I bought a 140 for cheaps and I did the 146 narrow conversion. I got a ss gear sleeve in the fine(505) thread pitch because I wanted a motive star on it I put a 5 plate stack in the steel main and put it back together.
Motive's drag star is not back cut like the Penn 10-60 star. What I have is a drag pre-loaded with about 6-8 pounds of drag with the star completely backed off. I messed around with all kinds of combinations of washers. Various thickness of under main washers. A stock thickness keyed washer on top of the 5 stack, with and without the wavy washer on top.
I either get a 5 or so pound pre-load with the star backed off or with a different combination of washers, the star bottoms on the side plate way before lock down. I can hold the spool and crank right through the drags.
I can make it work by reducing the height of the collar on the side plate. Is this advisable?
Should I just get the 10-60 SS gear sleeve and the Squidder star and call it good.
Does anybody know a fix on this? I am open to any suggestions.
Hoyt
Somebody here. I think maybe Dawn at Smooth drag, or Alan C, has optional length spacers you can pick up a shorter one to give you more room on the sleeve for the star to completely disengage when it's backed off.
Someone here will have a more clear direction and they should be along shortly. Hang in there.
Hoyt, if the gear sleeve is free spinning on the post, then the drags are being compressed by hitting the side plate or the spacer sleeve is hitting the star. so you will need to shorten the drag stack height. This can be done by using thinner metal washers or shorter spacer sleeve. the wavy washers can be left out if necessary.....someone else should chime in later, but that's where I would start.....Bill
Your on the right track Dave. He's correct Hoyt and should just be a matter of shaving a whisker off the thickness of sleeve bushing to get rid of the preload.
Please let us know how you make out.
................Lou
You can either shorten the spacer sleeve you have or purchase different lengths from SB&T.
Been there done all that.
I forgot to say I bought a couple of Pro Challenger's drag sleeves spacers to throw in the mix. He has 3 sizes..I bought 2 of them. Skinny, fat, long, short, at least 20 combinations and it's too much or not enough.
There is only so much room on the gear sleeve threads to do much with before running into the collar on the head plate. I could measure it for you but I only get 2.5 turns from the star touching the handle/arm to the star buried into side plate. How do you make that bigger?
As far as I can tell it is either shorten the collar on the side plate or go back to a 10-60 gear sleeve and a stock star with the back relief cut out.
Or maybe there's a genius here someplace....Sal....help
H~
No, the drag stack is not compressed into the cavity. It is free and clear and be spun with fingers easily with everything in there evenly torqued, bridge to side plate.
What do you have under your main?
Mike
On some reels the travel with the star is very little, this is one of the reason I suggested stretching the gear sleeve 1/8" on Jigmasters and Squidders, but unfortunately no one will listen.
You might need to go back to the 10-60 with the cut out on this one.
Presently a .008 Derlin washer. I have used others of different thicknesses. I have several Penn steel main gears and some of them have a recess cut into the back of it. They sit flat on the gear sleeve with a thin carbon washer under there, I tried every single one. With washer and without. The gears with the recess cut into them will rub the dog without a washer in there. They sit down over the ratchet and guess what's there....Mr, dog.
I have a POS head plate that I'm going to whittle on and see it my theory will pan out. I just need to see a little more gear sleeve threads.....me thinks.
I am a little overwhelmed with reels to repair for a small charter outfit so my stuff gets to wait. Whole bunch of Chinese 500s.
H~
Post script....Thanks for jumping in here Sal. That is preciously what's going on. I am still going to waste a side plate by milling down the collar about 3/32nds and polish to finish. If it flys, will share knowledge with all.
Sal, thanks for explaining. It all makes sense know and that's probably why they undercut the star in the first place. I think I must have lucked out cause all mine worked out OK, even with Adams star. Hoyt, if you want to keep Adam's star can you take it to a machine shop and just have them undercut it?
.....Lou
I would shorten the collar. Shortening the collar should not cause any problems. Just don't shorten it to much & hit the end of the bearing with the star when at full lockdown.
.... or lap the drag stack or use thinner carbon fiber. If you have 1mm drag washers it would be simple enough to switch to 0.5mm and pick up some space. It's nothing that can't be undone if you don't like it.
-steve
Quote from: WOTHoyt on January 26, 2017, 10:43:06 PM
Been there done all that.
I forgot to say I bought a couple of Pro Challenger's drag sleeves spacers to throw in the mix. He has 3 sizes..I bought 2 of them. Skinny, fat, long, short, at least 20 combinations and it's too much or not enough.
There is only so much room on the gear sleeve threads to do much with before running into the collar on the head plate. I could measure it for you but I only get 2.5 turns from the star touching the handle/arm to the star buried into side plate. How do you make that bigger?
As far as I can tell it is either shorten the collar on the side plate or go back to a 10-60 gear sleeve and a stock star with the back relief cut out.
Or maybe there's a genius here someplace....Sal....help
H~t
What your running into is the thickness of motives star over the stock piece. In order to seat the handle on the bridge sleeve you are pre loading the drags. Shave the spacer and you only have 2-3 threads. I've put 6 of these stars on this month (love them) and two reels had this problem. One it was the tiburon handle. The stock handle was fine, but tibs arm has a cut out on the bottom. I actually tried sanding the star thinner by hand that was a loser. Finally mounted One of Motives Sal's handles and perfect. The other one was a squidder and same problem. Pro gear handle wouldn't give me enough room. I didn't want to alter the plate so tried another Sal's handle, perfect. Stock arm the same, perfect.
Swapping handles....I'll try anything. I don't understand it but I'll try it.
I'll have to agree with Rudy...shortening that collar should be an easy quick fix. I've ran into this same problem when putting larger #10-66 stars on reels that had the undercut Squidder stars. 8)
Good stuff here! I always wanted to know how to get more drag control on my squidders. Who makes the thinnest handle? Penn?
I'm not really getting what you guys are saying about using a different handle.
No matter what thickness is, the handle will always sit on the shoulder of the sleeve and would have anything to do with star travel.
Thinning the star makes sense though.
Just do as Rudy has mentiond and use a shorter spacer, or make your own as I do, by sanding a little off. If you need to sand until it sits flush with the bushing on the plate, use a 10-60 star that is releaved at the bottom.
Sal
Sal, what I was talking about is to shorten the collar that is part of the plate first by about 1/16" or so & then shorten the bushing a bit for more adjustment. After that you still might need a 10-49 star which is undercut. Rudy
This is another interesting situation with trying to make different parts work together-- not alway easy. I just found an old 155 in my 'reel bin' which I had no idea I had ??? The reel was stiff and seemed to have drag even with the star backed off. I went through it as usual, and noticed I had replaced the old drag washers with HT-100s, but kept the old brass washers. I swapped out the star/handle for a larger star and handle from a 309. I noticed the 309 star had an undercut on it, the first time I've noticed that. As it turned out the drag works perfectly now with the stock spacer and new star-- I guess in this case the new drag washers (including one under the gear) made the stack just a hair taller.
Quote from: RowdyW on February 02, 2017, 09:04:03 PM
Sal, what I was talking about is to shorten the collar that is part of the plate first by about 1/16" or so & then shorten the bushing a bit for more adjustment. After that you still might need a 10-49 star which is undercut. Rudy
Personally, I'm not crazy about messing with the collar on any plates and don't believe there is a need to. I usually chuck up the spacer sleeve (part number 9-60) on my drill press and lower it on some sandpaper... very fast and affective.
Of course if you don't have a drill press there is other ways, it just takes a little longer.
If you go to Scotts, they have (7) sizes available, but you might still need to sand yours down.
https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Parts/9-60.aspx (https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Parts/9-60.aspx)
On my personal reels, most of my spacers are sanded, I like to get them just the way I like it.
Sal
"Edited as per Moderators to correct Scott's Bait & Tackle over to their new store name Mystic Reel Parts / www.mysticparts.com"
In Hoyt's case here...shortening the collar on the plate is the only way to make his Motive Fab drag star work...short of spending money back cutting that star. Shortening the spacer is only going to worsen his problem, the star would then be even closer to hitting the collar! Just sand, file, or grind a little off that collar...then buff it up shiny...nobody's gonna see where you sanded off the chrome edge...its a cinch. 8)