Reel Repair by Alan Tani

Conventional and Bait Casting Reel Rebuild Tutorials and Questions => Penn Senator Tutorials and Questions => Topic started by: steelhead_killer on April 17, 2016, 02:47:59 AM

Title: Penn 112 Black
Post by: steelhead_killer on April 17, 2016, 02:47:59 AM
(http://i1372.photobucket.com/albums/ag355/photoHumboldt/Penn%20112%20Black%20Side%20Plates%20Rootbeer%20Handle_zpsmnmhsuwg.jpg) (http://s1372.photobucket.com/user/photoHumboldt/media/Penn%20112%20Black%20Side%20Plates%20Rootbeer%20Handle_zpsmnmhsuwg.jpg.html)

Drag is accessible from outside the reel.  Tore it down and it still had all the original washers.  Including that big sponge fiber washer.  What is the drag conversion for this reel to carbon matrix?  Does it use the same as the 112H?  This is my first 112 so its all new to me.  Thanks!

Title: Re: Penn 112 Black
Post by: FatTuna on April 17, 2016, 03:58:26 AM
I believe that one uses the 6-113 washer. The 112H uses the 309 washer same with the 500.
Title: Re: Penn 112 Black
Post by: Tightlines667 on April 17, 2016, 04:36:37 AM
You will want to get the following

1 ea. 4-60

https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Parts/4-60.aspx (https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Parts/4-60.aspx)

1 ea. 6-113SP

https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Parts/6-113SP.aspx (https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Parts/6-113SP.aspx)

2 ea. 8-60

https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Parts/8-60.aspx (https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Parts/8-60.aspx)

& you may want a new felt washer.  Part # 140


"Edited as per Moderators to correct Scott's Bait & Tackle over to their new store name Mystic Reel Parts / www.mysticparts.com"
Title: Re: Penn 112 Black
Post by: steelhead_killer on April 17, 2016, 04:37:34 AM
Specifically what is the replacement for:

140-112 Felt Washer
136-112 Pressure Plate Washer

The schematic says they are no longer available.
Title: Re: Penn 112 Black
Post by: steelhead_killer on April 17, 2016, 04:39:27 AM
The 140 felt is no longer available according to the specs and it is not listed as a part available to order at scotts

Quote from: Tightlines666 on April 17, 2016, 04:36:37 AM
You will want to get the following

1 ea. 4-60

https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Parts/4-60.aspx (https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Parts/4-60.aspx)

1 ea. 6-113SP

https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Parts/6-113SP.aspx (https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Parts/6-113SP.aspx)

2 ea. 8-60

https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Parts/8-60.aspx (https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Parts/8-60.aspx)

& you may want a new felt washer.  Part # 140

Title: Re: Penn 112 Black
Post by: RowdyW on April 17, 2016, 04:40:34 AM
Any reel that uses 6-113 washers (3) will benefit from using 6-60 washers (5) to upgrade the drag stack. You will also need one more keyed & one more eared washer.
Title: Re: Penn 112 Black
Post by: Tightlines667 on April 17, 2016, 04:54:04 AM
I guess this is the felt washer I was thinking of...

https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Parts/140-115.aspx (https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Parts/140-115.aspx)

Inside diameter should be similar, and you could always trim the outside to fit.  


"Edited as per Moderators to correct Scott's Bait & Tackle over to their new store name Mystic Reel Parts / www.mysticparts.com"
Title: Re: Penn 112 Black
Post by: Maxed Out on April 17, 2016, 05:15:10 AM
Andy, why be so hard on yourself. My advice is go get a run of the mill 112 3/0 that doesn't have exposed drags, then no worries about felt washer.

....and look for one with longer handle as it increases the gear ratio ;) ;) ;)
Title: Re: Penn 112 Black
Post by: steelhead_killer on April 17, 2016, 05:26:32 AM
Purdy
Title: Re: Penn 112 Black
Post by: Bryan Young on April 17, 2016, 06:03:04 AM
Ted,

Your collection always amazes me.

Bryan
Title: Re: Penn 112 Black
Post by: Tightlines667 on April 17, 2016, 06:04:26 AM
Quote from: Maxed Out on April 17, 2016, 05:15:10 AM
Andy, why be so hard on yourself. My advice is go get a run of the mill 112 3/0 that doesn't have exposed drags, then no worries about felt washer.

....and look for one with longer handle as it increases the gear ratio ;) ;) ;)

:)

Your reels always put a smile on my face Ted.
Title: Re: Penn 112 Black
Post by: FatTuna on April 17, 2016, 07:02:00 AM
Quote from: RowdyW on April 17, 2016, 04:40:34 AM
Any reel that uses 6-113 washers (3) will benefit from using 6-60 washers (5) to upgrade the drag stack. You will also need one more keyed & one more eared washer.

That's a good trick, didn't know about that.
Title: Re: Penn 112 Black
Post by: foakes on April 17, 2016, 01:17:05 PM
Amazing, as usual, Ted --

I would have to grow longer arms to use that crank!

Thanks for sharing.

For you guys who may not know -- Ted possibly prepares and restores reels better than anyone in the world.

He sets the highest standard.

Best,

Fred
Title: Re: Penn 112 Black
Post by: Alto Mare on April 17, 2016, 01:26:08 PM
Ted, let me know if you have another of those handles, I have a new 49 that could use it. Any color but black would do.
thanks!

Sal
Title: Re: Penn 112 Black
Post by: sdlehr on April 17, 2016, 04:11:21 PM
Quote from: Maxed Out on April 17, 2016, 05:15:10 AM

....and look for one with longer handle as it increases the gear ratio ;) ;) ;)
I get what you mean, but the gear ratio remains the same. It increases the torque you can apply to the drive shaft and would have the same feel as decreasing the gear ratio; the crank will be easier to turn, but you'll still retrieve the same amount of line per turn with the same gear ratio.

Just my 2 cents.

Sid
Title: Re: Penn 112 Black
Post by: Alto Mare on April 17, 2016, 04:25:11 PM
Quote from: sdlehr on April 17, 2016, 04:11:21 PM
Quote from: Maxed Out on April 17, 2016, 05:15:10 AM

....and look for one with longer handle as it increases the gear ratio ;) ;) ;)
I get what you mean, but the gear ratio remains the same. It increases the torque you can apply to the drive shaft and would have the same feel as decreasing the gear ratio; the crank will be easier to turn, but you'll still retrieve the same amount of line per turn with the same gear ratio.

Just my 2 cents.

Sid
Here is another 2 cents from me.
You are correct Sid, a longer arm gives you more leverage, but the ratio is always the same.
From my crazy tests that I've been doing in the past, I've noticed a longer arm helped damaging the gears quicker.
A longer arm will also  rack the reel back and forth, especially a larger reel while pulling heavy weight.
Most of the custom arms that I've requested are no longer that a 1/2" from the stock arms.
I believe Alan's custom arms are of the same length as stock. Alan probably already knew this and didn't tell us ;D.
With that said, i would still love to have that arm that Ted is showing on my new 49.

Sal
Title: Re: Penn 112 Black
Post by: foakes on April 17, 2016, 04:29:45 PM
Problem to me, although it is a conversation piece -- not too practical unless the handle metal was beefed up to SS.

A stock Penn handle will flex and distort -- this will be even more so.

Just my opinion.

Best,

Fred
Title: Re: Penn 112 Black
Post by: sdlehr on April 17, 2016, 04:57:57 PM
Quote from: Alto Mare on April 17, 2016, 04:25:11 PM

Here is another 2 cents from me.
You are correct Sid, a longer arm gives you more leverage, but the ratio is always the same.
From my crazy tests that I've been doing in the past, I've noticed a longer arm helped damaging the gears quicker.
A longer arm will also  rack the reel back and forth, especially a larger reel while pulling heavy weight.
Most of the custom arms that I've requested are no longer that a 1/2" from the stock arms.
I believe Alan's custom arms are of the same length as stock. Alan probably already knew this and didn't tell us ;D.
With that said, i would still love to have that arm that Ted is showing on my new 49.

Sal
Interesting, because we usually see rounding of the gear sleeve before damaging gears. In this case it's probably a difference between chronic and acute. It takes a while to round off a gear sleeve. That's from a chronic problem; it happens a little bit at a time, very gradually. Damaging gears happens with a sudden massive overload of the metal's capability to withstand the forces placed on it. Gears strip. That's an acute problem. If the gears didn't strip first the gear sleeve would likely be the next weakest link with this longer crank arm. Great to collect, not so great to fish with.... two different markets.

Sid
Title: Re: Penn 112 Black
Post by: Alto Mare on April 17, 2016, 05:24:06 PM
Gear damage doesn't always happen the same way.  I've seen the tip of the pinion splitting even though it had the reinforced ring, while the teeth looked good on both. On others, I've seen the teeth distorted on both, pinion and main, sometimes only on the main gear.
About the damaged gear sleeve, in most cases it will still bring  in the fish, the handle would still work, but will obviously need to be replaced.

I don't believe the earlier custom sleeves were heat treated, but I might be wrong.

To me a longer arm looks good, but not so good to fish with. I don't mind having mine a little longer, but most are only 1/2" longer than stock.

Sal
Title: Re: Penn 112 Black
Post by: handi2 on April 18, 2016, 12:04:56 AM
If you really want the felt washer for under the "top hat" metal washer I should have some. Only grease is needed there.

I'll look tomorrow and see if I have a nice chromed one piece "top hat" washer for that reel.
Title: Re: Penn 112 Black
Post by: steelhead_killer on April 18, 2016, 12:10:57 AM
Quote from: handi2 on April 18, 2016, 12:04:56 AM
If you really want the felt washer for under the "top hat" metal washer I should have some. Only grease is needed there.

Thanks!  The original cleaned up ok, I guess... Since I have zero experience with felt washers.  Clean it with lighter fluid?  Than re-grease it with cals?

Thanks Handi2

Andy
Title: Re: Penn 112 Black
Post by: Tightlines667 on April 18, 2016, 12:15:30 AM
Quote from: steelhead_killer on April 18, 2016, 12:10:57 AM
Quote from: handi2 on April 18, 2016, 12:04:56 AM
If you really want the felt washer for under the "top hat" metal washer I should have some. Only grease is needed there.

Thanks!  The original cleaned up ok, I guess... Since I have zero experience with felt washers.  Clean it with lighter fluid?  Than re-grease it with cals?

Thanks Handi2

Andy

I have cleaned them with a solvent (such as mineral oil), then soaked them in corrosion X.  Seems to provide good results.  Nothing wrong with some grease on the outside.  The idea is to help provide a barrier against water intrusion.
Title: Re: Penn 112 Black
Post by: basto on April 18, 2016, 05:48:54 AM
These are great reels. I have 2 now. A shelfy and a user. A photo of the stock drag that came with mine and a photo of the new drag. and last is the reel with a jig master handle which is a bit bigger than the original and works well.
(http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a601/george8322/112%20drag_zpsnzkjssmn.jpg)
(http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a601/george8322/Carbontex%20drag_zpsu2ki7qwa.jpg)(http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a601/george8322/P1030965_zpsa4wl4sma.jpg)
cheers
Basto
Title: Re: Penn 112 Black
Post by: Mattman NZ on April 19, 2016, 01:51:07 AM
Well that reel cleaned up nice Basto - job well done .
Rgds

Matt...
Title: Re: Penn 112 Black
Post by: steelhead_killer on April 19, 2016, 01:57:06 AM
Quote from: basto on April 18, 2016, 05:48:54 AM
These are great reels. I have 2 now. A shelfy and a user. A photo of the stock drag that came with mine and a photo of the new drag. and last is the reel with a jig master handle which is a bit bigger than the original and works well.
(http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a601/george8322/112%20drag_zpsnzkjssmn.jpg)
(http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a601/george8322/Carbontex%20drag_zpsu2ki7qwa.jpg)(http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a601/george8322/P1030965_zpsa4wl4sma.jpg)
cheers
Basto

So where did you get the different CF drags in different thickness?  Thanks by the way that diagram is great!
Title: Re: Penn 112 Black
Post by: basto on April 19, 2016, 02:21:04 AM
Quote from: Mattman NZ on April 19, 2016, 01:51:07 AM
Well that reel cleaned up nice Basto - job well done .
Rgds

Matt...

Thanks Matt
Yes, solid little Senators.
Title: Re: Penn 112 Black
Post by: basto on April 29, 2016, 01:28:35 AM
Not all of these 3/0 Senators come with 5 non metal drag washers. My other 3/0 came with 3 hard asbestos ones.
Title: Re: Penn 112 Black
Post by: steelhead_killer on April 29, 2016, 01:40:39 AM
(http://i1372.photobucket.com/albums/ag355/photoHumboldt/IMG_6745_zpspbe6ypuy.jpg) (http://s1372.photobucket.com/user/photoHumboldt/media/IMG_6745_zpspbe6ypuy.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Penn 112 Black
Post by: basto on April 29, 2016, 10:28:29 PM
Looking good...well done. They are very similar to the Long Beach Deluxe reels that preceded them.
cheers
Basto