Hey Boys,
I recently received my spinning reels back from Kevin (pro reel), and they look and feel great! Now I have to spool all 8 of them >:( I was wondering if it makes any sense to use 40lb. Jerry Brown hollow core, put a small (maybe 60') top shot of 30lb. mono spliced on, and tie direct to my 10' of 30lb. fluoro? I figure if I use the hollow core I won't have to change it out every year... just the top shot and leader. What do ya think guys? Also, does 30lb. mono fit in 40lb. Jerry hollow core? Or should I just stick to the mono backing with braid via the Albright or Alberto knot? Thanks Crew!
Dom
Quote from: broadway on March 02, 2011, 06:50:04 PM
Hey Boys,
I recently received my spinning reels back from Kevin (pro reel), and they look and feel great! Now I have to spool all 8 of them >:( I was wondering if it makes any sense to use 40lb. Jerry Brown hollow core, put a small (maybe 60') top shot of 30lb. mono spliced on, and tie direct to my 10' of 30lb. fluoro? I figure if I use the hollow core I won't have to change it out every year... just the top shot and leader. What do ya think guys? Also, does 30lb. mono fit in 40lb. Jerry hollow core? Or should I just stick to the mono backing with braid via the Albright or Alberto knot? Thanks Crew!
Dom
That's what I do...sort of. I use solid braid (cause I cannot afford hollow braid), splice on a 10' long hollow (5' solid in hollow), then slice on top-shot (5' mono/fluoro in hollow). I got some hollow 40# and cannot find the center of the darn thing, so I splice with 80# hollow braid.
I personally don't like to use very many knots if possible becasue they always seem to get caught in the guides one time or another no matter how small and compact the knot is. By they way, when I say caught, I mean I can hear it as it passes though the guides.
Makes sense, That might work for me, too... thanks for the recommendation, Bryan.
PS- I heard that also about the 40lb. spectra. I was told to double over a 2' piece of wire leader compress down, almost to a point to insert (bend first) to open up the spectra.
Dom
Dom: Check out these hollow threading needles. Dom http://www.dahoproducts.com/Work.html
Tried wire and splicing needle. Either eyes no can see or hand cannot find the center of such small hollow spectra. Tired 60# as well with failing results. So I stick to 80# or higher.
A buddy of mine uses those needles, and swears by them. I was just recommending to put the wire through before inserting the needle to help open it up a bit... at least that's what I was told. Did you see how much a set of those are? $200!! I'll use the ole' knitting needles!
Dom
Quote from: broadway on March 03, 2011, 06:07:49 AM
Did you see how much a set of those are? $200!! I'll use the ole' knitting needles!
Dom: You only need one, not the whole set. Check out Charkbait. Dom
That's true... if I only use one specific lb. test. Each needle is crafted to just fit one size line. They are cool and you're right, " how many do I need...maybe 2?!"
Thanks
Dom
Dom: Charkbait has a tutorial on how to run the needle up the middle of the hollow core. I am going to do it with some 130lb Jerry Brown I bought. Do you know what is the biggest line that will fit in the 130? Does it make sense to put in 100lb top shot, or even 130lb top shot? It would seem to me that if one has 130lb why go to a lighter line? This hollow core and top shot stuff is new to me. I am used to all mono. So I am doing my due diligence before leaping. Dom
Guys in Hawaii, this evening in fact, Ewalu Kai, Blackwater's Hawaiian destributor, is hosting a workshop/demonstration on splicing techniques in splicing 80# or 130# hollow to 300# mono (called rub line as it will often rub on the reef).
When I'm there in a couple of weeks, I'll check out what they are doing. You can also call Uncle John at Blackwater. He is always extremely helpful.
I talked to Basil at BHP Tackle. He said that JB 40# hollow was extemely difficult to splice. My recommendation is that you spool up JB 40# solid, and then splice on an end loop of 60 or 80# hollow. Then you can go L2L to put on your top shot of choice. Here is a link to a site that will show you how to do the solid to hollow splice.
http://www.streamlineleaders.com/links/
He also sells top shots tailored to spinning reels, if you are interested. Pricey, but well designed.
a friend of mine at a local shop says he has 40# hollow that is easy to splice. gotta find out what he has. alan
Good luck splicing anyones 40lb hollow spectra with mono or flouro, its a real pain IMO. What type of connection were you thinking of using, Soto crimps, nail nub knot or what?
For me I found that on most reels I spectra back I go either with short topshots or a long one. With short topshots say around 6' any knot I use will be outside of the rods guides while casting and on long ones I make sure the topshots length is longer than the casts I will make so the knot will not come into play in the cast also. Like on my surface iron or hoo bomb setups I tie like 80 to a 100 yards of mono on top fo my stectra. As much as I try or wish I could I cant cast that far and niether can 99% of others using most gear to catch fish. I will set aside diehard surf casters using super long rods.
On my bigger reels 80lb and over I do crimp but I really don't see a need for it in the lower line classes. Also for me I would skip 40lb spectra and move up to 50lb as it is much easier to see and work with IMO.
For connecting spectra to mono or flouro using an easy to tie knot look at the Bob Sands knot, it holds well and tests well also.
Edit: The gear I use is convetional and not spinning.
yeah, you know, that was my thought, too! i think what glen does is run a wire through the hollowcore just to loosen it up. then he bullets the nose of the fluorocarbon and runs it straight through, no needles. can't see how else he could do it, but he says it easy. he's a sharp fella and wouldn't lie.
I agree, Glen is an expert. He is filled with vast fishing knowledge.
Shimano's Power Pro Hollow Ace is supposedly spliceable down to 40 lb.
I'm sure they are, but my hands and eyes cannot splice lower than 60# spectra, and that is already difficult.
Bryan, anyone, Do you know what is the largest size mono topshot that will thread into 130 hollow core. Dominick
That's a simple and difficult question in one. My idiot answer is "it all depends." It depends on the manufacture and model of the hollow spectra you are using as well as the top shot you are stuffing into the hollow core spectra.
In general, I've seen one less class of mono/fluorocarbon. For example, you are using a 130# hollow core. You can probably use 100# topshot. If you are using thin lines, like the ones that come from Korea, you may be able to use 130# topshot.
Let me check with my Blackwater buddies for Blackwater hollow to Blackwater Shock Leader top shot and will get back to you.
Bryan: More specifically, I have 130 Jerry Brown. I checked out Blackwater but cannot see the difference for the premium price. What are the brands coming from Korea? Also are the Korean brands reliable or are they untested? I am of the opinion that (jump in and let me know if I am wrong) why use something less than 130 for the top shot, when that would only weaken the set-up? The only reason for the hollow core Spectra is to lessen the stretch that occurs with all mono. I am not worried about being spooled unless I hook into a Seal (sorry Alan ;D). Using hollow core will get the fish to the boat quicker and with less strain. Am I off. I am trying to gather as much information as I can before finishing up spooling my 50VSW. I will be tournament fishing for big Tuna. Dominick
Well, I checked with my friends at Blackwater and they essentially said that you should not go below then next lower class. So basically, if you are fishing 130# hollow core, the minimum size they recommend is 100# leader. 130# hollow core is recommended to splice 130# leader.
The reason why use a lower test on your top shot/leader? Good question. I believe that it is because of the reel itself. You can put a 50# spectra on a reel designed for 20#, so you size your top-shot based on the reel's limitations. That is my guess.
If you don't mind I will chime in here.
First one of the reasons Blackwater spectra costs so much is because it is a 16 strand braid. If you look at Jerry Brown 80lb hollow and I believe his 100lb you will notice it costs more than his 130lb. A few years back I asked Jerry about why the 80lb cost more (this was before he had 100lb) and his answer to me was because it was a 16 strand spectra and that a 16 strand costs more to manufacture.
Sometimes fish are a bit line shy that is the main reason to step down say from a 130lb to 100lb top shot. When your using big leaders like this mostly your fishing big fish and the main thing your looking for in this type of leader is abrasion resistance not breaking strength. Go ahead and pull on some strait 100lb floro or mono, I bet it is real tough to break, a lot tougher than the drag pressure you will be using. Now if your on a cow tuna, grander marlin or a toad swordfish most likely you will be on that fish for a while and this is where you will want a top shot with the most abrasion resistance possible. There is a saying "friends don't let friends fish 100lb test when cow town". Why do you think that is? Maybe it is because people have seen others to often lose a fish of a lifetime right outside of gaff range after a long battle because they decided to go with a lighter top shot.
The main reason spectra was put on west coast reels was because you could get more yards of line on a reel which aided greatly to our style of fishing not because of its much less strech.
Thank you SoCalAngler. Good to know.
SocalAngler: Here is what I'm thinking of doing. Feel free to shoot it down. This is on the 50SVW, 130lb Hollow Core Spectra. Chinese cuff 130lb mono for top shot approximately 80-100yds. At the end of the 130lb mono I will use an Invisaswivel. I have in my arsenal 40-60-80-100lb flourocarbon to tie on for a leader depending on the size fish bait, etc. Keeping in mind that I also use this reel for Marlin while dragging lures. You are right about abrasion resistance. The marlin lures have 8 feet of 300lb leader attached. My cedar plugs and other Tuna lures have 8 feet of 150lb leader. I also get the concept of the drag pressure being used. I also do not want to pull on a fish for hours unless it is a monster. My personal best is a 300 lb Blue Marlin which took about 35 minutes. I have been on longer for Striped Marlin using the boat's equipment because of line strength, drag settings, etc. The longest I had a fish on (Tuna or giant ray) was 50 minutes and never brought it to color. Dominick
Quote from: Pescachaser on May 05, 2011, 06:50:16 PM
Chinese cuff 130lb mono for top shot approximately 80-100yds. At the end of the 130lb mono I will use an Invisaswivel. I have in my arsenal 40-60-80-100lb flourocarbon to tie on for a leader depending on the size fish bait, etc. Keeping in mind that I also use this reel for Marlin while dragging lures.
I'm not sure what you are trying to accomplish with your rig setup this way. Are you trying to use one reel to fish 40 thru 100lb test? I see your using a 50 wide so that will be a whole lot of spectra, are you trying to keep the amount of spectra on the reel down? It appears you are with the long topshot, if this is the case you could always spool the reel with mono then spectra then back to mono to keep the spectra cost down. It has always been my thought to limit my connections as much as I can so why don't you go from your topshot strait to the hook or lure? I'm not trying to shoot anything down I guess I don't get what you are trying to do.
I have a few friends that are trying this technique out. They are spooling their Tiagra 80s with 180# spectra then 130# mono. I'm not sure how much spectra, but I think it is in the realm of 600 yards of spectra and the rest with mono. On their small boats, they really cannot horse the fish in, and will need the fish to run for a while before they can actually begin the reeling. So they want to make sure that they have ample line to allow this. They don't predict that the line will ever go to spectra, but knowing that they have ample capacity just in case.
Socalangler, I am not sure either. My research of the subject comes up with so many varying opinions I am not sure how to proceed. The set-up in my last post was an Idea to cover many fishing conditions. Here is my experience from fishing Baja regularly. When a school of Tuna is found fishing is done chumming and live lining Sardina. Yellow tail are line shy. When the fish are line shy we need to change the hook and the line. The Sardina are small, so a 1/0 is about the size you can get away with. Sometimes a 2/0 if the Sardina are a little bigger than usual. Those little fish cannot drag 100lb flouro, so we have to drop down the line weight. Basically it is a balancing act of matching the tackle with conditions. Also with the lighter line you run the risk of hooking a large Tuna and losing it after a lot of time is spent fighting it. Something I hae done many times. Of course I have other set-ups ready to go instead of the 50. When the rod is set with lures or Tuna feathers I tie directly to the 130. So I will continue to research until I get a good consensus of how to rig up.
If I was going to set up a 50 sized reel to fish Baja first of all it wouldn't be a wide reel but if this what you have so be it and I hope it works well for you. You will be able to get a ton of spectra on that reel that's why I said you could lay down some mono first then add as much spectra as you want. I would add a topshot of around 75 feet or shorter and you can make what ever kind of connection you like for your topshot such as a Bimini to reverse Albrite if you want to tie, Sato crimps or a Nail Nub for the finger cuff method or whatever. Being on a cruiser or in a panga you have the option to chase real big fish if needed that the Long Range fleet does not have so you will not need a huge amount of spectra if any at all with a wide reel. I know over the long run spectra will save you some money when re spooling but with a 50 W that's going to take some time. Personally I would not use a 50 sized reel for yellowtail or dorado, I would use it for 150lb plus tuna or the big billfish and that's pretty much it. I know then fishing in Cabo or the East Cape you are not sure what might grab your offering but do you need to bring a bazooka to a gun fight?
My father lives in Puerto Escondido which is around 17 miles south of Loreto in Baja and we have had our share of unsuspected catches, like two years ago a friends boat had issues so we went over to see if he needed any help. While waiting for him we see bait explode around us with two sailfish slashing thru it. I grab a 50lb bait rig and toss out a bait because we had some time to kill while waiting for the other guy. I get picked up and set the hook (circles of course for billfish) this fish acts like no sailfish and 45 minutes later we have 250lb thresher hooked in the corner of the mouth boat side. Or the last time I was there while fishing for tails at a high spot 250 feet deep we send down some baits but the first bait in the water gets down around 75 feet when the line starts screaming off the reel. The hook is set and out of the water leaps a striped marlin, so I know of the bycatch issue in Baja.
I would save the 50 for hunting big game and use other setups for your 40-50-60 or whatever.
Socal: I see by my last post I made a mistake and said yellow tail ??? and I meant yellow fin. Yes I am setting the 50 up for big Tuna and big Marlin. I bought the 50 vsw on flea bay it was new in the box and I got it for less than $375.00. It is the older 50vsw. I would not have opted for the wide had I been paying full fare. I know what you are talking about when you say unsuspected catches. This past March while we were live lining Sardina for schoolie Tuna, I hooked a Striped Marlin. I was fishing with a Penn Torque 100 with 25lb test line and a 1/0 hook. I was going to play it for a while but it jumped and came down on the line. Gave me 20 second rush. As a matter of fact, I don't usually take the 50 down with me in the spring. I do take it in the fall though. In the spring I take a Penn International 30 2 speed, Baja Special, Penn Torques 100 and 300 and a Penn Senator 114HLW. These set-ups cover everything expected in the spring. As an aside, I have a daughter who lives in Loreto. I sometimes make a fast trip down take a panga day or two. Dominick
Dominic I'm going to PM you.