Not that it needed servicing at all, but I was bored the other day and stripped my Penn Fathom 15 star drag down to open and lube the spool bearings, clean and re grease everything. When I put it back together I noticed that with the star backed off all the way there was still a bit of drag. This was not present before. I have re checked this 4 times and I know I'm right on the assembly (even followed youtube video). My thinking is that the spring washer/bellvile on the handle side was never installed to achieve max drag.
What say you.
BT
(http://i743.photobucket.com/albums/xx76/fresnotim/100_3621_zpsakifpupv.jpg) (http://s743.photobucket.com/user/fresnotim/media/100_3621_zpsakifpupv.jpg.html)
(http://i743.photobucket.com/albums/xx76/fresnotim/100_3622_zpsda47blkr.jpg) (http://s743.photobucket.com/user/fresnotim/media/100_3622_zpsda47blkr.jpg.html)
(http://i743.photobucket.com/albums/xx76/fresnotim/100_3623_zpsskd1hswp.jpg) (http://s743.photobucket.com/user/fresnotim/media/100_3623_zpsskd1hswp.jpg.html)
(http://i743.photobucket.com/albums/xx76/fresnotim/100_3626_zpsh357dnus.jpg) (http://s743.photobucket.com/user/fresnotim/media/100_3626_zpsh357dnus.jpg.html)
Send it out for repair. ::) Dominick
Quote from: Dominick on January 22, 2016, 03:02:33 AM
Send it out for repair. ::) Dominick
Can I legally do that Dom.
From my understanding is that Penn ships the Fathom, Torque, Squall and other reels with the full drag capacities/belleville at their max for the most drag. In their reels if you want lighter drags is when you start to reconfigure the belleville washers. Not to say your reel didn't come with a lighter drag stack configuration but they should not come stock from the factory with anything other the max drag config for the belleville washers.
If the tolerances are nice and tight a generous greasing of the stack will make it a little larger. Until you really crank it down on a big fish it may have excess in the stack. Nothing to worry about if you have good free spool.
Quote from: Big Tim on January 22, 2016, 02:57:09 AMNot that it needed servicing at all, but I was bored...
Being "bored" was the first domino to calamity! ;)
Seriously, I've noticed that this happens a lot with many of my rebuilds even though the stack height of the new, DRY drag stack is approximately the same as the old drag stack being replaced. It becomes less of an issue, as John said, after the reels have their drags tighten down for a few good sessions.
I have seen them new with the bellvilles both ways () and ((.
Either remove the highlighted belleville washer altogether - or lessen the curvature of it. It sits on top of the star drags clicker plate. This alteration will gain the loose drag setting you desire. Personally I mic it first then I slightly flatten its curvature with a pair of universal pliers. ;)
I'm surprised to see that star drag clicker tongue in one piece. I see a lot of these succumb to metal fatigue and lose this clicking feature upon adjustment. Not the end of the world losing this feature, but it's one I like to remain functional.
Quote from: handi2 on February 07, 2016, 07:09:06 PM
I have seen them new with the bellvilles both ways () and ((.
This is the arrangement I see: () clicker plate ).
The two belleville washers have to be () on this reel, otherwise the tongue of the clicker plate can grind against the lip of the right side plates receptacle when operator is searching for a locked out drag (pulling from a snag). :-\
What is that white plastic spring loaded contraption on the left?
Ron
That is the a centrifugal brake plate and it houses spring loaded brake blocks/pucks. These can be activated/deactivated depending on necessity of spool control. If you have owned/serviced a Shimano Trinidad/Torium in the 14 sizes, the braking system is the same but without the spring loading.
The spool has to generate enough RPM's to counter the pre-tension of the springs for the b/blocks to nestle against the brake ring housed in the LH side plate to create friction i.e. cast control. This is why when bench testing freespool, the spool revolves for a long time even without line because it cannot counter the springs pre-tension so revolves friction free. ;)
Quote from: Fish-aholic on February 07, 2016, 09:23:32 PM
That is the a centrifugal brake plate and it houses spring loaded brake blocks/pucks. These can be activated/deactivated depending on necessity of spool control. If you have owned/serviced a Shimano Trinidad/Torium in the 14 sizes, the braking system is the same but without the spring loading.
The spool has to generate enough RPM's to counter the pre-tension of the springs for the b/blocks to nestle against the brake ring housed in the LH side plate to create friction i.e. cast control. This is why when bench testing freespool, the spool revolves for a long time even without line because it cannot counter the springs pre-tension so revolves friction free. ;)
And that is why I use an Albacore Special.
Thanks
Ron
Tim, did you seat the drag washers by tightening the star and pulling some line against the drag, tightening some more and and pulling again?
Mike
I hope the OP doesn't mind but I want to take the time to forewarn members/guests who may practise long distance surfcasting (bait & wait) about the design flaw of these centrifugal brake plates. I can only speak for those palm sized FTH 12 & 15 reels.
Here's what is wrong with this centrifugal brake plate design that many people here in the UK have experienced:
There are six spring loaded brake blocks/pucks which can be activated or deactivated via a snap function. The problem consistently arising from those who can generate enough distance/rpm's of the spool, is that any deactivated b/blocks can activate themselves whilst bait is in flight. This then causes the reel to become docile sacrificing distance from too much friction applied.
To combat this self-activation I have had to remove four b/blocks out of six leaving two behind as a casting aid. These are positioned to oppose one another in the 3 o'clock - 9 o'clock position, yet another issue arises. The b/blocks now suffer from premature wear due to the friction implemented from nestling against the accommodating brake ring. The b/blocks will either wear excessively where they become too short to reach the brake ring - or will totally disintegrate into fibres and be strewn all over the internals of the LH side plate. This premature wear causes the reel to become unruly therefore causing birds nests/crows nests. Not great for those who want consistent braking cast after cast.
To remedy this issue I have been installing b/blocks from other branded reels with great success (Shimano & Abu fibre b/blocks). Others are taking the route of purchasing aftermarket knobby mag units at greater cost. IMO, consumers should not have to find remedies for a flawed product that does not do what it says on the tin.
In the many FTH 12 & 15's I frequently service, I have seen the internals have been revised from the first generation with several changes. It's a shame the above centrifugal braking issue has been swept under the carpet and taken away from Penn's hands to be looked into and revised. >:(
Quote from: Fish-aholic on February 07, 2016, 07:18:26 PM
Quote from: handi2 on February 07, 2016, 07:09:06 PM
I have seen them new with the bellvilles both ways () and ((.
This is the arrangement I see: () clicker plate ).
The two belleville washers have to be () on this reel, otherwise the tongue of the clicker plate can grind against the lip of the right side plates receptacle when operator is searching for a locked out drag (pulling from a snag). :-\
Images of the only reel I have come across with the belleville washer orientation as ((
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc146/Chriscpb/macro/11_1.jpg)
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc146/Chriscpb/macro/13.jpg)
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc146/Chriscpb/macro/17.jpg)
This reel came to me after it was serviced by a 'specialist' reel repairer. My friend complained about binding issues when in search of more drag to pull traces out from rough ground snags and this is what I found.
If it's not the (( arrangement, then it must of been the poor instillation of the SD click spring ???
The travel with the star isn't much on the Fathom 25. I removed the washer on top, not the belleville, there was one on top and the reel did much better. I'm not sure the 15 is the same though.
These reels are new to me, but I do like them.
I had a similar problem on my Fathom 25LW with the click spring chewing the inside of the star drag wheel, the poor orientation of the small bellevile washer and the fact that an extra shim was present and wasn't giving me enough low drag. I wasn't a very happy bunny, having to replace the star drag wheel on a new reel.
I elected to get rid of the click spring and the extra shim, mount the small bellevile on top of the larger one. Now the reel has enough low drag and the new wheel won't suffer the fate of the previous one.
The problem started when the "specialist" messed up the large bellevile washer arrangement by butting them in the (( orientation, thus bringing the clicker assembly in contact with the sideplate boss edge.
This is how I install the click spring, replace SD and tuck the nose of the click spring inside and fasten the SD over it, not had any binding issues with this method:
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc146/Chriscpb/macro/110.jpg)
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc146/Chriscpb/macro/111.jpg)
I see this a lot:
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc146/Chriscpb/Fathomratchetwasherampspring2.jpg)
This is fine :) . I got rid of mine - the reel functions with zero issues.
Quote from: Fish-aholic on February 07, 2016, 07:11:07 PM
Either remove the belleville washer altogether - or lessen the curvature of the highlighted belleville washer that sits on top of the star drags clicker plate. This alteration will gain the loose drag you desire. Personally I mic it first then slightly flatten it with a pair of universal pliers. ;)
I'm surprised to see that star drag clicker tongue in one piece. I see a lot of these succumb to metal fatigue and lose this clicking feature upon adjustment. Not the end of the world losing this feature, but it's one I like to remain functional.
:D
Quote from: Fish-aholic on February 07, 2016, 11:57:44 PM
This is how I install the click spring, replace SD and tuck the nose of the click spring inside and fasten the SD over it, not had any binding issues with this method:
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc146/Chriscpb/macro/110.jpg)
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc146/Chriscpb/macro/111.jpg)
I see this a lot:
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc146/Chriscpb/Fathomratchetwasherampspring2.jpg)
Yep you have to tuck it in there..
What is the function of the clicker spring? I remember tossing the one on my Torium years ago.
I think I will remove the one from my wife`s 25LW. Prevention is better than cure.
Quote from: basto on February 09, 2016, 06:06:25 AM
What is the function of the clicker spring? I remember tossing the one on my Torium years ago.
I think I will remove the one from my wife`s 25LW. Prevention is better than cure.
Its a ratcheted operating star wheel; adjust and it ticks. Very useful for my bait & wait surf fishing needs.
Sorry, I'm a slow learner. In what way does the clicking of the star help you?
Sal
It's in regard to setting a baited trap, Sal.
Here in the UK we use 13'+ beachcasting rods - at times I use more than one rod - and these are anchored into a 6' aluminium tripod rod rest, not held. When targeting larger species, I engage the ratchet button on the LH side plate, fully unbutton the star wheel so the drag is at its least effect and readjust it accordingly to gain the correct amount of drag needed to a taught line. With a ratcheted star, I only need to count the amount of clicks it takes to achieve a correctly set bait trap so minor adjustments are easier to hear.
If it's not set correctly (too tight), the quarry could pull the tripod over and rods and reels could fall into the drink or on to rocks/sandy beaches from the venues I frequent. It's not just the quarry I have to worry about, sea debris is another concern, especially during huge spring tides. My 'baited trap' eliminates such scenarios.
I fish very strong tidal runs here (2nd highest tidal range in the world), so engaging the ratchet and putting the reel out of gear (freespool) will have the tidal-run pull unwanted excessive line. This is why I have to accommodate and set it with the use of the star wheel and a ratcheted star makes the setting process a whole lot faster (speed = more fish).
Hearing the reel pay out line and listening to the audio of a ticking/screaming ratchet is music to my ears. The sound of expensive equipment crashing to the ground causing untold damage, is not. It could easily be a session ender. >:(
I also can't afford to keep my eyes locked on to my rod tips, I have other things to do, like spare traces needing setting up and baiting. This is called double patting. I either retrieve a fish or washed out bait, unclip trace from my rod and quickly clip on a freshly baited one and sling it out into the drink in minimal time. This increases the time a baited trace lays on the sea bed thus increasing the chances of catching more fish. At some venues, I will only have a maximum of a couple of hours fishing before I can get cut off by the tide, in such situations time really is of the essence and has to be made the most of.
Thought I'd give you the bigger picture, than a simple paragraph. ;D
Very good explanation Steve, in your case its all about the clicking.
Now, when you say you have additional rods set up, do you mean more than two? I would think that would quickly get out of hands if you're by yourself.
A mere one minute into the below compilation video is the 'baited trap' being put to practice. I was targeting what you chaps know as gummy sharks (smooth-hounds to us) from rocks only exposed in the last hour and a half of an ebbing tide nearing low water. We have the same amount of time before the flooding tide pushes off it.
Double patting: When focusing the camera on the Saltist 20H with a gummy pulling against the ratchet, behind the handle is a pre-baited trace dangling below the tripod. Once the fish is landed, the trace is unclipped from my rod and fish is placed into a suitable sized rock pool where I can quickly clip on a spare trace and hastily send it out. Again, I can quickly set the bait trap and then deal with the fish (pic and weigh in a sling).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qv0c2DHcK4E
Yes, I'm a little munchkin slightly surpassing the 5' mark ;D
Quote from: Alto Mare on February 09, 2016, 01:39:33 PM
Very good explanation Steve, in your case its all about the clicking.
Now, when you say you have additional rods set up, do you mean more than two? I would think that would quickly get out of hands if you're by yourself.
It all depends on the venue fished and species targeted, Sal. I chose not to fish alone, it can be too dangerous.
Rough ground fishing involves terminal tackle losses, so using two rods is out of the question as this will double losses. One rod is preferred for gummy sharks as they can be abundant on the right tide. Two rods can be applied for clean sandy venues targeting species like rays and congers at differing distances. Manic fishing on those red letter days with two rods will quickly see one rod sitting idle and not fished. ;)
An example of having such a dilemma in having two bites going on at the same time in the above video (around 7 min mark). I just give priority to the rod that's giving the better bite indication out of the two.
I could also take a third light spinning outfit and float fish for smaller species, but this only occurs when the two beachcasters see little to no action. Horses for courses.
Apologies to the OP'er for the off topic posts!
Great Video,
I have seen it before.
It is all about the Triumph. No matter how big or small. ;D
I am fishing for Leviathans. I only have one reel in at a time.
My friends have their in there as well. That why I only run one.
We might have a four or five reel spread, but each has their own. ;)
Quote from: Fish-aholic on February 09, 2016, 10:57:20 AM
Quote from: basto on February 09, 2016, 06:06:25 AM
What is the function of the clicker spring? I remember tossing the one on my Torium years ago.
I think I will remove the one from my wife`s 25LW. Prevention is better than cure.
Its a ratcheted operating star wheel; adjust and it ticks. Very useful for my bait & wait surf fishing needs.
Thanks for your reply. You obviously have a need or use for the ratcheted star wheel.
We bottom fish with 50lb braid with our 25lw, so the drag is usually set and left at around 80% of max, so we can stop fish before they get to cover.
That is why we don`t need the ratchet in the star and if it is unreliable, I would rather be without it.
good fishing
Basto
Im not sure why the rachet on the star, so I figured it was a good way to keep the star from backing off, could be wrong but I thought that was its purpose??
Quote from: wendull on April 13, 2016, 04:39:02 PM
Im not sure why the rachet on the star, so I figured it was a good way to keep the star from backing off, could be wrong but I thought that was its purpose??
Yes, at light settings.
Quote from: Fish-aholic on February 09, 2016, 01:26:31 PM
It's in regard to setting a baited trap, Sal.
Here in the UK we use 13'+ beachcasting rods - at times I use more than one rod - and these are anchored into a 6' aluminium tripod rod rest, not held. When targeting larger species, I engage the ratchet button on the LH side plate, fully unbutton the star wheel so the drag is at its least effect and readjust it accordingly to gain the correct amount of drag needed to a taught line. With a ratcheted star, I only need to count the amount of clicks it takes to achieve a correctly set bait trap so minor adjustments are easier to hear.
If it's not set correctly (too tight), the quarry could pull the tripod over and rods and reels could fall into the drink or on to rocks/sandy beaches from the venues I frequent. It's not just the quarry I have to worry about, sea debris is another concern, especially during huge spring tides. My 'baited trap' eliminates such scenarios.
I fish very strong tidal runs here (2nd highest tidal range in the world), so engaging the ratchet and putting the reel out of gear (freespool) will have the tidal-run pull unwanted excessive line. This is why I have to accommodate and set it with the use of the star wheel and a ratcheted star makes the setting process a whole lot faster (speed = more fish).
Hearing the reel pay out line and listening to the audio of a ticking/screaming ratchet is music to my ears. The sound of expensive equipment crashing to the ground causing untold damage, is not. It could easily be a session ender. >:(
I also can't afford to keep my eyes locked on to my rod tips, I have other things to do, like spare traces needing setting up and baiting. This is called double patting. I either retrieve a fish or washed out bait, unclip trace from my rod and quickly clip on a freshly baited one and sling it out into the drink in minimal time. This increases the time a baited trace lays on the sea bed thus increasing the chances of catching more fish. At some venues, I will only have a maximum of a couple of hours fishing before I can get cut off by the tide, in such situations time really is of the essence and has to be made the most of.
Thought I'd give you the bigger picture, than a simple paragraph. ;D
I love surf fishing but mostly fish from a boat because the fish we caugh from the beach a lot similar than yours, but once you go into a boat few miles from the shore it gets better, I had a friend that used to live in UK and he also love it surf fishing, he told me and showed me how it was to fish there, with the big long surf rods, tripod, small bait and normally small fishes too.
I also have a saltist 20h (grey model) abu garcia 6500c3 and a balzer rod 5mt and 4mt long both 1.5oz lure as well as a rainshadow 1385 (12.5ft 6oz) for surf fishing.
what rod do you normally use with your abu on the video?