Received my Pro Challenger gear in the mail tonight, it's beautiful lol..but when I tried to test the drag insert, it doesn't fit. Penn 9/0, it fits the stock gear perfectly. Anyone else running this combination?
Ive heard of this numerous times on the 6/0 and 9/0. The Black Pearl gears have a slightly smaller bore than the penn gears (only a couple of thousandths), but its enough that my inserts will usually require a little filing, or just being pressed in to fit.
My recommendation is to take a sharp file to the outside of the insert, and file it until it is a light press fit in the gear. It really doesnt take much. Just check it often to see where its hitting, and file a little off.
Thanks. I was thinking that, just wanted to be sure before trying it lol. It fits so well in the stock gear I just about didn't get it back out haha, I'll have to try to file it in the morning.
It is totally up to you, but I prefer this fit to be tight, so the insert can't move in the gear.
I file it just enough to get started in the gear and then press it in.
On my 6/0 it took more than a little. A new Nicholson file wasn't working. I finally resorted to a Dremmel and made short work of it. It's still a very tight, tap in fit.
Quote from: Three se7ens on February 26, 2016, 04:43:01 AM
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to the outside of the insert, and file it until it is a light press fit in the gear. It really doesnt take much. Just check it often to see where its hitting, and file a little off.
X2
I have been using a file, and then a brass brush well on a Benchtop grinder to smooth to a light press fit. Proper spacing /spring (s) on the gear sleeve will ensure light pressure on the stack when backing the drag off. I am not concerned about the insert backing out of the gear, and like to put a thin coat of grease on it when installing to help with possible electrolysis issues from dissimilar metals and salt water intrusion. I think the aluminum will actually expand quicker then the gear as it gets warm and hold tight.if you are concerned, you could simply use a punch to peen the gear edge (with the insert in place), and it will definitely stay put.
Has anyone actually had problems with the inserts backing working there way out of the gear under real world use?
I think you will be happy with the Delron over and under the gear stack. You may even want to try a small one under the star (depending on the model) to smooth adjusting it under heavier loads.. just make sure spring tension is adequate to prevent it from unintentionally backing off.
I think we would like to see more pictures of your builds if you'very got them?
John
John, I've read this a couple times here and I'm a little confused. When you say Delron under and on top of the drag stack,what exactly does this mean. I'm aware of a Delron washer under the main gear. Are you guys placing one inside the main gear at the bottom instead of a Cf washer also? And the one on top of the stack. Exactly where???
Thnx,
Bob
Quote from: BMITCH on February 26, 2016, 10:58:52 AM
John, I've read this a couple times here and I'm a little confused. When you say Delron under and on top of the drag stack,what exactly does this mean. I'm aware of a Delron washer under the main gear. Are you guys placing one inside the main gear at the bottom instead of a Cf washer also? And the one on top of the stack. Exactly where???
Thnx,
Bob
We are not sure about the Delrin on top yet, especially on larger reels. Some mention that the top of the stack generates lots of heat, but that doesn't necessarily mean that a Delrin washer on top is a bad choice. One of the members here is extremely knowledgeable, definitely something to keep an eye on.
On the other hand, I actually believe that the top Delrin washer is helping, smooth washers don't generate the same amount of heat as a friction washer. The Delrin is also an insulator, but I'm not sure how much heat is able to hold back.
The washer for under the gear is doing real good, the reel will let us know if the top washer is working as well.
Here is where my discussion on top and bottom washer was started:
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=11443.msg110694#msg110694
Sal
It'll be pic heavy in a day or so :D work is insane, but at least it's Friday! I've only got one Deleon washer, are any of these readily available, or is it a make your own kinda thing now? I can't wait to show this reel off, by far my nicest build yet.
Thnx Sal. I've already placed one under the main on most of my reels. This is all good info.
Bob
I also like a snug fit on those, but if it is a little loose it will do just fine.
If you're using a press to set the insert in as I do, be careful.
A little pressure to get it in is fine, but if it is very tight you will distort the main gear by the groves for the eared washers.
Sal
I made a small Delrin washer for the top of the stack too Bob.
(http://i1300.photobucket.com/albums/ag93/darondyer/IMG_3136_zpsf1t76tmn.jpg)
(http://i1300.photobucket.com/albums/ag93/darondyer/d5469057-e345-4e39-84ca-b8a36b010d00_zps6hhi1ato.jpg)
If you go to the link that Sal put up here. It appears to me that Sal substituted the last washer in the stack for one of the Custom cut hex CF's. While I think this would work with any of the hex/versa type drags we a currently upgrading to increase drag numbers,but would this work with a standard drag stack.? Maybe I'm just seeing it wrong, dunno. It also looks to me like Sal has it sandwiched between two of the keyed washers.
Some of my confusion was the way this was stated. "Delrin on the top and bottom of the drag stack". When in reality it's a delrin under the main gear and a delrin on top of the drag stack...?? Right??
We are talking about two different animals here Bob.
The author of this thread is building a 9/0 with an insert.
That is what my pictures are referring to.
The Hex drags are soon to be a thing of the past, but I still have two sets of those gears.
I never put a delrin on top of those.
With the inserts, I'm using one under the main gear and one on the very top of the stack.
The only thing pressing on the top is the top hat or the spacer.
Sal will need to elaborate on his Hex setup.
I thought you were building a reel with an insert.
Yeah I'm trying to decipher weather to put a delrin on top of the stack as per your photo or to omit one of the CFs under the top hat. I guess we wouldn't get the drag numbers we would want then. Also...does the spacer sleeve come into direct contact with the delrin on top. And if so....does the delrin deform under heavy drag due to limited surface contact with the spacer sleeve. Meaning the sleeve does not distribute the force from the star across the whole washer. I know as clear as mud...lol
And yes, to be clear, I'm talking about Adams inserts.
I also had the same problem with the insert with Alans gear on my 9.0. I sanded it and then pressed it in. Now its tight and everything else goes together without force.
Oops...didn't mean to hijack this thread. Sooooo if the moderators see a need to move it, have at it
Quote from: Shark Hunter on February 26, 2016, 02:42:08 PM
We are talking about two different animals here Bob.
The author of this thread is building a 9/0 with an insert.
That is what my pictures are referring to.
The Hex drags are soon to be a thing of the past, but I still have two sets of those gears.
I never put a delrin on top of those.
With the inserts, I'm using one under the main gear and one on the very top of the stack.
The only thing pressing on the top is the top hat or the spacer.
Sal will need to elaborate on his Hex setup.
I thought you were building a reel with an insert.
For a minute I thought you were writing a book ::), nothing new here it has all been done before ;)
Bob, the layout is the same for Stock gears , Hex gears, Octagon inserts, Hex inserts, Adam inserts the new HX eared gears that are due in soon...nothing complicated here, same principal to all.
If you have the top-hat, the delrin washer could sit right under it, if you have the spacer it is a good idea to have a keyed washer on top of the delrin. Depending on the thickness of the carbon fiber washers used, you could end up with one metal washer on top or two, this doesn't change anything, its just a spacer.
Sal
I have a few delrin washers that fit the top hat on the models with easy access drags. Pm me if anyone wants them.
So that means the configuration that Daron has a photo of there is incorrect?? Or maybe I'm confusing the top hat for the last washer that is supplied with the kit??? If so than it would make perfect sence. Won't be the first or last time I was confused...lol😆
Quote from: BMITCH on February 26, 2016, 03:42:09 PM
So that means the configuration that Daron has a photo of there is incorrect?? Or maybe I'm confusing the top hat for the last washer that is supplied with the kit??? If so than it would make perfect sence. Won't be the first or last time I was confused...lol😆
Yeah, I believe you are making it confusing for yourself. Myself and Daron have both said that the Top-Hot sits on top of the delrin, the rest is going to have to be up to you bud.
One under the drag star makes tightening the star much easier. I try to fit one on all reels.
Ease up on the Coffee Bob. :D
Yes, The top hat sits on the Delrin, Like Sal said.
It's been a long month today...😝😝😆
A while back, I had a Pro Challenger 6/0 gear that was too tight for the Motive Fab drag insert. I was also doing a 6/0 with an old fashion steel gear. The insert fit that one nicely, so I left it there and installed one of Brian's 7 pacs in the Pro Challenger gear. Worked out great.
Charlie
Well after filing it for awhile, and a little persuasion from a hammer...it's in! And it's definitely not ever coming back out haha
Not trying to blow my trumpet, but I wonder if the composite Delrin/Stainless top hat I made here would help with this top of the stack confusion...
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=10286.60
They are not too hard to produce. The 6/0 and 9/0 share the same gears don't they?
So far I have had a few bluefin tuna over this reel, and so far it's held up well.
Have been given the go-ahead to fish this reel to swords this season, that will be a good test for this top-hat.
I ended up with one of those in a round about way.
I need to give it a try.
I have came to the conclusion that the top hat and felt washer is just a seal to keep grit and contaminants away from the gear. basically a grease seal.
Mike
Quote from: mikeysm on February 27, 2016, 04:32:26 PM
I have came to the conclusion that the top hat and felt washer is just a seal to keep grit and contaminants away from the gear. basically a grease seal.
Mike
Yeah, that's what I thought, but the reel gave a different results:
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=13341.msg134338#msg134338
Basically Penn developed it as a grease seal. And you found that using a Delrin washer it now serves two purposes. So does Adam have these washers for sale.
Those seals are worthless, I usually toss them, especially the ones on the ss spinners. they make the handle stiffer to turn and protect you from nothing at all.
Sal, what's amazing to me is that you got better drag numbers using the minimal contact original washer over the full contact modified hat. I'm referring to the link you posted above. Seems to be counter intuitive to me for some reason. Thanks for posting that.
Bob
Maybe a good question to ask on the penn tour ;)
Yes it would be good to get Penns thought on this. What were they thinking when they decided to use the top hat design.
Mike
Quote from: BMITCH on February 27, 2016, 05:37:52 PM
Sal, what's amazing to me is that you got better drag numbers using the minimal contact original washer over the full contact modified hat. I'm referring to the link you posted above. Seems to be counter intuitive to me for some reason. Thanks for posting that.
Bob
One of the reason I posted it. ;)
No need to ask Penn about those, we keep moving along here and don't stay with one thing... we keep improving.
Pro-Challenger latest gears are at the top, we are trying to figure out the best layout with the drags for those. Looks like they will be getting something similar as Adam's drag stack, only a little wider.
I don't blame you for getting confused, we have many different configurations, also, having to different openings on a plate for the same reel doesn't help.
Be patience and enjoy the ride, I believe it will all settle down once we get to were we want to be. The problem, that day might never come ;D.