrosion-x oil to your grease, it will slowly remove it.
I've used Barkeepers Friend to remove rust stains. It will even get them out of fiberglass. It will really clean up a rusted steel gear but I don't know how hard it would be on sideplates etc. It will remove the rust but it won't help with pits. Bob
Vinegar works great for removal of corrosion deposits...but I'm finding the level of corrosion damage will directly affect your appearance results. No one has really shown a comparison between deeply corroded parts and light corrosion, so I'll make an attempt. The level of damage is the difference between a successful cleaning...or just a better look at how trashed your parts really are! :D
Below are some pics of before and after vinegar soaks. The first pic is a severely corroded Beachmaster 155, and the second pic is the bling rings and posts from that reel after a vinegar soak. The deep corrosion had gone through the chrome...so it was removed right along with the green stuff! :o
The third pic is a Surfmaster 250 with light corrosion, and the fourth pic is the spool, stand, and posts from it after a vinegar soak.(disregard side plates and rings...parts are mounted in a different reel) In this case corrosion hadn't fully penetrated the chrome...and results were much better! ;D
MO, pretty sure what is happening is the chrome is not corroding, but the brass underneath is. Scratches in the chrome, even small ones, expose the brass to salt, and the corrosion process begins. If caught earlier, results could look like your second reel. If caught later, you get the results of the first reel. I believe there's a time factor involved that explains the difference.
Sid
Quote from: sdlehr on September 19, 2016, 03:10:21 PM
MO, pretty sure what is happening is the chrome is not corroding, but the brass underneath is.
Exactly...and when allowed to fester...corrosion pushes the chrome up and it flakes right off. Penn parts have some pretty thin chrome from the git go, and that doesn't help matters. Also, from what I've read, joining of dissimilar metals is what starts electrolysis. This must explain why plated brass parts like posts always seem to be way worse than the plain brass parts like a yoke or bridge.
Quote from: sdlehr on January 15, 2016, 06:38:25 AM
Just as long as I don't hear the words, "Can you squeal like a pig?"...
If you hear Banjo music, paddle faster . . . But, if you flip your canoe, try another strategy !
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntC0xJo2bSU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntC0xJo2bSU)
I been using a vinegar solution to clean the coolers for my boat as well as the propellor and outdrive wash tube.
Mix 1 part vinegar with 2 parts water in my big ole crab boiler, drop the part in bring to a boil and everything just disappears, rinse well with fresh water and a light brushing and presto, clean as a whistle. Time will tell if I'm damaging the cooling tubes I guess but at least they're getting unclogged and cleaned out.
Quote from: johndtuttle on June 13, 2016, 06:49:03 PM
Quote from: wltklah on June 13, 2016, 06:57:15 AM
Can I use vinegar to clean the rust of this main gear from shimano Trinidad A? I clean the reel after every trip with tap water and the gear is rusted on the back side only for unknown reason. I am not sure what kind of coating is on the gear thought, so will it be ok to soak the gear in vinegar?
When you rinse your reel in fresh water you don't rinse the internals. :)
Regardless, the fine patina that you see is from salt but is only cosmetic. Well grease all internal parts and don't worry about it.
I know this was posted a while back but just picked up on the statement on the patina on the gears being from salt. I only work on fresh water reels and I see this all the time.
Quote from: Lunker Larry on January 02, 2017, 02:46:01 AM
I know this was posted a while back but just picked up on the statement on the patina on the gears being from salt. I only work on fresh water reels and I see this all the time.
There are salts in fresh water also, just not as much. My guess is they are due to that salt, not the type you are accustomed to thinking of on this forum.
Sid
anyone ever try vinegar and a hydrogen peroxide mix? 50/50