Post questions about this reel in this thread
The original 10/0 came with the 3-piece spool, and then it seems the one-piece cast bronze spool. Was there ever an aluminum spool model?
Not to my knowledge Albert.
Pretty sure it was discontinued before they started making the aluminum spools?
Quote from: mizmo67 on June 24, 2016, 01:49:39 PM
Pretty sure it was discontinued before they started making the aluminum spools?
I believe you a correct Mo. I don't see why they can make the 116 and not the 116A spool when it could be shared by both reels.
I asked Penn 3 years ago if they would consider making the standard 3 1/4" aluminum spool and a 2 1/4" in width for that same reel, they told me there wouldn't be much interest.
Alan Chui has one of my 10/0 for a year now, he said he will try and see what he could do, but didn't promise anything.
He's trying to get the plates done and maybe the spool as well...we'll see.
Are the drag ratings the same on 10/0 as 12/0
No difference in the "internals" between 12/0 and 10/0. Posts, seat, spool, and logo on side plate were the differences that I knew of.
Was thinking of casting and cutting an aluminum spool for the 10/0, but thought it Penn made it I would save myself the trouble. Not difficult, but time consuming.
Interesting question! The last year for the 10/0 was 1988. In 1988 the standard 9/0 Senator115L with the Aluminum spool was in the catalog. It was the only standard Senator in 1988 with an aluminum spool. In 1989, the 10/0 was no longer in the catalog, so there was no reason for Penn to make an aluminum spool for a reel that was no longer being offered by the company. But in 1989,,,,, the 9/0 was still the only standard Senator reel with a aluminum spool. The year of 1990 was the dramatic change. The 16/0 was gone, the 10/0 was still gone and the 14/0 and 12/0, along with the 9/0 were introduced with the aluminum spools. 1990 marks the end of the traditional Senators in their old "Jaws" size offerings.
QuoteNo difference in the "internals" between 12/0 and 10/0. Posts, seat, spool, and logo on side plate were the differences that I knew of.
Another interesting observation about the 10/0. The 10/0 is a hybrid model. It was created by matching the width of a 9/0 with the diameter of a 12/0. That is why the odd 116A model number. The 10/0 was an after-thought!
It would still be nice to have a narrow, a standard and wide spool for these beauties, a tall spool with low gear ratio is a good thing in most cases.
I understand that they were no longer in production in the late 80's, but many were made and they're still out there, I have a half dozen or so myself.
The 116 is still in production, that reel is the same reel.
Sal
If you look at the Senators, you will find that the line capacities are the two previous sizes makes the next size. For example, 4/0 + 6/0 = 9/0. Also, 10/0 width is the same as the 9/0, 14/0 is same as 12/0.
Quote from: Penn Chronology on June 24, 2016, 09:35:09 PM
Another interesting observation about the 10/0. The 10/0 is a hybrid model. It was created by matching the width of a 9/0 with the diameter of a 12/0. That is why the odd 116A model number. The 10/0 was an after-thought!
Since my 10/0 spool is warped, and I can't find a replacement for a reasonable cost, I thought I'd try making one out of aluminum. Did a casting last week, and made a very bad decision by dunking the hot cast in cold water. Aluminum shrank, water infiltrated, and steam explosion forced molten aluminum out from the interior. I also managed to set a few things on fire in the process (wife was not happy even though it was all my stuff and outside.....and I don't blame her).
Tried the casting again today, no fires (wife was playing "fireman"), and am in the process of letting it cool to ambient overnight. We'll see if I can remove it from the steel mold I used. If it doesn't fall out, I'll remelt in that mold and cast in sand.
Not as if I have nothing else to do, so this is just an experiment and definitely a "one-of" type of thing.
I did cut an aluminum spool for a Templar 1419 3/4 many years ago, so I know it can be done. Takes a lot of time and, since the 10/0 is much larger, with take much more time.
It's entirely possible that I might just crap out and decide to get a cheap aluminum spool 12/0. That's kinda no fun, however.
Props to you on your molten metal experiment. That takes some skills and a bit of guts. Interested to hear how it turns out.
Albert, I know that you're able to post pics, I need to see what you did.
If you don't show us, it didn't happen ;D.
Seriously, I give you lots of credit for attempting something as such.
Albert, I'm sure we would like to hear/see the process, alloy, mould, etc....seems like enough aluminum cans and a lathe many things could be made......glad to hear no one was injured.....Bill
Maybe more guts than brains, but I resemble that remark.
Quote from: Tightlines666 on July 11, 2016, 08:15:19 AM
Props to you on your molten metal experiment. That takes some skills and a bit of guts. Interested to hear how it turns out.
Yes, if you don't see it, that means it didn't happen.
Credit is good, but I'd rather have cash. ;D
Quote from: Alto Mare on July 11, 2016, 11:06:48 AM
Albert, I know that you're able to post pics, I need to see what you did.
If you don't show us, it didn't happen ;D.
Seriously, I give you lots of credit for attempting something as such.
The advice was that aluminium cans are produced with fairly low quality material, and that stronger alloys come from such things as engine blocks and transmission cases. Consequently, a transmission case was used. Kinda hard stuff compared to cans.
Quote from: TARFU on July 11, 2016, 04:48:17 PM
Albert, I'm sure we would like to hear/see the process, alloy, mould, etc....seems like enough aluminum cans and a lathe many things could be made......glad to hear no one was injured.....Bill
Quote from: Makule on July 11, 2016, 05:47:57 PMMaybe more guts than brains, but I resemble that remark.
Reminds me of my Portuguese relatives. That is a common saying in my family except it was always stated, "All guts, no brains."
Story 1:
My uncle's friend went fishing in a skiff off Saipan. He didn't return, and a search party was sent out the next day. My uncle and his friend were set on finding him and they took off in another skiff. After a 2 hour ride, they found him drifting at sea. They took his extra fuel on their skiff and towed him back to Saipan. 1) their buddy went fishing by himself in a skiff. 2) my uncle went out searching for him in another skiff in a huge ocean from a tiny island... and we are all still amazed that they found him.
Story 2:
My cousin, born and raised in Northern California. Have never tried skiing ever until he was 22-24. He went skiing with my sister and they immediately lost track of him. Little did they know that he went all the way to the top to the double black diamond run. They saw him fly by them at a high rate of speed a few times until they were all at the bottom of the hill at the same time. Keep in mind, that was his first time skiing. To me, that's all guts!!! This all guts mentality lead him to training to be an Olympian competing in luge, and now an Olympic coach for the woman's bobsled team.
I guess the moral of these stories is sometimes our brains will limit us from the limitless...it's sometimes better to be all guts, no brains. ;)
Quote from: Bryan Young on July 11, 2016, 06:33:10 PM
sometimes our brains will limit us from the limitless...it's sometimes better to be all guts, no brains. ;)
How many times has someone told you, or you thought, "I can't do that"? And you don't try. Quite often. Sometimes they, or you, are right. Most of the time we miss out on something really great. The trick is to know when to listen and when not.... and before you ask, I haven't figured it out yet.
Sid
Yeah, "coulda, woulda, shoulda" are the three most regrettable words in life.
Try and fail, and you know it doesn't work. Don't try and you'll never know. Of course, you might get your arse kicked while trying, but what's life without some of that?
Quote from: sdlehr on July 11, 2016, 08:51:06 PM
Quote from: Bryan Young on July 11, 2016, 06:33:10 PM
sometimes our brains will limit us from the limitless...it's sometimes better to be all guts, no brains. ;)
How many times has someone told you, or you thought, "I can't do that"? And you don't try. Quite often. Sometimes they, or you, are right. Most of the time we miss out on something really great. The trick is to know when to listen and when not.... and before you ask, I haven't figured it out yet.
Sid
The casting cooled and I got it out. Didn't use de-gassing agent so it looks like lots of air holes. Here's the raw pour and the first few cuts. If there are holes as I cut more off, I'll do it again (differently).
(http://i1085.photobucket.com/albums/j428/royhilo/Raw-pour_zpsskhzkgsp.jpg)
(http://i1085.photobucket.com/albums/j428/royhilo/First%20few%20cuts_zpsk9ywhomg.jpg)
Great experiment, can't wait to see how it turns out.
Mike
I have a 12/0 that has a chromed spool that is shaped like the aluminum spool. How rare is that?
They are harder to find. I have a pair. ;)
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm11/ddyer2/IMG_3225_zpswctlvfwt.jpg) (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/ddyer2/media/IMG_3225_zpswctlvfwt.jpg.html)
Cutting was proceeding as expected until there were a few "bumps". Turned out those "bumps" appear to be steel occlusions in the aluminium. Suspect pieces of steel from the transmission case. If they are shallow, I can finish, but if they are too deep, that's the end of it. Back to recasting. If so, was still a good learning experience and I'll do a few things differently on the next attempt.
(http://i1085.photobucket.com/albums/j428/royhilo/Oc1_zpstv6pgivy.jpg)
(http://i1085.photobucket.com/albums/j428/royhilo/Oc2_zpsq8bj5m2u.jpg)
Albert, I'm for exploring and you are giving it a good effort, but that just seems like a lot of work. How about cutting a 29-116L in half and make it a narrow? You will still need to make the new spool shaft.
At $75 it doesn't hurt too bad if it fails.
Just a thought, but I already know your answer ;D.
That's a great idea. Never thought of that. Thank you.
So, my answer is: Do you have a 12/0 spool, preferably aluminum?
Quote from: Alto Mare on July 13, 2016, 01:43:53 AM
Albert, I'm for exploring and you are giving it a good effort, but that just seems like a lot of work. How about cutting a 29-116L in half and make it a narrow? You will still need to make the new spool shaft.
At $75 it doesn't hurt too bad if it fails.
Just a thought, but I already know your answer ;D.
Not the answer I was expecting :). No I do not have one, I have wasted a couple by experimenting though. Be cautious, it gets expensive quickly.
I've asked Penn 3 years ago to make us the aluminum spool for the 116A, they had no interest.
I also asked Alan Chui two years ago and he said he would see what he could do, but didn't promise anything.
Alan has my plates as well, we were discussing a new spool frame and plates.
if I remember correctly, the frame was going to be narrower than the 116A.
Alan has a lot on his plate at the moment, so I'm not sure this will happen any time soon.
You have convinced me to thrash my project in lieu of redoing a 12/0 spool. If you still have the "wasted" spools, maybe I can salvage them. Otherwise, I'll see about getting a 12/0 spool on fleabay.
Quote from: Alto Mare on July 13, 2016, 02:31:50 AM
Not the answer I was expecting :). No I do not have one, I have wasted a couple by experimenting though. Be cautious, it gets expensive quickly.
I've asked Penn 3 years ago to make us the aluminum spool for the 116A, they had no interest.
I also asked Alan Chui two years ago and he said he would see what he could do, but didn't promise anything.
Alan has my plates as well, we were discussing a new spool frame and plates.
if I remember correctly, the frame was going to be narrower than the 116A.
Alan has a lot on his plate at the moment, so I'm not sure this will happen any time soon.
Albert, my largest was a 6/0, I also had a 4/0 and some jigmasters destroyed.
I do not have those parts anymore. The 6/0 I can't find, it was a while ago, the 4/0 went to Tom and the jigmasters I still have, but in pieces.
I did not mean to stop you, I just didn't want you to spend too much.
You need to proceed with that spool though, since you started it, but it's up to you.
Was able to find a 10/0 spool on fleabay for 75. Problem solved, if the spool is good.
Sal, your suggestion was a good one and I'm not one to deny good suggestions. Better idea than mine.
Where can I buy an aluminum spool for a 12/0?
Quote from: Alto Mare on July 13, 2016, 01:43:53 AM
Albert, I'm for exploring and you are giving it a good effort, but that just seems like a lot of work. How about cutting a 29-116L in half and make it a narrow? You will still need to make the new spool shaft.
At $75 it doesn't hurt too bad if it fails.
Just a thought, but I already know your answer ;D.
Quote from: Makule on July 13, 2016, 11:39:38 PM
Where can I buy an aluminum spool for a 12/0?
Quote from: Alto Mare on July 13, 2016, 01:43:53 AM
Albert, I'm for exploring and you are giving it a good effort, but that just seems like a lot of work. How about cutting a 29-116L in half and make it a narrow? You will still need to make the new spool shaft.
At $75 it doesn't hurt too bad if it fails.
Just a thought, but I already know your answer ;D.
https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Parts/29L-116.aspx (https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Parts/29L-116.aspx)
"Edited as per Moderators to correct Scott's Bait & Tackle over to their new store name Mystic Reel Parts / www.mysticparts.com"
Albert,
You got lucky on that 10/0 spool.
You can buy a 12/0 spool here.
https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Parts/29L-116.aspx (https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Parts/29L-116.aspx)
However, before you go any further, you said your 10/0 had a three piece spool.
The bushing reel spools have a longer shaft on the handle side.
These spools are not compatible with a bushing reel.
It has to have bearings to work, or replace the side plates with bearing versions which is not cost productive.
It will end up costing more than buying a new reel.
I'm not trying to sink your ship, but a bushing reel will only fit a bushing spool and visa versa.
I think Sal and I were typing at the same time.
You were one of the original guys here that helped me when I first started. I've learned from my mistakes on the way.
If you have a bearing 10/0, ignore everything I just said. ;)
"Edited as per Moderators to correct Scott's Bait & Tackle over to their new store name Mystic Reel Parts / www.mysticparts.com"
I actually did a search on Scott's and couldn't find it. Glad you guys are here.
Quote from: Alto Mare on July 13, 2016, 11:57:31 PM
Quote from: Makule on July 13, 2016, 11:39:38 PM
Where can I buy an aluminum spool for a 12/0?
Quote from: Alto Mare on July 13, 2016, 01:43:53 AM
Albert, I'm for exploring and you are giving it a good effort, but that just seems like a lot of work. How about cutting a 29-116L in half and make it a narrow? You will still need to make the new spool shaft.
At $75 it doesn't hurt too bad if it fails.
Just a thought, but I already know your answer ;D.
https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Parts/29L-116.aspx (https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Parts/29L-116.aspx)
That's the reason Sal said I'd need to cut a new shaft if modifying the 12/0 spool for the 10/0 (the reel I have has the bushings). Making the shaft shorter and/or thinner is easy. Going the other way is more difficult (but do-able). Cutting the 12/0 spool and then making it narrower is a whole lot easier than casting and cutting an entire spool. Glad Sal rescued me from my folly.
On the other hand, maybe the steel inclusions in the aluminum casting were placed there by God telling me not to proceed. Either way, that project is history.
Quote from: Shark Hunter on July 14, 2016, 12:01:56 AM
Albert,
You got lucky on that 10/0 spool.
You can buy a 12/0 spool here.
https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Parts/29L-116.aspx (https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Parts/29L-116.aspx)
However, before you go any further, you said your 10/0 had a three piece spool.
The bushing reel spools have a longer shaft on the handle side.
These spools are not compatible with a bushing reel.
It has to have bearings to work, or replace the side plates with bearing versions which is not cost productive.
It will end up costing more than buying a new reel.
I'm not trying to sink your ship, but a bushing reel will only fit a bushing spool and visa versa.
I think Sal and I were typing at the same time.
You were one of the original guys here that helped me when I first started. I've learned from my mistakes on the way.
If you have a bearing 10/0, ignore everything I just said. ;)
I, for one, was looking forward to watching you perfect the art of casting aluminum spools from scrap.
Quote from: Tightlines666 on July 14, 2016, 03:01:05 AM
I, for one, was looking forward to watching you perfect the art of casting aluminum spools from scrap.
x2. I've never done any lathe work or really any metal fabrication, so I'm fascinated by watching what you guys do...
Sid
You can both thank Sal for changing my course. He steered me in the correct direction.
There is a possibility (slim, admittedly) that I will still cast and cut a spool for the 10/0. I am more inclined to go another route, however (modify a 12/0 spool). Getting the shaft length to suit the older 116A model will still be much easier than redoing the whole thing (spool and shaft).
Shown below is a spool I cut a long time ago for a Templar reel (about the size of a 4/0). Templar never came out with aluminum spools so I thought I'd make one. Finished the spool, but never got around to making the shaft. Changed the bushings to BB on the reel too. Kept it around thinking I'd finish it one day. There's still a good chance I'll do it by the time I check out.
(http://i1085.photobucket.com/albums/j428/royhilo/reel-spool_zpsa44asmyk.jpg)
Quote from: sdlehr on July 14, 2016, 03:21:59 AM
Quote from: Tightlines666 on July 14, 2016, 03:01:05 AM
I, for one, was looking forward to watching you perfect the art of casting aluminum spools from scrap.
x2. I've never done any lathe work or really any metal fabrication, so I'm fascinated by watching what you guys do...
Sid
It is not uncommon to run into 'Frankinreels' here in HI. Many old timers often cast and/or machined parts to widen their reels, or in some cases make entirely new ones out of existing parts.
There is a reel news article by Mr. Brian Funai exploring the topic of, as he calls them, "Tractor Reels". Early Pflueger Atlapacs, and Templars were often widened, (through modification of the stand, posts, and spool) in order to increase line capacity for shore fishing applications. South Africa, and Australia were also known for producing garage built reels to meet the demands of the local fishermen.
Interesting topic.
I was hoping to (and might yet) see a modern garage-built, 'tractor reel'.
Guess through all of the mods available on this site, we are all keeping the tradition alive in one, or another shape or form.
:)
I was one of those who used to widen the Templars (1419 3/4 to 1420 1/2 width) and Senators (6/0 to 9/0 width). Also made the Templar 1420 1/2 to the 1419 3/4 width (narrower). Those narrow 1420 1/2 were great for balance and handling.
Quote from: Tightlines666 on July 15, 2016, 12:56:01 AM
It is not uncommon to run into 'Frankinreels' here in HI. Many old timers often cast and/or machined parts to widen their reels, or in some cases make entirely new ones out of existing parts.
There is a reel news article by Mr. Brian Funai exploring the topic of, as he calls them, "Tractor Reels". Early Pflueger Atlapacs, and Templars were often widened, (through modification of the stand, posts, and spool) in order to increase line capacity for shore fishing applications. South Africa, and Australia were also known for producing garage built reels to meet the demands of the local fishermen.
Interesting topic.
I was hoping to (and might yet) see a modern garage-built, 'tractor reel'.
Guess through all of the mods available on this site, we are all keeping the tradition alive in one, or another shape or form.
:)
The fleabay spool arrived and, since it was the cast type for BB, the shaft (as expected) was too long. A half-hour of machining and it is good to go. Not perfect, and I may decide to do a little more work on it, but good enough for now.
Upon removal, the 3-piece spools had been brazed. Apparently, it pushed apart and the previous owner tried to get it repaired by brazing. As most of you know, brazing requires lots of heat, especially when the flanges act as heat sinks. Consequently, the heat distorted the spool and that is the reason it was warped.