...a paper weight?
I never see the black Senators mentioned on those lists of recommended tackle for long range tuna trips out of San Diego. Are they too much "old school"? Is the line retrieve ratio too slow and not adequate for such fishing?
Penn still sells some of the black Senators. Who buys them and what do they get used for?
I have an older 6/0 and 9/0, but found them too big for the bottom fishing I do.
Regards,
George
The black 4/0 and 6/0 have slower retrieves and less drag than the comparable red models. The black 4/0, especially, is outdated by modern standards -- a 21 gear ratio and only about 10 pounds of max drag. Penn never made a red, high speed 9/0 so the only 9/0 from Penn is the black one. It has the same drag washers and same main gear as the red 6/0. If you fish all mono, you might want the capacity of a 9/0 but if you fish braid, there's really no reason to use a 9/0.
George, if you run in to some of those larger black plate reels with the 3 piece spool , hold on to them , they're worth some money. They need to be in good condition though. ;)
Only have one, the 111, and it's for bottom fishing to 100 foot max depth. Kolekar 2/0 grip, s/s gear sleeve, 1+5 drag stack, and 30# mono on a 7 foot Penn Power Stick rod. 8)
Off the topic a bit, but I saw a black sideplate 114H while visiting rellies in San Diego. It looked and felt pretty good, spooled with mono and all. It was on the shelf as an artifact, probably could be bought at a handsome price. :o :o Need one, Dom?
Rob
here in hawaii people use them for trolling 9/0 up to 16/0 mostly 12/0 and 14/0. there are a ton of those reels left around. it is my understanding that penn has stoped making the 12/0, 14/0.
I have some in my collection. I only fish with Penn, as for the black plates, I use a couple of 49M for trolling, 3.5:1 gear ratio and 350 yd. 36lb. mono. Nice reels!
I used the 113 black senator for Salmon trolling in norcal for years when I was younger.
Nothing like a low geared 2:1 for pulling up that 2.5# ball.
Many slug's were guided into the net by it. ::) -g
someone is showing his age ..... ;D
I was bitten by the bug and just got an early start Alan!
It's a sickness :P
-g
I have a 111 senator thats been in use for over 60 years. This reel was a training reel for me , my kids and my grand kids. I use this reel more today than ever for all bottom fishing, everything from strippers ,blue fish, cod ,seabass ,fluke and everything in between.This reel because of its slow speed is not good for jigging . Thanks to this site and the members here I was able to recently rebuild it and now its better than new. The truly intresting thing is that this reel was used on and off for over 60 years and never cracked open for service until I found this site and was still pretty clean inside and working OK even with half of the drag stack fused. It was cared for ,washed and oiled etc but nothing special. If only cars and other things today were made like this . Doug
Doug, I'm a Penn guy myself and still use them today. They sure don't make them like they used to. Looks like that 111 has lots of sentimental values.....(beautiful). I'm going to recommend that you get yourself one of those eyed rod clamps and tie a string on it for when the little guys use it. Last year one of my son's buddy lost one of my rod and reel in the ocean, I told him that it was ok, I didn't want to discourage him, but boy did that hurt. Nice to have you with us,take care, Sal :)
Thanks Sal I have the newer rod clamps on all my reels with the eye hook but for different reasons. I use my 111 ,a 500 jigmaster on a 99 triburon frame newell gears and a 145 also on a triburon frame all with expensive guts and handles. All my penns have stainless gear sleves yokes and carbontex drags and washers from smooooth drag a lot of money invested in old stuff but I love it. I fish mainly party boats and this last year a number of my old friends had their stuff stotelen while on the way back from fishing, you leave your rod and reel outside in rod holder on the way back to the dock and you never know whats going to happen. I fish with the same boats every year and everyone knows me the captains and the mates are very concerned by this . I have seen the cops called and a few people arrested but I take no chances.I eigther tie things down to the rail or break it down and bring it inside with me. By the way I should post some pictures my old penns( if i figure how )they draw a lot of attention on the boats in spite of a lot regulars using expensive avets raptors and Sx's etc
I'm glad to see that others fish with their "Old School" black Senators. I plan to use my 111 for bottom fishing this year. My 114 and 115 will probably sit on the shelf, as they are overkill.
I just realized that the 111, 112, and 113 Senators have similar gearing and drag systems, so the main difference between them is line capacity (correct me if I'm wrong). George
George you are correct, all 3 have the same drag stack. the 111 and 112 have the same gears,the 113 also has the same main gear but the pinion gear is different. All 3 accept the same drag configuration. These are nice little reels, all I would do is replace the gear sleeve with the stainless steel sleeve and install some carbon washers, that's about the only thing they need. Sal
Part # for the main gear on the 111-112 and 113 is 5-66
part # for the pinion gear on the 111 and 112 is 13-49
part # for the pinion gear on the 113 is 13-113
I use my black Penn Senators on 3ft. teaser rods... Spooled with 200 lb. braid. I tow everything from Strip Teasers, Spreader bars, Dredges, Squid Chains, to monster single teasers... I've had them since 1985... They still work great...
My kind of guy. (Don't get the wrong idea ;D) What are they?
Just straight 113 Senators... I lock down the drags and go...
Hey Rob,
I never saw this thread, but did notice you said, "black side plated 114h", hell yes I'm interested in that. If you find out what he wants for it that would be SWEET!
If not I'm just gonna paint one of ny 114H's black ;D
Thanks
Dom
Hey Rob: I am interested. Take care of a Cal Guy. Ex-neighborhood. Dom
I don't want another old reel to use as a paper weight. Go for it Dom. Gotcha Rob ;D
Hey Rob,
Thanks for the heads up!... Dominick, I love me some vintage Penn paperweights! ;)
Dom
bert sent me a reel that looked like a wide spool penn 113. the problem is, i don't think they ever made a wide spool 113. i have some parts on order and will try to hobble it back together. i'm wondering if it ever worked in the first place.
Quote from: alantani on April 20, 2011, 09:05:51 AM
bert sent me a reel that looked like a wide spool penn 113. the problem is, i don't think they ever made a wide spool 113. i have some parts on order and will try to hobble it back together. i'm wondering if it ever worked in the first place.
I the spool Penn? Was it cut and expanded? I can't see how a stock Penn wide spool would work. :-\
Very interesting, let us know how you make out.
Quote from: alantani on April 20, 2011, 09:05:51 AM
bert sent me a reel that looked like a wide spool penn 113. the problem is, i don't think they ever made a wide spool 113. i have some parts on order and will try to hobble it back together. i'm wondering if it ever worked in the first place.
Hmmm, another frankenreel? Could a person cobble something together like this, using a 29-68 spool and a 30-113hlw stand? Is that what this is, Alan?
George
a long beach 68 frame and spool was actually my firs guess as well. we'll see if it works. parts should be here on friday.
The funny thing is that the reel stand does not have any rod clamp holes. So, the reel stand probably came from something else.
Alan, Is the spool the 29L-113HLW or as it been customized?
should have taken pictures but i've been swamped lately. so bert had a VERY old black 113 side plate with the old style bridge plate and gear sleeve. the shaft supporting the gear sleeve has a smaller diameter than the new ones. that means the stainless steel gear sleeves do not fit. it even had a 114h style dog and spring. i ordered a new bridge, installed a stainless steel gear sleeve and a new pinion gear. bert already had a new main gear. when you change one gear, you always have to change the other.
now the reel works perfectly. the only question remaining is what spool was on this reel. i checked and saw that the spool for the penn 113 blackie is a 29m-67. that is the same spool found in the long beach 67. the larger long beach reels and the senator 113 all use the same #26-60 right side plate bearing (actually a bushing). so i think you have an option of a narrow (long beach 66), standard (long beach 67) or wide (long beach 68) spool for the penn 113. as far as the bars and the reel seats, the you have a standard width already. the wide bars and reel seat for the penn 113hlw. the problem is now the narrow spool frame. we already have the bars from the narrow long beach 66. now we just need a reel seat that will accomodate 6 screws.
Do you think it's worth the effort? :-\ I would use it for parts. Just my opinion. ;)
to have a unique reel? absolutely!
so it looks like the 49 mariner spool will fit as well. you can use the bars from the 49. we now need reel seats for 2 narrower spools. first guess? a newell seat might work.
Alan, when you're talking about the 49 fitting , you're not talking about the actual spool correct? the 49 spool is a narrow 114, the spool is 3 3/8" wide and the width on a 113 spool is 2 7/8".
I'm going to recommend that he uses the 29m-67, this spool is the same size as a standard 113 and the stock stand will fit with no problems.
I have a few new 29m-67 in my bin , I could let him have one at a good price, I also have stands if needed.
The only problem is that I only ship in USA, sorry I don't have time to stand in line at the P.O. or fill forms.
bert wanted to use the wide spool because it was already loaded with spectra. alot of spectra!
Not a problem, I'm here to help (if needed).
Quote from: alantani on April 24, 2011, 11:35:42 PM
the problem is now the narrow spool frame. we already have the bars from the narrow long beach 66. now we just need a reel seat that will accomodate 6 screws.
The only 6 screw reel seat with the Long Beach 66 width, that I'm aware of, is the 99 Silver Beach. It won't fit the 113 side plates-I've tried it.
I'm surprised, and pleased, that someone would put time and money into a black Senator 113. I didn't think anyone else used or cared about these archaic reels anymore. I just bought an old 113 and will rebuild the drag stack to a 5+1 and replace the gear sleeve with stainless. I might even take it on my next fishing trip.
George
put 3, maybe 4 hours, into bert's reel. it was starting to get personal.....
The only 6 screw reel seat with the Long Beach 66 width, that I'm aware of, is the 99 Silver Beach. It won't fit the 113 side plates-I've tried it.
I'm surprised, and pleased, that someone would put time and money into a black Senator 113. I didn't think anyone else used or cared about these archaic reels anymore. I just bought an old 113 and will rebuild the drag stack to a 5+1 and replace the gear sleeve with stainless. I might even take it on my next fishing trip.
George
[/quote]
I'm pretty sure that the only stand that will fit the 113 is the# 30-113, you can also use the full frame# 183-113. If you try to use something different, it will create a lot of headaches as Alan is showing us. You can customize the reel, but I don't think it's worth it. You could install the wide stand # 30-113HLW, but you will than need a machinist to cut the standard spool in the center and extand it to the proper lenght, the stock spool won't work, the spool shaft won't fit the left and right side bushings. As I already mentioned this, I would go with the 29m-67 for the spool and the 30-113 for stand and be done with it. Just my 2 cents
By the way the stock spool for the 113 is 29m-113 but it is identical to the 29m-67, they just have different numbers stamped on them.
I checked the 68 spool #29-68 so this is what we have. On the 113 black you have the same options as the 113H red plate using the correct spool. Alan already mentioned this, the #29m-113 or 29m-67spool will work with the stand #30-113 this would make the reel a standard 113, the 29m-68 would work with the stand #30-113HLW this would make the reel a 113 wide. These are the only options on this reel, standard and wide. I shouldn't say that, I'm sure that Alan can rig something up to make this reel a narrow version and make me look stupid, never mind I already do that on my own ;D ;D
I still use my 6/0 (standard) or senator , mainly for bottom fishing landbased holds 500meters of 50lb line, and have upgraded the old drag to ht 100 drag ...its been my go to reel for rays n sharks under 6ft...have used it now for 20 years and befor that it was a mate of mines reel from new....it has good lucky history and has been a great reel .
ill never get rid of it. I dont mind the slow retreve, think its got a bit of an advantage with rays over 100lb etc.
Quote from: Harry on April 29, 2011, 06:54:13 AM
I still use my 6/0 (standard) or senator , mainly for bottom fishing landbased holds 500meters of 50lb line, and have upgraded the old drag to ht 100 drag ...its been my go to reel for rays n sharks under 6ft...have used it now for 20 years and befor that it was a mate of mines reel from new....it has good lucky history and has been a great reel .
ill never get rid of it. I dont mind the slow retreve, think its got a bit of an advantage with rays over 100lb etc.
I don't blame you and I'm sure after we are gone, someone else will get to enjoy it. With proper care these reels will last forever. Isn't that amazing? They sure don't make them like they used to.
Quote from: Alto Mare on April 30, 2011, 09:36:21 PM
Quote from: Harry on April 29, 2011, 06:54:13 AM
I still use my 6/0 (standard) or senator , mainly for bottom fishing landbased holds 500meters of 50lb line, and have upgraded the old drag to ht 100 drag ...its been my go to reel for rays n sharks under 6ft...have used it now for 20 years and befor that it was a mate of mines reel from new....it has good lucky history and has been a great reel .
ill never get rid of it. I dont mind the slow retreve, think its got a bit of an advantage with rays over 100lb etc.
I don't blame you and I'm sure after we are gone, someone else will get to enjoy it. With proper care these reels will last forever. Isn't that amazing? They sure don't make them like they used to.
Harry and Sal -
You're both absolutely right. Broadway/Dom will probably agree. My newest black Senator is the 113HN (does that count?) and it may end up as my "go-to" reel. The slogan at Newell is
"Nothing casts like a Newell." Penn's should be
"Nothing lasts like a classic Penn." IMHO ;) Five Senators and counting. Don't say it Dominick. :D
Rob
Rob, I'm not sure if that counts, but I'm hearing great things about that reel. Let me know how that reel is working out for you and maybe I'll break down and buy one for myself. You know it's not easy for us old-school guys to make changes ;D ;D
Quote from: norcal pescador on April 30, 2011, 11:53:15 PM
My newest black Senator is the 113HN (does that count?)
No it doesn't (just kidding-hahaha). I have a 113HN and always take it with me when I fish for albacore, but I haven't used it much. I usually reach for my Newelled Jigmaster, instead. I like the 113HN "old school" look and can cast reasonably well with it.
The latest Senators to my collection are the 113 (not H) and 113H. I was surprised by the differences. The 113H is a much more capable reel, drag wise. I see what Alan means when he says the 113H is a good deal.
I seem to be collecting Senators and I need to quit it or I'll never be able to retire.
George
I hate to tell you George, you're in it for good ;D
Enjoy it! It's only money! Sal ;)
Oh George,
You're in trouble now - I have 18 Penns, most with Accurate or Tiburon frames, ss gear sleeves, etc,etc, etc....a lot unused. Mostly red, some black.
This game is addictive. My goal now is to wear them out!
But you just gotta have 'em.
My advice - either run a mile now, or embrace it...
Simon