I need advice!
Have been dragging spoons with Penn 113H reels and need some help. Last year or two we've had to drop back 300-400' of wire to get spoons down to where the Stripers are. The haul back in takes a lifetime!!!
What can I do to either increase my line retrieve per crank? Or what reels should I consider upgrading to? Many use the shimano tekota 800's with line counter. But some tell me their spools are very susceptible to corrosion. I'm open to suggestions. Seeing how dedicated I am to the mighty Striper, I'm not afraid to spend some $ if I could improve this picture. Thanks in advance for the help !!
(http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f389/rebait1/IMG_1996_zpsa59ndmu3.jpg) (http://s51.photobucket.com/user/rebait1/media/IMG_1996_zpsa59ndmu3.jpg.html)
Here's the set up I mostly go to....
(http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f389/rebait1/portrait_sketch_1402228083963_zpsoqzwtxtu.jpg) (http://s51.photobucket.com/user/rebait1/media/portrait_sketch_1402228083963_zpsoqzwtxtu.jpg.html)
Probably the easiest thing to do would be to buy ProGear SS 4:1 gears. That gives you about 20% more speed. Be careful, once youstart upgrading 113Hs you never stop.
Ron
Somehow high speed reels and wire line just doesn't mix. You'll likely chew up a lot of gears as those reels are not built for that type of constant stress. If you want a little more speed from your 113H, I would just change the gears out to ProChallenger 4:1 gears for the 113H and you would be good to go. I don't know of any other reel that works well with wire line than Penns with a brass spool.
Ron, don't you mean Pro Challenger SS gears?
The 113 is 2:1 and the 113H is currently 3:1 ? Going 4:1 sounds appealing, but yeah I can already tell the wire is straining the Penns.
are you referring to a Penn 113 or Penn 113H?
113H. And they don't retrieve quick enough. And their handles are flimsy to boot.... From my studying previous posted comments here, maybe I could go with the Penn Baja 113 and upgrade them to 4:0 reprisals??
The 113H is fine for your application. I have been using them since they came out. I wont even leave the dock without 2 wire setups and a leadcore. 400 ft of wire may be unnecessary. If I need to get deeper than 35 ft I would consider a MOJO setup along with the wire. Simple and effective. The jigs are available in a myriad of sizes and will give you the extra weight to get deeper. Don't be surprised if you see double headers.
As far as corrosion, I have been coating my aluminum spools with a good marine grease. Last season I used Corrosion X and had NO problems at all.
I like to stick with the aluminum spools for the reduced weight.
The old theory of 10 ft of depth for every 100 ft of wire may be close up to 300 ft. After that the extra 100 ft for a total of 400 may only give you and additional 5 ft at best. You start to get to the point of diminishing returns and the line starts to belly up from the drag.
If your dragging bunker spoons you will have to use a Mojo style jig that has more of a bullet shaped head. You'll also have to experiment on the placement of the jig. Obviously the closer the jig is to the spoon is the easier to handle but too close may degrade the action of the spoon.
Lastly, I use to use outrodders such as you have on your boat. The drawback is when your catching 40/50 lb fish it becomes very difficult to remove the rod from the outrodder. I solved this problem buy moving my holders to the inside of the boat attached to the back of the outer reaches of the console seat. If you need a picture I probably have one. If your not using a safety line I would highly recommend it. I use braided parachute cord along with a SS snap.
Hope this helps and good luck!
Regards, .. Lou
PS My 113h's have upgraded handle and SS gear sleeves. Gear ratio is stock. Rods are built on old modified 10' harnell blanks with a fairly limber midsection. Its really the pumping action of the rod that keeps the spoon working as it should.
Quote from: rebait1 on March 19, 2016, 11:14:33 PM
And their handles are flimsy to boot....
I think you need one of these on the left or center.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/11/1_19_01_15_7_31_58_11706154.jpeg)
ProGear Pro Challenger... Tomato Tomato. Oh wait, the second two are spelled the same, the first two mean I'm an idiot.
Ron
I fished leadcore for ten years, and am one of the few who love the stuff. All my stretch lures, umbrellas, and MOJO s are off of Penn 330gtis. But wire has its place, for spoons exclusively. For us, off of ibsp we need to get deep and I have been copying those with great success. My friend had 15 fish over 40 last year, and he dumps all 400 and then 100 of backing!
I will have to change the handles
And hoping to improve on line retrieval. Was even wondering if I should just move up to 6/0s if increasing gear ratios..
doesn't help?
WWhere can I get those handles?? And how do I make sure I'm ordering correct ones for my reels?
There is always the option of a downrigger but I'm not sure how it would affect the action of the bunker spoons. Would work well with other methods for sure.
There is a Daiwa Sealine 400 that is designed for wire. Not sure of the gear ratio on those.
Some guys use the 114H but those are really heavy with the chrome over brass spools. Don't think that would really assist in speed.
I've been using the 113H for a bit now and I'm happy with them. Works well for my purpose.
In regards to the Tekotas, I think if you use stainless you would cause damage to the spools eventually. If you use monel, which is a nickle alloy, you might be okay. It might cause some wear on the finish of the spool but it shouldn't react like the stainless. Not sure how soft the gears are on the Tekotas but I agree wire is tough on reels/gears. Not sure how the wire would like the levelwind.....
I've heard from some that over 300' of wire results in the plaining up of the wire. Meaning it starts to actually come back up.....
I know they make monel in different strengths, 30lb, 40lb, 50lb, etc. I haven't experimented with this myself but heavier line might get you down deeper. As well as slowing down the boat.
How deep are you trying to get the spoons?
Quote from: noyb72 on March 20, 2016, 12:22:27 AM
ProGear Pro Challenger... Tomato Tomato. Oh wait, the second two are spelled the same, the first two mean I'm an idiot.
Ron
You're not, we all make misteaks, Opps mistakes. :D :D
Quote from: FatTuna on March 20, 2016, 01:57:31 AM
There is always the option of a downrigger but I'm not sure how it would affect the action of the bunker spoons. Would work well with other methods for sure.
I second this idea since you said you don't mind spending some money. Chuck the wire line. I don't know why anyone uses wire line anyway. Use braid with a top shot and run the lure down to any depth you need to go. My opinion. Dominick
Quote from: Dominick on March 20, 2016, 02:11:15 AM
Quote from: FatTuna on March 20, 2016, 01:57:31 AM
There is always the option of a downrigger but I'm not sure how it would affect the action of the bunker spoons. Would work well with other methods for sure.
I second this idea since you said you don't mind spending some money. Chuck the wire line. I don't know why anyone uses wire line anyway. Use braid with a top shot and run the lure down to any depth you need to go. My opinion. Dominick
I use wireline for a few reasons. One is we use a technique here where we drag parachute or bucktail jigs through the sand. You lay down the wire right on the bottom. You then pull on the backing and snap it so the bucktail shoots into the sand. It mimics a lobster trying to escape. Down on the Cape, there are a ton of bass in the summer that feed on lobsters. Some argue it's their favorite meal. The technique works well but it's a lot of physical work.
Two is cost. A wire setup is cheap, downriggers are not. Although, I'm sure if you shopped around you could do the downriggers cheap enough.
Three, some argue that a bunker spoon should be fished on a long, soft, fiberglass rod. It gives the spoon a pulsating action which is what triggers the bass to hit it. I honestly don't know if the downrigger would change the action.
Four, for bass, I fish by myself a lot. The wire setups keep it simple.
I do want to get a downrigger one day though.
Everything I'm reading still says 4:1 gears to me. Way cheaper than a new reel.
As far as wire planing, the phenomenon is called "kiting", as in flying a kite. It is something we have to consider with towed SONAR arrays. The solutions we use will not work for you because you need the boat to do what it is doing for proper presentation. Increasing mass in a shorter length is the only option I see, I have no idea if a stronger wire will be heavy enough to eliminate kiting but I know a shorter length kites less all things being equal.
Hope that helps.
Ron
Quote from: noyb72 on March 20, 2016, 04:49:08 AM
Everything I'm reading still says 4:1 gears to me. Way cheaper than a new reel.
As far as wire planing, the phenomenon is called "kiting", as in flying a kite. It is something we have to consider with towed SONAR arrays. The solutions we use will not work for you because you need the boat to do what it is doing for proper presentation. Increasing mass in a shorter length is the only option I see, I have no idea if a stronger wire will be heavy enough to eliminate kiting but I know a shorter length kites less all things being equal.
Hope that helps.
Ron
I agree, limit the amount of line and increase the mass. I don't know if the heavier wire would be significant enough to make a difference. I plan to experiment with it one day. I know that the diameter of the wire also increases as you increase the strength.
There is also the option of adding a drail weight towards the terminal end of the wire. That would get it down. It's a pain to have that on the end of your line but it's also a pain to have to crank in all that wire.....
Hey rebait1. This is just my opinion but been striper fishing Raritan Bay NJ for 30+ yrs. Only reel we ever use is the Penn 349H Mariners. Has 3.25:1 gear ratio, 350 yrd. capacity and the power handle in the second hole for extra cranking. I only use 150 ft. of Monel 30 lb. wire over 30 lb. mono backing. It gets big Bunker spoons down 25 ft. To get deeper I just add a drail weight between the wire and the 25 ft leader. 2, 4 or 6 ounce drails gets you down to any depth you need. Also easier to spool line in being a narrow spool and since I have short thumbs it's easier for me. Here's a couple of pics. Richy
Downriggers and spoons don't work for the most part. You've got to be able to see the rod surge, to know you have right speed.
I fish Maja outrodders so you can get an assist removing rod under heavy pressure......
Here's a short video of my 8 and 9' seeker bunker rods with 113H'S in action...
(http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f389/rebait1/th_20151114_141429_zpswjmv2wds.mp4) (http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f389/rebait1/20151114_141429_zpswjmv2wds.mp4)
Thanks Cpt RMF I don't know those reels and will check out their specs. Look really good.
Tony Maja makes some good stuff. Know him personally a long time before he was famous. He got the idea from homemade ones at our boat yard. Also, if you like the specs on those reels, I have 2 for sale. I wound up with 7 of them and don't need all of them. Thanks. Richy