I have several different style bait caster reels. I use Sufix 832 on all of them. On my low profile Revos; I use #40 Ghost braid. On my 7000 CS's I use low-vis green #65. On my 10000's, I use low-vis #80.
It seems like I get different options - even arguments when I try to Google it for a sensible answer. Surely; someone here has some formula that makes sense. Obviously; I've tried different methods, but seem to always either wind up with line that's too dug in the spool, or bird nest. Tried spooling it wet and dry. Doesn't seem to be a common sense method. Counting on the experience amassed here.
A little help?
Thanks!
Tension when spooling braid is the most important thing. Dependent upon the drag of your reel - for a baitcaster try and apply 7-10lb of drag when you spool. Get as close to 10lb as you can - it all depends on the reel and your spooling method. I've never found wet or dry makes a much difference, just my 2c.
my 2 cents worth some drag is good more is better too much is just right. If you squeeze it on the spool and it gives its not enough should be hard when squeezed.
8-10# would be best or the max drag of the reel. The line should never dig in if I fish with less than maximum of the drag of the reel.
The problem is there are lots of opinions, but most folks don't always have the time to explain their reasoning.
My belief is that high tension spooling is not a great idea. The high tension cannot be maintained when the reel is in use. So unless you are going back to the line winding machine after a big fish takes a a bunch of line, it is better to select a reel/ line diameter/crossover pattern that works with the tension that the line will be packed when the reel is used.
I could be wrong here (esp for big game reels, I have no experience with gel spun on big game reels). I am curious if there are good arguments against my practice.
The reasoning:
The amount of tension you need is going to vary based on the diameter of the line, the amount of drag you are using, and the amount of crossover applied when winding. Anything extra is unnecessary.
Gel spun polyethylene (spectra/dynema) braid has very little stretch. It will actually contract with heat, according to one manufacturer. The goal is to pack the line with enough tension and crossover to prevent the line from digging in and binding for the drag settings you will use. With a levelwind or spinning reel the amount of crossover is built in, but on a regular conventional reel, you have a choice.
One thing that folks sometimes forget is that however tight it is wound on in the shop, it will be different in the field.
This is what I do for non-big game reels: I pack the reel around the max expected drag setting until I reach about 8 lbs of tension. I never load a reel over 8 lbs of tension even though I will use a drag setting over that. If I'm going on an important trip, or feel unsure, I will try a test ( run off a hundred yards at full drag, rewind by hand, test again. To be honest, I haven't done this test in years. I do try to be a bit aggressive in my crossover with manual conventional reels. If I get binding, I change my crossover pattern, increase my line diameter, or try a different reel.
The theory is that if you need more tension than your drag setting to prevent binding, you will be screwed after the first time you drop a fish with a bunch of line out. Even without dropping any fish, you will always be winding in at something well below the tension of the drag setting.
It is my experience that if you do get binding, it will happen lower in the spool after using the reel for awhile. This happens to me with fly reel backing which is hard to pack well. After dropping a fish with a lot of line out, winding in then landing more fish, I end up with a tight pack over a loose pack, and get some binding. Not fun, but it usually works out. This happens more on the reels with 50 lb backing, not so much with 65 lbs.
That's my contrarian view for what it is worth. The best counter to my argument that I could think of is that getting deep into a spool is a rare and special occurrence, so you want to optimize for that one big fish. For me - I optimize to hook lots of jumbos on every trip :)
Regarding packing wet: Water is a very effect solvent for salt and mixing saltwater with freshwater will eventually equalize in salinity. I would think wet line might wick more salt deeper into the spool. That is if you are fishing saltwater.
-J
Quote from: jurelometer on October 19, 2017, 10:25:38 PM
The problem is there are lots of opinions, but most folks don't always have the time to explain their reasoning.
My belief is that high tension spooling is not a great idea. The high tension cannot be maintained when the reel is in use. So unless you are going back to the line winding machine after a big fish takes a a bunch of line, it is better to select a reel/ line diameter/crossover pattern that works with the tension that the line will be packed when the reel is used.
I could be wrong here (esp for big game reels, I have no experience with gel spun on big game reels). I am curious if there are good arguments against my practice.
The reasoning:
The amount of tension you need is going to vary based on the diameter of the line, the amount of drag you are using, and the amount of crossover applied when winding. Anything extra is unnecessary.
Gel spun polyethylene (spectra/dynema) braid has very little stretch. It will actually contract with heat, according to one manufacturer. The goal is to pack the line with enough tension and crossover to prevent the line from digging in and binding for the drag settings you will use. With a levelwind or spinning reel the amount of crossover is built in, but on a regular conventional reel, you have a choice.
One thing that folks sometimes forget is that however tight it is wound on in the shop, it will be different in the field.
This is what I do for non-big game reels: I pack the reel around the max expected drag setting until I reach about 8 lbs of tension. I never load a reel over 8 lbs of tension even though I will use a drag setting over that. If I'm going on an important trip, or feel unsure, I will try a test ( run off a hundred yards at full drag, rewind by hand, test again. To be honest, I haven't done this test in years. I do try to be a bit aggressive in my crossover with manual conventional reels. If I get binding, I change my crossover pattern, increase my line diameter, or try a different reel.
The theory is that if you need more tension than your drag setting to prevent binding, you will be screwed after the first time you drop a fish with a bunch of line out. Even without dropping any fish, you will always be winding in at something well below the tension of the drag setting.
It is my experience that if you do get binding, it will happen lower in the spool after using the reel for awhile. This happens to me with fly reel backing which is hard to pack well. After dropping a fish with a lot of line out, winding in then landing more fish, I end up with a tight pack over a loose pack, and get some binding. Not fun, but it usually works out. This happens more on the reels with 50 lb backing, not so much with 65 lbs.
That's my contrarian view for what it is worth. The best counter to my argument that I could think of is that getting deep into a spool is a rare and special occurrence, so you want to optimize for that one big fish. For me - I optimize to hook lots of jumbos on every trip :)
Regarding packing wet: Water is a very effect solvent for salt and mixing saltwater with freshwater will eventually equalize in salinity. I would think wet line might wick more salt deeper into the spool. That is if you are fishing saltwater.
-J
This is actually more comprehensive than any explanation I've read to date. By and large; it passes the sanity test, too. I just wound 3 10000 reels this week with #80 Sufix braid with 1200 yards of line. I have callouses on my fingers like a guitar player and tendonitis. I backed the spools with electrical tape for a number of reasons. I still don't think I had the consistent oomph to maintain a consistent drag on the line while winding. Sounds like I'm going to have to find a big place to unwind the better part of each one and re-do it. None of the spools have any give to them, but they're sure not wound like a clock spring either. A couple of circles would unwind when I was done. I taped them down with electrical tape to maintain (hopefully) tension.
Thank you very much!
here's what i do. i figure out what the drag will be set at, then i set the tension for the braid to somewhere between 50 and 75% of the drag range. as an example, an avet sx will hold 300 to 350 yards of 65 pound solid braid. if you use a 30 pound topshot, then you would typically set the drag to 30% of that topshot, which would be 9 pounds, then take 50-75% of that 9 pounds, say 5-7 pounds, and that is the tension that i would use for the braid.
alternatively, let's look at a penn 50 vsx or makaira 50 two speed. you might load it with 600 yards of 130 pound braid and a 130 pound topshot. your drag setting might be 45 pounds. that means the braid needs to be loaded with up to 30 pounds of pressure. my winder can do that. very few others can.
Round 2008 I did some experimenting with braid and made some notes for myself. I repeated the experiment during November 2013 and again decided that braid does not work for my type of fishing.
Despite that I have now been fishing solely with braid for about 3 years, using baitcasters and have had a fair measure of success.
I dont think that tension on the spool has an impact on this issue and maybe this information is not relevant to this discussion.
FIRELINE TEST RESULTS
This product has recently become available in South Africa. I heard and read some very good comments about it, and decided to see if it could be used for my type of fishing.
FISHING STYLE
I spin fish for Yellowtail, often make 100's of casts in a day and often fish in strong side wind
OBJECTIVE
The objective of this exercise was to test the product through actual use;
1. Determine the suitability for the type of fishing I do, and
2. The economic viability of using this product.
1. SUITABILITY
• Casting ability
• Ease of use
• Durability
• Abrasive qualities
• Knot strength
2. ECONOMIC
• Durability
• Loss of fish through line failure
• Other non quantifiable benefits
• Confidence
• Ease of use
3. RESULTS & OBSERVATIONS
• It burns off from thumb friction when casting
• Becomes woolly after use and sticks to reel more and more
• Can lose rod & reel from fish take or bad cast
• Too limp,
• gets stuck in guides when casting
• Gets pulled in to "wrong side of reel"
• Very bad in side wind
• gets worse as braid gets "wooly" and the stiffening compound wears away
• Wind resistance is more then mono when "woolly"
• Nightmare to clear tangle
• Abrasive qualities not good
• Not durable – expensive
• Cuts your fingers like ...$h@#! Need to use a level winder or coffee!
23 November 2013
I repeated this test of about 5 years ago, with similar results and conclusion.
In an attempt to find a better casting solution for my long rod I again attempted to use braid on a conventional reel. I was also told the line "technology" is now far superior.
For this test I used Jerry Brown 80 lb hollow core.
CONCLUSION
Not much has changed at al and the only benefit to continue with it is its strength, and the fact that it does not get damaged as easily as mono and perhaps less wind resistance!!
• New braid cast far better then old...... it has some more body because of whatever they put on it, but wears away after a few 100 casts.
• the reel makes a significant difference. A firm cast control (mags) is essential and a level winder will also make it much easier.
• I was able to cast well with it when doing this deliberately and carefully, and after laying line nicely on reel, but as soon as I had to retrieve fast, or when concentrating more on fish then on laying the line or hard or whatever...... trouble!
• As the braid got limper, it became much more difficult to use.
This is the main issue:-
On a conventional reel the spool spins faster and peels off line faster then the distance required by the casting weight, leaving some loose coils of line on, or in front of the spool. With mono this is good but has to be controlled to avoid backlash.
Braid is too limp, and tends to "stick" to the reel. If you hold 20cm of mono by the end it bends in a slow curve, or its fairly "stiff" whereas if you do the same with braid it hangs nearly straight down, it is completely limp, unless its still new. So with mono the reel will "push" the line away from the reel providing a much greater margin of error. Braid will not get pushed away and adhere to the spool and quickly get pulled to the "wrong side"...... Bang!
The way to avoid it is to keep tension on the line when casting braid, cast harder and more directly towards the target, use tight cast control settings, use a heavier casting weight, don't cast high and rather not in to the wind and cast using the rods "sweet spot"
By doing so you lose any possible casting benefit from the thinner line.
So, don't use braid for spin fishing on conventional reels.
The manufactures need to stop bragging about how "limp" it is, give it some Viagra or stiffer threads and it will work.
Per Jerry Brown:
http://www.bhptackle.com/pages.php?pageid=36
Quote from: alantani on October 20, 2017, 03:46:01 AM
here's what i do. i figure out what the drag will be set at, then i set the tension for the braid to somewhere between 50 and 75% of the drag range. as an example, an avet sx will hold 300 to 350 yards of 65 pound solid braid. if you use a 30 pound topshot, then you would typically set the drag to 30% of that topshot, which would be 9 pounds, then take 50-75% of that 9 pounds, say 5-7 pounds, and that is the tension that i would use for the braid.
alternatively, let's look at a penn 50 vsx or makaira 50 two speed. you might load it with 600 yards of 130 pound braid and a 130 pound topshot. your drag setting might be 45 pounds. that means the braid needs to be loaded with up to 30 pounds of pressure. my winder can do that. very few others can.
Hi Alan,
This makes sense to me for long range fishing. Basically you are packing the line with roughly the same tension that will be used in the field under load. As long as you play the fish hard, you will be using around the orginal tension on anything big enough to take a bunch of line. What do you recommend in the case where you drop a fish with a bunch of line out and have to wind in without much tension?
On small boat deep drop fishing, you can drift pretty fast and often end up in situations with a lot of line out and little tension. Even tangles or breakoffs can cause this. This is why I think it is important for this type of fishing to ensure that your setup does not rely on high tension winding to avoid the line digging in and binding too severely.
Re Cor's comments on casting spectra. On my last trip, I used one of those fancy new mag cast reels (no levelwind) for the first time to toss big poppers. I could not make it overrun at first, pure bliss. About 100 casts later, nothing but bird's nest and potty mouth. I was using 50 lb braid. Folks that do the same kind of fishing say a levelwind will work better. Everything that Cor described about casting GSP is what I experienced.
Re the Jerry Brown paper referenced by day0ne: I am a bit suspicious about some of the claims. It doesn't have to be Spectra. Spectra is just a trade name. The quality of materials and manufacturing process is what makes the difference. A lower grade spectra is unlikely to be better than a higher grade dyneema and vice versa. Regarding heat, GSP is supposed to be annealed at around 130C, so I wonder if lesser amounts of heat on a thermoplastic would be a problem.
One thing that was not mentioned was the effect of creep. If kept under high tension for long periods of time, GSP fibers will creep and lose some strength. Even though GSP does not stretch much, friction from the adjacent wraps will help hold the tension, so I think there is at least a theoretical argument that spooling under high tension has some downsides. I just got a 1000 yard spool of 50 lb Diawa j-braid. Even though they know it will be used to spool fishing reels, it is not packed very tight. Hmmm...
Quote from: Jim Dempsey on October 20, 2017, 03:30:43 AM
Quote from: jurelometer on October 19, 2017, 10:25:38 PM
The problem is there are lots of opinions, but most folks don't always have the time to explain their reasoning.
My belief is that high tension spooling is not a great idea. The high tension cannot be maintained when the reel is in use. So unless you are going back to the line winding machine after a big fish takes a a bunch of line, it is better to select a reel/ line diameter/crossover pattern that works with the tension that the line will be packed when the reel is used.
I could be wrong here (esp for big game reels, I have no experience with gel spun on big game reels). I am curious if there are good arguments against my practice.
The reasoning:
The amount of tension you need is going to vary based on the diameter of the line, the amount of drag you are using, and the amount of crossover applied when winding. Anything extra is unnecessary.
Gel spun polyethylene (spectra/dynema) braid has very little stretch. It will actually contract with heat, according to one manufacturer. The goal is to pack the line with enough tension and crossover to prevent the line from digging in and binding for the drag settings you will use. With a levelwind or spinning reel the amount of crossover is built in, but on a regular conventional reel, you have a choice.
One thing that folks sometimes forget is that however tight it is wound on in the shop, it will be different in the field.
This is what I do for non-big game reels: I pack the reel around the max expected drag setting until I reach about 8 lbs of tension. I never load a reel over 8 lbs of tension even though I will use a drag setting over that. If I'm going on an important trip, or feel unsure, I will try a test ( run off a hundred yards at full drag, rewind by hand, test again. To be honest, I haven't done this test in years. I do try to be a bit aggressive in my crossover with manual conventional reels. If I get binding, I change my crossover pattern, increase my line diameter, or try a different reel.
The theory is that if you need more tension than your drag setting to prevent binding, you will be screwed after the first time you drop a fish with a bunch of line out. Even without dropping any fish, you will always be winding in at something well below the tension of the drag setting.
It is my experience that if you do get binding, it will happen lower in the spool after using the reel for awhile. This happens to me with fly reel backing which is hard to pack well. After dropping a fish with a lot of line out, winding in then landing more fish, I end up with a tight pack over a loose pack, and get some binding. Not fun, but it usually works out. This happens more on the reels with 50 lb backing, not so much with 65 lbs.
That's my contrarian view for what it is worth. The best counter to my argument that I could think of is that getting deep into a spool is a rare and special occurrence, so you want to optimize for that one big fish. For me - I optimize to hook lots of jumbos on every trip :)
Regarding packing wet: Water is a very effect solvent for salt and mixing saltwater with freshwater will eventually equalize in salinity. I would think wet line might wick more salt deeper into the spool. That is if you are fishing saltwater.
-J
This is actually more comprehensive than any explanation I've read to date. By and large; it passes the sanity test, too. I just wound 3 10000 reels this week with #80 Sufix braid with 1200 yards of line. I have callouses on my fingers like a guitar player and tendonitis. I backed the spools with electrical tape for a number of reasons. I still don't think I had the consistent oomph to maintain a consistent drag on the line while winding. Sounds like I'm going to have to find a big place to unwind the better part of each one and re-do it. None of the spools have any give to them, but they're sure not wound like a clock spring either. A couple of circles would unwind when I was done. I taped them down with electrical tape to maintain (hopefully) tension.
Thank you very much!
Hi Jim,
Glad to help, always wonder if these long winded replies are more helpful than annoying.
The last few winds are always going to flop around. Before resorting to refilling the reel why not set the drag with a scale, tie the line to a post and pull off a bunch of line and see if you get any bad binding? If you are wearing out your fingers to load a levelwind, you probably have plenty of tension already.
-J
A while ago I built a line spooler with an adjustable drag. I experimented with various drag settings - partly to test the braid, partly to test the line spooler. The findings were quite simple below 5lb drag the amount of braid you can fit on a given spool is reduced. Above 10lb of drag the amount of fitted line doesn't increase.
In fact I could not measure any difference (in line capacity) between 8 and 10lb drag. I experimented up to 20lb of drag with the same result. My conlusion was that by applying 8-10lb drag the minimal stretch of braid is removed. Therefore any thing more than 10lb of drag is not necessary. My experiments were done on 50 and 65lb Fireline braid. A different braid may behave slightly differently - but if it's PE (dyneema, spectre etc) it won't be that different imho.
Jerry Brown recomends 10# and is what he spools the line he sells. Ten pounds works for me too.
Perhaps something else I should have mentioned.
Before spooling the reel I re-spool the supplied braid (at 10lb drag) onto a heavy duty industrial spool that I know can take the tension and is a custom fit on my line spooler. This also ensures there are no under wraps.
I suppose all this applies more to tuna fisherman?
I have only loaded reels with one of the cheap plastic spoolers that clamp to the rod. With tension between rags or whatever was handy to add a little tension. I have never had an issue. I guess ignorance is bliss. :P
Jurelometer's statement of 'ending up with loose windings over tight windings,' after a fish has run off a bunch of line, echo what my thoughts always were.
So, relative to jurelometer's first post, which'ed be more important for spoolin braid: drag tension or line cross-over? One reason I ask is, castin or even trollin, I always got that 50 - 100yds. a line out I'm fishin that isn't gonna get reeled in with 5 - 10lbs. a drag unless I'm bringin in a good size fish,and the best I can do is apply a small amount a tension while tryin to do the cross-over thing.
The other reason is, when I'm spoolin new braid onto a reel from the start, it's difficult to focus on both, 'cause I'm doin it by hand(no line winder).
I do use a Penn HLW 6/0 for drag tension. Seems like the cross-over winding technique would be a good way to keep the line from diggin in ta the spool.
Gfish
Loose braid over tight braid is a fact of fishing life, it is going to happen at some time. But when you get tight braid over loose braid (ie poorly spooled) - as in playing a decent fish - you will get dig in problems - been there done that.
After each fishing trip I re-spool my line to make sure everything is good and tight. Varying the crossover pattern has never been a solution for me.
At the end of the day whatever works for you.
what you are trying to avoid is a big fish that takes the spool down to half height, meaning 2/3rds of your line is out, then having the line dig into the side of the spool, lock up and then have the line break off. it is at that 2/3rds mark that guys get into trouble. your drag pressure has doubled because your spool height has been cut in half. anything less than that and you should be ok. hardly anyone goes out for tuna in southern california with a reel that is "properly" rigged. they usually get by ok because the fish are not that big. 40 pound fish on 40# mono will not get you into trouble. hook into a 120 pounder on a light rig and it's another matter. that's what happened to tony's friend and he broke the fish off in exactly this way.
so this does happen, but only when you are chasing big fish that will take a blistering 300 yard run. stripers? no way. salmon or rockfish? nope? even grouper! they dive for structure and just break you off. sailfish? not sure, never caught one, but maybe. mostly, we are talking about tuna, and particularly when you hook up on line that is too light and a fish that is too big.
so what to do after a trip, particularly if you know the line is loose? you have to repack it. if you don't you will probably be ok, but you are taking a chance!
I keep hearing about line spoolers, but have always used a large screwdriver in a vise. Checking on the price of some of what I would imagine are spoolers with adjustable tension; I'm not ready to drop a couple of hundred bucks for something I'll seldom use. My son and I use the big guns 2-3 times a year for pier fishing in Corpus. It looks like it's going to be a matter of trial and error. All seem like valid points; but it seems like there's no "one size fits all".
Thanks for all of the replies and opinions. As with most fishing techniques; what works for one, doesn't necessarily work for another. Perhaps I'm missing something. Remember; I'm still pretty new at all of this.
Thanks, guys.
i think it's only a problem if you are chasing fish that weigh in at double the weight of your braid.
Spectra/ braided line has been fished for around 15 years here on the west coast of the USA and is very common. I personally have been using it for 12 or more years on my reels and I worked for a couple of years in a tackle shop that gave away free braid spooling on it's moderate to high end reels. I have spooled 100's if not over a thousand reels with braided line since I started using it.
When at the tackle shop if there was any issue with the way we spooled a reel or made our connections you can bet we would hear about it.
Braided lines will only compact so much so adding a ton of drag when spooling will only give you or the machine doing the spooling a work out and not compact the line any more onto the spool of the reel.
For smaller reels using 25 lb topshots or less, around 5-7 lbs is all that's needed. For reels using topshots of 60 lbs or less 8-10 lbs of drag when spooling and big game reels using 100-200 braid around 10-12 lbs of drag is all that's needed IMO.
Some have done testing here, we sure did at the shop and we found the same thing. When the braided line reaches it's maximum compression no matter how much more drag you use when spooling it will not help in either getting more yards of braid onto the spool or the compactness of the braid (I.E. digging into it's self).
As far as the braid getting loose when fishing sure that will happen to the top part that is either cast or or the line let out when fishing, but normally this is only a fraction of the line on a reel and as long as the under layers of braid are compact the line should not dig into it's self. Now if you catch a fish the upper layers will compact again when reeling the fish. If anyone has seen braid dig into it's self and get jammed they will notice this only happens the braid really digs deep onto the spool and does and occur with the upper part of the line being loose from regular fishing.
This is what it looks like when you don't spool them tight enough. The backing will come back looking wavy. With mono, you don't need it nearly as tight. If the reel ends up locking up because of knotting, you can have some serious problems. For example, a rod snap in half. If you do stand up and your locked into a harness.........
I used to fret about this after reading the horror stories. But, I'm fishing very light tackle and less than five pounds of drag or only three pounds of thumb pressure. No more than 120 yards of line. Over time I've become lax and just hold the line between two fingers when loading. Never had the line slip on the spool or dig in enough to create a problem. What is aggravating is after catching a fish the top 60 to 100 yards is packed tighter than normal. The next three or five casts are going to come up short because line has dug in and grabs a little as it comes off the spool. Once that top forty or so yards has been retrieved without a lot of tension it gets back to normal.
The thing that really surprised me in the Jerry Brown information that dayOne posted is that Jerry Brown says dramatic cross winding is detrimental because it leaves voids on the spool. I though that with more dramatic cross winding the line is less likely to dig in. He says no.
-steve
This has been an interesting topic for me, as I, too, have always "loaded" my reels by tensioning the line through a "gloved hand" . As yet, anything caught on a conventional reel hasn't been big enough to cause ANY problems....but, hopefully, this winter , that may change ! Although, considering the water depth we fish......not that much line is involved, so, I suppose as long as the "bottom wraps" are tight, that's all that really matters ?!
I see loose braid all the time in the shop. Some of it was put on by a local tackle shop. I use 10lbs on the larger reels. You surely wouldn't spool a small reel with 10lbs. 10lbs is a lot of drag.
I have the Triangle HD140 as mentioned. I set the drag with a scale before and during spooling. The Daiwa J Braid does dig in coming from the spool at this setting. At least it did with me on 2 service spools of 65lb.
Jerry Brown. No problem
Keith - that is the reason I re-spool shop bought braid so I know how tight it is. JB braid seems to be ok, from what I've read - never tried it (can't afford it this side of the pond :() I don't use <30lb braid so have no input to spooling it. When it comes to light line I only use mono (well co-polymer really).
It was not uncommon on bulk spools from the manufacture to see the line dig in to it's self when spooling up reels. The bulk spools are not wound at tight as the drag we used for the reels. Rarely did we have the bulk spools get jammed because of this but it did happen once in a while and from different manufactures, even JB. All of the manufactures were very good at replacing the loose and jammed bulk spools with new ones. Like I said jamming a bulk spool didn't happen often but I have seen them dig into it's self somewhat and was pretty common, so personally I would not worry about that.
I've decided to build my own spooler. I have a rough idea how to build it, but; essentially on the same principal as a drag system on a reel. Not terribly scientific; but I'm going to use a set of drag washers and metal washers with a spring (or cupped washers) and a wing nut. I can set the amount of drag using my digital scale. From what I've read in this post; I think I can get pretty close to the ballpark - and certainly more consistent - than the old finger pressure method. I'll make a few adapters for the mounting bolt depending on the factory spool. From the varying opinions I've read here and every where else; there doesn't seem to be an exact science, so I'll just experiment with what works best for my applications.
Heading out of town next week, so it'll be a while, but I'll post some photos when I'm done.
When playing with your spooler drag setup I have 2 suggestions:
1 - Imitate a multi disc setup ala Senator - approx 5 cf and 5 ss discs keyed to a shaft etc - I tried it but found that it was a pita to engineer.
2 - Imitate a leverdrag reel - a much easier engineering solution imho - this was the option I chose for my spooler. And it's still working fine 3 yrs down the line :)
Regarding J-braid and the factory spool not being packed under tension: Not picking on J-braid. I like the stuff. My point was that the manufacturers are not packing the line tight on purpose, even though there will be some grief from customers filling reels. I am speculating that they are concerned about creep - the line permanently stretching and deforming when kept under load for extend periods of time. Creep is a known issue with gel spun polyethylene fibers, and it will weaken the line.
When you fill the reel with GSP under heavy tension, you may not be stretching the line much more, but the extra load on the line could still be present due to the static friction on the adjacent wraps. In theory, this should weaken the line over time. Is it a big enough deal to cause a problem? I don't know.
In terms of how much crossover/crosswind is too much: What causes binding is loose wraps and a gap wider than the line diameter. When taking line under heavy drag, the line gets pulled into the gap, and then tightens the loose wraps now above it forming a knot of sorts. If you get too aggressive on the crossover, you end up with a wrap that whose length is much greater than the current spool circumference. If the load is relieved and this wrap can shift a little, it becomes a loose wrap. I think this is what the JB paper was getting at. But stacking all the wraps parallel to each other introduces the potential for deep gaps. Loose wraps= bad, gaps = bad. The JB paper states that you will still be getting enough crossover by attempting to lay each wrap parallel. I know that by using around a 3-4x line diameter spacing (on CASTING reels without levelwind) for the line involved in the cast, I get longer casts with fewer bird nests than if I try to lay the wraps parallel. This includes my yellowtail reels, where the drag is set as high as the reel will allow. I have't had any serious binding problems.
Lots of crossover/crosswind will decrease the amount of line you can fit in a spool.
Regarding filling reels without line winders: I can easily get up to about 8 lbs tension by having a extra pair of hands press some thick flaps of leather against the filler spool. Makes it a two-person job.
Quote from: Tiddlerbasher on October 21, 2017, 05:37:02 PM
When playing with your spooler drag setup I have 2 suggestions:
1 - Imitate a multi disc setup ala Senator - approx 5 cf and 5 ss discs keyed to a shaft etc - I tried it but found that it was a pita to engineer.
2 - Imitate a leverdrag reel - a much easier engineering solution imho - this was the option I chose for my spooler. And it's still working fine 3 yrs down the line :)
Very much worth noting. Thanks!