Well, we have been talking a lot about the tension of the fishing like as it is wound on your fishing reel. After checking with some of the line mfg. tech experts, I confirmed what Alan and I have been talking about for some time. That is fishing line should be spooled at 30-40% of the fishing line strength. This will pack the line tight and solid so that the line should not dig it at all. How many shops actually do this? When you are getting your reels spooled, do you ever see the tech check the tension of the fishing line before or while they are spooling? And, when spooling higher test fishing line, like 60# or more, I'm sure you have seen what I have. The tech will put on a glove or two and put hand pressure on the spool. The tension is inconsistent. This leads me to build our own line winder.
First, the motor. I searched and searched for a motor that had good rotational torque. Whew, I found one. 60# of torque. A Dayton motor, 115 V, 60 Hz, 1/16 HP, 135 RPM at the geared shaft. Then, when the motor arrive...WOW, it's about 4" longer thant I had expected. Okay, design change up. Need more real estate.
Next the design to follow. Stay tuned.
Now this I will follow with great interest, had no idea that spooling should be done at those tensions - always nice to be able to add some useful trivia to the loads of redundant stuff harboring in my brain... ;D
Bryan,
I hope your referring to spectra only. If you do this with mono you'll be replacing a lot of spools ???
I like the idea of filling spectra at real life tensions. I do have a concern that many reels may not survive repeated high tension line filling.
Fortunately the newer designs are using much stronger hardened stainless helical gears that are much thicker than most of the older design reels.
Reels may be limited by maximum 'safe' drag. Where 'safe' is the maximum drag that the gear train can crank continuously against without damage. When not cranking lever drags the 'dogs' take the majority of the load. On star drags the gears take the load. On most reels it is near impossible to turn the handle at strike let alone full drag (except those real low speed 2 speeds). I have seen my share of gears (both brass and stainless) where the gear teeth are rolled during cranking against high drags.
The torque at the reel handle will = (desired tension x moment arm of spool x gear ratio) / gear efficiency
This number can be quite high especially for high speed reels.
Jim N.
Yes, I'm looking at creating a spectra line winder. I want the capability of 60# if possible. In actuality, it planning for spooling 35# range as most people will not set their at such high levels of drag or they will get dragged off the boat...unless they are rod-holder fisherman. Will chat more on our way up to San Rafael for the reel clinic.
Thank you for your observations, Jim. I especially agree with the 'maximum safe drag' concept.
I have been using a 113HL as a line tensioning device for loading Spectra on my reels. I transferred the line from the supply spool to the intended reel under gloved finger tension, then transferred it to the 113HL under about 6-8 measured pounds of drag, then put it back on to the intended reel under 14-16 measured pounds of drag.
I tried the last transfer under 20-22 pounds which is my max drag on the 113HL, but it was way too hard to pull the line off and I was concerned about trashing the gears. When I disassembled the reel to install a s/s gear sleeve, I noticed marks on the brass gear sleeve where the s/s metal drag washers had left their imprints. Fortunately, no visible damage to the gears. :)
The Spectra is on nice and hard but it's time to rethink the loading method. :-\
Rob
WOW....here I expected a finished set of blueprints and .000 tolerances..... ;).....I'm in the same boat here....spooling a 113hn with 80# JB and 50# Momoi diamond....no more foolin around....the search continues
I picked up a used line spooling machine a few months back that was made for portability, simplicity, low cost, and was designed primarily for use on long range trips. It handles large reels, and large spools and the price was right. Unfortunately it does not have any means of stripping line, counting yds of line spooled, or spool breaks (for adjusting the tension while spooling). I bought an el Cheop line counter which works fine (except readings are in ft), and strip my old line with a drill attached to an old spool. The motor seems capable of spooling at 30lbs, but what I typically do is set the reel's drag for optimal working at strike, and use my gloved hands to maintain tension to where the drag is just short of slipping (this seems to have worked well for both mono and spectra). There prob is some degree of variation in lbs when spooling, but this method seems to give me a pretty high degree of consistency. I've noticed that the tension/friction I need to apply by hand while spooling varies considerably during the process based on the respective diameters of the parent and reel spool, and the angle the line is making from spool to spool (both of which are constantly changing). It seems like the expensive spooling machines with parent spool, adjustable breaking systems might be easier to use, but I'm not convinced they provide as much consistency with regards to actual line pressure on the spooling reel (due to the aforementioned changing variables). My hands do get sore/tired when spooling at higher pressures, especially with low stretch/dia spectras. Seems to be working fine for my needs though. And at $650 investment cost, I can't really complain. I was considering making a better line counter which rides in the parent spool, and maybe an adjustable breaking system with spring washers, and a (or duel) cork or HT lined pressure plates. I might have a machine shop make me a line stripper to fit the motor too. It's working fine for now though.
the winder i have can give me about 12 pounds of drag, and that appears to be enough to effectively wind on the spectra without having to worry about the spectra digging into the spool. it's been working pretty well.
Hi folks. I have been sitting around and thinking about the concept of heavy tension upon the spooling of a reel. I have to disagree with (gasp) Bryan and Alan. I guess I should say "respectfully" disagree. I agree that initially the line should be spooled with some tension, but it has been my experience that once the line has been run out, the tension is no longer there. i.e. when trolling line is run off the reel and there have been no hits the line is reeled in with just the tension of the drag from the line being in the water. That drag is not near the line winding tensions suggested. Also I usually run the line out with no end tackle while the boat is moving to get the kink out of the line. When the line is retrieved during this unkinking there is some tension, again not in the suggested tensions. I have not had Spectra dig in with the tension created by this process. So I can conclude that the tension created is no more than 10-15lbs and that should be all that's needed. Dominick
what i do with my winder is put the reel in low gear and set the winder in low as well. then crank down on the drag setting as much as possible so that the motor will stil turn the handle and wind the line. when the crank motor starts to slow down under the load, i back off the drag pressure on the bulk spool of line so that the reel handle continues to turn at a slow but deliberate rate. it's not perfect, but i know for sure i'm gettin more pressure then my local shop.
I do the same thing as Alan, but I usually assume that most 50, 80, and 130 class reals are likely to be fished at around 12-15lbs; 15-18; and 18-25lbs 'effective' drag at strike. I myself run 12-13lbs when trolling for everything but marlin, when marlin fishing I like running 18-20lbs at strike. These numbers are based on what I have found to be the best strike settings for consistent hook ups while trolling, rather then 1/3 actual breaking strength if line. I personally feel that many fish with drag settings too high (for most effective hook up ratios) at strike. A lower initial drag setting at strike allows enough give for the hook to slide into optimal position, as the fish turns, before driving the point home. I prefer even lighter settings still when live baiting. Jigging, and throwing top waters may be another story. It's true that, in practice, when trolling the top most used portion of the line is typically routinely spooled as much lower pressure settings, but I feel that problems can and will develop with the inner line on the spool if it was initially spooled under too small tension (ESP spectra). If anything the first line spooled should be under greater pressure then the outter line..never the other way around, or problems can develop. If you've ever experienced these problems when fighting a larger fish, under heavy pressure, on a freshly machine-spooled reel..you can understand Alan's desire to ensure proper pressure during spooling. Surge-ness deep due to poorly spooled line, ESP. deep in the spool when there is alot of line out and the gear is truly being worked can lead to disastrous results.
John
Both shops i use have tensioning devices.......if they didnt i wouldnt go there. If i do it at home i know its on tight as i have someone put on gloves then stick the spool in a towel wet packing the braid helps alot to
my 2 cents, when you put pressure while spooling you'll also have more line on your spool. :)
Spool capacity seems to increase by about 5-10% when spooling pressure is around 5-10% of line strength..stretch seems to be proportional to pressure in mono, though I would think it would be more non-linear (I.e. more stretch at first). The other thing I have wondered about is the effect of spooling stretched mono on it's longevity. While stripping line that had been previously spooled under pressure, I've noticed it appears more worn and brittle, as well as having twist/memory issues. I think it's best to try to find a happy medium when spooling mono.
keep forgetting about the details. i only put => 10lbs of tension with multifilament, with mono just enough using my thumb and index finger wrapped by a towel, i mean the mono...
Thanks for the info guys...this will be my first winding of JB spectra and I want to get it right...for what we encounter on the NW coast a topshot of 125 yds will be used 90% of the time...so the braid rarely gets used...but when it does I don't want it burying itself. I'm an old school dacron braid guy and my grandfather had cotton braid which had to be unspooled and dryed after the season....I'm just coming up to speed with the new 16 strand lines and their responses...this season will be interesting, to say the least...new rod, reel, line, leader...now if I could just focus close enough to see what I'm doing.
Thanks again...this site has given me the info to make some good decisions....
Check out tension mate. The guy that makes them is a friend of one of my fishing partners. Very simple and durable. I have used 2lb to 65 lb Spectra and spooled all reels without any problems
I have looked high and low for a "tension mate"....the .com is a dead end...fishhead specialist doesn't have any online...
Is there any other place to take a look or contact info in Au.?
There's such a wide gap between something reasonable and an Omega....and the only in between winder at 1600 is driven by a drill??....something with an even, adjustable tension
posting My first picks
I read in a post on this site that my method of winding on spectra was wrong. I ran it through a set of gloves or towel to get tension. The corect method is to put pressure on the spool. thought I could 'mcguyver it" :D
Half a packing cleat
230mm coach bolt
some square washers (just what i found first)
two nuts
Two minutes later i had a working prototype suffered a bit from start up so I added a peice of cardboard an d a rubbery sort of washer worked great ;D
(http://i1278.photobucket.com/albums/y510/jonurlich/Facebook/Mobile%20Uploads/10401446_1431519807120372_1008224248740686952_n.jpg) (http://s1278.photobucket.com/user/jonurlich/media/Facebook/Mobile%20Uploads/10401446_1431519807120372_1008224248740686952_n.jpg.html)(http://i1278.photobucket.com/albums/y510/jonurlich/Facebook/Mobile%20Uploads/10418890_1431519593787060_1698948054771923905_n.jpg) (http://s1278.photobucket.com/user/jonurlich/media/Facebook/Mobile%20Uploads/10418890_1431519593787060_1698948054771923905_n.jpg.html)
(http://i1278.photobucket.com/albums/y510/jonurlich/Facebook/Mobile%20Uploads/10494776_1431519703787049_6710647534900957084_n.jpg) (http://s1278.photobucket.com/user/jonurlich/media/Facebook/Mobile%20Uploads/10494776_1431519703787049_6710647534900957084_n.jpg.html)
Bit of fun on a friday night
cheers Jon
maybe you could glue some c/f to the metal plates
a spring each end
cheers
Bryan - Any updates with this project? I know its old, but just curious. Thanks.
Well, this is what we have done....We took a used line winder and Jim modified it...and it was still cheaper than building our own. So, my home built line winder project died.
Haha, oh well. Still got the same end result...Line on Reels.
Somehow I missed this thread. Jerry Brown says 10# is all you need when spooling Spectra and so far it works for me.
I found that unless you are winding professionally that the reel to reel method works great. I have a Penn 50tw that I use as a "slave" reel and wind line on to that using a moderate tension utilizing springs and Teflon washers on all thread stuck in a vice with the line spool. I then set the drag on the international to the desired resistance and then wind from the international on to the primary reel. It takes a little sweat and more than a few beers but it works great as you can take your time and level wind it perfectly..
Lee, I totally agree with you (and JB ;)) 10lbs is sufficient. Once you have taken the initial stretch out of spectra it has no more give. From my experiments, on my line winder, I found no difference (in spool capacity) when winding at 10 or 25lbs drag - except the motor did groan under the load ;D
Conchydong - I use to use your method, of a slave reel, it works and its cheap - but very hard work. Pro line winders are not available this side of the pond and shops do not spool the line correctly. So I built my own. If you want some ideas have a look here.
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=11452.msg110815#msg110815