Hello,
A friend asked me to look at his Penn 230 GTO Levelwind.
https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Penn230GTO.aspx
(https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Penn230GTO.aspx)
When you crank the handle very slowly the spool will turn.
Crank fast or even thumb the spool and the spool stops turning and kind of a crunching sound.
Any hints what to look at when I open it up?
Thanks,
"Edited as per Moderators to correct Scott's Bait & Tackle over to their new store name Mystic Reel Parts / www.mysticparts.com"
Spes: Alan is the expert, but I am going to take a guess. I think the teeth on the top of the pinion gear chipped off. Dominick
either that, or the pinion gear is not fully engaging the spool........ :-\
how much play does the spool have when you move it side to side?
There's hardly any side to side movement in the spool.
I didn't mention also, 0 drag. It clunk clunk clunks when I pull on the line.
I'm probably going to wait till Sunday to open it up.
If it is the pinion gear, $11.45 from Scotts
Good idea to open it up, it could be something else.
Ok, I couldn't resist.
I opened it up. I followed the tutorial on the penn 209. So I at least didn't dump the bridge screws ;D I noticed the dog and dog spring are a little different. Can't quite get that back together right.
Nothing jumps out at me as being chewed.
Put the bridge back together with or without the dog and spring. Then flip the freespool lever back and forth while you watch the pinion gear go up and down. You should see the pinion gear move up and down about 1/8th inch. If it's not, that could be the main problem.
Use the 320GTI tutorial http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=9.0
About the 28th slide down you'll see your dog and spring. Put the bridge back together then attach the spring.
Rob
Thanks,I'll check that after work today.
One thing I will have to check, I don't recall a drag washer between the main gear and the gear sleeve,,I could be wrong.
Oh, in that other tutorial it looks like the grease isn't wiped off the drag washers after slopping it on. That observation correct?
Thanks,
Good observation. That's one of Alan's early ones and he now recommends minimal greasing.
Spec - There is usually a phenolic washer between the gear sleeve and the main gear. To insure that the drag system maintains it's smoothness, this washer is usually replaced with a grease carbon fiber drag washer. With regards to the drag grease, for star drag reels, the grease isn't wiped off. When the drag is compressed, it will squeeze out, and does not affect the operation of the drag system or free spool. So the extra step of wiping off the excess grease is not performed. For lever drag reels, excess grease will affect the free spool, and therefore, the excess drag grease is wiped off.
Thanks for the coaching.
I'm going to go tinker with the reel now.
I will check that the pinion gear moves when the freespool lever is engaged.
I'm will take some pictures if I can't figure what the problem is.
BTW, how do you post a picture? If I upload my image to a site, how do I get the nice sized pics you all are posting?
More in a bit,
Thanks,
Well, I was able too get it all back together. It's still skipping.
The pinion gear looks like it moves correctly when the eccentric lever is moved.
Here's a few pictures of the gears.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_d23WJkSsdPI/TV8e4zOQN1I/AAAAAAAAAFQ/P-nXqRu1eLE/s800/Eccentric%20Jack.jpg)(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_d23WJkSsdPI/TV8e6m5dqWI/AAAAAAAAAFY/n2i5-Ns2ySs/s800/PinionGear.jpg)(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_d23WJkSsdPI/TV8e7ezOAoI/AAAAAAAAAFc/aRXR421OWQw/s800/MainGear.jpg)(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_d23WJkSsdPI/TV8e8WKiByI/AAAAAAAAAFg/T7XePGrxlR4/s800/Spool.jpg)
Knowing 0 ZERO, it feels like the pinion gears is moving around?
That just made me think, I didn't look inside the grooved spot on the pinion gear. Could that be what's stripped?
My guess is the the inside of the pinion is worn. Note that it is beveled so that it slips ver th spool easily. Too often these bevels wear and the gear will slip. I think this happens from shifting into and out of gear with the reel is under heavy drag. Fishing lighter line is always better with these reels. They really weren't designed for 80# spectra -- the line I see on them most often up here.
Well I can't see anything that doesn't look right.
Concensus, order up a pinion gear?
Thanks,
Spes: Please photograph both sides of the pinion gear. Also slip the pinion over the spool shaft to see if it is worn and photograph the other side of the spool. Dominick
The spool shaft has a couple of nicks on opposite corners,but when i place the pinion gear on it it doesn't seem to slip.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_d23WJkSsdPI/TWBLi9mxysI/AAAAAAAAAG8/KdSHWL2V6Tw/s800/DSC00069.JPG)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_d23WJkSsdPI/TWBLJs_TV5I/AAAAAAAAAGo/lwtzutb3Q9g/s800/DSC00070.JPG)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_d23WJkSsdPI/TWBK22s2n4I/AAAAAAAAAGU/sQpUTz87W2o/s800/DSC00071.JPG)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_d23WJkSsdPI/TWBKR5OhZTI/AAAAAAAAAGI/kaQI-LwViGk/s800/DSC00072.JPG)
Spes: Thanks for promptly putting the photos up. The pinion gear looks okay. What is suspect is, take a look at the cog on the spool shaft. It looks like a corner is broken off. I would test it by tightening the drag all the way and then crank it. If it works ok at full drag, then try it with the drag backed off. If the grinding returns then I would opine that the cog is pushing the pinion down with the round part of the cog on the spool shaft. I'm just throwing out theories here. Spes needs help. Come on guys. Dominick
yeah it has this noob stumped.
It's sounds like the same symptoms in this post
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=1547.0 (http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=1547.0)
The oppsite corners on the spool shaft do look "chipped", but the pinion gear seems tight when tried manually
How snug should the pinion gear feel when u put it in the yoke?
It seems very loose on the yoke. Putting the guts back together the pinion gear wants to fall out easily.
Stumping the masses am I?
it sounds like the pinion gear is not dropping down onto the spool shaft, either because the spool shaft has a burr on it or because the spool is shifted over to far to the left.
Thank You Alan,
If the spool shaft had a nick in it should I try to just clean up the edge with a file?
What would cause the spool shaft to be shifted over to far to the left, if that's the case?
One thing for sure getting alot easier to put it together and take it apart ;D
take off any burrs with a file. check to see that the pinion gear seats properly onto the shoulders of the spool shaft first. looking at the photos, i'm betting it will and that this is not your problem.
Quote from: spes on February 18, 2011, 01:21:49 AM
There's hardly any side to side movement in the spool.
I didn't mention also, 0 drag. It clunk clunk clunks when I pull on the line.
does the handle go backwards when you pull the line out? if it does, then chances are the dog is bad. if not, then it's the connection between the pinion gear and the shoulders of the spool shaft. alan
I put it back together AGAIN ::)
To me the pinion gear seems to seat correctly.
But that is what feels like is popping off.
The dog is working.
One thing I did notice is the less drag the less it does it.
Increase the drag to a usable setting and it's popping every turn of the handle.
Bottom line, if it's the ding in the spool shaft would you say it's not worth replaceing? The spool is like $40,,
$12 for a pinion gear would be worth it if that was it.
(Do you have to replace the main gear if replacing the pinion gear? )
It is at the point where I don't care if the reel makes it as much as wanting to know WHY it's doing it!
there are springs under the yoke, of course. maybe stretch them out by 50% so they put more upward force on the yoke.
I did stretch them out a little,, not 50% tho
then we are back to the placement of the spool. it must be displaced too far to the left.
Ok,
But you lost me now on what to do about that..
I only tighten the tension control knob a little just so it's not shaking around.
The goal is zero drag and zero side play when you're done. Setting the side-to-side on a reel is easiest for me when the spool is empty. I just keep tightening the left bearing cap until I can't feel any more movement while checking end play often. I move the spool back and forth with my index finger on each side of the spool. Then I hold the reel up to my ear to listen for the contact when the spool is moved back and forth. I usually back off a bit then re-tighten as necessary to make sure I've got it right.
This reel doesn't have a left bearing cap.
All tightening comes from the spool tension control on the right.
Which basically is pushing the reel to the left.
maybe shim the left side of the spool shaft to move it over to the right?
lol,,
I don't have to ask how to do that one!
Will give that a try
opened it up and dropped a bearing shield on top of the left bearing.
put it back together, it helped a little,, but still slips when an acceptable amount of drag is applied.
opened again, there isn't enough room bewteewn the bearing and the ?idle gear?
to fit a swcond bearing shield.
Any way of putting a push spring there?
That would have to sit ON the bearing not in it right?
Check to see if there is a copper shim under the bearing. If this one is missing or is too thin there is your problem. Can you post a picture of the left side plate ?
It looks the same as in Alan's 320 tutorial
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=9.msg9#msg9 (http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=9.msg9#msg9)
I'll have to fab something to get that bearing out..
The left end of the spool shaft should rest on the shim not on the bearing. The shim can be accesses by taking out the bearing. Also check to make sure that the gears are meshing properly by taking the bridge assembly out with the main gear and drag washers sleeve and star knob place in it the spool assembly and pinion gear with the yoke. In this way you can see if the gears are slipping.
Any news on the reel?
no news is bad news i guess.
I did check and the shim is thee on the left side
Frustrated I took the reel to my local tackle shop and asked him if he could see something I was missing.
He also could not come up with a definitive answer.
He said he doubted the small nicks in the spool shaft were doing it because the pinion gear engages quite soundly when manually engaged with the reel apart. He suggested replacing the pinion gear, but said that was purely a shot in the dark.
I've about given up on this reel.
Wow, just spooled up a brand new 230GTO last night and about 1/2 way thru it started doing the same exact thing that SPES reported! Amazing that the very first thread that came up when I searched "230 GTO" was this. I took the reel apart this morning without having read any of this and all looks normal. Bought it off e-bay of course, so don't know what PENN can or will do if anything. Was NIB box. Maybe this is a great learning tool!
Wish me luck! ;D
The pinion gear engagement groove is cut too wide and allows the gear to jump off the spool shaft under load. The notches on the spool shaft shoulders provide the slipping surface for the pinion gear.
Penn has stopped making both the 220 and the 230...
The solution to the problem is a new spool shaft with wider shoulders and no notches. The GTO series was replaced by the Defiance series.
I just had this same problem with this model. I put 2 thin brass spacers under the bearing in the left side plate and stretched the clutch springs and so far no problems with clunking while drag is engaged.
My Penn 230 sleeps with the fishies
I serviced several GTO reels lately and can't recommend them at all. Clickers are weak, as are handles. Lots of saltwater intusion. I would pass on the Defiance as well, too much plastic for me. An upgraded 320/330 is more substantial. The only positive I can find is the metal drag washers on the GTO reels are thinner than the GTI reels, so if you need to reduce the stack height on GTI or 113 reels there is an option.
Charlie
The GTO series and its replacement, the Defiance series are excellent for freshwater fishing (not recommended for sturgeon fishing). They work good for light saltwater fishing (jetties, short piers, marinas) and I wouldn't recommend them for boat fishing at all. For that there are better alternatives like the GTI, Fathom, and Senator series.
Hey gang,
For what it's worth, I just serviced 2 of these reels today from the same customer, both with the common & exact same issue Spes had with
his now (not so dearly)departed GTO. This is not the first time I've seen this with the GTO's either.
These reels had been fished very lightly as they were spotless inside and in
like new condition except for some minor pitting on
the one bare spool. Had good freespool too.
The second one had about 40-50yds of 100+lb dacron backing. ( ??? are you kidding me?) This reel had terrible freespool. But again, like new.
Here's what I came across.
There are TWO required Thrust Washers ( key 40C) 1 behind the Lt. bearing, 1 in the Rt. Tension Cap (with rubber washer 40D behind it).
They are not really washers, there is no hole, they are brass spacing discs.
IN BOTH REELS, the left one is
noticeably thinner than the right one, !! Yet they share a common part #, Neither shows any wear. They are shiny new.
SWITCH them!!! put the thicker one in the left side, thinner on the right.
Problem solved !! Both reels ;)
I'm chalking this up to Poor quality control. :
Quote from: usncporet on June 09, 2012, 12:23:38 AM
Wow, just spooled up a brand new 230GTO last night and about 1/2 way thru it started doing the same exact thing that SPES reported! Amazing that the very first thread that came up when I searched "230 GTO" was this. I took the reel apart this morning without having read any of this and all looks normal. Bought it off e-bay of course, so don't know what PENN can or will do if anything. Was NIB box. Maybe this is a great learning tool!
Wish me luck! ;D
.... See !
I found poor assembly on both reels... body screws in the wrong spot, 1 drag misconfigured with the eared washer on top, unseated, and bent. Loose stand screws, and an overtightened level wind nut. ( the reel with poor freespool) All the drag washers were dry & seemingly unused. they all just dropped right out of the gear... lucky me :D
After I had the reels working properly, I noticed one had the slightest grind when spinning the handle in freespool, like the pinion was bumping something... TIGHTen the bridge screws down hard, it goes away.. back the screws off a hair pie, the bump returns. Torque the screws down again, All set. You gotta suck that bridge down really tight to overcome poor tolerances...IMHO.
Like
borchci said, I can't really recommend this reel to anyone, and I think it was
Tile who noted this reel was designed more for inshore fishing and freshwater use.
The good thing is the dude will be fishing his reels again soon, and no new parts needed (imagine that ::)).
BUT !!!
I'm only going to let him spool them with 20lb mono !!!
That's where the GTO's belong.
Cheers,
Erik
100lb Dacron backing is more suited for a 30 or 50 class metal bodied leverdrag reel not a freshwater reel like a GTO. Luckily my 220 came with no assembly problems at all.