Has anyone got any personal experience with these?
Are they physically different to the standard equivalent?
Are they readily distinguishable from regular bearings?
I would really like to hear from someone with first hand experience on this.
Feel free to post pics.
TIA,
Brett.
OK so here's the deal.
Mag seal bearings typically do NOT look like the big red apple in the Daiwa advertisement.
Here is a 2015 Saltiga10H Overhead Jigging Reel. It has "Mag Seal" inscribed on the RH casing.
BUT: The only mag seal bearing in the whole reel is the upper pinion bearing. All others are regular SS ZZ bearings.
Can anyone smell Daiwa advertising carrots cooking here?
I would have thought a better application would have been the RHS spool bearing, especially since the Cast Control cap has an O-ring seal!
The upper pinion bearing is pictured in the foreground. During servicing Daiwa Techs flush these and apply a fresh batch of Ferro-fluid .
Physically, the only distinguishing feature is the mag seal bearing is perhaps a little wider than usual. The schematics I received are still in Japanese but I am hoping the part description translates "mag sealed bearing" otherwise how do you tell the difference?
The good news is that the reel is one nice piece of kit. It would wanna be at A$800 for a small jigging reel!
~
What are the dimensions of the magseal bearing Brett?
Quote from: ReelClean on September 26, 2016, 03:58:02 AM
What are the dimensions of the magseal beaing Brett?
sorry Steve, the reel is back together now.
But notice the tiny plastic sleeve above the bearing in the pic above. This sits inside the inner race insulating the pinion from direct contact. This is just one example of some very nice plastic innovations in this reel which make operation very smooth indeed.
The pinion release slides on a bed of nylon.
I will try to remember next time mate.
~
I wonder if they put the plastic sleeve in there to prevent any "interference" from the metal shaft with the magnet plate in the bearing?
Quote from: ReelClean on September 26, 2016, 03:58:02 AM
What are the dimensions of the magseal bearing Brett?
OK, I opened it up again just for you Steve ;) Well maybe I was little curious.
Here is the beast in the flesh so to speak. Doesn't look anything special does it? It measures 6 x 10 x 4 mm.
While the dimensions look pretty standard, this size is not available as a conventional SS bearing that I can see, so non-proprietary substitutes may not be an option?
I will have to check with Daiwa regarding pricing.
~
Doesn't look like the seals are going to come out easily, but I guess if you can remove the sideplates you could just flush, repack and leave them open. As you say, don't see any listings for 6x10x4, but I have a selection of shims 8x10x0.3/0.2/0.1 that could be stacked to allow a 6x10x3 to be fitted. If you could find some 1mm shims in 8x10 you could prob make it all fit without stacking shims.
Quote from: ReelClean on October 11, 2016, 12:37:36 AM
Doesn't look like the seals are going to come out easily, but I guess if you can remove the sideplates you could just flush, repack and leave them open. As you say, don't see any listings for 6x10x4, but I have a selection of shims 8x10x0.3/0.2/0.1 that could be stacked to allow a 6x10x3 to be fitted. If you could find some 1mm shims in 8x10 you could prob make it all fit without stacking shims.
Yeah I did consider that. The plastic sleeve that fits inside the inner race could complicate things a bit but prolly doable.
If the pinion travel allows it, another nylon backing washer might do the trick (see top pick).
Daiwa prolly chose that particular size for a reason?
Spoke to Diawa Australia again. They just soak the mags in solvent to flush out the old FF so a brake cleaner aerosol and a bearing blaster should work well.
Wholesale on a new bearing is around A$25 - about double the cost of a regular bearing.
~
Would take a 6x10x3mm ss bearing plus a 6x10x1mm ss washer. The bearing is nearly as strong as a 4mm.
Wolli
Quote from: ReelClean on October 11, 2016, 12:37:36 AM
Doesn't look like the seals are going to come out easily, but I guess if you can remove the sideplates you could just flush, repack and leave them open. As you say, don't see any listings for 6x10x4, but I have a selection of shims 8x10x0.3/0.2/0.1 that could be stacked to allow a 6x10x3 to be fitted. If you could find some 1mm shims in 8x10 you could prob make it all fit without stacking shims.
6x10x4 Bearings . . .
http://search.bocabearings.com/parts/6x10x4 (http://search.bocabearings.com/parts/6x10x4)AND
http://www.bocabearings.com/bearing-inventory/Radial-Bearings/17998/6x10x4-FBK106C2OS7LD (http://www.bocabearings.com/bearing-inventory/Radial-Bearings/17998/6x10x4-FBK106C2OS7LD)Tight Lines !
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gL60zTJJUXg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gL60zTJJUXg)
http://www.fieldandstream.com/blogs/honest-angler/2013/01/magnetic-oil-your-fishing-reel-future (http://www.fieldandstream.com/blogs/honest-angler/2013/01/magnetic-oil-your-fishing-reel-future)
Quote from: ez2cdave on October 18, 2016, 08:01:27 PM
Quote from: ReelClean on October 11, 2016, 12:37:36 AM
Doesn't look like the seals are going to come out easily, but I guess if you can remove the sideplates you could just flush, repack and leave them open. As you say, don't see any listings for 6x10x4, but I have a selection of shims 8x10x0.3/0.2/0.1 that could be stacked to allow a 6x10x3 to be fitted. If you could find some 1mm shims in 8x10 you could prob make it all fit without stacking shims.
6x10x4 Bearings . . .
http://search.bocabearings.com/parts/6x10x4 (http://search.bocabearings.com/parts/6x10x4)
AND
http://www.bocabearings.com/bearing-inventory/Radial-Bearings/17998/6x10x4-FBK106C2OS7LD (http://www.bocabearings.com/bearing-inventory/Radial-Bearings/17998/6x10x4-FBK106C2OS7LD)
Tight Lines !
If you scrutinize the kit components you will see that these are not 6 x 10 x 4.
Looks like Boca's search engine is defaulting to the closest match.
We did look here.
~
Quote from: exp2000 on October 18, 2016, 10:42:45 PM
Quote from: ez2cdave on October 18, 2016, 08:01:27 PM
Quote from: ReelClean on October 11, 2016, 12:37:36 AM
Doesn't look like the seals are going to come out easily, but I guess if you can remove the sideplates you could just flush, repack and leave them open. As you say, don't see any listings for 6x10x4, but I have a selection of shims 8x10x0.3/0.2/0.1 that could be stacked to allow a 6x10x3 to be fitted. If you could find some 1mm shims in 8x10 you could prob make it all fit without stacking shims.
6x10x4 Bearings . . .
http://search.bocabearings.com/parts/6x10x4 (http://search.bocabearings.com/parts/6x10x4)
AND
http://www.bocabearings.com/bearing-inventory/Radial-Bearings/17998/6x10x4-FBK106C2OS7LD (http://www.bocabearings.com/bearing-inventory/Radial-Bearings/17998/6x10x4-FBK106C2OS7LD)
Tight Lines !
If you scrutinize the kit components you will see that these are not 6 x 10 x 4.
Looks like Boca's search engine is defaulting to the closest match.
We did look here.
~
We'll just have to keep hunting . . . I seriously doubt that Daiwa commissioned special bearings to be manufactured, just for these reels.
Tight Lines !
http://xgu.en.alibaba.com/product/60528626223-803110204/Durable_inch_miniature_ball_bearing_6x10x4.html (http://xgu.en.alibaba.com/product/60528626223-803110204/Durable_inch_miniature_ball_bearing_6x10x4.html)
https://www.aliexpress.com/w/wholesale-ball-bearing-6x10x4.html (https://www.aliexpress.com/w/wholesale-ball-bearing-6x10x4.html)
http://www.ecer.com/pz257c137-cz1fddbb1-customized-high-precision-miniature-ball-bearing-6x10x4-for-toy-car.html (http://www.ecer.com/pz257c137-cz1fddbb1-customized-high-precision-miniature-ball-bearing-6x10x4-for-toy-car.html)
Quote"We'll just have to keep hunting . . . I seriously doubt that Daiwa commissioned special bearings to be manufactured, just for these reels."
If Boca don't stock it your chances are slim to nothing.
~
Quote from: ez2cdave on October 19, 2016, 02:36:35 AM
http://xgu.en.alibaba.com/product/60528626223-803110204/Durable_inch_miniature_ball_bearing_6x10x4.html (http://xgu.en.alibaba.com/product/60528626223-803110204/Durable_inch_miniature_ball_bearing_6x10x4.html)
https://www.aliexpress.com/w/wholesale-ball-bearing-6x10x4.html (https://www.aliexpress.com/w/wholesale-ball-bearing-6x10x4.html)
http://www.ecer.com/pz257c137-cz1fddbb1-customized-high-precision-miniature-ball-bearing-6x10x4-for-toy-car.html (http://www.ecer.com/pz257c137-cz1fddbb1-customized-high-precision-miniature-ball-bearing-6x10x4-for-toy-car.html)
It's strange that no one makes that size in stainless; one is carbon/chrome steel (rust like a b@stard), one full ceramic (shock load resistance?) and last one I am not sure. As exp2000 says, if it was available in SS I thought Boca would have it. Might be worth an email to Jeff Brooks at Boca?
Call me a cynic, but it would not surprise me at all if these dimensions were deliberately chosen.
Daiwa would rather you blow your wallet upgrading to the latest and greatest rather than spend pocket change retrofitting yesterdays model. (Daiwa have stated that mag seal bearings are not backwards compatible)
And they certainly would not want you altering their new creations by swapping these out for regular bearings.
~
Quote from: exp2000 on October 19, 2016, 09:35:07 AM
Call me a cynic, but it would not surprise me at all if these dimensions were deliberately chosen.
Daiwa would rather you blow your wallet upgrading to the latest and greatest rather than spend pocket change retrofitting yesterdays model. (Daiwa have stated that mag seal bearings are not backwards compatible)
And they certainly would not want you altering their new creations by swapping these out for regular bearings.
~
You're not being cynical, at all. In fact, you're probably right on target !
Tight Lines !
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlOp5CbA6mw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlOp5CbA6mw)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYgakH4LZ30 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYgakH4LZ30)
One of the members here has been exchanging PMs with me. He contacted Ferrotec and received this info which he is happy to share.
I got a reply from Ferrotec Industries USA:
Their chemists seem to think there would be no reason why the APG L11 class ferrofluid wouldnt work to lubricate magnetic ball bearings.
They did mention they produce a class of ferrofluid especially for this which is very similar almost identical in makeup and ingredients to the APG L11 fluid.
I wonder if theyre referring to the fluid they manufacture for Daiwa?
The APG L11 fluid is the one I selected for Unobtainoil to replace Magseal oil, it seems it may also be satisfactory for lubing the mag bearing.
cheers
Steve
Quote from: ReelClean on October 19, 2016, 10:36:45 PM
One of the members here has been exchanging PMs with me. He contacted Ferrotec and received this info which he is happy to share.
I got a reply from Ferrotec Industries USA:
Their chemists seem to think there would be no reason why the APG L11 class ferrofluid wouldnt work to lubricate magnetic ball bearings.
They did mention they produce a class of ferrofluid especially for this which is very similar almost identical in makeup and ingredients to the APG L11 fluid.
I wonder if theyre referring to the fluid they manufacture for Daiwa?
The APG L11 fluid is the one I selected for Unobtainoil to replace Magseal oil, it seems it may also be satisfactory for lubing the mag bearing.
cheers
Steve
Thanks for the good news mate. Jon is going to try some out in bearings so this looks promising.
~
Saltiga star drags with mag-sealed bearing(s?) are now posted on Chark's site, as of today on the Weekly Special page. The design of the Saltiga 10, with just the one, leads me to wonder if the bigger reels also are using just one mag-sealed bearing, and whether it might not be the same size throughout the entire reel series.
It may be a little early to look for schematics, but it's certainly worth a try. If I find them for the larger reels, I'll report back.
Quote from: BrianBM on December 05, 2016, 12:23:18 AM
Saltiga star drags with mag-sealed bearing(s?) are now posted on Chark's site, as of today on the Weekly Special page. The design of the Saltiga 10, with just the one, leads me to wonder if the bigger reels also are using just one mag-sealed bearing, and whether it might not be the same size throughout the entire reel series.
It may be a little early to look for schematics, but it's certainly worth a try. If I find them for the larger reels, I'll report back.
It also seems that the "Mag Sealed" bearings are odd sizes to make it difficult to substitute standard-sized bearings in their place.
https://www.parts-express.com/ferrofluid-900ul-general-purpose-for-4-diameter-vc--340-546 (https://www.parts-express.com/ferrofluid-900ul-general-purpose-for-4-diameter-vc--340-546)
(https://www.parts-express.com/data/default/images/catalog/240/340-546_HR_0.jpg)
MSDS ATTACHED . . .
Tight Lines !