I wanted to upgrade my 49 with a metal spool, but, when I found a 349 (not H) for much less than the cost of a new 49 aluminum spool, I jumped on it.
Externally it has very little pitting, except for the handle side outer beauty ring, which is badly pitted and cracked. It is still usable, though. Internally it is in very good shape with a steel main gear and the standard three thick fiber drag washers (not HT-100's). The main gear is definitely deep enough to convert to the 1+5 HT-100 drags, if I am able to get the extra keyed and eared metal washers. I ordered a 7-349 set of metal drag washers on ebay and they turned out to be too small. Their diameter is 1.106", so I don't know what they are for. The diameter of my 349 metal washers is 1.230"
Here are some outer diameters of the metal washers on other common Penn reels:
49 - 1.119
113H - 1.061
9/0 - 1.166
These are my measurements in inches. I mention this because, based on the drag washer size, the 349 Mariner seems to be a very capable reel.
I'm not concerned if I'm unable get some extra metal washers for the 1+5 drags, as I can do a 1+3 drag configuration with suitable HT-100's or SmoothDrags, instead. I plan to use it for light bottom fishing, anyway.
I noticed, though, that the gear ratio of my 349 is 3.2:1. MysticParts specs shows the 349 gear ratio is 2.3:1 and 349H is 3.25:1.
My question is: what reel do I have here, or is MysticParts specs incorrect?
George
"Edited as per Moderators to correct Scott's Bait & Tackle over to their new store name Mystic Reel Parts / www.mysticparts.com"
George, that's interesting on the ratio. If you determined the ratio by counting gear teeth, then your findings are correct. I found a couple of goobers in their data for other reels. Maybe you have the "H" model or a hybrid. Have you tried to get the drag washers (metal and HT-100) from PennParts? You could also try Mike's Reel Repair or Dave's Parts & Service in Marathon Florida. http://www.fishingreelparts.com/
Rob
Rob,
Yes, I determined the gear ratio by counting the teeth. Penn Parts doesn't have any Master Mariner drag washer parts, but I think Dawn at Smooth Drag does. I'll contact her.
I did some googling on the various Master Mariner gear ratios and one source said that the 349HC has black plates marked "349", two levers, a convertible drag, and a 3.25:1 ratio. I don't know how true this statement is, but it describes my reel to a "t". Can you imagine the confusion for some people who order parts, thinking they have a low-speed 349 and find out later their reel is the high-speed version?
Anyway, my reason for this post is to determine if there is an easy way to know which 349's selling on ebay are low-speed or high-speed. There may not be an easy answer, and many of the sellers won't know what they have, either.
George
QuoteI did some googling on the various Master Mariner gear ratios and one source said that the 349HC has black plates marked "349", two levers, a convertible drag, and a 3.25:1 ratio. I don't know how true this statement is, but it describes my reel to a "t". Can you imagine the confusion for some people who order parts, thinking they have a low-speed 349 and find out later their reel is the high-speed version?
George -
It sounds like you might have a reel that was made during a transition period between versions or a prototype run. I've seen it before from Penn, although only once. It can be very confusing for someone who doesn't know what they have and doesn't search for an answer like you have done. I wish I could be of more (some :-\) help. Akfish sees a lot of Mariners, maybe he'll chime in.
Good luck!
Rob
You got yourself a nice reel George. I think your reel was only in production for a couple of years, the standard with the 2.3:1 gear ratio was in production from 58 untill the 70's. the letter "C" stands for convertible star drag. I'm pretty sure that your information is correct, I believe that the only way you'll find out if it is a high speed would be from its box. You do not need to open the reel up to find out if it is a high speed model, you could count how many times the spool goes around with one revolution of the handle.
There were three versions of the 349: The 349 with only one eccentric lever and slow gears; the 349H with one eccentric lever and fast gears, and the 349HC with two eccentric levers and fast gears. I've seen both red and black 349s. The fast models are neat reels although very heavy given the cast spool, and almost impossible to find parts for. If you like this sort of reel, I'd recommend a newer 49 with an aluminum spool, a stainless steel gear sleeve, and either Newell cross posts or Penn 501 cross posts to make it more rigid.
Thank you, all, for your comments and advice.
I thought I was getting a low-speed 349 and was pleasantly surprised to find out that it is the high-speed version. I plan to install a 6-875 washer under the main gear and a stack of three 6-113h, all HT-100 washers, of course. This will give me the 1+3 thing, more than enough drag for my purposes. Nothing else needs to be done.
George
I received a package from Smooth Drag today. It included a set of thin Carbontex 113h drag washers and a set of 349h metal washers (Thank you, Dawn). Even though the 113h Carbontex outer diameter is slightly smaller that the 349h washers, the inner diameter is correct. I don't know of any other carbon fiber washer that will fit the 349h better than these.
I installed the 1+5 drag washer configuration in my 349h and the second eared metal washer sat slightly above the main gear. All of the 349h metal washers are thick. So, I replaced the three keyed washers with some thin 113h keyed metal washers. Out of the 349h metal washers I received from Dawn, I only needed and used the extra eared washer. Now I have a 349h that has 113h drags, and that ain't bad!
I think it is equivalent to a super narrowed 113h. It has the same drags, very similar gear ratio, and a slightly larger diameter. I know I'm being subjective, but this is my dream.
Why did I go to this trouble when there are better reels out there? And 49 Super Mariners and parts are much more readily available. Well, I've long been curious about the 349 series Master Mariners and now I have one with a 1+5 drag system for less than $40 total investment.
Now, if I can only find a nice looking right side beauty ring!
Regards, George
George, not being able to find parts is what makes that reel valuable. About that last eared washer, if it is slightly above the gear you could bend the ears down a little with pliers to make it catch the grove, it should work out just fine.
Quote from: Alto Mare on August 04, 2011, 01:14:08 AM
About that last eared washer, if it is slightly above the gear you could bend the ears down a little with pliers to make it catch the grove, it should work out just fine.
I thought of that, but the washer would still rub on the inside of the sideplate, and I don't want to use a dremel to provide the necessary clearance.
I didn't know you didn't have the clearance, I understand, I would do the same.
I was playing with my camera and my new-found ability to post pictures, so I decided to show you how I installed 113h drags in my 349h to give it the 1+5 configuration. After all, the 349h uses the 113h gear sleeve.
(http://i1162.photobucket.com/albums/q523/rumbum01/P1010300.jpg)
I used two 349h eared metal washers, three 113h thin keyed washers (key #86-970), five Carbontex thin 113h washers, and the additional small Carbontex washer that Dawn sent me to go under the gear.
(http://i1162.photobucket.com/albums/q523/rumbum01/P1010308.jpg)
If I used the traditional HT100 washer under the gear, it is too thick and would cause the gear to rub on the sideplate where noted. Since these sideplates are getting rare, I'm not willing to dremel it out for the necessary clearance. This is where the small thin Carbontex washer came in handy and gave me the necessary clearance.
(http://i1162.photobucket.com/albums/q523/rumbum01/P1010307.jpg)
Here is the final 113h Carbontex washer before the last 113h keyed washer is placed on top. Notice how the washer is slightly undersize, but fits properly on the gear sleeve - same with the 113h thin keyed washers.
In one of Alan's writings he suggested using the 113h HT100's in the 349h. That gave me the idea to carry it a step further and also use the 113h thin keyed washers so I can have a 1+5 drag. Thank you Alan. The 349h keyed washers are too thick to allow for a 1+5 stack.
George
Thanks to some information in this thread I pulled out the better of my 349s and checked the gear ratio, it looks like I have a red single lever 3.2:1 and not the 2.3:1 I thought it was. As soon as I finish my double dog 113H I'll have to start looking for the parts I need to get my old halibut reel back into shape.
you know, penn could make a mint by bringing back some of these old reels.
Quote from: alantani on February 01, 2012, 07:54:21 PM
you know, penn could make a mint by bringing back some of these old reels.
I wonder if Penn would sell their stamp dies and other tooling for reels they no longer being make?
Or we could ask Dom to sell us some, I'm sure he has one for everyone here ;).
Nice job George! My kind of guy. You know, I still use some of those with the steel spool and love them. Waight doesn't bother me much.
C'mon Keta, get your 349's in fighting shape. :)
I recently bought another 349. I was hoping it was in the slower 2.3:1 ratio so I could try out my drag mod on it, too. It turned out to be the faster ratio, darn it! Trying to get the correct gear ratio info from ebay sellers is next to impossible.
Thank you for the words of encouragement, Sal. It's good to see that there are many of us out here who appreciate and keep the old obsolescent Penns in fishing order.
In your original post you stated that through your calculations that your reels gear ratio was 3.2:1. I think it is the same as what Penn is considering the 3.25:1 . Im not sure how you measured, but your measurement versus what they claim is so close that it is nearly impossible to notice a difference so Penn may have just rounded it off to prevent confusion. Similarly if you converted this gear ratio into money we would be talking about $3.20 versus $3.25. These days a nickle is worthless :). Just my two cents :).
This was posted on Stripers by a chap named George (any relation George?), which may add to the discussion:
QuoteThe 149 (Mariner) came with a chrome-plated brass spool, which was changed to an aluminium spool (model 149L). The side plates have only the inside metal chrome-plated rings. Gear ratio is 2.1 to 1.
The 49 (Super Mariner) has the extra lever which removes the anti-reverse, allowing the reel to free spool with the handle engaged (same as the 140 Squidder). Penn called this the 'convertible star drag'. Both sides of the end plates have chrome-plated rings and the gear ratio is 3.5 to 1.
Both the 149 and the 49 use the 24-49 handle which is the longest conventional handle Penn used.
The 349 (Master Mariner) has both sides of the end plate bound with chrome-plated rings, with the inside ones also having rings at the top - to which you can attach a harness.
It uses a handle which as three different holes to vary the torque (part 24-349).
It does not have the lever to remove the anti-reverse.
The gear ratio is 2.3:1 on the older ones and 3.25:1 on the newer ones.
When 349s were made with the 2.3:1 gear ratio, a 349H was cataloged with the 3.25:1 gear ratio.
A 349HC was also cataloged with a 3.25:1 gear ratio and with the anti-reverse lever.
Both the 49 and the 149 were available with a plastic spool or with a chrome-plated brass spool (letter 'M' was added to the model number).
'L' on the model number is for the later black aluminium spool.
Information gleaned from Penn catalog 30B dated 1968.
Hope that's of some interest.
All the best, Justin
PS I'm mad keen on a 349H, so if one comes up, by all means get in touch. ;)
No Justin, that wasn't my post on Stripers. Good info, though.
A week or so ago, A chap was selling two NOS 349's with boxes on ebay for $110 each. Too steep for me, especially when I wouldn't fish with one for fear I would scratch it. They didn't last long. There are usually several listed on ebay. I bought mine cheap, but then they are working reels, not showpieces.
George
Cheers George.
Haven't yet summoned the courage to purchase on the-bay from New Zealand.
Looked longingly several times though. ;)
I agree re: US$110 - I like to fish 'em, too...
Might tap one of my Tani mates eventually to sort one and post it down... ;D
By the way, we have a site here that - from time to time - has good-quality Penns etc: www.trademe.co.nz/ (http://www.trademe.co.nz/)
If you spot something that piques your interest, I'm happy to sort and send it...
All the best, Justin
PS What's 'NOS'?
Quote from: redsetta on February 09, 2012, 06:07:06 AM
PS What's 'NOS'?
New - old stock.
BTW, thanks for the info on the "trademe" website. It's interesting to see what is available in other parts of the world.
G'day George,
Do you happen to know if Alan's S/S 113H gear sleeve will fit in a standard 349?
Thanks, Justin
Quote from: redsetta on February 15, 2012, 11:44:42 PM
G'day George,
Do you happen to know if Alan's S/S 113H gear sleeve will fit in a standard 349?
Thanks, Justin
The bridge and gear sleeves are the same part number for the 349, 349H, and 349HC. I fitted a stock brass 113H gear sleeve in my 349H and it works fine. I imagine Alan's S/S 113H will fit, as well.
Regards, George
Thanks George - much appreciated.
Sal,
You're one modest fellow... I've seen a taste of your amazing collection when you show us photos whether in tutorials, drag checking, or cabinet making ;)
...and I know that is just the tip of the iceberg!
You guys keep those mariners alive and kicking... and I'll keep the Senators going! ...I only have one 49 (mint) and one 349 (not in great shape)
Thanks
Dom