I have a customer inquiring on a quote to service Shimano baitcasters. I believe one is a Curado. Any important things to keep of note? Are these types of reels difficult to work on or easier? I've done conventionals and spinners. Also to those of you who service them, are the costs about the same or different than servicing conventionals?
Thanks in advance
check some tutorials on the baitcasters shimano and daiwa, the size 100 and 200 and you will get the idea, I hate to work on spinnings so if you already work on those, small lowprofile baitcasters are not that bad
for me they are more difficult for the only reason that they are smaller, everything is smaller, but they follow the same idea, mechanics, etc than the big brothers casting with levelwinds
about the cost of the service I will let the rest of the guys chime here cuz Im really bad at charging for my services, mostly friends, co-workers, guys/captains I know when going fishing, etc not many walk-ins to charge a normal price.
Once you do one the rest will be very similar. Especially a reel like the Curado low profile. No more difficult than a small spinning reel.
A service would included new Carbontex drags and spool bearings if needed. You will need to learn how to open the small 3x10x4 and 4x10x4 spool bearings that they all use. With the exception of Daiwa that will have different size bearings with pressed in shields.
I would ask for $20.00 in labor only for the Curado (in good working condition) and luckily its one of the easiest to learn on.
Keith
Quote from: steelfish on November 29, 2016, 05:04:27 PM
check some tutorials on the baitcasters shimano and daiwa, the size 100 and 200 and you will get the idea, I hate to work on spinnings so if you already work on those, small lowprofile baitcasters are not that bad
for me they are more difficult for the only reason that they are smaller, everything is smaller, but they follow the same idea, mechanics, etc than the big brothers casting with levelwinds
about the cost of the service I will let the rest of the guys chime here cuz Im really bad at charging for my services, mostly friends, co-workers, guys/captains I know when going fishing, etc not many walk-ins to charge a normal price.
Thanks for the info. started already to look up tutorials.
Quote from: handi2 on November 29, 2016, 05:41:17 PM
Once you do one the rest will be very similar. Especially a reel like the Curado low profile. No more difficult than a small spinning reel.
A service would included new Carbontex drags and spool bearings if needed. You will need to learn how to open the small 3x10x4 and 4x10x4 spool bearings that they all use. With the exception of Daiwa that will have different size bearings with pressed in shields.
I would ask for $20.00 in labor only for the Curado (in good working condition) and luckily its one of the easiest to learn on.
Keith
I noticed on some of the tutorials, a lot of guys don't open the bearings. they dip em in acetone. Im guessing like you said they are hard to manipulate the shields being removed. The other reel he wants a quote for is a Metanium MGL. Im guessing you'd ask more for a reel like the Metanium?
Besides spool bearings everything else bearing related would be greased?
$20 plus the carbontex drag cost and spool bearings?
As a user of the reels I find the small baitcaster has many more parts and find it at least twice as time consuming as an older large conventional star drag reel, to service.
More E clips and springs that go on a mission to space as well. ;D ;D
YouTube may be very helpful . . .
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=shimano+reel+maintenance (https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=shimano+reel+maintenance)
Tight Lines !
1) you may want to stay away from JDM models like Metanium due to parts availability in US, unless you have a SERIOUS Shimano parts library & knowledge of what's interchangeable w/ US-model parts
2) some swear by MEK as a better solvent than acetone, for flushing bearings "shields-on" (albeit, the fumes are MUCH nastier, so they do it outdoors)
Thanks for all the input. I did not know the Metanium was JDM. Im going to see what the customer decides to do.
The Matanium mgl is imported by Shimano Corp. so is known as a USDM reel. They will warranty those purchased in the US, as well as stock parts.
Cheers.
Terry.
Be advised that you need a proper tool to remove the spool pin that retains the pinion side spool bearing. Hedgehog Studio makes a nice compact one I like, or spool pin pliers from Boca.
Bend a spool shaft not using proper tools and it will be spendy.
Baitcasters comprise most of my work.
Shellite / lighter fluid / AKA naphtha? is the best cleaning solvent - good solvent performance and no nasty fumes.
This is the main component in aerosol brake cleaners which are also useful.
For best results put bearings in a glass spice jar and place in a heated ultrasonic cleaner for 5 minutes. Repeat till clear.
Spool bearings get oil. The rest get light grease.
On Curados pay special attention to the following:
There is only one clutch return spring. These can become weak over time so think about replacing it while you have the reel open.
Watch out for the goal posts (pinion yoke). These are crappy metal so often bubble and flake - replace if signs warrant. Protect with grease in any case.
The large bearing at the pinion base is often compromised - check carefully. Pump it full of light anti-corrosion grease for better protection. Make sure the inner bore is rust free - clean if not. Polish this pinion end. Lube with anti-corrosion grease.
A component of the standard washers seems to react with the base metal in the maingear so the surface often bubbles. Restore surface with Dremel brush and replace with Carbontex.
Good luck :)
~
Quote from: exp2000 on November 30, 2016, 04:12:33 AM
Baitcasters comprise most of my work.
Shellite / lighter fluid / AKA naphtha? is the best cleaning solvent - good solvent performance and no nasty fumes.
This is the main component in aerosol brake cleaners which are also useful.
For best results put bearings in a glass spice jar and place in a heated ultrasonic cleaner for 5 minutes. Repeat till clear.
Spool bearings get oil. The rest get light grease.
On Curados pay special attention to the following:
There is only one clutch return spring. These can become weak over time so think about replacing it while you have the reel open.
Watch out for the goal posts (pinion yoke). These are crappy metal so often bubble and flake - replace if signs warrant. Protect with grease in any case.
The large bearing at the pinion base is often compromised - check carefully. Pump it full of light anti-corrosion grease for better protection. Make sure the inner bore is rust free - clean if not. Polish this pinion end. Lube with anti-corrosion grease.
A component of the standard washers seems to react with the base metal in the maingear so the surface often bubbles. Restore surface with Dremel brush and replace with Carbontex.
Good luck :)
~
Wow Great info exp2000 will definitely keep that in mind.
Im going to have to invest on an ultrasonic cleaner later down the line. An suggestions to clean without the US cleaner?
Im going to have to invest on an ultrasonic cleaner later down the line. An suggestions to clean without the US cleaner?
Toothbrushes, jelly jars, solvents, and simple green...
Honestly, if a reel repair person ever uses an ultrasonic cleaner -- they will wonder why they did not use one before.
Exceptions would be a basic service without disassembling the entire reel -- perfectly acceptable and a good technique when done properly.
However, I prefer a complete service/restoration whenever possible -- no comebacks for me that way.
It is surprising how little a decent US cleaner costs these days.
Here is a good one for $113.89 on ebay -- and there are others as well.
SS, 6 Liters, timer and heat --
Be careful with the solutions, particularly anodized or plastic parts -- experiment first.
Lets face it -- this is the cost of one small, average reel.
Best,
Fred
sorry, I'm dated... used to Scorpions/Metaniums being JDM's
Quote from: red93crxhatch on November 30, 2016, 05:40:31 PM
...An suggestions to clean without the US cleaner?
you can always agitate manually: shake in a clear jar w/ tight lid & repeat until solvent runs clear (make sure jar/lid are not susceptible to the solvent you choose) -- less efficient, but it works for non-volume service
Quote from: johndtuttle on November 30, 2016, 04:06:43 AM
Be advised that you need a proper tool to remove the spool pin that retains the pinion side spool bearing. Hedgehog Studio makes a nice compact one I like, or spool pin pliers from Boca.
Bend a spool shaft not using proper tools and it will be spendy.
I bought one of those from Hedgehog Studio, but was thoroughly disappointed. It is not robust enough to remove pins from a full size reel, and the discription on their website does not make that clear.
Quote from: philaroman on November 30, 2016, 06:18:53 PM
you can always agitate manually: shake in a clear jar w/ tight lid & repeat until solvent runs clear (make sure jar/lid are not susceptible to the solvent you choose) -- less efficient, but it works for non-volume service
What parts of the reel you clean using this manual technique?
Quote from: Cor on November 30, 2016, 06:26:06 PM
Quote from: johndtuttle on November 30, 2016, 04:06:43 AM
Be advised that you need a proper tool to remove the spool pin that retains the pinion side spool bearing. Hedgehog Studio makes a nice compact one I like, or spool pin pliers from Boca.
Bend a spool shaft not using proper tools and it will be spendy.
I bought one of those from Hedgehog Studio, but was thoroughly disappointed. It is not robust enough to remove pins from a full size reel, and the discription on their website does not make that clear.
Sometimes they release these in more robust materials such as brass or even stainless. These are the ones you want. They are ideal for baitcasters.
~
Quote
Im going to have to invest on an ultrasonic cleaner later down the line. An suggestions to clean without the US cleaner?
https://youtu.be/mH8JdiD1ldI
~
Down the road when you really get into this all the time invest in TSI 301 and TSI 321 oils.
You can put a little TSI 301 in a container, clear or not, drop the bearings in and shake. Let them sit while doing something else. If the bearings were good to start with they will be ready to install. This is a quick method if your not going to open the shields.
Keith
Quote from: johndtuttle on November 30, 2016, 04:06:43 AM
Be advised that you need a proper tool to remove the spool pin that retains the pinion side spool bearing. Hedgehog Studio makes a nice compact one I like, or spool pin pliers from Boca.
Bend a spool shaft not using proper tools and it will be spendy.
Yea I started looking at the hedgehog ones. Going to take a look at Boca's plier.
Quote from: foakes on November 30, 2016, 06:01:28 PM
Im going to have to invest on an ultrasonic cleaner later down the line. An suggestions to clean without the US cleaner?
Toothbrushes, jelly jars, solvents, and simple green...
Honestly, if a reel repair person ever uses an ultrasonic cleaner -- they will wonder why they did not use one before.
Exceptions would be a basic service without disassembling the entire reel -- perfectly acceptable and a good technique when done properly.
However, I prefer a complete service/restoration whenever possible -- no comebacks for me that way.
It is surprising how little a decent US cleaner costs these days.
Here is a good one for $113.89 on ebay -- and there are others as well.
SS, 6 Liters, timer and heat --
Be careful with the solutions, particularly anodized or plastic parts -- experiment first.
Lets face it -- this is the cost of one small, average reel.
Best,
Fred
I'm looking into investing in one once the demand for reel service increases. Surprisingly its not active here in Miami considering fishing is big down here and I'm not too aware of reel service shops around here.
Quote from: exp2000 on December 01, 2016, 12:03:04 AM
Quote
Im going to have to invest on an ultrasonic cleaner later down the line. An suggestions to clean without the US cleaner?
https://youtu.be/mH8JdiD1ldI
~
going to look into that. so overall basically its not too common to open bearings on baitcaster reels? in our regular conventionals and others where open spool bearings are a plus why not here?
Quote from: handi2 on December 01, 2016, 12:37:02 AM
Down the road when you really get into this all the time invest in TSI 301 and TSI 321 oils.
You can put a little TSI 301 in a container, clear or not, drop the bearings in and shake. Let them sit while doing something else. If the bearings were good to start with they will be ready to install. This is a quick method if your not going to open the shields.
Keith
yea I have already grouped up some tools for the future if this works out for me. Will look into this as well.
My Hedghog tool is starting to wear out and get loose. Hopefully, that reel design with three spool bearings will become obsolete soon. Life is easier when you don't need tools to pop out the spool bearings for a quick cleaning.
-steve
Quoteso overall basically its not too common to open bearings on baitcaster reels? in our regular conventionals and others where open spool bearings are a plus why not here?
Anything with a retaining clip is fair game, but the smaller the bearing, the more fiddly the task is.
You can always pry off pressed shields if you are happy to use open bearings.
~
There's nothing wrong with an open bearing, but sometimes you can mess up a really good bearing by removing the seals. It doesn't take much pressure at all to warp the cage. I don't remove the seal unless the bearing is not performing well and there is nothing else to loose.,
-steve
Quote from: oc1 on December 01, 2016, 07:05:22 PM
There's nothing wrong with an open bearing, but sometimes you can mess up a really good bearing by removing the seals. It doesn't take much pressure at all to warp the cage. I don't remove the seal unless the bearing is not performing well and there is nothing else to loose.,
-steve
Just keep your approach shallow and you will avoid contacting the bearing cage.
It helps to open up a gap with a scalpel first so you can get in there with something more robust.
Sometimes pressed shields can be very stubborn to remove.
~
Quote from: exp2000 on December 02, 2016, 02:36:49 AM
Quote from: oc1 on December 01, 2016, 07:05:22 PM
There's nothing wrong with an open bearing, but sometimes you can mess up a really good bearing by removing the seals. It doesn't take much pressure at all to warp the cage. I don't remove the seal unless the bearing is not performing well and there is nothing else to loose.,
-steve
Just keep your approach shallow and you will avoid contacting the bearing cage.
It helps to open up a gap with a scalpel first so you can get in there with something more robust.
Sometimes pressed shields can be very stubborn to remove.
~
For the small pressed in shields i use the tip of a razor blade first then the scalpel as mentioned above. This gets the shields up so you can use a small flat head screwdriver.
For the small pressed in shields i use the tip of a razor blade first then the scalpel as mentioned above. This gets the shields up so you can use a small flat head screwdriver.
[/quote]
I use an exacto knife to get the shield started -- then either a old knife or a small screwdriver to get them out.
Occasionally, I have needed to carefully poke a hole in the shield to get them started.
Whenever possible, just one shield is removed, and one stays in place. After cleaning, and regreasing, the shield side goes towards the greatest threat of water intrusion.
Occasionally, if not too bad, and I am certain the bearings are operating at their best -- both shields stay in place, are cleaned, then dropped into a small jar of synthetic oil for a few minutes before reassembly.
All larger, open bearings -- and any bearings that will be used in the salt -- always have at least one shield removed, cleaned, and packed with Marine Grease. And all bearings are tested for proper operation before reinstalling.
Best,
Fred
This has become a great informative thread. Thanks for all the tips.
Quote
I bought one of those from Hedgehog Studio, but was thoroughly disappointed. It is not robust enough to remove pins from a full size reel, and the discription on their website does not make that clear.
Sometimes they release these in more robust materials such as brass or even stainless. These are the ones you want. They are ideal for baitcasters.[/quote]
http://www.hedgehog-studio.co.jp/product/2 (http://www.hedgehog-studio.co.jp/product/2)
The cross wrench comes with high rigidity stainless steel that has been more strengthened than ever before.
The wrench length and screw part have been revised, which enables safer and smoother desorption of the pin.
Also the Remover has been improved in part to be compatible to many kinds of spools.
It is the new standard of spool bearing replacement tools designed to be useful.You even have a choice of colors :)
~
My hedgehog is starting to wear out the threads on the blue aluminum block.
-steve
Quote from: oc1 on December 04, 2016, 09:12:29 AM
My hedgehog is starting to wear out the threads on the blue aluminum block.
-steve
"Renewed version" of Spool Bearing Pin Remover!
Stainless-steel screw hole makes a substantial improvement in durability of the screw.I use two units because it saves you a lot of time from having to always swap press ends so there is much less wear and tear on the block thread too.
~
My old ones have a brass block so threads don't wear out.
But I like the features of this new "Type R" model so much that I just ordered one.
I especially like the replaceable press pin feature as I did bend a pin once on a very stubborn spool pin.
~
Quote from: foakes on November 30, 2016, 06:01:28 PM
Im going to have to invest on an ultrasonic cleaner later down the line. An suggestions to clean without the US cleaner?
Toothbrushes, jelly jars, solvents, and simple green...
Honestly, if a reel repair person ever uses an ultrasonic cleaner -- they will wonder why they did not use one before.
Exceptions would be a basic service without disassembling the entire reel -- perfectly acceptable and a good technique when done properly.
However, I prefer a complete service/restoration whenever possible -- no comebacks for me that way.
It is surprising how little a decent US cleaner costs these days.
Here is a good one for $113.89 on ebay -- and there are others as well.
SS, 6 Liters, timer and heat --
Be careful with the solutions, particularly anodized or plastic parts -- experiment first.
Lets face it -- this is the cost of one small, average reel.
Best,
Fred
I bit the Bullet Fred and am ready to enjoy the simple pleasure of cleaning a reel the way you do.
I am sick and tired of freezing my butt off using spray cleaners and a tooth brush this time of year.
I have a nasty 114H that needs some Ultrasonic love.
The drive train is coated with nasty, crusty grease.
Going to try some simple green first and see how it pans out.
My Wife Definitely liked it, because she knows her Jewelry will be in there soon. ;)
Very nice Daron, that should make it a little easier on you.
Looks like a nice unit.
Sal
Very nice, Daron --
The difference between an amateur and a professional is not what they know -- it is the sharp looking tools on their work area!
;D ;D ;D
Let me know if you have any issues -- or would like some ideas or advice.
Best,
Fred
Daron I believe you will see that you will still need to remove the grease from heavily greased parts. You can use mineral spirits or other degreaser in the US cleaner also but she wont like that either.