I've got a 505HS jigmaster sitting around that I've been meaning to do something with. Now, I don't want to spend a ton of money - but I've been wanting to put together a setup to catch big stingrays around here in NC. Now, I need to check with a few old-timers around here and some of the tackle shops, to see if they're even around here. If they're really few and far between, I'll probably sell the Jigmaster to have money to upgrade my prized Shimano TR200G - which I caught my first shark on. That setup will forever live on, no matter how much money I spend :)
Anyways, back to the question - do you think that the 505HS can become a reel capable of handling heavy lines on a 30-50 pound rod with heavy drags of closer to 20 pounds at max? If not, do you think the TR200G can be upgraded to possibly handle some of the bigger rays better?
Unless you are using SS gears the answer is no. The Penn brass gears will strip anywhere between 12# & 15#. Some maybe slightly higher. It's a solid 30# mono reel with max 10# of drag.
I found a SS gear set (main and pinion gears) online for $55, plus the same store has the gear sleeve for $28. If I were to throw in a 5+1 stack from Bryan, think I could keep it $100 or under? I can do this if I need to, but would prefer to work with the TR200G since it was the reel I got my first shark on.
I'm going to open up the Shimano either tonight or tomorrow and see what the internals are made of. If the gears aren't SS, I'll see if I can replace them. If not, anyone have any ideas for uses for this reel? I don't want to just get rid of it, but I'm afraid I won't have a use for it.
The steel gears and gear sleeve will help a lot. However I would still be very leery of pushing the drag past about 10#. The teeth on 505 gears are tiny and even made of steel will shred. The frame will likely torque under high drag pressure. The 505 was a great reel. For light lines.
Fishing a Jigmaster at 20#...you might want a metal frame as well to be doing that. A Tiburon frame will run $70-$80 by itself; your $100 ceiling will not hold with all the other parts needed.
Your best bet for a "budget" all-metal reel would be a Daiwa 50H, 300H, or 350H: http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=18.0
All three of these reels share the same guts on the handle side so the tutorial is the same. I've had no problems getting 16+ lbs with a 3+1 CF drag stack which is in the 1/3 rule for a 50lb setup. When and if Bryan gets his 50H 5+1 kit done, then hitting 20+lbs is well within reach. Would recommend going with a delrin undergear washer from Smooth Drag instead of a CF one.
50H's would be a good find at $30-$40. Add $10 more for the 300H or 350H. Would also do the drill off the factory handle and replace with one of Alan's handles.
You stand a much better chance of coming in under $100 with this project.
Thanks Wai,
I always forget I have that 50H that Alan serviced. It has never been fished. I think the plan was albacore fishing here in NorCal. I guess I scared them off because you aren't hearing albacore stories from me.
I sent you a PM biggie.
Quote from: biggiesmalls on January 20, 2017, 12:56:26 PM...I'm going to open up the Shimano either tonight or tomorrow and see what the internals are made of. If the gears aren't SS, I'll see if I can replace them. If not, anyone have any ideas for uses for this reel? I don't want to just get rid of it, but I'm afraid I won't have a use for it.
It would make a good bottom fishing reel...
Randy - I responded to your PM, thank you very much for the kind offer.
Porthos - what type of fishing do you mean by bottom fishing? Bottom fishing as in grouper, or smaller fish like seabass? I don't have a boat, only friends with boats - which works out well, because I actually don't want to use this reel often, so that I can keep it for a long time. I still want it to be used though! I've got it on a stout 20-50 pound ugly stik (that was the rod I caught my first shark on) which will probably be used for my stingray rod - along with your recommendation of the Daiwa Sealine 50H.
I like the idea of putting my TR200G on a bit lighter rod and using it for a "general offshore" setup.
Of all the Jiggy variants, I really like my 405/6s best and I have a 505 ready to go 50# any time. We had a killer Bluefin bite for 5 months straight where a blind man could catch a 50# Bluefin 2 miles offshore. Guys in Kayaks were pulling in 70-80# Bluefin. 3/4 day Yellowtail with 10 each in bags. Old time fishing.
My favorite 505 is full of Newell stainless gears with a hex drag insert, 2x dogs, SS gear sleeve and sits on a Newell reel stand, bars and spools. Super nice bearings a great offset crank and power handle on an ancient, beautiful old 7' Cape Fear hexigonal custom mid weight at 40#. I call him Brutus. I built and set it up to be the most versatile fishing rod/reel I could make. It will do the job of 2 1/2 poles any time I choose. I can live bait, cast, jig and yo-yo. It went through several years of upgrades and re-builds.
I like fishing it with 65# Hollow braid with a loop to loop, wind on, fluorocarbon leader of 30-40-50 pound line. For over-nite trips, I have other Newell spools set up with solid braid and topshots of 30 & 40#. The 50# spool is all mono with a short fluroro leader. This is what I would consider my priority, target fishing for my age, health and disposable income. I can take the Brutus and a Pimped out Squidder for topwater and I am set for a day of fun and ring the dinner bell
It cost entirely too much to do but then again there's guys that pour 50 grand into a 56 Chevy hot rod. Just a different gear head kind of psychosis. A little less painful and always a work of passion because a nice Penn 113 Baja out of the box will do all that and more~H.
By the way 20# line is not recommended on Penn 500 versions because it is so small it can get caught up between the spool and plates. Been there, done that and no fun on a hot bite.
This is a 30# high speed reel for fast tuna that will last for years and years. Plenty of open charter outfits rent basic, Chinese, 500s to the newbs. Can't beat that for a recommendation.
The Newell bits and pieces are lighter than the Tiburons and sit a bit lower on the rod. Helpful to guide line with stubby fingers. Maybe the slightest bit less rigid than the Ttib and I have both set-ups on my 506s. There is a method to my madness~H
Quote from: biggiesmalls on January 21, 2017, 02:06:50 AM
Randy - I responded to your PM, thank you very much for the kind offer.
Porthos - what type of fishing do you mean by bottom fishing? Bottom fishing as in grouper, or smaller fish like seabass? I don't have a boat, only friends with boats - which works out well, because I actually don't want to use this reel often, so that I can keep it for a long time. I still want it to be used though! I've got it on a stout 20-50 pound ugly stik (that was the rod I caught my first shark on) which will probably be used for my stingray rod - along with your recommendation of the Daiwa Sealine 50H.
I like the idea of putting my TR200G on a bit lighter rod and using it for a "general offshore" setup.
Ah...that would be West Coast bottom fishing. 50-200', 25-30lb test, 4-16oz sinker, 1-2 hooks via dropper loops, drifting or anchored for sandbass, rockfish, lingcod, sculpin, California halibut, and whatever else that will bite...sometimes even Black Seabass.
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m153/Amadeus_Surf/IMG_2659.jpg)
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m153/Amadeus_Surf/DSCF0903_zpsln6wxq4n.jpg)
WOTHoyt, you've got me reconsidering the jigmaster! It looks like it's going to be at least $200 for the setup you've recommended though - definitely not going to happen right now :(
Gotcha about the bottom fishing. Over here in NC, we've got red and scamp groupers that can be had up to 10 pounds (plus red snapper), plus gags that can be brought up in the 20-30 pound range. Buddy who goes bottom fishing somewhat regularly says he pulls up a lot of smaller snapper, seabass, grunts, triggerfish, and porgies from 1/2 to 3 pounds or so - as well as hogfish up to 5 pounds. On the heavier tackle, he brings in stuff (offshore fishing, not bottom fishing) like amberjacks up to 50 pounds, bluefish up to 10 pounds, and barracuda, mahi, and king mackerel up to around 20 pounds.
I don't think I could bring in a 30 pound gag, 50 pound AJ, or 20 pound kingfish on the TR - but I bet the reel could handle the rest of that. And the 50H could probably bring up the rest of those, well except maybe the biggest AJs and kings might be difficult on a slow retrieve reel like the 50H. But that's what borrowed gear is for :)
Quote from: biggiesmalls on January 21, 2017, 02:54:25 PM
I don't think I could bring in a 30 pound gag, 50 pound AJ, or 20 pound kingfish on the TR
with patience you will. if i'm not mistaken the tr200g is rated at 6kgs=13lbs of drag. spool with 65lb braid and with a top shot of your preferred 30lb mono or fluoro and set drag at 10lbs and you'll have fun.
tight lines!
I've bottom fished on both coasts. The fish on the East Coast -- grouper, snapper, etc. -- just fight more than the rockfish we catch on the West Coast. Alaska halibut are a different matter, of course. I think your 505HS, even without upgrades, would be fine for West Coast rockfish. But I wouldn't want to use it -- even wth upgrades -- for East Coast grouper and snapper. Just my view...
Well, I'm official trading my Jigmaster for some rod parts to thorhammer. We spoke on the phone this morning, I'm stripping my 40-80 blank as I type this, and headed to the pawn shops to find a 6-12 ounce surf blank for my Ambassadeur and a 15-40 pound conventional blank for my TR200G. Either 50 or 65 pound braid going on both - and then 20 or 30 pound mono topshot on those reels.
Lol, our flounder aren't quite like Alaska's halibut. Ours just kind of flop around and fight kind of hard - yours seem to drag people around their boats and snap rods. But that's what we have our stingrays for ;)
So I'll kiss the 505 goodbye shortly. But when I get a little extra cash I can welcome the 50H to the family. I'll be fishing that on a 20-50 rod that will probably be cut down to 6', and 80-100 pound braid. Think I should run a topshot on this reel or no? It'll mostly be used in the kayak for big rays off of some of the closer islands, but the few times a year we go out for groupers it'll get used.
x2 what Mel said. It's not all about out-muscling the fish; it requires technique and you willing to let the drag do it's job.
The TR200G with 10lbs drag can do a lot. If properly loaded with 65lb braid you could get 400+ yds with a top shot of 30lb mono/fluoro. As long as you keep the level wind in sync, the sideways stress from the line on the worm gear will be minimized and prevent any premature wear (i.e., premature failure).
I pulled in a 50+lb BFT a few years ago on a 4.25:1 Penn 970
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m153/Amadeus_Surf/DSCF0962_zps12942716.jpg)
...that had 350+yds of 50lb braid, and only set at 9lbs drag:
https://www.bdoutdoors.com/forums/threads/tribute-7-19-7-21-1-5-day-took-home-1-fish.505359/
Have done 30-40lb YT with smaller, upgraded Penn 27 (http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=15627.0)
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m153/Amadeus_Surf/DSCF1245_zpsgeop0qmc.jpg)
...and Daiwa 30H (http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=13484.0)
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m153/Amadeus_Surf/DSCF1188_zpsl4u64wam.jpg)
...(both w/ 50lb braid, 40lb top shots, 12lbs drag) on the Alan Tani SOA charters. The 2016 one here was with the 30H:
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m153/Amadeus_Surf/IMG_1232_zps90gzlbgd.jpg)
Either the TR200G and certainly the 4.2:1 50H would have worked equally well if not better. Would I want to take on the "...30 pound gag, 50 pound AJ, or 20 pound kingfish on the TR..." 50H, or any of my "smaller" reels? Happily so with no hesitations.
Great pic on that last one Wai, I don't remember seeing it.
Quote from: Alto Mare on January 21, 2017, 05:23:10 PM
Great pic on that last one Wai, I don't remember seeing it.
And I think that is Alan in center of photo background at the stern...
On the Shimano TR200G: I see lots of them up here; they are quite popular as salmon trolling reels. I can't imagine they could really fish 10# of drag comfortably. I install carbon fiber drag washers so they're quite smooth, but more than a few come in with bad level winds. I suspect this is caused by frame torque at higher drag pressure. I do like the reel especially with carbon fiber drag washers, but really consider it a light line salmon reel.
Thanks everyone for the help. I think I'll load it up with some 65# braid, as with the Abu, and then a topshot of 20-30 pound mono. Any ideas on how to get braid for cheap? Need to buy some braid for the 50H as well, heavier stuff though - 80 or 100 pound test.
also use your rod, always have/maintain a bend on it keeping in mind not to high stick it. last but not least...
tight lines!
btw use the same outfit for a while until it "becomes part of you".
I think the original hundred dollar idea will make a solid reel. The 501 stand can take a lot of abuse, as proven on thousands of 349s. The cross bars are already stronger that posts to help the stand out. The stainless 5:1 gears in Jigmasters have turned in HUGE drag numbers with few issues that seem to be mostly worked out. I see no reason why you couldn't fish the reel with all the drag the 5 stack will give you and be fine. I'm thinking 20# of smooth drag for a 60# braid reel and the 501 has the capacity for that easy. Lots of really big fish have been caught on #60 braid and 20# of drag.
Just my $.02
Ron